Sorry for such a general question:

What is the latest about Rove?

Is he in trouble?

Has it been shown that he did something ethically wrong?

It is difficult for me to picture exactly what has transpired,

I realize there is an investigation going, so there are a lot questions still.

Take me through the spin.

I know I do not care for ROVE, just based on prior behavior, but has he done something for which he should get nailed with Wilson's wife?

there are tons of threads, some with time lines laying out the story.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

his only punishment, but hopefully that will wake up the ? % of the blind that really voted for Shrub.Oh ya bite me freeper.

We have FACTS on our side...

Anyone that has spent any time here can find plenty on what is up with Karl. Please feel free to read.

You seem quite doubtful that Karl did anything wrong!

What's up with that? Of freaking course he should (and will) be nailed, indicted, fired, jailed.

Are you kidding with this thread or are you just really, really confused?

Since you seem desperate for some, here's a bit of "Spin" for your enjoyment.

Maybe the OP has been living in a cave with Osama.
My guess he's just a one hit wonder.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

Maybe honestly living underground.

But, more likely just another case of someone "disassembling" in order to "catapult the propoganda".

But, hey, walk me through the spin...

He is from Germany. Do you know the details of the latest political scandal in Germany? Why is he living in a cave just because he hasn't kept up wit the details of the frauds, felonies and follies of the bush administration?

He is asking an honest question. Is this how we greet overseas visitors who want to get a progressive analysis of the Plame scandal?

to find the latest by opening any of 1,000 other threads. If someone can post here (from Germany of the moon) they have access to all the info they need. Just because you do not live in the US does not mean the info is not right here for all to see.

Although, It was nice of you to summarize. Well done. Excellent in fact.

Sadly, I'm sure they will not reference your post when Conservative sites start spinning this thread.

Most of the posts here assume a working knowledge of who Rove is, and what happened over two years ago.

Just try reading any of these threads as though you were coming from a foreign country.

If you read a thread about how Moyo's disclosures are really going to blow Mugabe's administration out of the water, that we would learn how Zanu-pf's vote fraud stole the election from Tsvangirai in Matabeleland, and a lot of follow up posts, would you be able to put that in context? If you were reading about it in your second or third language?

What's so bad about giving the guy a primer rather than insulting him and assuming he's a freeper?

A lot of you folks are just plain paranoid.

Hope the reposting patrol over at those other sites adds a link so they can actually read what you wrote.

I did not mean to imply wakeup was a freep (although on reread some of what I said sounds a bit that way). I apologize.

It is just that posts such as this end up spreading around. Not that we should live in fear of freeps reposting and twisiting. Somethings just seem ripe for such uses. One post and no follow up replies did seem odd.

No offense Wakeup. My bad. We love our foreign visitors. Come back.

But online, can we ever be sure people are what they say they are?

On edit: nice synopsis


Keith’s Barbeque Central

I agree with you completely, but this is not the place for me after being scolded as if I were here to cause a problem.

I defy anyone to find a repost of this!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a little ticked off how it is that someone asks a question and is treated like someone with the plague!!!!!!

I still believe in the cause.

America IS the center of the Universe, after all.

Compromising her effectiveness. Such an act may be a crime, and definately shows a lack of judgement on matters of national security.

President Bush promised to fire whoever was responsible for the leak - and Rove may well be the person responosible. If President Bush is a man of his word he will fire Rove.

Simple, eh?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

Subject: Duers Do Not Really Believe Karl Did Anything Wrong. Proof That It Is All Dirty Politics!

Hi, Trolls!

Seen the game many times before. Not original.

No matter how many times I smell one of these posts, they still turn my stomach...

Hello wakeup. I understand you are from Germany and don't have the day to day reporting to understand this scandal, so here is a primer.

First, who is Karl Rove? He is the main political strategist of the Bush administration. But, he is much more powerful than political strategists have been in other administrations. The Bush administration has used lots of "dirty tricks" and Rove is the main architect -- from vote fraud in Ohio and Florida, to bribing of journalists like Armstrong Williams, the intimidation of other journalists and the continuous stream of lies and spin coming out of Washington. Many suspect him of even more evil political crimes, such as setting up Dan Rather with a single phoney document to discredit his entire true story about Bush deserting when he was in the Texas Air National Guard. Rove is the evil genius behind the Bush administration, commonly referred to as "Bush's brain." In other words Rove is extremely vindictive, vicious and terrifying figure in Washington.

Now the scandal. As you know, Bush lied repeatedly about the threat posed by Sadam in order to scare the American people into supporting the war in Iraq. One big lie they told was that Iraq possessed or would soon possess nuclear weapons. The UK produced fake, forged documents showing that the African country, Niger, had sold uranium ore or "yellow cake" to Iraq.

The CIA was asked to investigate whether Niger really sold uranium ore to Iraq. At the time, VP Cheney was pressuring the CIA to come up with false intelligence to support the threat from Iraq and hence the war.

A high level undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame, suggested her husband, Joe Wilson, would be ideal to investigate this matter. Wilson was former ambassador to Iraq and also an expert on Africa. Plame was a deep cover agent, investigating weapons of mass destruction proliferation, but ostensibly operating as an international businesswoman.

Wilson went to Niger, discovered that Niger did not sell uranium ore to Iraq and that the documents were forgeries. He reported this to the CIA.

Despite now knowing that the Niger-Iraq uranium deal was false, Bush made a speech stating that Iraq was acquiring uranium from Niger. This was a blatant lie and Bush and his administration knew it was a lie when he said it.

After Joe Wilson heard the speech, he wrote an opinion piece in the NY Times saying that Niger was not selling uranium to Iraq.

Shortly thereafter, someone in the administration leaked to the press that Joe Wilson's wife was a CIA agent. The disclosure by a government official of an undercover CIA agent's identity is a serious crime in the US.

Ultra right wing columnist Robert Novak reported that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent. This blew Plame's cover and destroyed her career, which depended on secrecy. There are some internet reports that at least one of her contacts overseas has been captured or killed as a result of this disclosure.

This disclosure was apparently a petty, vindictive attempt to discredit Wilson (that is to allege that his assignment was a form of patronage and nepotism) and to intimidate CIA and other intelligence officials by showing that if they reported the truth their careers would be destroyed.

A special prosecutor was appointed to find out who leaked Plame's identity. Several journalists who wrote about Plame being a CIA agent or who had notes about the matter were subpeonad by the prosecutor. US journalists on principle do not reveal their sources. One journalist, Judith Miller of the NY Times, refused to testify and is now in jail for contempt of court.

But another news organization decided to obey the subpoena and turn over documents relating to the leak. These documents showed that Rove talked to the press, although evidence is not completely conclusive that Rove leaked the information.

Rove was greatly feared in Washington. People in Congress, the press and other institutions were terrified of him. Now he has been weakened and the early stages of a feeding frenzy have appeared. If Rove is forced to resign, Bush will lose his "brain", and the administraiton will be fatally weakened and opened up to all kinds of investigations that people were too fearful to begin before.

read it since you obviously took some time.

If not, it is not wasted. I'm bookmarking it.

as to explain the hostility towards W.U.A. that leaps through cyberspace in your posts? I jes' wanna understand.

there are a lot of behind-the-scenes details, and selective leaks designed to help Rove's case.

But one thing we know for sure is that Rove outed Plame to Miller, and that Bush, Scotty and Rove himself had denied that for two years.

All the rest is murky, but what we know for sure puts Rove and Bush in deep trouble.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6677

<snip>
One thing that has always struck me as odd about this whole affair – and I wasn't the only one – is a seemingly minor detail: why did Novak's original column, which started all this brouhaha, identify Valerie Plame by her maiden name? After all, most married women – even in this era of Women's Liberation – defer to the tradition of taking their husband's name, but I have to admit that, even after wondering about it for a brief moment, I shrugged and moved on. As it turns out, however, this is an important detail, because now we have Rove's lawyer saying that he at no time gave out Valerie Plame's name: but if Rove identified her as Joe Wilson's wife, what the heck is the difference?

The difference is that, as Valerie Plame, Mrs. Wilson was affiliated with a CIA front company, Brewster-Jennings & Associates, engaged in tracking and stopping the proliferation of nuclear weapons. As soon as her name was made public, the implications for U.S. national security amounted to a grave breach – far more of a crime than merely violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, which has only had a single prosecution since its passage in 1982. As the Washington Post reported when the Plame scandal broke:

"A former diplomat who spoke on condition of anonymity said yesterday that every foreign intelligence service would run Plame's name through its databases within hours of its publication to determine if she had visited their country and to reconstruct her activities. 'That's why the agency is so sensitive about just publishing her name,' the former diplomat said."

