Taking my friend to have an abortion tomorrow.

Just found out about the pregnancy today. She called me crying, saying that she wanted to tell me before now but was too embarassed to tell anybody. She's only 20 years old, and she just left her boyfriend a few weeks ago because he took up hitting her as a hobby. Apparently she's already gone through the 3-day wait or whatever it is, and her appointment is tomorrow morning, and she wanted to know if I would go with her (she has no one else - her parents would likely kill her if they knew). I told her of course, but the clinic she is going to is one I've been to many times as a volunteer escort, where the protestors are very, very aggressive for some reason at this particular clinic. They've had many problems with patients and clinic workers being stalked, and the protestors claim abuse at every little glance someone makes at them. I don't know why she picked this one, but this clinic is probably the worst place she could have chosen. Had I known before just now I would have suggested somewhere else.

I feel terrible for her and what she must be going through, but she is staying with me tonight and I'll drive her tomorrow and bring her home to take care of her. I don't think she can afford it either, so I will try and help her out in that area. I'm trying to reassure her that the right decision for her is the decision she has made. Thankfully (and hope this doesn't sound too weird) but at least she's had this happen to her before they outlaw Roe.

God, I hope I don't nail one of those protestors. It's always been hard for me when I was volunteering to escort girls into the clinic and now just slap the shit out of those holier-than-thou pricks and their damned crosses and Bibles. It will take all I have to not punch one of them.

And how can they claim abuse?

I wish your friend well.

They picket, and usually throw things (trash) at clinic workers and patients. Once a protestor had pig's blood in a bottle and they threw it at an escort and a patient. They will try and get between us (escorts) and the patients by physically intimidating us, and they have gotten so aggressive that we erected a fence to keep them out. Now they stand out there with tape measures claiming some BS about the fence not being up-to-code...and they call the police.

Of course, the men (who make up most of the protestors) are the most aggressive at being physically intimidating and will get THISCLOSE to you and scream at you that you're going to hell, you're a baby killer, you're doing Satan's work, etc etc, and what we're told to do us just "roll" our shoulders away from them and towards the patients. They will immediately fall to the ground and stay there pretending to just have been beaten to try and charge us with abuse.

We've had to had an escort stand out there at all times with a video camera to document anything if a "situation" arises.

Sick, sick assholes. I hate them all. If they spent half as much time dedicated to adopting babies whose mothers "chose life" instead of harssing a bunch of scared women, they could serve their cause much better.

It's sure to be hard enough for her without facing a violent confrontation.. (Maybe the freakazoids will be out getting coffee tomorrow)

of that passage in the bible. The one that says if a man accosts a pregnant woman and she loses the baby the hubby is due $$ but if the woman dies it's murder. Hand 'em out to the fundies at the clinic.

Julie

responsible for 2 abortions, the best you can to is dote on your friend, as long as it is not a problem with you and your work. You can always plead 'extenuating circumstances' or family problems. Thing is, she needs someone, and if she came to you, then you are the chosen person to deal with this crisis, and the comfort of you just being there is enough. Hot water bottles are good, and whatever is relaxing for the person who has gone thru that horrible situation.

You are a friend and comforter, as well. Perhaps the rabble outside a women's health clinic should be thrown pages of the Bible from the book of Matthew - something revolutionary, incendiary, and liberal that warns "judge not lest ye be judged." But then again, some of these people may not be able to read...

being a stubborn, confident woman those clinic freaks never unnerved me, but they do so upset some women. I cannot imagine the strength you must have to refrain from smacking those twits. But I am grateful for your friend and the other women you have taken care of.

you are obviously a good egg!

if she's having a religious crisis all of a sudden about this, to come and talk to us here. We can help her through it.

Good luck, and thank you for being a good friend to someone who needs it.

deodorant at them and enjoy the symbolism. Or maybe that cooking oil spray? Or some stink-stuff that you spray on furniture to keep the dog from chewing it. Or how 'bout silly string?

You ARE a good friend. To many frightened young women, not only your friend. I think that's what they call compassion.

