An email from a Repug friend, and my response

A Repug friend of mine sent me an email about the Moron's speech last night, and I responded. Wanted to share with my DU family.

Here's the text of the email: After reading his speech it confirms why we are in Iraq. And if you can not see it then your eyes are covered by a blanket called "HATE". stand by your America....................if you don't like what it stands for then live in another country. Have a nice day.

And following is my response:

Your rhetoric is so off-base I don't even know where to begin!

You say Bush's speech confirms why we are in Iraq. Nothing about Bush's speech told the American people why we are in Iraq.

Allow me to explain to you the reasons we are NOT in Iraq. We are there NOT because of September 11. We are NOT there because Iraq posed a threat to the United States. We are NOT there because Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Read Condi Rice's own words about Sadaam and 9/11: "...We have never claimed that Saddam Hussein had either, that Saddam Hussein had either direction or control of 9/11." - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice

Read George Bush's words on the issue: "No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th." - President George W. Bush

And now, Donald Rumsfeld: "I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that . - Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

Yet despite this, George Bush tried to link 9/11 with the war in Iraq during his speech last night. It is also interesting that before September 11, both Condi Rice and Colin Powell said Sadaam Hussein was contained, and was not a threat to the United States.

We ARE there because George W. Bush had designs on Iraq well before he was coronated and installed into the White House. The administration was taking its eye off the ball (Afghanistan) and placing it on Iraq, in the hours and days after 9/11. If you read Richard Clarke's book Against All Enemies (which I'm sure you haven't and won't) you will see that on the day after 9/11, Donald Rumself talked of "getting Iraq," and said that they should bomb Iraq, not Afghanistan, because Afghanistan did not have good bombing targets. In case your memory needs refreshing, the person who orchastrated our attacks was in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

I know I have mentioned this to you before, but I encourage you to read the Downing Street Memo. I know you will NOT read it, because every assumption you had about Iraq will be thrown out the window. But if you WERE to read the Downing Street Memo, you would know that the policy of the United States was to attack Iraq, and we were determined to FIX THE FACTS around that policy. Rather, we should have been fixing the policy around the facts.

Also, you should know that on the eve of the Iraq war, our military leaders were reviewing the slides they had been provided by the Pentagon and WH, regarding the Iraq invasion. When they got to the slide about post-war Iraq, and post-war planning, the slide said "To Be Provided."

Well, we are living with the results of this administration's "To Be Provided" attitude. Think about it: we claimed we were going into Iraq because 1) Sadaam posed a threat to us and 2) we wanted to liberate the Iraqis. We claimed to love the Iraqis. Why is it that we are now FIGHTING the very people we claimed to have loved?

And you seriously have no understanding of democracy, and no understanding of America, if you think we are filled with "hate" for not supporting the Iraq invasion, and if you think we need to move to another country. For your information, one of the hallmarks of ANY democracy is the right of a people to speak out against the policies of its government. You are the unpatriotic one if you think we don't have the right to speak out. It's because we love our country that we hate to see the wrong turn it has taken under this failed administration.

I encourage you to do your own research, not be intellectually lazy, and not just read the Republican talking points (which are full of lies).

And if you support the Iraq invasion so much, why don't you go to your nearest military recruiting office and sign up? It always amazes me that the biggest hawks (war lovers) are the ones who refuse to fight wars. Is it any wonder to you that George Bush, Dick Cheney and Condi Rice have never fought in a foreign land? George Bush, who was a vehement supporter of the Vietnam war, bragged to his Harvard Business School teacher about using his father's connections to avoid the draft. It's called cowardness.

You call that a friend?! :wow:

I really don't want our political differences to get in the way of our friendship...but it's getting hard.

He can no longer sit there and deny whats going on with IRAQ, since Bush himself said those words on the RECORD a while ago, there was no connection to 9/11 anyway.

