Terri Schiavo: Still causing trouble from beyond the grave...

Okay, it's really not Terri Schiavo's fault since she's dead and all, but even though she's now literally dead (instead of just figurtively) she is still making the news.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8299372/



TAMPA, Fla. - The burial of Terri Schiavo’s cremated remains didn’t bring an end to the acrimony between her husband and her family.

Michael Schiavo angered his late wife’s family Monday by not notifying them about the burial beforehand and by inscribing on her bronze grave marker the words “I kept my promise.”

Michael Schiavo — who said he promised his wife he would not keep her alive artificially — also listed Feb. 25, 1990, as the date his wife “Departed this Earth.”

Her mother will never accept this loss, and no matter what Michael Schiavo does, she will always blame him.

I appreciate the concerns Michael Schiavo must have had about the funeral. I think he was wise to not announce the funeral too far in advance and to give misdirection as to where her remains would be interred.

I thought it was the loss of a portion of the $$$ settlement that she could not accept.

Michael welshed on promises to pay his in-laws back for the years that Michael and Terri had lived in the Schindler home after her collapse. The Schindlers were also putting money into her care and helping with her care all those years.

Michael got less money than he'd hoped in the suits so he decided he wouldn't share with those who'd helped him for years. Later, he "remembered" that she had said not to let her live like this. It took him YEARS to "remember" an important detail like that.

It took years of atttempted therapy before determining it was hopeless.

After every effort was made and the physicians determined it was hopeless Michael had to carry through on her wishes to not be left this way.

If he announced at the beginning of the ordeal what her wishes were, then they would have accused him of doing something to her.
AFTER therapy showed that it wasn't going to work, THEN he shared what she said.
That is how it happens in most cases. Rarely are those the first things anyone says.

Why does anyone still support these scam artists?

before he got the settlement, they loved him. after, not so much.

They think the Schindlers are the victims because so many Christian "leaders" were on their side. Even Jesse Jackson.

on that note, I'll just say :hi: and exit..........

...rather some 'concern' over her best interests, to put him through all this hell...at least somebody acknowledges the Schindler's motives weren't all that pure

When I read in a Florida paper that the mother would deny her daughters wishes even if she had a will that's when I knew she didn't really care. It also even more confirmed to me that when Randall Terry jumped on the band wagon as a spiritual advisor and the mother sold their mailing list to rightwing "pro-life" groups and merchandise of her from tshirts to video's. The parents would've had more credit to me if they told Frist and DeLay to buzz off and let them be in peace and deal with this in private.

no matter how many times the facts are posted, you insist on repeating something that is not true.

should you end up in a PVS we will all remember that you apparently want to have your unthinking, unseeing, unhearing, untalking and unfeeling body kept alive indefinitely and to be a burden and constant source of grief to everybody. apparently knowing that ones spouse would not want to be kept alive artificially in a vegetative state is unusual and "suspicious" and evidence of something selfish and sinister.

I wonder why they're so angry. :shrug: They're just blood thirsty I think. Very nice indeed. Sad really. :(

Why should he tell them ? So they can bring their whole dog and pony circus with them ?
Would you trust them to show restraint and respect ?
I wouldn't, not with their track record.

********************
Michael Schiavo - who said he promised his wife he would not keep her alive artificially - also listed Feb. 25, 1990, as the date his wife "Departed this Earth."

On that date, Schiavo collapsed and fell into what most doctors said was an irreversible vegetative state.

Schiavo actually died March 31, nearly two weeks after her feeding tube was removed by court order. The grave marker lists that date as when Schiavo was "at peace."

David Gibbs, an attorney for the woman's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, decried the inscriptions on the marker. "Obviously, that's a real shot and another unkind act toward a grieving mom and dad," Gibbs said.
*********************

"Unkind act"? "Real shot"?

Compared to the stunts her parents pulled, he's a bloody saint.

If this wasn't Schiavo, most people would think it was a very loving statement from a husband to a wife.

I started out on their side, until I realized how rigged that video was. It really did look like she was responding to her mother's presence.

I still had sympathy for them, until they got Randall Terry involved. Once FOX/Hannity started the death watch 2005, which quickly turned into the papal death watch, I was just irritated with all of them.

to save the life of their child. It's a normal response. It's also normal for family members in such situations to deny how badly damaged their child is.