Thank you for taking her.

shoes, didn't run into anyone.
Thank God she has a friend like you...best to both of you.

you'll need to show suffering christians. A christian blastocyst is worth so much more than a non christian life, didnt you know?

I remember that some prominant members of Saddam's govt were christian.

Be safe, you are a great person!

Actually an in law.

Similar deal she was pregnant the boyfriend was an asshole etc.

I took this person to the dreaded appt offered support had nursing duty afterwards bla bla bla (sorry if I sound flippant you'll see why in a minute)

Now years later she is married to an ardent wealthy right winger and guess who caused her to *commit murder* by contributing?
(apparently my gutless ex-friend and sort of relative bandied my involvement about as an excuse for her OWN choice)

Yep- so much for REAL personal responsibility amongst the right wingers.

Reading your post brought this all back and pissed me off.

These wing nuts are something else and it isn't a "good" something else.

of their stupid mindset.

Blaming others, not taking any responsibility..just like the head "pass the bucks".

With zero vested interest one way or another and years later who gets the bad rap? What the hell did I have to do with HER decision!
It boggles my mind!

and tell us you are both okay, okay?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" my friends. :hi:

Some of those guys need rabies shots.

Tell her to take heart, to have peace in the knowledge that she is keeping a child from being born who would probably spend the rest of its life either escaping the abuse of the father, or dealing with the total neglect of the father. That's no kind of life at all.

...she's too emotional to make such an important decision. She's lucky to have a good friend in you. My daughter had an abortion at the age of 20...I found out two days later. I would have been supportive , if only I had been given the chance. Any possibility that your friend will rethink telling her mom? God luck to all of you.:hug:

She went in for the initial pregnancy test a week ago, and legally had to wait 3 days(I believe) to think it over. She said she has known for sure about the pregnancy though for 3 weeks and went back and forth about carrying it to term. She ultimately decided, for a number of reasons, it was best to terminate.

I don't know if she'll tell her Mom, but I know she would not be supportive, and her father would be even less so...unfortunately. :(

That don't concern you. When it actually happens to you or someone close, people have a tendency to sing a different tune. She should be honest with her parents. She may be pleasantly surprised by their reaction.

it's her decision...period.

Speaking of being moralistic about things that don't concern you, she should do what SHE is comfortable with, not what others think she should do. If she does tell them you may be correct, or it may be a total disaster that causes a permanent family fissure, but I don't think we are in any position to tell her what she *should* do.

She's 20, isn't she? Able to make her own decisions without having to bow to parents. If I were here, I'd probably wait on telling my parents until perhaps some years have passed. Sometimes it's just not worth the grief. And it sounds like she made the correct decision, given the circumstances, and the "life" she and the baby would look forward to. I think this is pretty responsible, myself. Otherwise, she might do what I keep hearing in the news that other women have done: carry it to term, birth it, wrap it up and throw it in a dumpster. I think terminating the pregnancy is INFINITELY preferable. NO child should be unwanted. EVER.

HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST SHE WAIT EVEN LONGER????

Most, if not all, women who want to be pregnant and have been trying to conceive still have an adjustment period when they learn they are pregnant. I know I did, both times.

She could afford to wait a while, think it over some more. Her child's life is at stake, after all, and once she aborts, that child is dead forever. She'll have the responsibility forever if she goes through with the abortion; why not think it through for a couple of weeks? I also think she should tell her parents because it's likely they will want to support her, one choice or the other.

three months, heck, why not a 9 month wait JUST TO BE SURE. After all, she is only a weak-minded frivolous girl and can't possibly be expected to know what she wants for her future. Heck, why not just let YOU or * or Pat Robertson make the decision FOR HER????????????

It is HER body we are talking about. It is HER life that matters here. Women are not reproductive slaves to the embryo worshippers. If she doesn't think it is the right time for her to be having a baby, who the hell are you or anybody esle to say otherwise???

Go suck an egg.

women think about the possibility of getting pregnant BEFORE they get pregnant? That they take many steps to prevent pregnancy at times because they KNOW it's a bad time to have a child? That they consider AHEAD OF TIME what they would do IF they got pregnant in spite of birth control, at various stages of their life?