She doesn't live in the reality-based community like we do. I have my suspicions that she's only a Repug, because her family taught her to be one. And now her husband is one. So she gets her talking points to me, from them. I am constantly urging her to not just believe what her father or her husband tell her, but to do her own research. It falls on death ears.

the same perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks perpetrated the illegal attack on iraq

I don't know you but I promise never to demand that you leave the country if you don't believe everything I do.

See? Already I'm a better friend! :D

he was bamboozled. That may be what drove his obscene and nasty post to you. Cutting off communication for a while might be in order, just let the facts that are slowly getting out to do their work.

If he doesn't come around within a year or so of mail block, you'll know he's crazy. Crazy people are very limited in the type of friendship they can cope with.

I sincerely doubt he read all of your post, because it was a very long one. Until he's ready to, say thanks but no thanks, you'd rather block his ugly posts and remain friends in the future rather than allow them and become enemies right now.

write him off.

Well thought out and expressed. I would have been cursing - no, I would have dumped this person long ago. But kudos to you and good luck changing that closed mind!

I mean were you two having dialouge before the speech? If I got that e-mail from someone I'd be reconsidering the friendship--I go out of my way NOT to talk politics so I don't destroy relationships.

A mutual friend of ours (who happens to be left of center like I am) forwarded our Repug friend an email from John Kerry, discussing Bush's speech & the war in Iraq. So the only way the Repug friend could respond to being forwarded the text of John Kerry's email, was to say if you don't like it, get out of the country. And she sent it not to the person who forwarded the Johnny Kerry email; she sent it to the rest of us who she knows are left of center as well. So that's what happened.

If this doesn't convince him, I don't know what will.

(I'd be curious to read his response. Thx.)

Something like, "why do you hate America" and "why are you supporting terrorists" and "we're trying to help THOSE people",...well, ya' get the drift.

May I suggest that, when you get that retaliation against truth, you respond, "Fine. I was just giving you the facts. I respect your freedom to choose and take a position. I believe we will find ourselves fighting for our best interests rather than being USED by those who betray us. Someday."

You've done everything that anyone could do to open his/her eyes. This person actually doesn't seem very nice. Unless this E-mail is really out of character for this person, I have to say that you deserve better.

I'm going to bookmark this because you've laid out the arguments so well. We have a lot of people just like this person where I work.

Thanks for your efforts! :hug:

You had a great response and provided many examples of why Bu$h was wrong and exposed the liars hollow words.

to think of some Repugs as friends, even some relatives. While there are far more tragic elements of this whole mess, I am saddened to see so much divisivness among friends and family.

Your Post recommended, BTW. Thanx.

Reminds me of the stereotypical bully. They strut around like they're tough. Talking big and walking w/ their chests all puffed out, all the while never realizing that someone else when pressed will unleash an ass-whooping on them they never could have dreamed of.

Let us know what kind of wimpering response you get (if any) from him.

P.S. It's called cowardice

Hate to correct an otherwise perfect verbal assault, but it's a sickness I have. (I have a doctor's appointment to look at it)

It may be a bit long for someone who's embraced the RW rhetoric. That camp seems to like short bursts of not-very-well-thought-out
slogans that have nothing to do with truth. We live in a sound-byte society, and some people may be too lazy to bother looking into the facts.

I wouldn't write this person off. The more information you give your friend, sans any hostility, the better, IMO. To write them off and block their mail makes you the one who's being unreasonable.

Some people have to be taken by the hand and shown the error of their ways. I'd work on this one a bit longer before calling it quits, especially if you're friends. Who knows, there could be a breakthrough. :)

No offensejournalist 3072...but anyone who tells you to live in another country if you disagree with them is not a friend.

What ever happened to conservatives you can debate with without resorting to this level of cheap and immature nationalistic slings that questions anothers loyalties? I remember a few but are they dying out and being replaced by this kind of idiotic rhetoric?

IMHO anyone who supports this immoral war with all that's been revealed (not that many of us didn't know this would happen) isn't going to change now. They're too deep into the kool-aid and the lies and will never admit this invasion was a mistake and their blind obidience to this regime encourages them to lie further to "justify" the previous lies.

I knew sooner rather than later this regime would play the "terror" card as though the threat was like the big red scare. "Islamists" are everywhere and we're the victims. Oh yea, Repugnicans like to think they're victims and this one hits all their buttons. Of course they also like to talk tough, too...that is until you attempt to have them explain themselves. Then the urge to laugh can be overwhelming.

Thanks.

why he didn't move to a different country when Clinton was president, seeing as how he didn't support the government then.

If they think that way, they won't be my friends. That's it. I can't be friends with anyone with whom i'm not philosophically compatible. We don't have to be in lockstep, but i can't be friends with someone who is my polar political opposite. I wouldn't respect them, and i need to respect my friends.
The Professor

keep us posted!

My friend replied to the email I sent. We've been going back and forth all afternoon, so I'll just give a synopsis of some of our exchanges today.

My friend wrote "Yes i agree with you on that Sadaam did not have direct control of what happened on 9/11, but he did harbor Terriorest!!!!"

And here is my reply to that: "Sadaam did not harbor terrorists! Before the U.S. invasion, Iraq was not known as a country that harbored terrorists. We TURNED Iraq into a terrorist country post-invasion. You have to know your history and know your facts. Osama bin Laden was no lover of Sadaam Hussein, whom he considered a secular Muslim; in other words, not a real muslim at all. And if the United States really did think Iraq harbored terrorists, why is it that the Reagan/Bush administration took Iraq's side during the Iran/Iraq war, and gave them arms."

As I'm constantly making my arguments to her, she writes "you are trying so hard. stop looking at the mad stuff and look at the good. If every one tries to find bad things, there never going to see the good. remember he was re-elected!!"

And I responded to THAT by saying: "Trying so hard? Looking at the mad stuff? Again, I deal with REALITY and the FACTS around me. You are the one blinded by loyalty.

And he was NOT re-elected. He wasn't "elected" in 2000. He was chosen by the Supreme Court, who intervened and stopped the counting. You have to be elected initially, in order to be re-elected.

And the results of the 2004 election are extremely doubtful as well.

Point being, you need to stop this intellectual laziness that you have. You need to be intellectually curious and study the facts around you.

And speaking of the 2004 election, you should find it disturbing, to say the least, that YOU are supporting a President who feels he is NOT accountable to the American people. In January 2005 of this year, George Bush granted an interview to the Washington Post, and said he is not accountable. He said he had his "accountability moment" and it was called the 2004 election. Think about it. YOU voted for George Bush, and he says he is not accountable to you.

Moreover, many polls are showing that people who DID vote for Bush in 2004 are experiencing buyer's regret. He has the lowest approval ratings of his presidency right now. Americans are not supporting his social security plan. They are not in lockstep with Bush on Iraq. The American people are NOT supporting his agenda, which is why he had to give a prime-time pep rally the other night."

where people don't actually think for themselves, they turn that function over to their cult leader and follow with blind trust.

And somehow they think that blind faith/trust in The Leadership, is patriotic.

It's very bizarre. There must be some serious holes in our educational systems that would allow this total lack of critical thought to be acceptable and pass as patriotic/American.

I have to ask, just which one of you two is covered with the blanket called HATE...?



It, sounds to me as though she is....

I have to give you a lot of credit. I would have ended this "friendship" long ago after being called the names that you were called.
Anyone who can still defend * after all that has happened in the past year, is probably beyond logic and reason. They truly are like a cult member and nothing short of drastic reprogramming would change their view of the warped reality in which they live.

Your letter was excellent. It should have been very convincing in any reasonable situation.

I think youre making excellent progress debunking the disinformation. Keep patient and work on her with an open heart. You can't fool all the people...

And please do keep us updated. I always enjoy watching debates like this, and all discussions that really change people.