If Most of the FDR, WWII Generation Were Alive Today...

If Most of the FDR, WWII Generation Were Alive Today...

Bush and the fascists would not be in control of our government.

Those folks knew, and those still with us know, what fascism is. Our entire nation, except for some RW conservatives, fought with FDR against Imperial Japan, Mussolini, Hitler and the Nazis, etc. during WWII. These folks saw first hand the horrors that right wingers inflict upon people and nations once they seize control of a government.

There was always a Democratic majority in Congress when most of the FDR, WWII generation was still alive. That is because there was no way that the WWII generation was ever going to let fascists take over the government of the US. They knew a fascist when they saw one, and for generations, they vigilantly kept republicans from gaining control of the political processes of our nation.

But now that most of the WWII generation are no longer with us to keep the fascists at bay, fascism has once again reared its ugly head, and has taken hold right here in our own home - in America. Most of the voters of today were not alive during WWII, and therefore do not understand the monster of fascism that their parents, or grandarents, or great grandparents, or great-great grandparents fought against.

And unfortunately, many of the voters of today are unaware of this nation’s history of keeping right-wingers out of power. We have a republican, right-wing majority in both Houses of Congress for the first time since 1932.

Because there seems to be too few folks left now to remember what happens when right-wingers like Bush, his administration, and the current republican majority in Congress takes over, or most of these monsters would never have been voted into office.

And apparently, too few of us learned from our history, for we are repeating one of the greatest mistakes ever made.


An American soldier stands above the corpses of children that are to be buried in a mass grave dug by German civilians from the nearby town of Nordhausen. (April 14, 1945)


A photo of a U.S. soldier clinging to a fatally injured Iraqi child

A Memorial Day thank you to all the folks who fought to rid the world of fascism during WWII, both internationally and domestically. And to those folks that got stuck fighting in wars because they "do not decide when the country goes to war, but they suffer and sacrifice more than any of us."

& politics are the ones speaking the loudest. They also don't have to worry about loosing their jobs & careers. Harder to intimidate them.

We should all learn from them. They were amazing people.

even in the Bush-weighted Exit Poll.

It's people in the 30-50 range (I'm in that range) who showed the biggest support of Bush.

I guess too old to worry about being drafted and too young to get Social Security.

...understand that instead of always wanting to blame a region, an age range, or something else?

We're living in a DICTATORSHIP that controls every means necessary to STAY in control.

I've seen evidence that leads me to believe that they changed a few thousand votes in Ohio along with disenfranchising a few thousand black people. I haven't seen evidence that says that they stole enough votes nationwide to actually change the demographics.

Have you ever wondered why the exit poll group paid by the media was shut down during the 2000 election, and totally disbanded after the 2002 mid-terms when they reported 3-5% leads by a number of Dem candidates that lost by 5-10%?

Haven't you ever questioned why the electronic voting software is not allowed to be vetted by an independent 3rd-party examiner? Ever wonder why nobody has access to that software but the folks that designed and developed it?

Doesn't that raise any questions in your brain at all?

Proof? We won't get the proof until we get a chance to fully examine that software and what it may be doing to switch votes when no human is anywhere near it.

I do agree that we need a much more transparent voting process and that the current software and machines can be and possibly already have been used to tamper with elections. I don't agree that they were used on November 2nd to change millions and millions of votes from Kerry to Bush so much so that it would actually change the demographics that you suggest above. I think that if anything, they flopped a few thousand votes in Ohio and they knew that, that would be enough to keep King George in office without anybody raising any serious questions.

If they really had changed millions and millions of votes the other way, then they would've gone all out and given Bush a mandate with 55%+.

toward fascism by electing REAGAN???

Retirees vote in much greater numbers than the rest of us. The WWII generation has been determining politics in this country for the last 25 years, aided by that cohort born 1955-1970.

They don't really give a rip about fascism, about the destruction of rights, or about the dreadful legacy that their children and grandchildren will be left to pay off and clean up. They got TAX CUTS, and that's all that matters.

And yes, I talk to a lot of them. I'm just telling you what they say.