SOME people appear to think that we never give a moment's thought until we are actually pregnant, then are completely unable to think rationally about it for days, weeks, or months, so we CAN'T BE TRUSTED to decide for ourselves whether to continue the pregnancy. Weak-minded ninnies we are, I guess. Why don't you freaks just pass a law stating we are TOO STUPID to make our own decisions and call it good. It would be less hypocritical.

Every girl I grew up with started talking about what they would do if they got pregnant as soon as we were old enough to know about abortion. When I got pregnant, I knew immediately what I wanted to happen and told the doctor before he had the chance to tell me he thought it was an ectopic pregnancy (which it was). I was absolutely certain. I remain absolutely certain. And I am not unique in this.

The longer she waits, the more physically demanding and financially difficult it becomes, and if she waits long enough, in many places, it becomes impossible.

It has been several weeks since she's known. She only made her final decision last week.

because some meddling freak says so!

:mad:

She's obviously too emotional still to be rational.

and she's made HER decision. you have the choice to do whatever it is you think YOU should do too.

of moralizers who know better than she does what to do with her own body.

You can even get that here.

NOBODY HAS AN ABORTION FOR THE HELL OF IT!

How the hell do you think she made this decision? "Oh, gee, I have no plans for the weekend, I know, I'll have an abortion after my pedicure, then I'll do a little shopping and meet up with girls at that new tapas restaurant,"

:rant:

How do you the person mentioned in the OP is "too emotional"?

Please do not take out your problems with your daughter on third parties. It is not becoming.Put that energy into healing the relationship with your daughter.

and give those fuckers hell!

They come in handy.

I just can't imagine why the escorts and patients have to go thru this crap in order to exercise a legal right. May all those protestors rot in hell. I also took a family member for an abortion, but there was no problem. Good luck tomorrow, please tell your friend we are thinking of her and support her decision without reservation.

But since I cant go with you remember this.
It only takes twenty five pounds of pressure to blow out a knee cap. Kick em right about the tear drop below the knee. They'll go down like a sack of potatoes. Seriously I am so sorry the animal did this to your friend. Ill say a prayer for your safety. Please have a peaceful and gentle night. Danny.

I go kinda' "ballistic" with these A**holes. Somebody would need medical attention besides your friend. Good luck & you have my best wishes.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

This is the second thread today I've seen about this which begs the questions

1-Why is someone with such a crappy person?

2-Why aren't people better educated about birth control options i.e. the pill, depo, etc.?

3-Will she break up with this douche bag right away?

Call me old fashioned, but it sounds like that might be a good idea. Best of luck to her. Hope she recovers from this both physically and emotionally ASAP.

classic RW tactic

And I'm pro choice because it has to be that way. But hopefully the person involved, bless her heart, uses this experience to make wiser choices in partners down the road so as to save her the experience of going through this. If you find that unreasonable, honestly I couldn't care less.

I know what you are saying. You can't have it both ways. If women are given absolute total control over their bodies, you cannot paint them as victims, unless the woman is a victim of incest or rape. Getting pregnant is not an automatic slide into victimhood.

I am pro-choice and think women should have absolute total control over their reproductive choices, but the bottom line remains that they still have to be the ones who are SURE of using birth control and not depend upon the man to have it.

In a perfect world (which we do not live in) it would be great for men to be the ones who care as much about unwanted pregnancies, but until the time when men GET pregnant, every women needs to be the one primarily responsible as they are the ones who will pay the price.

Getting pregnant when one does not wish it is a horrible position to be in and I don't wish it upon my worst enemy. That is why education and abortion need to stay safe (as possible) and legal. But let us not be fooled into thinking that multiple abortions are ok. It is not, simply for the reason that it is surgery and does an incredble amount of damage to the women's body.

