I was at the Take Back America Conference where he made those comments about Republicans not working. He is being misquoted by the media. The whole theme of that speech was about how Democrats won't help themselves or anybody else by just complaining about how corrupt Republicans are. They have to put out good ideas and do some real work to save the country.

Edwards is also being misrepresented by the media. He said he didn't agree with Dean. That's all. He never criticized Dean. They were both at the conference on that same day. They are good friends.

Please don't let this bullshit get us all at each others' throats. That's exactly what they want this story to do. Let's remember why we're all here and get to work, as Governor Dean said.

Dean says something and they totally lift it out of context and twist it about, and now they're doing it about what another Democrat said about Dean!

So what did Dean really say? And what did Edwards really say?

about how people in minority neighborhood had to wait 8 hours or more to vote because they didn't get enough machines. He said he's not surprised most of them didn't come, with work, kids, etc. Then he said something about how alot of Republicans might have time to do that, since many of them don't work an honest job, but not us normal people. It was a cheap shot, but clearly at the leadership and not the rank and file.

Edwards talked about how the poor are being left behind, and how talking about freedom isn't anything new in America. He said no party holds the monopoly on that.

I was so proud of both of them, and my country on that day for still having these leaders who want to fight for the little guy in it.

The Corporate News Media isn't helping when they start trying to stir this crap up.

...and a kick for the late crowd. :kick:

mad at Edwards..but I am pissed at biden. Go figure! And the ever invasive mainstream media.

We have to keep remembering that our MSM is not free or objective. I saw a news show tonight that showed Dean talking, but without the audio. The only voice heard was the newscaster giving the inaccurate paraphrased version of Dean's comments.

I told my daughter then to keep her ears open and be sure to notice that the news will not include the actual footage with audio because it would expose their lie.

"Please don't let this bullshit get us all at each others' throats. That's exactly what they want this story to do."

You're exactly right.

more brazen about what they do, too. The Pendulum is going to have to swing the other way one of these fine days!

I'm really sick and tired of things as they are!

won't let go of that "pendulum" until We The People wrest it from their hands.

it's basically about how the press were aiding and abetting the propaganda for Iraq invasion...

there was also a posting on the DU (can't find it now - sorry) - the poster mentioned he/she had a friend who worked for a news outlet and had not heard about the Downing Street memo - subsequently shrugged it off by saying "...they'll just spin it anyways..."

two thoughts:

1. if Gilbert and Sullivan were to write an operetta about the news coverage for Iraq - it wouldn't be called the Pirates of Penance - it would be the Parrots of Propaganda

2. regarding spin - yes, all political machines spin news to suit their agenda - but it's up to the press to recognize it as such and do their jobs, to dig deeper into the story and past the spin.

I should say most DUers knew how the media aided and abetted the propoganda War On Iraq machine but I'm grateful they have a doc or movie on it now. What is the name?

I just looked it up..http://www.wmdthefilm.com/mambo/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=31

I want to see that.."Weapons Of Mass Deception" Just like we called it!

When I was checking this out I saw a link for "WMD", the doc, by a ChristianCinama.com that supports the war on Iraq and "the troops".
All in the name of Christianity..I guess ol' Brad Maaske, a Central California businessman, never heard of .. "Thou shalt not kill" for oil and profit.

Instead our mainstream media aids and abetts "the spin" and should be indicted right along with the bush reich on crimes against humanity. And I have more than a few mediawhores in mind.

when I saw the war coverage begin. It was pure propaganda, pure spin, and it made me sick.

At least I got a better view of things from NPR.

Now, well, NPR is under attack but, thankfully, we've got AAR.

Whew.

Your daughter is lucky to have a father like you.

I just hate to see DU'ers infighting like this. It's beneath us, and not even warranted, given what Dean actually said.

...to be her mother. *grin/nudge*

:D

Agree with you completely about the infighting being beneath us, etc.

that comments like that are based more on ignorance than anything.

Actually that was the whole reason I made this thread, To kinda set the record straight.

Not calling them for feeding the MSM quotes that have allowed them to claim our party is in turmoil. Edwards' direct quote is that Dean doesn't speak for Democrats. Not just that he doesn't agree with him, which still would be problematic.

If you are incapable of predicting how all this would play out in the media, and that the net effect would be to undermine Dean, which it has, then you are in the ignorant position. Biden and Edwards, two press-savvy veterans of politics, sure as hell know how what they say will play out. Especially when they undercut their own party's leadership.

You really think they don't know what they're doing?

