Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

National Healthcare will Soon Be a Reality

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:18 AM
Original message
National Healthcare will Soon Be a Reality
I predict that when the Fortune 500 companies start to drop healthcare and reduce the amount they pay to the insurance vampires that we will see the birth of National Healthcare.

You see this is my logic... When companies drop healthcare from their payroll offering then it will be up the individuals to pay for it out of pocket. With premiums ranging from $15K-$25K for a family of four to pay for healthcare...the vast majority of US citizens will find themselves uninsured and those "healthcare savings accounts" will be a mere bandaid.

The Insurers will freak out they will be desparate as their cash flow disappears..and they will petition for a national healthcare system...they will be the ones to partition the country into regions and they will out maneuver one another until they each have a piece ....This is very similar to how Medicaid is handled...

The very ones lobbying against it now will be the first ones to be on board to help the government manage the new system.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know if the insurers would be the ones pushing for a
national system.
The doctors might as uninsured do not visit the doctor until they are really sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The AMA was completely against Medicaid when it came out
and then they changed their tune.

I predict that about 4-6 major insurance companies will be the "contractors" that handle the National Healthcare system for the US government. That will guarantee them payment and it will make their business more stable...they won't be cutting one another's throats for company contracts.

It will also mean a savings in HR and payroll costs for companies as well. One simple US tax to replace all the red tape...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. If national healthcare is contracted out to private firms...
those firms will be more concerned with their bottom line than with the public good. Hence you'd still see the companies bullying patients. Furthermore you'd still see the endless trails of redtape that don't occur in the much more efficient Canadian and European systems where the government's health insurance plan is administered in house.

The only reason you'd want private insurance companies involved in a national plan would be to avoid their political opposition. Having only 4-6 companies delivering basic coverage would do nothing to court the hundreds of firms that would be left out and hence still oppose the plan. So what would be the point.

While there is growing public pressure for a national health care plan, two conditions are necessary for such a plan to ever come to life:

1. Democrat in the White House with a Democratic House and Senate. We know damn well that any plan with the GOP's fingers on it will put monied interests first and the public good last.

2. The Democrats drawing up a plan are completely free of any influence by insurance companies. So long as we try to contort our policy to appease these firms, we fall short of the target of providing the best possible coverage for all Americans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. A few weeks back, the CEO of Aetna came out for it
Not a 100% national health care endorsement, but he backed some sort of government plan to ensure that the uninsured are taken care of (of course, he probably meant taken care of by Aetna...) it's a start.

Remember, Bill Clinton's first attempt to appoint an attorney general was Zoe Baird, the then lead counsel at Aetna. I always look back and wonder if Nannygate hadn't of happened to her, would she have been able to line up some insurance companies behind Hillary's plan because she was from the industry?





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Lack of national health care stunts business growth
I know many people who would take a stab at starting a new business, but they don't because they cannot leave their family uninsured while they get the ball rolling. I don't know why Democrats don't use this arguement cause it's true ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. This is the best argument I've ever heard. Thanks. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. You are right - this is a great argument
I have made this many times. (see my post below)

Don't you think companies like GM and UTC would love to move their operations back from Canada into the US? Just think of the public relations! The boards of directors of both companies would probably be carried on the shoulders of jubilant works from Canada to Detroit or to Connecticut.

A good point to make if you ever write a LTTE on this. Last year, 2004, France drew more foreign investment than the United States, despite the US having a much bigger economy overall and the dollar being weak. The reason? France has one of the top national health care plans in the world, while the US is #37. Because of the national health care in France, it is still cheaper do to business there. (of course, both countries still lagged China, a country with no national health care...)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I think that would be good to point out too
in the argument. Imagine all the people who would soon have jobs because of that. The economy would surplus again. I would love that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wallwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Good point, but easy to undermine:
The healthcare industry is gigantic and powerful. They will distort or discredit any argument, however legitimate, that undermines their considerable economic interests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. the top health insurers are small compared to GM & Ford
the largest corporations, like Wal-Mart ($288 billion); ExxonMobil ($270 billion); GM, Ford, General Electric, ChevronTexaco, CitiGroup, etc. are far larger than any of the top health insurers like United Health, Wellpoint/Anthem, Aetna, Cigna, etc.

Heck, ExxonMobil had more NET profit last year than most of them had in total revenue.

The pharmaceuticals are the biggest & strongest lobby out there, and they likely oppose national health care, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wallwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Maybe so, but when I see huge amounts of TV advertising
for health insurance, I just wonder what would happen if they felt that an actual propoaganda campaign were necessary. This is just specualtion, but I imagine that they would be difficult to combat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Interesting
Maybe because I live in Connecticut near Hartford (the insurance capital of the world), but I rarely notice ads for health insurance. I regularly see ads for various prescription drugs like Levitra, Cialis, etc. And, I do see ads for Life Insurance like Pacific Life & MassMutual's Oppenheimer Funds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. And contributes to outsourcing
We should take an economic approach. Those who will be swayed by the emotional fairness and caring for people approach are already on board. We have to win enough of the rest by convincing them of the economic sense of universal health care, and that it won't mean a trip to the welfare office to get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is the ONE issue where business & citizens interests meet.
With people pressure AND corporate pressure, we can DO THIS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. GM plant closings and health care
I heard a story on NPR about GM closing plants in the next few years. The thing that stuck out to me was when they said that GM would be negotiating health care costs with labor unions and that because GM provides health insurance to its employees it adds $1,500 to the price of each vehicle they make.

Why don't we have universal health care in this country? It seems that businesses would be all for this because they would not have to provide health care to their employees. They would be able to hire more people and pay better wages.

Howard Dean said that we are the only industrialized country without a universal health care system. If Democrats frame the issue in a way that benefits business then something might change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Big business loves national health care - in Canada
GM has major operations in Canada. Why is that? Not because the average wages are a bit lower... it's because they don't have to pay employee health insurance and that adds a huge savings on cars made in Canada.

United Technologies (parent company of Otis (elevators); Carrier (air conditioners); Sikorsky (helicopters) and others) also has major operations in Canada for the same reason.

In fact, both GM and UTC lobbied the Canadian government to strengthen their national health care system!

Now, don't you think it would be a HUGE public relations coup for GM if they were able to move jobs from Canada back into the US?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paula777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. You are right, there will be national healthcare soon. IN IRAQ
not the USA
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. You make some good points
I think by 2008 people will be ready for national health care and it could be a big part of the debates. My state a lone is having a lot of problems with it's health care problems and not having health care is expensive. People are losing their jobs and with their jobs comes benefits which includes health care. With people low on cash they can't afford to pay full prices of care. Hopefully either republican or democratic it'll happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. If it's left up to the NeoCons, there won't be ANY healthcare....
...and the corporations won't be jumping up anytime soon to champion ANY healthcare program.

Ordinary people are trying to hold on to their jobs these days even if health/medical insurance isn't offered. And people are getting increasingly more agitated about the longevity of their jobs.

Insurance companies will continue to insure individuals and/or families that can afford the premiums, primarily because they will consider those people to be good financial risks to insure. At the same time, the insurance companies are cutting lower and middle income individuals and families from their rosters as fast as they can because they are most likely to lapse their coverage. They are also beginning to look hard at the financial standing of people applying for health insurance because they want long-term clients who will be able to pay their premiums.

National healthcare program. Not very likely, IMHO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC