Do you want to ban video games?

I don't want to ban video games. I hope you don't want to ban video games. I don't know anybody who wants to ban video games. I've heard of people who want to ban video games, generally they're the same people who want to also ban Harry Potter novels, sex education, and the Homosexual Agenda.

So why are Hillary Clinton and Joe Li...

So why are Hillary Clinton and other democrats who still have a shred of respectibility left pandering to these book burning nutjobs?

And please stop with "it's about responsible advertising, a good rating system, it leads to violence blah blah blah..."

Bullshit. Video game producers are responsible advertisers, and if you can't understand the rating system you're to stupid to be supervising kids anyway. This whole issue is about censorship. Period. Claiming otherwise is like saying the flag burning amendment is about outdoor burning bans for environmental protection.

Shit, I'd sooner go out any BUY San Andreas than support a politician pulling stupid shit like this.

so we can see Sen. Clinton's remarks?

I'm sure one could easily find plenty of links with google.

First, it's not necessarily common knowledge to everyone just because it's common knowledge to New Yorkers, gaming junkies, Clinton watchers, etc.

Second, I think people should source their stuff on DU whenever possible

Third, I'm extremely lazy and I don't want to have to look anything up :)

Right on all three counts, the third one I'm taking your word on !

:hi:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/14/nyregion/14hillary.html?oref=login&pagewanted=print

WASHINGTON, July 13 - Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is calling on federal regulators to investigate the latest version of Grand Theft Auto, a popular video game series that allows players to go on simulated crime sprees.

In a letter she is sending Thursday to the Federal Trade Commission, Mrs. Clinton expressed concern over reports that anyone who used a free code downloaded over the Internet could unlock sexually graphic images hidden inside the game, called Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

Mrs. Clinton asked the commission to determine "the source of this content," especially since the game can fall into the hands of young people. The game industry's self-policing unit, the Entertainment Software Rating Board, is investigating whether the maker of the game violated the industry rule requiring "full disclosure of pertinent content."

Mrs. Clinton also asked the commission to look into whether the industry erred in giving the game a rating of M, or mature, for players 17 years and older. National electronics store chains sell M-rated games but tend to avoid adult-only titles.

just like banning drugs has

just like banning guns will

banning is NEVER the answer because the govt cannot provide 100% certainty that the ban is 100% enforced

hands...... and feet, 12 feet of heavy chain, 15 pounds of cement, 2 tubes of super glue, well you get the picture.

What the hell is Hillary doing on this? I am a mother of a teenager who plays Grand Theft Auto (hell, I bought it for him.) He hasn't done anything but have fun playing this imaginary game.

What the hell is up with Hillary? I'm not sending money to her if she does dumb, feel-good things like this. (What is this supposed to accomplish anyway?)

When in fact she's pandering to the other party's extreme.

What I don't get is how she thinks it's going to pay off. It obviously never worked for Lieberman.

I don't have a problem with YOU BUYING IT FOR HIM. My problem is if any age can buy it themselves. REstrict the sales to 18+. If a parent feels there is no problem with their kid playin them, let them buy the games.

Most kids have friends who older than them. Heck most kids have siblings who are older than them. Both were the case for me. Thus, things like alcohol, cigarrettes, Adult magazines were accessible to me many years before 18...if I so desired them.

I've killed billions of things in vidoegames. From Ghouls and Ghosts to Koopa Troopas to Police officers to Lions, Tigers and Bears...OH MY!

Violence in videogames has no affect on people who are already good people. If you are a violent person to begin with...some of the things in videogames may alter your mood, like watching a movie gets people hyped on the particular subject or listening to a rap song with a certain mood to it gets the listener to feel that mood...in that sense it videogames can reinforce what you already believe...or if you're playing a game and you find it fun but you don't agree with the real world issues...it's just that...a game.

Videogames are art. And they should not be censored. My favorite videogames is called Xenogears...it almost didn't get released stateside because it's based on the Gnosis mixed with sci-fi elements and God is a weapon and the real god is the Wave Existence. Yes, religious right Christians probably don't want their kids playing this game...however it truly is an amazing story with themes all over the place. This game goes against everything I believe in, in terms of there being a god or not...I'm an agnostic. I still hold my agnostic beliefs but thank the game for its many vibrant characters, it's amazing plot, awesome soundtrack and it's many themes that I and the world can relate to.

rating for movies. If a kid gets hold of it, it's not the publishers fault.

Jay

Plus the content is similar to what's in a rated R movie.

http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp#symbols


<SNIP>

MATURE

Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

</SNIP>

You will probably point to the word "may" as the stickler here, but all the ESRB ratings have this problem. Maybe they should tighten up the ratings a bit. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Jay

Which would be essentially pornography. As far as I've known there's never been a mass market videogame with an AO rating.

I haven't got a problem with the ratings. GTA is the equivalent of an R rated film.

Actually it looks like they could use another category. I bet tons of Japanese game (if released in the US) would get an AO rating. Especially the Hentai <sp?> based ones. I don't quite get that stuff though.

Jay

The MPA got rid of the X rating several years ago and replaced it with "NC-17" to try and remove the stigma attached to the "X" rating. Adults were avoiding "X" rated films simply due to the stigma, and it had in effect become a form of censorship, which was never the intention of the rating system. They've been fiddling around with the system since NC-17 has developed the same stigma since its development.

Japanese pornography games are like pornographic DVDs. They're not subject to the ratings boards since they're not released to the same mass market.

I don't think that X was ever an actual rating. It was a title that porn producers gave themselves because they could not get their movies rated by the MPAA the NC17 rating was created to bridge the gap between R and the fictitious X. Also adult games are heavily marketed in Japan. Here are a couple of links for you perusal.

http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/features/45356/Cant_Get_a_Girl_Try_a_Dating_Sim.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPAA_film_rating_system

Jay

regulated as to who can buy them! You buy what you want, but it's wrong for someone 12-18 to be playing Grant Theft Auto for hours every day. They don't all have a mature enough brain to realize you never do that kind of stuff, just to see if you can.

Obviously you must think they are stupid. But scientists have learned over the last couple of years that even children can distinguish between fiction and and reality.

I've seen events happen near where I live, where teens do some very dumb things, and when they get in serious trouble and are asked WHY, their response is always, becaue I just wanted to see what would happen, or because I wanted to see if I could.

Sometimes it's stealing a car, sometimes it's burgulary, or shoplifting.

A friend of mine had a 1970 Barracuda. Not a show car, but fully restored and a nice car. Three kids decided to take it for a joy ride. They were ages 12, 13, & 15. Guess what? They totaled it! Lost control going too fast around a curve. When they were asked WHY, they said, we decided to see if we could! We do really great with the racing games!

I don't mean to insinuate that all teens would do those kind of things, but if only a few do, that's a few too many.

Let the parent make the decision. If they think it's OK for their kid to have the gams, let 'em buy it for them!

children don't understand the difference between fantasy and reality, and if they play violent videogames they'll get a gun and shoot their friend and think they'll come back to life. That's the argument. Same with Harry Potter and witchcraft.

fantasy and reality, but they don't have the maturity to decide the "I'm going to try that" idea is just plain stupid! Didn't you ever do anything really dumb when you were young, and now think back and say, Oh Gees, what the hell was I thinking? I have! I was lucky! None of the stupid things I did ever got me or anyone else into real trouble, but some of them sure could have!

Like no cars were ever stolen and kids never went joyriding before video games? Oh pleeze.

I had a copy of the keys to my mom's car when I was 14...

Maybe it was pong that made me do it... Yeah that's it.

you see cars going around curves too fast in movies or anything.

:eyes:

I'd like to make it here:

What we're talking about with the whole "Hot Coffee" thing goes much further than simple content in the game. The mod that enables the scene is a user-created downloadable patch; the content is otherwise locked out during normal play. Further, the mod is much more difficult to apply on the console version than it is on the PC version, and it is the console version that most of the younger set plays. By and large, adults play the PC version more than the console version.

Modding introduces an unpredictable element into the whole concept of gaming: user created content. I mentioned a scenario that could involve the upcoming Elder Scrolls IV- Oblivion game from Bethesda for the PC:

Questing Hero must rescue Damsel in Distress, after which he has sex with her. The modder creating this content writes the plot in such a way that the sex act itself is an integral part of the plot. The damsel's God appears and grants the player some new ability.

Yes, it sounds farfetched, but the beauty of modding is that a scene like that could be written into a user mod and be fairly convincing given the level of realism in current and upcoming games. It is this that the fundy set is really after: stripping the ability of the user to create objectionable content not created by the publisher, possibly by making modding itself as illegal as they can.

Is that a stratch? Perhaps, but at this point, I would put nothing past this bunch. Even the possibility that a user can create something like this is just something they cannot stand to allow.

Don't think they won't try to do something like this. They already want a $90M investigation/study into media and "young minds". Trust me, they would love to add modding to the DMCA as an illegal act if they think they can get away with it.

because you're shocked to learn that junior mod it to produce large, albeit squarish, breasts.

Although the process is signifigantly more involved, of course. Try making a Half-Life 2 map sometime. Sheesh.

And don't get me started on how hard id's Radiant editor is to use. YUCK!!

You ever seen those expert etch-a-sketch artists? They're quite good and heavily involved.

Videogames are not the problem in this world. People who complain about videogames ruining society are the problem.
The Professor

This is such a quick and easy topic for politicos on both side of the aisle to use to bring in the heartland moms and technophobic older folks (not that all older folk are technophobic).

Personally, I think these parents should worry less about their kids unlocking porn in a video game, and worry more about unlocking porn from their dad's sock drawer. Or worse, unlocking the gun cabinet...

I just can't imagine why they think it's going to work to pander to the other party's extremists.

If they appeal to both sides, then EVERYONE will vote for them!

:eyes:

EDIT - Full disclosure here: I write video games as a hobby, so my cynicism should be viewed for what it is - the aberrant thought process of a sadist, deviant, and seducer of the innocent. Please report me to Congress. It's for my own good, really. :)

playing it for almost 10 years!

Actually video games have been excellent for my youngest son. He was born with borderline CP and has had small motor problems. When tested the testors couldn't believe how high he scored with hand eye reflex.

Let's have the Government ban stuff instead....that'll work.

I am perfectly capable of playing any game my daughter gets and seeing if I approve. They're just games. She used to play Doom with me when she was five or six. I think GTO is hilarious, and if people can't figure out that it's just a game, they're idiots. As long as they're advertised appropriately, just like movie previews, I have no problem at all.

He needs to STFU.

And that is what I do in my house with my 11 year-old son. In fact, I just came back from the video store where I banned my son from playing some "Let's Beat the Shit out of Somebody or Blow Some Shit Up" game. And I don't even have a tough time with the ratings policy as it is. It's all pretty clear. The government - that is a different issue- keep out of it. Hillary is just getting ready for a run.

She'll be lucky to crack 50 million votes nationwide in the General Election.

I sure the hell won't be voting for her.

but she sure as hell is running for the middle ( and, I think, misreading it). She is my senator, and I'm very disappointed in her of late. That, of course, is all relative.

The Democrats need to stay out of it. Throughout history we have continuously seen how going after entertainment is a really bad idea. Considering how many young intelligent people are playing videogames as a hobby it seems like a really bad idea to take on that cause. The only thing that needs to happen is that the retailers need to make people show their IDs when they attempt to buy a game with an M rating or above. Then again they don't even do that for R rated movies and some R rated movies have sex scenes that are just as bad or worse than the "Hot Coffee" mod.

First I have to admit I love video games, I grew up on them and still play them.

My daughter is 18, but when she was younger I did try and guide what she watched and what games she played. I also kept a close eye on the children she played with, and if I though their parents weren't doing their job at home I didn't let her hang out at that kids house. They would come over to our place and I knew what they were watching, listening to and playing.

I didn't need nor want someone to make these choices for my child, that was my job as far as I could tell.

This is just my opinion.

Like I said earlier if Clinton actually follows through with this she's going to have some negative effects on the youth vote. I feel it's the parent's responsibility and not the responsibility of the government to parent our kids. Also, it shows favortism to other markets such as Hollywood movies by only going after videogames. What about R rated movies that anybody can purchase?

Check out some comments on these videogame boards.

http://forums.gamespot.com/gamespot/show_messages.php?board=314159266&topic=22200853&page=0


http://boards.ign.com/Grand_Theft_Auto/b5257/92989256/?13

With all that's going on in this administration this is the crap they worry about? It's sickening and they are too busy trying to score political points to realize the sex shit isn't even a part of the real game, it's an add on.