Why do people like Ed Gillespie or Ken Mehlman get to say whatever stupid bullshit they want, but when Howard Dean opens his mouth, you have people in HIS OWN PARTY ready to pile on?

... of Dean's statement to Take Back America currently on the c-span homepage.

http://www.c-span.org/

Why listen to the soundbyte and snippets - listen to the real thing ro yourself.

Some quotes:

"There are no such things are Red States, and Blue States - they're all Purple, some more purple than the others."

"We need to have a postive agenda, we can't just continue talking all the things that are wrong with George Bush's Presidency, even though I have a list of them here in front of me...we have to talk about what we're going to do differently."

"It wasn't enough for the President to try and wreck the public pension system (Social Security), it wasn't enough for him to turn Social Security over to the people that brought us Enron, as well as his good friends and politcal contributors. That wasn't enough. Now, we find out that under this President private pension plans have been grossly underfunded. What does this President want? Don't American deserve, after a long life of work, don't they deserve a retirement with dignity and security? I think that they do."

...

"The President wants to take away social security, and then he wants to going to away our private pension plans too? What does this President think ordinary Americans live on after they reach 65? We need a President who understands the needs of working people in this country and we will have one after 2008."

"However, I said that we were not simply going to criticize the President, we were going to make some positive suggestions as well. Here's what I think Democrats need to stand up for. We need to have pension portobility, so that as we move from job, to job, to job, the pensions follow us - they don't stay in the company.

That great Democrat Jim Jeffords, has been introducing this for 15 years. George Bush has had his chance to fix this problem, we need a new President and new congress that will fix the private pension plans.

We ought not to allow people like Ken Lay to loot the pension plans of American while their companies are going down. Pension plans ought not be controlled by companies, they ought to be controlled by the people that those pensions belong to, that's the working people of America.

Enron began around the time the President took office. 40,000 Americans lost their pensions. Another tens of thousands when, just last week, the courts took away United Airlines workers pensions. This is a serious problem, the President has had his time - he has done nothing. Let the Democrats try to fix the pension program, we have a positive plan for portability and for independant control outside these corporations who abuse the money. This is stealing to let pension program go down, that money does not belong - that money does not belong to companies that are bailing themselves out of bankruptcy, that money belongs to the people who they promised it too in their contract. We want these pension to be independantly run."

...

"They talk about the 'Culture of Life', what about the Culture of Corruption in Washington? We have the leader of the Republican Party, who the President has just endorsed as doing a fine job, the chairman of the Republican party has endorsed as doing a fine job -- (I actually think that's true, the Republican definition of a "fine job" is to be reprimanded three successive times in a row for ethics violations and have a fourth one - the republican definition of a "fine job" seems to be if your leader is under investigation and three of his cronies have just been indicted because they found that they took $800,000 of corporate money and put it into Texas campaigns , that's how the Republicans do business) they think it's "fine". Americans don't think it's fine. We need to get rid of the {i]Culture of Corruption{/i} and abuse of power in Washington.

And we will do that. We need to be the party of Reform. Campaign Finance and Election Reform. Real Campaign Finance reform. I used to say in the campaign, that if you want campaign finance reform don't wait until politicians do it - just go out and do it yourselves. Send us 25 bucks on the Internet. We need to train Americans to do that. If middle-class and working Americans are worried about loss of control because the Republican Party Control everything - now the courts, the Presidency, the House and the Senate - you can fix that. It costs you 25 bucks once in a while. Contribute to a candidate that you like over the Internet, we'll take back America. We'll {i]BUY back America from the Corporate Interests - $25 at a time - because there are a lot more of us, than there are of them.

And there was lots more...

vyan

:shrug:

You'd think we'd see this one coming by now.

Well, practice, practice.

to divide and conquer us..........we must never listen to msm interpretation of events of the day. NEVER

"you'd think we'd know that by now".

This is not the first time and it won't be the last. This is why I think he stays out of the national press.

Some old, some new...

Some maybe even blue.

But then, they always seem to.

...

Definition of the day.

Character Actor: A troll who impersonates an ordinary "personality" of the group that he is infiltrating (in this case, say, "Edwards supporter", "Dean supporter", etc). The goal of this type of trollery is to be accepted as one of the (sub)group, in order to exploit this advantage. -- And the better the acting, the harder the troll is to spot.

Of course, the troll is there to exploit, so it can't be all about just establishing bona fides. And one of the most effective times for exploitation is when there is some event that provides an opportunity to do so -- especially if such exploitation (seeking to further fracture lines, for example) seems "natural" from this "personality" type.