The publication of her maiden name not only endangered Valerie Wilson, but also blew the cover of a CIA front and imperiled anyone she might have come in contact with during her stint overseas. This isn't just a matter of of violating a statute that, at most, entails a 10-year jail sentence and a fine – this is a question of possible espionage.

What also seems fairly clear is that Karl Rove would not have had direct knowledge of Plame-Wilson's covert activities on behalf of the CIA, and that only a very few people high up in the national security bureaucracy had the clearance to get access to her name. So who was it? If Rove leaked to Novak, and half a dozen Washington reporters, then who leaked to the leakers?

One thing that has always struck me as odd about this whole affair – and I wasn't the only one – is a seemingly minor detail: why did Novak's original column, which started all this brouhaha, identify Valerie Plame by her maiden name? After all, most married women – even in this era of Women's Liberation – defer to the tradition of taking their husband's name, but I have to admit that, even after wondering about it for a brief moment, I shrugged and moved on. As it turns out, however, this is an important detail, because now we have Rove's lawyer saying that he at no time gave out Valerie Plame's name: but if Rove identified her as Joe Wilson's wife, what the heck is the difference?

The difference is that, as Valerie Plame, Mrs. Wilson was affiliated with a CIA front company, Brewster-Jennings & Associates, engaged in tracking and stopping the proliferation of nuclear weapons. As soon as her name was made public, the implications for U.S. national security amounted to a grave breach – far more of a crime than merely violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, which has only had a single prosecution since its passage in 1982. As the Washington Post reported when the Plame scandal broke:

"A former diplomat who spoke on condition of anonymity said yesterday that every foreign intelligence service would run Plame's name through its databases within hours of its publication to determine if she had visited their country and to reconstruct her activities. 'That's why the agency is so sensitive about just publishing her name,' the former diplomat said."

The publication of her maiden name not only endangered Valerie Wilson, but also blew the cover of a CIA front and imperiled anyone she might have come in contact with during her stint overseas. This isn't just a matter of of violating a statute that, at most, entails a 10-year jail sentence and a fine – this is a question of possible espionage.

What also seems fairly clear is that Karl Rove would not have had direct knowledge of Plame-Wilson's covert activities on behalf of the CIA, and that only a very few people high up in the national security bureaucracy had the clearance to get access to her name. So who was it? If Rove leaked to Novak, and half a dozen Washington reporters, then who leaked to the leakers?

This isn't about Rove.

It's about a cabal of war hawks inside the administration who passed on this information to others without telling them about Plame-Wilson's deep cover status, perhaps suggesting that she was just an analyst working at a desk rather than a covert operative involved in a vitally important overseas operation, the knowledge of which was highly compartmentalized and only dispensed on a need-to-know basis. When Rove and his shills blabbed to reporters and anyone who would listen, they didn't realize that they were aiding and abetting an elaborate ploy to stick it to the CIA.

It's about a cabal of war hawks inside the administration who passed on this information to others without telling them about Plame-Wilson's deep cover status, perhaps suggesting that she was just an analyst working at a desk rather than a covert operative involved in a vitally important overseas operation, the knowledge of which was highly compartmentalized and only dispensed on a need-to-know basis. When Rove and his shills blabbed to reporters and anyone who would listen, they didn't realize that they were aiding and abetting an elaborate ploy to stick it to the CIA.

to wade through the internet, printed media, television and radio to develop a clear picture of what is happening with the Rove situation.

And, I do not live under a rock. Nor do I have 24 hours news station, except CNN, which is very one-sided.

The European press carries it to a certain extent, but not the level you guys do.

I do not care for Bush and his operatives. I am a supporter of the Democratic Party and its values. But, I think I should ask question, if I don't know something or want to get other viewpoints.

Sorry to have offended anyone.

Gee whiz.

Is there ANYONE on the face of the planet who knows everything about this case?

I am just trying to inform myself.

I was referring to the spin from the other side, which makes difficult for me put a picture together,

My apologizes to all who seem to know everything.


Thank you.

:hi:

Woher sind Sie? Desculpe, de que país é você?