...he fought against fascism and he knows it when he sees it. He definitely sees it in the NeoCons.

Dad will also tell you that we're currently living in a dictatorship and speaks scornfully of anyone that doesn't understand that. Most of the WWII vets he talks to on a regular basis believe the same way that Dad does.

I don't know who the heck you calim to be talking with, but they sure don't sound like Dad or the people that think like him.

I know it isn't "PC" on this forum to point out the negatives of FDR but we DUers can't ignore the facts of history. Bush abused his power by using the chaos of 9-11 to enact the Patriot Act and wage the Iraq war among other things but one cannot ignore the acts of FDR.

While FDR implemented many of the programs we enjoy today, could you imagine if Bush tried to do any of the below:

FDR rounded up and imprisoned 120,000 people (most who were US citizens) based solely on their race. He made gold illegal to own and confiscated it from every American. He set up media censorship boards to control ALL mass media. Because of his popularity, during the war he had virtual control of the federal government, making him the closest thing to a dictator we ever had.

Bush is an awful president who has disappointed millions who voted for him and has broken many of his campaign promised. But please be careful when you compare him to FDR. I know a lot of people love FDR but he isn't the great man that some people make him out to be. I hope I don't upset anyone because I know that unpopular opinions sometimes aren't welcome.

was one of our greatest presidents and it doesn't upset me that a few (very few) don't think so.

I find it interesting that you go into detail on the FDR negatives
yet among your complaints about "awful" Bush is that he broke campaign promises. :eyes:

Edit to add: Among your complaints. Abuse of 9/11 to enact Patriot Act is noted.

And I hope you don't get spammed, because there's always hope we can win you back from the dark side. FDR did all these things, sure, but Saddam Hussein sure as hell ain't Hitler. Not even close. And you should put things in historical context before you generalize. We were also lynching African Americans back then. Women were to be seen and not heard. The third world were the "little brown and yellow people". Society as a whole has moved on from those times, and what was acceptable and maybe even right back then sure isn't now.

Hang around Singleterri. Listen. Learn.

He was in the 4th term!


Faced with the Great Depression and World War II, Franklin D. Roosevelt, nicknamed "FDR," guided America through its greatest domestic crisis, with the exception of the Civil War, and its greatest foreign crisis. His presidency -- which spanned twelve years -- was unparalleled, not only in length but in scope.

was knowing his limits and understanding how to use the incredible power that was given to him for the betterment of his people. FDR did have Eleanor Roosevelt who limited many of these excesses. Eleanor was against the internment of the Japanese. FDR did not go after the media that satirized him. There was adequate discussion of alternatives of domestic and foreign policy in the media. You just couldnt discuss certain aspects of the military operations of the war. I dont think he confiscated gold from all Americans. Wealthy ladies did not give up their jewelry.

There is no comparison whatsoever between Bush and FDR. Bush has implemented a worldwide gulag; FDR fought against tolitarianism and lack of due process (freedom of fear); Bush has used intimidation to force favorable stories in the press both through his own press conferences and through the right wing organizations. Stick on red nose on Cheney's wife and you get a letter from the White House attorney; go back and read the debates on FDR's initiatives from Social Security to the NRLB and you will see the difference between what gets covered in today's newspapers and yesterdays -- (freedom of speach). Remember the four freedoms.

FDR is the great leader of our times. No doubt about it. Go back and look at his record on balance. Social Security, WPA, Conservation Corps, an attempt at National Health Insurance. You will see the difference.

his terms of office. Yes, maybe FDR made some mistakes, but he had a lot to deal with. He arguably had more on his plate than any other President in history, and he had to figure out how to solve these problems. So naturally, sometimes he blew it.

But our country survived these nation threatening emergencies, namely the Great Depression (brought on by RW republicans) and WW II (brought on by RW fascists), and became a pretty prosperous nation, and the domestic legacy of the FDR administration, overall, is a pretty darn good one.