Geting back to the victimhood issue. Again, you can't have it both ways. On one hand you cannot claim empowerment in this area and victimhood at the same time. The responsibility of sexual activity cannot simply be flippantly disregarded. If women want the responsibility ovet their bodies, we cannot continue to support this idea of women being victims and not taking responsibility for the "choices" they make regarding not using sufficient birth control or choosing lovers who are scumbags.

I would rather see the "good friend" say "what the hell are you doing with this jerkoff" before she gets pregnant than dramatize this whole situation and painting this women as a "victim", she is not a victim and calling her spits in the face of people who are legitimate "victims"

Understood. I would hope that she pulls away from this guy. He sounds completely worthless. Must be a republi-CON or something... :evilgrin:

What I want to know is why in the F in the year 2005 there isn't a safe effective method of BC for BOTH men and women.

There is a male pill out there being marketed as we speak, but please do not get over excited about it. I, as a male, would use it, but I am getting a vasectomy soon. (two kids and done).

There will be men who will use it, but the woman (as much as I don't like it) are still the main ones who need to be responsible and she cannot count on a male to be truthful about it. Afterall, she is the one getting pregnant. Nor does the male pill protect against Aids and STD's.

or have gotten pregnant while on the pill and also using a diaphram, cervical cap.. etc.

Id just like to see some statistics if anyone has them.

1-Why is someone with such a crappy person?

She likely felt the nees to deal with her boyfriend because her father was abusive to her. He provides every material want and need she has, but has been known to hit her himself, and he is also emotionally abusive to her and his wife.

2-Why aren't people better educated about birth control options i.e. the pill, depo, etc.?

She is very educated. She was on the pill until she learned of her pregnancy and decided to stop taking it until she decided she wanted to terminate - she initially gave serious consideration to carrying the pregnancy to term. I can personally say that she has taken her pills regularly, because I am with her nearly everyday and see her taking them. I also know that she even makes the now ex-boyfriend use a condom...and still, she got pregnant. Accidents DO indeed happen, even when one is being as responsible as they possibly can.

3-Will she break up with this douche bag right away?

She broke up with him, thankfully, a bit before she learned of the pregnancy. I shudder to think what the asshole would do if he knew she was pregnant - he is a psycho and would insist she had the kid so he could have an excuse to beat on her a little longer.

"Hope she recovers from this both physically and emotionally ASAP."

Me too...thankfully, I also worked at the clinic as a "hand holder" and can say that through the probably hundreds of women who have had abortions, only two had serious mental problems afterwards. One was only because she was forced to terminate a much-wanted pregnancy because the fetus was extremely sick and would have died days - if not hours - after birth. The other was because the girl's Fundie parents insisted she have an abortion (god forbid we have a pregnant 14-year-old daughter!), but the girl herself wanted the baby. I've found in doing this job that the only woman who regret their abortions/have emotional problems with them are when a wanted pregnancy turns for the worse and abortion is necessary to save the mother's life or to spare a very ill child from a few torturous hours on Earth. Whenever the woman herself has made the decision she knows is best for her, she has no emotional problems with it. I still get many cards from girls and women years after their abortions telling us how well they are doing, sending photos of their children now, etc.

Same goes for women who come to our clinic and decide to keep their baby - clinics don't only provide abortions! :) We help them find state funds, connect them with foster/support families, etc etc.

I have seen firsthand the benefits of choice - every woman makes the choice that she thinks is best for her. Whatever *choice* that is, it is the right one for her situation. Thank God we have that freedom in this great country.

I appreciate you answering my questions, especially the one about the break up. You're right, accidents do happen. At least she was trying to take precautions. Glad she's out of the relationship.

Why does she need to justify her decision to have a legal medical procedure to you or anyone else? Where do you or anyone else get off questioning her decision?

Tell you what -- next time you need surgery or a medical procedure of any kind, come here and let us vote on it. If you are worthy enough -- if you took enough precautions to avoid whatever it is -- then maybe we'll not judge you too harshly. :sarcasm:

Now, that SHOULD sound just as ridiculous to you as your statements questioning this women does to me.