Gibt's doch nicht. Was für eine Behandlung sehe ich hier? :hide:

:hi: :hug:

Jedoch ich weiß nicht. Wohin ging der OP? :shrug:

Gerade hab' ich viele posts gelesen von w.u.a. und diese behandlung ist GRAUSAM und PEINLICH!!!! Meine FICKEN FRESSE!!! Jemand sucht INFO in solidarität und guck mal... :puke: Ich schame mich!!!!

:cry:

Während ich nicht genau sicher bin, ist das mein Gefühl außerdem.

Leider hab' ich diese Unsinn oft gesehen. Aber ich spreche GAR NICHTS
um und herum unsere dunkler leute die in den U.S. geboren waren, die hier nicht bleiben können wegen... Du weisst GENAU was ich meine trotz meine scheisse grammatik! ;-)

:hug:

Umgekehrt, ich verstehe auch diesen Paranoia, in Betracht der Angriffe die wir Tageszeitung von den braunen Hemden Träger.

Nun, hab' ich mindestens 100 von 153 posts gelesen. ALLE zeigt eine HERZLICHE untersturtzung für MENSCHLICHKEIT. ALLE. Was soll denn das???
Sind die Augen von sekundeklebe zu? MEINE FICKEN FRESSE! :banghead:

Ich gehe ins Bett bevor ich weine ohne ende... :cry::cry::cry:

:cry: ... :hug:

Email dieses pic Ihren deutschen Freunden bitte. :)

Kein Bild. Was soll denn das? :shrug:

Aber Rove bei BC war SUPERB!!! NAAAAA, DUUUUU!!!!

Das ist es: Scheiße. Es ist ein Stapel von Scheiße mit Gesicht Bush, eine kleine Mini-Me Karl Rove Scheiße, und einer Bush-Fahne. :D

Are they evil characters from a medieval fairy tale? Or two really nasty tropical diseases?

Or are they something like rude and disgusting, which pretty much describes the behavior of a lot of people in this thread in their replies to the OP.

is still working. Children have it but it gets submerged as one's identity becomes bound with language at about 10 or so. Grausam=disgusting und peinlich=embarrassing. Please DU can we be just a tiny bit more sensitive and welcome those from far-flung places who are endeavoring to understand the LUNACY of American politics? Your efforts are sincerely appreciated by all.

"Wake Up,America!"
http://framer.barewalls.com/frames/bw/61/61105,61202,61602/18/24/preview/v20000-0365p.jpg

UGLY, FUGLY AMIS!!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!! I've just done a search and read many of W.U.A's posts. Here is someone who on face value I surmise has Englisch as a SECOND language, is delighted to have found DU, and is trying to fill in the blanks from across the big pond from folks who seem to have a clue.

How many of YOU understand Britain's parliamentary system or understand the subtleties of early elections in Germany? Precious few. And now here comes along a "furriner" trying to get a grasp and you go into FULL ATTACK MODE. :puke: :argh: :puke: :argh:

That is, except Hamden, who for obvious reasons recognizes the situation for what it is and extends himself in an attempt to educate. Vielen, vielen dank, bro. :hug:

There are posters on this board from all over the world who support you in your struggle to regain the reins of your gub'mint. The fate of the world hangs upon Y'ALL GETTING A FUCKING CLUE! I simply ask that you THINK before pulling out your weapons and firing. This being a luxury your troops in Irag are NOT afforded.

...and agree that WIA should not have been jumped on like this. I don't know any German so couldn't comprehend the last few posts, but I think maybe a few people here jumped the gun a little bit.

I have been on this site for some years now and have watched in horror as friends and supporters are driven away. IT'S.SO.DEPRESSING.

I usually try to avoid attaching the "freeper" or "troll" label to someone unless it's blatantly obvious that that's what they are (and I have caught a few). But if someone is new to politics or from a foreign country -- or even recovering Republicans, for that matter --I think we need to be a little more gentle in getting them up to speed. I'm sure the enormity of all this can be fairly intimidating for someone just beginning to wade in.

Peace.

and the OP has obviously been trying to get a handle on the significance of the situation and supportive of liberal values in the U.S. What a shame...

These folks sure know how to welcome people into our "big tent". (sarcasm)

People get a little paranoid and shout "freeper" too quickly sometimes.

Your input and perspective would be very much appreciated around here. I hope you give the place a second chance, my friend.