These parents, having lost their child nearly a decade and a half previously, slandered their son-in-law and used their child as a symbol to advance whatever causes would give them publicity. And that is NOT a normal response.

would include grieving and suffering, but also accepting the medical facts.

Terri's parents admitted they wouuld deny her wishes even if they KNEW she didn't want to be kept on life support.

THAT is not normal.

She had half a brain of a normal one, she was blind and she couldn't do anything. Look at the facts from her doctors who know what they're doing. It's still between a husband and a wife.

I'm not sure what they would put on it---

"We wish you were a vegetable still"

"May the governor get your 'husband'"

"Too bad you are in hell for wanting your tube removed"

"Frist in 2008"

"Nobody leaves until Dad says they can leave"

instead of the date she collapsed. I don't think they'd have gone along with "Beloved Wife" either. That and "I kept my promise" were just intended to add to the parents' pain and grief, Michael's last digs at them. It's an extension of his refusal to allow them or her brother to see Terri on the final day of her life, when it was clear she was dying.

Everyone knows on their wedding day that one of them will bury the other but no parent expects to bury a child. And any good parent fights to save a child, even in situations where others believe the child would be better off dead.

was negated when they hired Randall Terry.

They would have been better off if they had just hired a hit man.

Any right they had to see her on her last day was negated when they invited the entire world to witness her death and the spectacle that followed.

They treated her like a religious football and they have only themselves to blame.

If it were your child, you just might accept Randall Terry's help, too.

The Schindlers are Catholics so they weren't predisposed to hate pro-lifers.

BTW, DU has IGNORED the disability rights activists who protested against what was done to Terri Schiavo. Many of them are pro-choice on abortion and not religious but opposed to killing the disabled, even the severaly disabled like Terri was.

Terri was brain dead.
There is a huge difference.

mass isn't the standard for brain death?

PVS.

:rofl:

She was gone. She was not "disabled", she was not going to "recover" (Frist) and she was most certainly not "chipper" (Randall Terry)

Enough, already. Find someone else to be the unwilling torch-bearer for letting the church and "pro-life" people like Jeb Bush make our private decisions for us.

See http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/050404/4science.htm for more information.

the agenda of church and state control over people's bodies.

I think the question is supposed to be, "Was there ever a flat EEG performed by Bill Frist, and authenticated in front of a Notary Public by Jeb Bush and Tom DeLay?"

Huh? Answer me that, you heartless, wanton euthanizer of the helpless!

And you know what? There was no need to go on Sean Hannity and call an innocent person a wife beating murderer.

I have no idea why the opinions of disability rights activists on Terri Schiavo should have any more weight than any other group. It would be just as accurate to say that DU ignored the animal rights activists and the abstinence activists who protested Terri Schiavo's right to die.

they would get the %&*^)($@ out of the way on stem cell research.

It's not about helping, or compassion, or any of that- it's about control, and taking autonomy for our own physical beings away from ourselves-- and delivering it to "God", or at least his special friends here on Earth, in and out of government.

I 100% agreed. They are against helping the disabled unless it's for their cause and to make them look good. :mad:

body.

The right is opposed to te idea that you own your own body and can choose for yourself.

The corporate right is opposed to it because you are competing with them for a resource (your body).

The religious right is opposed to it because they think their god owns your body.

I think the marker was wonderfully worded. "I kept my promise." Beautiful. O8) :cry:

And if MY parents showed that much disrespect for me AND my husband, I wouldn't want them anywhere near me.

Michael Schiavo and his family have to fear for their lives now because of those despicable vultures that dare to call themselves "caring parents".

Disability my ass.
You might as well advocate keeping amputated limbs alive.

same way if I were cursed with these parents and in that situation.

And they would still be crazy and evil, and I would expect you to stop me.

And after a while, I wouldn't be grieving anymore, and I would simply be crazy and evil, and I would expect you to restrain me somehow.

Grief isn't a carte blanche to hurt people. Just saying.

but the Schindler's are not the only people to ever lose a child...everyday, all over the world it happens...and the vast, overwhelming majority of these unfortunate people manage to keep their children's life and death from becoming an obscene spectacle...

While that debacle was going on a mother in Texas lost her little baby boy and a wife lost her husband because they couldn't pay the bills. :mad: Where were the "pro-life" people for them?! Neither of them wanted to lose their child/spouse either!