I'm sorry your friend has to go through with this. Don't be shocked if she has serious second thoughts tomorrow, and postpones on you. As a woman who was in a abusive relationship (which I left asap), I can say with experience that she may not be done with him, and may actually have some guilt over this as it pertains to someone she once (and probably still) loves/d

I wish you both the best. The pro-life do not understand that none of us are pro-abortion, we are pro-choice, because life is not always wrapped up in a perfect little package where spouses and significant others are kind and gentle, where jobs are plentiful, and homelesness is non-existent, and rape is banished forever.

The biggest bullshit line of the right wing: "Abortion on Demand"...

I have yet to meet a woman whose wanted an abortion or has looked forward to having one. Your friend's story is similar to many I've encountered over the years. Will she say she was stupid or reckless or should have known better? Of course. The torment she goes under while making this tough choice, going through the procedure and then getting back into a social life is one that is rarely brought to light. Just the bible thumpers and their holier-than-thou shit.

I've helped escort several women to clincs over the years...as no one else would go with them, and have seen these assholes; and taken a few to task for being major hypocrites ("how about the rights of the poor? Why not go to the West Side and help educate and feed some black kids"...that shuts 'em up).

Many women have been subjected to this humilation at a very difficult time and these "right to life :puke:" goons have hurt themselves by these tactics. Many women who might have thought these people were compassionate sure saw the real deal when they walked into that clinic.

My hopes and wishes for you and your friend. Strength and peace to you both.

WHen I escorted for the clinic, I would only ever say one thing to them: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." They always shut right up and looked at me with a blank stare, like they had nothing to argue with.

And, for once, all my nights watching the 700 Club has paid off (know thy evemy!). Pat Robertson says that all sins are equal, whether it be telling a lie or murder (which they consider abortion). Since the Bible teaches us we are all sinners, and we are, that means that IF Christ considers abortion murder and therefore a sin, the woman is in the same boat as these holier-than-thou Christian sinners.

Furthermore, ONLY Christ can judge us for our sins NOT some overzealous bible thumper.

listen to that shit.

Bless you for taking her and helping her out. No matter what, deep down, she'll always know that you were her friend in a pinch.

I'm sure she loves you for helping her like you are! I hope you two are safe tomorrow!

But did you try to talk her into other options like adoption? I had a friend that went through the same thing. Tried to persuade her to have the baby or give it up for adoption (I even offered to adopt the baby). But she wanted an abortion, so I respected that. Luckily I didn't have to go with her to the clinic (her boyfriend went with her). It just wasn't the right time for her and I told her months after that she should be thankful that she had that option because back in the day it wasn't. Now she is married and have two lovely kids.

Good luck to your friend.

because we're SO SURE she has never even heard the word before. Girls who get pregnant and want abortions are just silly, ignorant twits. We have to educate them. How about a 6 month waiting period to be SURE they know all their options??

:sarcasm:

Like I said, working at this particular clinic in the past, I know the whole schebang. I sat her down tonight when she came over and told her that she owed it to herself to make the best decision for her and her future. That included a talk about adoption (and the many resources out there to help her, including me and my folks who would gladly take her in if her parents kicked her out), having the baby herself (same as adoption), and abortion - risks, etc.

She seems remarkable confident and sure that this is right for her. I will keep asking her up until she goes in if this is what she really wants - like I told her, at any time she can change her mind and we'll just go for some ice cream and figure out a plan. Whatever it is, we can always figure something out together.

Did I say that already?:-)

the bastards, I hate the protestors.

In 1992 when the Republican Convention came to Houston, we had two weeks in August of Clinic Defense, every woman kept her appointment.

And I would have the physical means to deck just about anyone in my path. These people are unspeakably cruel.

birthcontrol pills, was reduced to tears before we could get to her.

She had parked her car down the street and walked over and was jumped by 7 of the bastards, we had to carry her in she was so upset. I came inches of puttng my Army training to use, and I did training with 101st, I had to quit escort duty or hurt someone.

That is protected, and should be protected.