...

This sort of attack should be allowed to just roll off of our backs (publicly, at least).-- Because if a line of attack is seen to be working, it will be pursued. And then all those who have exhausted their limited supplies of discipline and self-control will be dragged in to join those who had no discipline and self-control to start with.

Let's try to play offense, not defense (and certainly not offense against each other). -- Let this damn thing wither and rot, like bait not taken, or foiled plot.

I've seen trolls rip more than one online community apart over the most inconsequential shit! Just remember the Benjamin Franklin cartoon: Divided we fall.

There's no need to be overtly paranoid about trolls on the net. However, if somebody posts something that bothers you or seems clearly intended as inflammatory, just take it with a grain of salt.
The best way to slay trolls is to just ignore 'em.

the trolls (in all cases). While this is the best strategy for most users, for the hunters, a troll is be hunted unto the death. It is prey.

And I find that being overtly paranoid can be amusing. -- Overly paranoid would be another matter.

I've know a few good troll-slayers in my day. Glad to hear we've got some guard dogs here, too.

:kick:

demonstrating the lying by the media to damage the Democrats. This is part of the propaganda machine too. It's intended to sow distrust, to divide, and to smear.

This needs some LIGHT shown on it. The propaganda smear needs to be exposed for what it is and the media venues that passed it on need to be held accountable. Lots and lots of LTTEs and much noise.

Well, pleased that you're setting the record straight, completely disgusted by our fascism-enabling media.

But if it lulls the righties, that's fine by me.

majority of Democrats -- and he certainly does not speak for me.
Watch the video on Crooks and Liars of Biden and you will see for
yourself.

:thumbsup:

When the "subject line" MUST be the title of the article.. The negative corporate crap becomes the title of the thread..

People who bother to join that thread can debunk as much as they like, but the subject line is still hanging out there on the front page of LBN like some stinky cheese.

This is a buzz-kill for LBN browsers looking for their daily dose of real news.

It's becoming increasingly clear to me that the Republicans and their allies in the media see the grass roots populist resurgence that Howard Dean represents as a big threat.

Add to that the pro-business Democrats who lost the death grip they had on the party when Dean was elected chair above thier rather ineffective protests and you see the man has enemies who will try to take him down so that they can continue their own rather ineffective efforts at doing whatever it is that they do.

Dean was painting Republican leaders as out of touch elitists who have no idea what it is like to be a low income person who works for a living. This sounds like a good line of attack to me and Dean was right to use it.

and bringing a little perspective to this. I was very upset over the weekend by the infighting on DU. We have to stick together. That doesn't mean (as some always want to say) that I think people shouldn't express their opinions, but I do think we could treat each other with a little more respect, especially when we disagree. Especially in this case -- with the MSM involved, we need to keep our heads cool and not let them spin stuff for us!

If we read these particular stories, we can surmise what happened (as you described), which is inconsistent with the headlines. And then, of course, some of our corporate media like to add a "discussion" and spin things in the worst way.

DUers, DON'T FALL FOR IT.

This is all I know he was said to have said:

"The chairman of the DNC is not the spokesman for the party," Edwards said. "He's a voice. I don't agree with it."

Has this changed any?

that his views are different from Dean's and reminded the questioner (correctly) of the role of the DNC. The OP pointed this out.

You didn't consider Terry McAuliffe to be THE spokesman for the party, did you? Or do you expect Democrats to lie and say they agree with each other 100% of the time?

Show Dean and Edwards with their arms around each other saying how wonderful it is that Democrats can disagree on specifics yet remain united in support of the U.S. Constitution and the common good of the American people. Tell America that 100% agreement is not only an impossible goal, but a dangerous and deadly one.

Let everyone know that dissent within party ranks is as patriotic as dissent without. THAT is a position of strength that the Republicans cannot hope to duplicate.

No need to go off.

Was he misquoted? If he was misquoted, has he clarified? If he was not misquoted, no lasting problem for me, Edwards is entitled to his opinion and so is Biden. It might have been nice, and certainly smarter, if they had not played into the hands of media whores, but I would never say individual Dems have no right to say what they believe.

constitute "criticism" or otherwise were inaccurate/problematic, given that I perceived the OP had addressed your question.

I don't see how the quoted statements constitute "playing into the hands of the media", either. I think some DUers are falling into the RW journalist spin-trap and blaming the wrong parties for the problem.

.. is clearly guilty of what all of you here are whining about. He called out another Dem BY NAME and criticized his stance.

Every time Dean is the slightest bit impolitic in his statements, everyone jumps all over him, especially the whore media. Why should Edwards be immune?

He could have just as easily said "Dean is only one spokeman for the party, and on this point I disagree with him". Problem solved. But that is apparently not what he said.

How is it different from your third paragraph (other than hair-splitting)?

Are you arguing that two wrongs make a right in your second paragraph?

Please don't be a victim of the corporate media's game of stirring the pot and trying to make Dems look bad. Both Dean and Edwards expressed themselves and deserve our support.

You are not putting the quote in context and you are LEAVING HALF OF IT OUT!

Edwards also disagreed with recent comments by Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, who said Thursday that a lot of Republicans "have never made an honest living in their lives."

"The chairman of the DNC is not the spokesman for the party. He's a voice. I don't agree with it," Edwards said.

CLEARLY, the Senator stated he did not agree with the recent comment, "a lot of Republicans 'have never made an honest living in their lives." Senator Edwards did not "bash" or "diss" Dean.

Now, why on earth, would Senator Edwards jump on the bandwagon of alienating prospective VOTERS? Should he have LIED and insulted voters? Or was it honorable for him to issue an HONEST statement?

Dean, himself, later CLARIFIED and CORRECTED himself by stating, "I SHOULD have said leaders. " Because Dean realized it is NOT WISE TO INSULT VOTERS.

I commend Dean for correcting his mistake.

... did someone ASK Mr. Edwards his opinion of this comment by Dean?


If he was asked, then I consider his response reasonable, and I stand corrected. If not, I don't.

at the Jackson Dinner for the TN Democratic Party. I doubt he had heard Dean correction the night before on Blitzer.

Edwards was honest. He stated, he did not agree with that one statement.

It would be suicidal for Dem leaders to start insulting voters. Dean obviously realized this, thus he corrected his statement.

... I apologize for commenting on an event that I did not really fully understand. I suppose that is what I get for reading a biased post and taking it at face value.

If he was asked a direct question then he certainly had every right to respond, and I would have liked it if he put it bettter, but all told I cannot fault him for what he said - he was being honest, not divisive.

I'll be more careful to keep my trap shut until I know the context next time. :(

Edwards and Dean are TRUE BLUE DEMOCRATS!

BOTH are out there FIGHTING FOR US! Let's have some dignity and show some respect and gratitude.

Have you kept up with their schedules? They both have been ALL OVER THE NATION fighting for our party. They have appeared together at events and will be appearing at a fundraiser for the DNC TOGETHER next week.

There are some Democrats I would not want to see run again and Kerry, Edwards and Biden are three of them, as is Wesley Clark. But I would vote for them in a general election, for sure if they made it that far. But no one deserves a free pass on anything. That's not our nature, that's what Republicans do.

Isn't awful when the truth gets in the way of a good rant?

But, there are problems here. First, the Edwards quote was direct, not paraphrased. And it was an AP interview. No way in hell you know what was said. They gave full quotes.

Second, if Dean was misquoted, Edwards and Biden should have said he was, rather than say they disagree with him.

The dots don't connect.

DEMAND a correction of the representation? I have yet to see one Dem step forward and pitch a regular hissy fit over how they or the party are being represented in the media. Now that would be something.

I'm proud of both Dean and Edwards. I felt such a sense of hope watching both of their speeches. I hadn't felt that way since the election. Day in and day out, we receive such depressing news but their speeches were forward looking and uplifting.

We ARE a strong party and WILL win back some Senate seats and take back the White House in 2008. Check out Edwards' and Dean's speeches here: http://www.dembloggers.com/main/5

Bush and his cronies are going down!

http://www.dembloggers.com/
President's Approval Down Even More
By Brian Hopkins
Posted on Mon Jun 6th, 2005 at 07:58:46 AM EST

A new poll released by Rasmussen shows that President Bush is down even more. Looks like those words "Lame Duck" may be coming true.

Forty-seven percent (47%) of American adults approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President. Fifty-two percent (52%) disapprove of the President's performance.
Today's reading is the first time in a week that the President's Approval Rating has dipped below the 50% mark. Over the past two weeks, the ratings for President Bush have been at 50% on five days, above that level five times, and below it four times.

It remains to be seen whether today's drop reflects a lasting change or is merely statistical noise.

Fifty-one percent (51%) of men give the President's performance their Approval along with 44% of women. He also earns Approval from 56% of Investors and 41% of non-Investors.


GO DEMOCRATS! :patriot:

We need to wise up to their tricks.

:hi:

they sure as hell don't want to discuss the truth.