He suffered massive head trauma from being hit by a pickup-truck drivin' yahoo while on his bicycle. He was brain dead- there was no chance of recovery, the situation was similar to the schiavo situation in many ways.. his eyes were open, his body was capable of spontaneous autonomic reflexive movement... but he was not "in there". He was gone. Everything that he was, was no longer inside that body. I know, I saw.

His parents were devastated- about as devastated as anyone I've ever seen, ever, for any reason. And understandably so.

They would have done anything for the reality not to have been that their son was gone- but he was, and they understood and accepted the medical information.. and they managed to make one of the bravest decisions I've EVER seen anyone make, namely to take him off life support and donate his organs, thus enabling several other people to have life. THAT is bravery.

Hawking their story to extremists and carnival barkers sixteen years after the fact, floating ludicrous and slanderous accusations against people like Michael, and allowing the worst sort of political opportunists (a la Terry, or Tom DeLay) to hover over their daughter's body like vultures-- I certainly understand that the Schiavos suffered a terrible loss, and I sympathize... but I do not think they displayed anything resembling a profile in courage.

displayed true love for their son.
They made a brave, noble and humane decision in the face of despair.

How dare anyone compare what the Schindlers did to how your friend's family allowed their child to die with dignity?

There is no comparison.

I've seen many situations where the parent put the best interest of the child ahead of their own need to have the physical presence of the child. Those are "good" parents.
This was an abnormal situation where the parents USED their child for monetary gain and fame.
The entire parental sideshow was way out of line.
Her parents DID see her on her final day of life. However, not at the same time he did. THEY created that situation by their many lawsuits and threats against him and have nobody to blame but themselves for not being allowed to be at her side when Terri Schiavo finally passed.
You make entirely too many assumptions about a marriage and relationship you know nothing about except what the Schindlers and their merry band of thieves have indicated in their press releases.
I think the sentiment "I kept my promise" was his words to Terri about how hard he had to fight to do so.
Many people of lesser strength would have given in long ago to save themselves the hell. He honored her wishes at insurmountable odds.

believed their child to be alive but went along with someone else's plan to starve and dehydrate the child until s/he died?

I have seen many parents almost destroyed by grief over the death of a child. To have that death orchestrated while you are powerless to stop it is enough to drive anyone over the edge.

The groupthink at DU about this is most disappointing. In reality, Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers are all human beings and thus likely have both good and bad qualities. But most DUers insist on portraying Michael as hero and loving husband and the Schindlers as villains. Terri herself was talked about in disgusting terms while she was alive, with DUers insisting she was "already dead," "has no brain," etc. It's a very peculiar way for LIBERALS to behave.

their child's wishes even if they KNEW she wanted life support terminated.

I have not seen a case like this in which parents admit they would amputate all their child's limbs and approve any surgery to keep their child's body alive.

Nope, I haven't see a case like this.

have to make these devastating decisions.
Parent's who truly LOVE their children do not want them to suffer.
With that being said--I think it is more "peculiar" for a Liberal to want to take away the legal choice of the legal guardian. Our party is very much about choice--do you not agree?
If you remember--the CT's showed her cerebral cortex filled with spinal fluid with the brain matter gone. In essence, her brain had died from lack of bloodflow.
Over time, it was replaced with spinal fluid.
Terri Schiavo was NOT disrespected on this board. You need to get your facts straight.

Her parents fought for the right to carry out her wishes all the way to the Supreme Court. Not every parent lives in denial. Not every parent thinks that their entitled to play god. Some...probably most...are willing to face facts and do what they know/believe their child would want. The Schindlers couldn't/wouldn't face the facts in front of them. Its sad. But they have lost my sympathy by making this all about them, not about their daughter.

onenote

for putting up with people like that to respect her wishes. It also is romantic and shows how much he really loved her. A woman could be so lucky to find someone like that who has to put up with parents like that.

Terri's brother was not denied visitation, nor were her parents.

Her brother was removed from the room wheh he caused a scene.

Terri and Michael had an extraordinary journey - he's entitled to note this.

...that Terri wasn't married to Michael Schiavo, that simply isn't the fact. And after they way they treated him the sole designation of "Beloved Wife" is the mildest thing he could have done. Michel Schiavo must be a saint to put up with being harassed and slandered at every turn by these people.

I've just got limits to my sympathies. I understand their grief, but grief neither justifies nor explains what they are doing. It's all negative--against Michael, mostly.