What I take issue with is, as anyone who has escorted for a clinic which provides abortions can tell you, the physical intimidation they exhibit on these poor girls there making a very difficult decision as it is. That, and the insanely hurtful and offensive things they say, too. Horrible. If you have a problem with abortion I understand and respect that. But you have no right to throw pig's blood on someone and tell them Jesus will make sure they burn in Hell.

Good thing she has a friend like you.

Take good care of her.

Redstone

KICKED, and NOMINATED!!!

:wtf:

I took several ladies, as asked, by the hand, to support them during their abortions. And no... since ya might be wondering... I wasn't the father. I was a Friend. I was a better friend apparently than the doofus I had to replace in their moment of need, but replace the doofus and fill the need I did.

Question Guys... How many instances of abortion, how many instances of women's rights, how many times have ya done the right thing man???

:evilfrown:

Men should be proactive in defending women's rights - it does affect you guys too! :)

Good for you for standing up for your female friends...no doubt it meant the world to them.

I know this may seem like I'm butting in where my nose doesn't belong, but I feel I must speak up.

Like most here, I am pro-choice, but I believe that choice must be made from a position of emotional stability and having clear knowledge of the consequences of one's actions, not by force from any outsider. From what you have posted, your friend is feeling pressure- real or imagined- from her parents to make this decision. That is not what it means to be for choice.

Therefore, I feel obligated to ask you to reconsider your influence on your friend and ask her to delay her decision until she has complete control of her emotions. If she still decides to go through with it, fine. Good for her. But, as a friend, you ought to bring her to a point where she can do so with a clear head.

I guess I'll butt out now.:)

She got pregnant on the pill, and immediately stopped taking the pill because she did consider carrying the pregnancy to term. She knows (because I told her tonight) that she is welcome to live with me if she wants to have the child and her parents won't accept her decision. I promised her and she knows that I and my parents will help her in whatever way we can and get her all the help we can from outside people, etc. She looked me dead in the eye and said she had given this decision much thought and knows this is the best choice for her.

Apparently, she's known about this for a few weeks, and only earlier this week made her final decision, so I'm fairly comfortable she is confident in making this decision for herself. I will keep asking her, up until she goes in for the surgery, if she is sure this is the choice she wants - I've already told her she can change her mind anytime and we will deal with it together. If there was any doubt in my mind that she was doing this for anyone but herself and what is best for her, I would urge her to reconsider, trust me :) I've known her since she was 11 years old though, and know when she is being honest with me, and I truly feel she is and is making the choice *she* (and no one else) thinks is best.

Again though, I will ask her (as will the clinic workers) up until she is sedated that she can change her mind at any time and we're all there for her if she makes that decision. She seems very confident in her decision though, so we'll see what happens.

could refuse to sign adoption papers or even worse want custody himself. If he is abusive he does not deserve a child.

Or he could just use the child to stay in this gal's life. I don't think anyone could be emotionally stable facing those choices.

Those idiots don't know and don't care, but you both do. As the Episcopalian says there is moral times for an abortion, remember that there are pro-choice churches like that to help, if you need some spiritual support. :hug:

too bad she doesn't have more accepting parents...THAT's what really sucks about this...

outside have no shame whatsoever or empathy for others. Don't they know this decision is already hard as it is? Can the people do something and call the police? Especially if they are stalking people!!!! Isn't that illegal or something?

Thankfully no one has ever followed me home, but other workers have had this happen (patients too). For some reason it doesn't fall under stalking in PA...not sure why. Some bogus loophole that, trust me, they ALLLL know about. They're all well aware of the precise wording of the laws so they are always within millimeters of breaking the law (or in some cases, they break the law without any problems). Good Christians, huh?

Are you in PA? Contact the Philadelphia chapter of NNAF.
They help fund abortions for women in need.

She can't afford it, so I'll be paying for it. NNAF is *wonderful* but I decided that since I can really afford it, I'll leave NNAF's funds for women who are truly in a desperate situation. So many of them are, unfortunately.

When the father is an abusive man, "good" options are even more limited for a pregnant woman. Keeping the baby or giving it up for adoption might not go as planned since he has a say.

Just wanted to mention what a counselor I worked with said. We were in a meeting and the subject of abortion came up. The woman is a church going, strongly religious woman and I wished it hadn't been brought up in front of her.
She surprised me. She said God knows people's situations and their hearts. She thought the soul connects to the baby early on, but knows nothing can destroy a soul, they are eternal. Not all pregnancies result in a living baby, whether it is miscarriage, abortion or still birth, All of those situations are hard, but none are meaningless, they all have a deep effect on one or more people. That might be the reason for the pregnancy...that soul has agreed to pop in and make that connection and do that job. That even if painful it is a gift of love.
She summarized that if abortion really felt like the best option, it was. To just honor the child, thank it for the visit and know you are sending the soul back to the light from which it came.
Now that is a religious view.

Thank you for sharing this...as a Christian, I feel the same way about this. I'm going to share this with her in a little while, she's sleeping now so maybe tomorrow I can show it to her. Thanks for sharing that :)

I moved here awhile back, I swear I moved into the Southern NC/SC bible belt. Different topic for another time.

You give her a great gift even if it's just a hand to hold.

I had one when I was 18 for the same reasons she did. birth controlled failed, b/f took to throwing me into walls, blackening eyes, a sprained wrist or two. Just when I was about to walk out, I found out I was pregnant. I had to decide if I wanted to bring a child into that life. A life where I would never be rid of him.

I chose freedom for myself. Coming from a place like that requires a tremendous amount of self reflection so mistakes are not repeated, and don't end up with another asshole like him. I didn't feel like in that situation I was safe. I felt my days were numbered eventually he would kill me and the child should I stayed and had it. In doing that all I would done was become an unfortunate statistic.

Bless you for being her shoulder and strength. You just remember when your walking her into that clinic, You are the light, those protesters are the darkness. Your leading her through all of that hate and anger.

But if you can't, remember to pop those hips as ya swing (get the body into the punch), keep the knucks of the index and middle fingers in line with wrist (to avoid breakage of the hand), and never lead with yer right (unless you are left handed).

Wish I could be there ... you are a good friend, that is clear, and I would be honored to cover your back. Let us know how it goes ... may you and your friend stay safe and well.

to go to he11.

Give your friend lots of love.
It's not an easy decision. Been there, done that. Yes I think about it.
Looking back, it was the right thing at that time. And I know a couple of women that decided to have the baby and give it up for adoption. They live with more guilt, more heartbreak than I do. Tell her to be strong.:hug:

Didn't I escort you into the clinic about 3 or 4 months ago?
(Make sure the woman you point at isn't obviously pregnant)

I don't know that I would make a good escort. I'd yell back at all the protestors.

and take deep breaths during the procedure. It helps a lot.

Good luck to you both. Ignore the assholes, it'll soon be over.

I know some may disagree, but I hope that she goes through with the procedure; she has made her decision and deserves support.

There is NOTHING worse that having a baby, where the father is abusive. Most states insist on joint custody now; even under the most dire circumstances, the birthfather is given visitation. Trust me, I clerk for a family law firm, and I'm no lawyer who can give legal advice, but I have a few thoughts as a concerned female member of this society.

A violent birthfather many times uses the whole situation to continue the abuse, and the child is always in great danger of being the victim of physical violence, possibly homicide, so that Birthfather can "show" Birthmother. And a birthfather has to consent to adoption (reliquishment of parental rights).

It is better to terminate the pregnancy in many cases, in terms of long-term mental health for the mother.

She has made her decision, now I'll send supportive healing energy her way.

Then ask them, if Bush is doing god's work in Iraq, then why haven't they assisted in doing god's work by enlisting in the military.

especially coming right after the break-up with her boyfriend, the father of her baby. Obviously she should not go back to an abusive boyfriend but I'm concerned that she hasn't given herself enough time to adjust to the big changes in her life, particularly to her pregnancy.

With both my pregnancies, I went through a period of adjustment to the reality of being pregnant, even though I was married and wanted each baby. I think most women go through this. It's quite natural to worry about being able to care for the child, to worry about what pregnancy and childbirth will be like. It's a big deal to have a child.