Bush, on the other hand, is pretty much the opposite of Roosevelt. Bush took a cushy budget surplus left to him by a Democratic administration and in an astoundingly short period of time, turned it into the largest budget deficit in history. Bush lied to the entire world in order to get us into an expensive, senseless, unjustifiable tragic war that has killed and maimed over 200,000 people. And the fascist republican party has stood behind him in every corrupt thing he has done to destroy our country.

Also, my OP did not espouse the merits of FDR, it espoused the merits and wisdom of soldiers and a generation that fought against right wingers and their fascism, and to salute them for wisely keeping the fascist republican party from gaining control of the United States government for so many years.
-------
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

....In early 1944, the New York Times asked Vice President Henry Wallace to, as Wallace noted, "write a piece answering the following questions: What is a fascist? How many fascists have we? How dangerous are they?"

Vice President Wallace's answer to those questions was published in The New York Times on April 9, 1944, at the height of the war against the Axis powers of Germany and Japan.

"The really dangerous American fascists," Wallace wrote, "are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power."
snip---
Nonetheless, at that time there were few corporate heads who had run for political office, and, in Wallace's view, most politicians still felt it was their obligation to represent We The People instead of corporate cartels. "American fascism will not be really dangerous," he added in the next paragraph, "until there is a purposeful coalition among the cartelists, the deliberate poisoners of public information..."

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0719-15.htm

here is another: Normal people can and will do terrible things if you ask them to the right way.

They'll happily turn their neighbors over to be killed if they think they are serving their country. All you need to do is appeal to their fear and hatred.

There was nothing fundamentally different about the Germans than there was with any other western nation. I've heard people talking about "turning the Middle East into a glass parking lot" and while that might be just a lot of hot air, I'm not sure how much of that is real. We're directly responsible for several thousand deaths and indirectly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and most people just don't care.

(back on the FDR thing)
I'm of the mind that you can praise a person for one thing while objecting to other things they've done. Hitler brought Germany out of their depression and revitalized the German economy before the war and genocide. I don't think what FDR did make the US any safer. The Japanese (and German) internment didn't really help that much and the price paid in liberty was too high. I do think his leadership in war and his commitment to serving the least among us marked one of the brightest moments in American history.

and what did they censor?

and what did they censor?

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

that get people upset. You take examples of a few faults of FDR and blow them out of proportion from way out of context. FDR was NOTHING like Bush.

FDR was faced with a Republican generated financial and economic collapse that could have destroyed our country. So, he took bold steps. Some were wrong, but by far most were correct. I have no problem with disallowing private ownership of gold bullion in that context. The country needed every ounce of gold to back the dollar.

FDR was faced with military opponents capable of conquering the world. This was a REAL WAR against adversaries who could have won. He had great power, but used it wisely in almost every case. Internment is the one--and almost only--black mark.

FDR was a truly GREAT president. By far the best of the 20th century. No other President has dealt with so severe a situation. Was he perfect? Of course not, but he was far more so than any other man in that job.

Your post is revisionist baloney.

...to violate individual rights. Both Lincoln and Wilson imprisoned people who were never charged with anything. Like FDR, they were willing to do anything to win to include the censorship of the media.

Starting with Eisehhower, and running through JFK, LBJ, and Nixon, the Vietnam War was largely reported the way that the government wanted it reported. Does that sound similar to the controls placed on the media during Desert Storm and the current twin fiascos in the Middle East?

An additional note about FDR was his decision to deliberately provoke the Japanese into attacking US assets. FDR's goal was the get the US into WWII to not only fight against Japan, but to also get into the war against Germany and Italy. Read "Day of Deceit" by Swinnett which discusses FDR's decision to implement Commander McCollum's 8-point memo, and our breaking of the Japanese military codes by 1940. We knew they were coming, and we knew where they were going to attack.

major issue that has stood the test of time since the 1930s: have RWers not been dead wrong on every major issue?

A good friend of my late father's for example. He is age 84 soon and he writes to the newspapers, etc. and he is NOT AFRAID to sign petitions!

If my father were still alive, a decorated war hero that served in the U.S. Marine Corps during WWII, he'd be angrier that shit, believe me. Hell, he'd probably be standing in front of his congressman's office demanding action, etc.