And that's why I ask for what the Shindlers would want on the stone. Any expression consistent with being a dutiful husband would be hated and reviled, and considered "digs" by Michael. They want a guilty plea engraved.
In the end, there's only so much one can do to accomodate the Shindlers. I pretty much reached the end of my rope months ago. Waiving their grief as justification gets nothing from me, not
now, not now when their daughter has been dead for months, the autopsy has come out, and they continue to attack, now shifting focus from whether Terri was in PSV to whether Michael killed her.

And the amazing statement that any good parent would do the same is simply not true. The fact is that feeding tubes are removed all the time, by parents---and to call them all "not good" is the sort of slander that the Shindlers make. I'm not going to ask you if YOU are in mourning over a recent death. It doesn't make that much of a difference to me. Stop saying that sort of shit, because the people who made the decision are in mourning too and deserve some respect for hard choices made out of love for their children. More respect than the Shindler's blind striking out at everyone deserves.

I know no parent wants to bury a child, but in this case, the child was dead and burial was pretty much the only decent way of handling the remains. There wasn't anything to save. Because their was nothing to save, the Shindlers have decided to make ruining other lives their next big priority. They might get invited to more Schiavo family functions if they stopped.

but I suppose that might be a bit over the top.

your posts for sometime and this subject and no one is changing any minds. There were a bunch of people who were shouted down during this discussion. Just agree to disagree.

"It's an extension of his refusal to allow them or her brother to see Terri on the final day of her life, when it was clear she was dying."

...you DO know that don't you...her brother and sister were with her up until five minutes before her death...if you've been following this, you couldn't possibly be unaware of it...

I understand that people can very legitimately have differing points of view but the differing sets of facts really, really bug me...if you have to have lies to support your outrage, you're not being honest about what you're really angry about...you are predisposed to take a side and try to build the facts around your biases...sort of like WMD's and mushroom clouds.

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You can't save a child if they're already dead and doctors who are specifically specalists in this area said there was NO WAY she would EVER recover! Why not let her rest in peace? It's between a HUSBAND AND WIFE! What about the Schindlers and what they did to him and his family? Death threats and slandering him with false claims?! They did get to see her before she died. Did you keep up with this story or are you reapting rightwing talking points?!

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The bush* family is below bottom dwellers. Pond scum.

The whole world now knows definitively that Terri was never going to stand up and dance the Can Can. Jeb looks like a total whacko now.

are the lowest scum. Is that a surprise?

gloating over the Schindlers' grief while dancing with Michael on Terri's grave but I've got errands to run and am now going offline for a few hours.

I must say that threads like this make me despair for the future of liberalism. Where are your hearts? Terri Schiavo was a living human being sentenced to death on the basis of testimony from a husband now in love with another woman. The case smells.

Only a few disabled DUers are able to see that this was a disability rights/ right -of- the- profoundly- disabled- to- live case and NOT a right-to-die case. The court decision was opposed by disability rights activists, an aspect almost completely ignored by the MSM and also ignored at DU.

The lack of empathy here, among "liberals,"for the profoundly disabled (or the "normally" disabled) is glaring.

Any of you know what Bush* plans to do about Social Security Disability benefits? Maybe you should find out. You could be disabled yourself before I get back. It could happen to any one of you and happen quickly.

Terri's grave" indeed.

Frankly, your willingness to disregard Terri's choice and personal autonommy gives me greater despair over the future of liberalism than anything you're feeling.

Throw out several insults, and then say you have to run. But when you cannot defend your position, when you've been demonstrably proven wrong in the most definitive possible way, I guess that's the easiest way out. So, run along now. I've got more gloating and grave dancing to do. :eyes:

when the diagnosis was not "disability" but "inability" secondary to brain death.

terminate treatment and are the property of their parents is so ANTI-RIGHTS.

no one will change anyone's minds. Leave this issue alone. agree to disagree

Terri Schiavo was a living human being who did not want to exist in a state of living death, like the vast majority of people across the political spectrum. Her parents tried to thwart her at every turn, and their spokespeople and supporters even tried to undermine marriage itself to keep Terri's body alive. Her husband stuck by her, through thick and thin despite the vile attacks of the "life at any cost regardless of your wishes" crowd. Where is YOUR heart?

The disabled community is incredibly large and diverse. There are some within that community who are opposed to the right to die. There are others, such as my partner, who are not. It is insulting, patronizing and flat-out inaccurate to attempt to equate someone who has no working brain to the entire disabled community.

graves of abortions"?>

Get off your freaking cross. She was DEAD long before she died.

But don't don't let little facts like an autopsy and your denial of the Schindlers disgusting use of their daughter for their own personal gain, and the fact that they were haging with right-wing wackos get in your way of spouting RW talking points.

Sheesh...

:eyes:

RL

I also find lack of empathy to be disgusting, the lack of empathy for Mr. Schiavo.

To dress this up as a case of rights for the disabled is inexcusable.

and not having a cerebral cortex...but there is a HUGE difference....and the law provides for a process to deal with these complex, difficult, heartbreaking situations...the heart leads to emotional decision-making and in a nation of laws, that can lead to anarchy...the RW attempted to emotionally manipulate the American public and the judiciary and state and federal legislatures into doing their bidding which was ultimately designed to give them an even greater hold on the reigns of power (not to 'help' Theresa Schiavo)...fortunately for the country, it backfired on them and hopefully will help drive these wingnuts out of power, because as you noted, the Republcans are a much greater threat to people with disabilities than the right to die issue is...they did in this case what they always do, manipulated people with fear while themselves being the greatest threat to us all!!

Congratulations. That's who you've thrown your lot in with.

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life support.

If Terri Schiavo was disabled so is every person on life support. So is every fetus. most likely.

Calling this disabled is like calling a bill toallow more pollution Clear Skies.

the graveyards are full of "profoundly disabled" people.

I had a cousin who was disabled. REALLY disabled. Terri Schavio was NOT. She was DEAD. Big difference. Please support your claims with facts or stop your rightwing talking points.

Mike's a class act.

In fact the whole Schiavo case was very upsetting because my son
was the same age as Terry. (dob 1963) He was on life support for one week due to brain trauma when we gave permission to donate his organs and save the life of 4 other people. The hardest thing a parent can do... However, if we had refused to let go, hung on a little longer or refused to accept reality (and we could have done that) those other people wouldn't have survived. I certainly didn't like the idea...but I knew that was what he would have wanted! He didn't have it written down...but told me so one night during a conversation...no wittinesses! Thank goodness no one challenged that as it would have made it even more difficult! We made that decision on July 21, 2000 and that is the DoD we use even though they kept him "alive" for two more days.

It's been a very difficult 5 years but time has a way of healing...although one really never heals...but the pain becomes more bearable and life goes on......

I do not have much sympathy for the Schiavo's...even though I know how they feel and what they are going through...for they extended their own pain by being so selfish, controlling and mean. Grief doesn't turn a person into a mean, controlling, conniving liar. They must have basically already been that way. Grief just brought it out or exposed who they really were. I was disgusted that they violated her privacy by displaying her pictures on TV for the world to see. How disgusting!

I couldn't have done anything those people did...like publicly describing what she looked like while dying...that was sick! Have they no decency? As I am thinking about this...I realize I not only have no sympathy for them...but I think I hate them for everything they did and allowed to happen in Terri's name. To politicize their daughter's situation was the last straw!

Dembones...I would not have grasped at straws as suggested in post 12.
I didn't discuss this during the Schiavo threads because it was so personal but when you propose that these sick people need our sympathy...I just have to refute what you say. These people need serious counseling! If they had accepted the medical facts years ago they could have been well on the road to recovery by now instead of their life wrapped up in grief and hatred of Michael. How much nicer that would have been.

I know how difficult it must be to relive this.
Thank you for sharing your story and showing that a loving parent doesn't parade their child in public and use their death to promote their own agenda.


edited to add:
Is that good enough for you, Dem Bones ?
Have you heard enough ?
Or would you like to keep asking if anyone else has lost a child?
Get a clue.

...is just Xian Bashing!

Thought I'd go ahead and make a pre-emptive strike on that one. :eyes:

Because that's all she has left to use now, eh?
Time for her to get a new arsenal.

This whole subject must be very difficult for you. Thanks for sharing your story.

us all choices that we never used to have.

Modern medicine dictates that superhuman efforts to "re-establish" life (heartbeat/respiration)..What often follows that procedure is a heart beating in an formerly alive/almost-dead body.

The fact that she was so young, probably played a big role in their attempts to revive her, but when you know how few minutes it takes to destroy a brain, it would have been kinder to all if they had not tried so hard.

Once she was "back", human nature and hope overtook her parents. Their desire for that miracle they knew would arrive, is what corrupted the whole process..