The children of this generation are far from dead. I walk my talk as I was taught to do.

I love my country and I am a proud American!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

:kick:

As a kid I fondly remember walking through the woods down a snowy trail on winter nights to visit him. We would drink whiskey by kerosene light and a wood stove, and he would tell me war stories, and stories about the Depression and the fascists, and what rural life was like in those times.

He's gone now, but boy howdy did he hate fascists, and I think if he were alive today he would be at the WH door with a torch and a pitchfork. As it is, he's got to be spinning in his grave.

the Pacific theater. The one who fought in the pacific died a few years back and he was a gentle kind hearted man and made his living as an artist. The other(uncle Rocky)is still very much alive and is a Baptist preacher who says that "Bush is a fascist if there ever was one"! Rocky fought from the beaches in France to the end of the war in Germany. He fought and froze in the battle of the bulge and he tells the damnedest war stories I've ever heard! Things like eating and sleeping in a barn filled with frozen German corpses stacked to the ceiling like cord wood.

Both of my uncles were democrats and both started to worry about the direction the country was headed under Reagan. I've talked to uncle Rocky for hours about politics and he is just as current on things as you or I. He is very upset about the neocons who have taken the power to choose our leaders away from the people in this country. He was Really pissed off about the things that were on TV and in the papers about the POW abuse. He says the same thing that I have thought all along, that "Bush uses GOD for a crutch!" Not every old time hell fire and brimstone Baptist preacher is a dumb ass. Not every Baptist minister worships Bushco!

A couple of peacable, all American, octogenarians who are livid, LIVID that this lying criminal fascist is furiously undoing the work that they sacrificed their youth to accomplish.

The very best gift that I could give them would be for them to see the tide turning back to an honest American republic before they go.

They know that a lot of people are working very hard to accomplish this, and there is some relief for them in that.

My neighbor's parents are very elderly, and they are highly upset with Bush, because of the similarities to Hitler. Therefore, I recommend threads like this one, and I try everyday to raise awareness to the fascism within this administration.
That is a good post, Zorra, thank you.

their children, the "Baby Boomers" have been, and misconceptions about both generations abound. As the Boomer child of Greatest Generation parents, I know how little any of us resemble our generational stereotypes; the same is true of my husband and his parents. Wearing the same styles and dancing to the same music in your teens and twenties doesn't make you think alike politically as adults.

To begin, let's remember the old axiom "All generalities are false, including this one."

Despite the example of Annabanana's angry octagenarian parents and other anecdotal evidence in this thread, the generation that was born after World War I and fought World War II do not all see this administration as the danger that we DUers do.

Being prematurely "retired" due to diability, I participate in several groups made up largely of women who have retired, with the age range being mostly upwards of 60. I'm one of the few young enough to have been born after WW II.

Most of the women in each group voted for Bush, including the two who are 88, which is the age my parents would be if they were still living. Some of them are not as sophisticated as others but not a one of them is uneducated or uninformed. One of the 88 year-olds still bowls in a league, is flying to Germany alone next month to meet a grandson there and then going on to Spain. And, although, she didn't go to college (few girls did in her day), she's very well-read and one of the most intelligent women I know. We lend each other books all the time; I only wish I could get her to read "Bush Dynasty" or "Against All Enemies." It truly grieves me to see an intelligent person support Bush.

I think that my parents, my father a veteran of the South Pacific, would oppose Bush's war-mongering just as they came to oppose Viet Nam. Yet my parents voted for Eisenhower both times and for Nixon in 1960 and 1968. Why? And why do I think they might have voted for Bush in 2000 if they'd alive to vote?

It may all go back to FDR. Roosevelt simply was not a hero to all Americans. More on this later. . .

he was hated by them. Eleanor was satirized in obscene terms.

On the other hand, when he died, the whole country stopped. We all know the pictures of his funeral train and how people lined the tracks weeping... well, maybe not the rich.

and lost it again in 1948. They also had Congress for two years in the 1950's. I think it was 1953-1955.