But it's a big deal to have an abortion, too. The experiences of some of my friends who had abortions were very troubling to me. Some women do suffer for years, maybe for the rest of their lives, because they chose to end their child's life. Women I have known were emotionally screwed up by abortion. It made me start to question the wisdom of abortion on demand for any reason, though I supported easing abortion restrictions back in the pre-Roe days. We went far beyond eased restrictions to abortion for any reason and I am pro-life today. Being a rational person, I don't support overturning Roe v. Wade, which would not end abortion, only end legal abortion . And I certainly don't protest at abortion clinics; I abhor the behavior you describe some protesters engaging in. Instead, I want there to be more and better education to prevent unplanned pregnancies and more and better support for mothers who choose life for their child.

I know from one of your posts later in the thread that your friend has thought about this for at least 3 weeks but that's not very long for a decision that will affect her for a long time, perhaps a life time. I hope you will encourage her to cancel her abortion for now and consult with a group or groups willing to help her continue her pregnancy and keep her child (or give him/her up for adoption if she prefers.) There are people who will help her and not be judgemental. If she finds out more about her options (and gives herself a bit more time to adjust to what's happened to her) and isn't convinced that having the baby is the better choice, she can still get an abortion. From what you've said, she's probably just in her second month of pregnancy now. She has time to stop and think some more, get more info, maybe tell her parents. Not many parents will really disown a pregnant daughter these days; more will help her. But once she gets the abortion, she can't go back.

"freedom" ,and should be supported, and not have doubts, or anyone else's beliefs forced on her.She is clearly making the best and most logical decision. I think the fact, that you think parents, that you don't even know, would be supportive , despite the fact that you have been informed otherwise by those who know them, is either outrageous, or very naive.Abortion under these circumstances is the best option. The girl is protecting herself and her future.It is best she do this NOW and not wait.The later she waits the more uncomfortable it would be for her.This only concerns her and she has made her decision.She is to be respected for her courage and not be patronized by others who think she can't know her mind.

"Knowing" women whose experiences troubled you and left them "screwed up" are not very convincing anecdotes to begin with, coming as they do from someone who is known to be very much anti-abortion. Even if you were one of the women who was "screwed up" after the termination of an ectopic pregnancy, you hardly present an objective or unbiased sample.

The person discussed in the OP may have thought about this particular situation for three weeks, but it is entirely possible that she has considered what she would do in such a circumstance for years. You don't know if she did or not, and to presume that she did not is insulting and demeaning.

(and I've counseled hundreds), the only two who had emotional problems and depression were one whose child was wanted but would have died days if not hours after birth, and the other was someone who wanted the baby but was pressured into abortion by her Fundie parents who couldn't stand the thought of their pregnant child.

So there you have it. The only two people I've ever met in my life who were "screwed up" after abortion were people who wanted their baby but had to choose abortion for reasons other than what the woman herself wanted. I still get thank you cards and notes from many of the patients I've seen over the years, thanking me for my support and the support of the clinic, and telling me how well they are doing. Very, very, very few women (if any) who chose abortion THEMSELVES and FOR THEMSELVES have emotional problems afterwards.

that's EXCELLENT! Did you make that up? I am SO stealing that. Such a wonderfully pithy way of putting it!

I'm a HUGE 'pithy' fan.

The very second I found out I was (unfortunately) pregnant my decision was made. As someone upthread pointed out, it's not like women who are sexually active haven't given some thought to what they would do if they get pregnant. 3 weeks is AMPLE time to mull this over. YOu say once she gets an abortion she can't go back--but how about having the child? That's not exactly undoable either.

Not everyone that has an abortion regrets their choice.

Three weeks is plenty of time to consider her options. I have known many women who have had to make this choice (abort,adopt,or raise) and regardless of which way they decide, some will second guess the choice forever. Most don't because they are mature women who understand the consequences. The saddest second guessers are those who chose to continue the pregnancy and raise the child and then regret that choice but feel trapped by that difficult to revoke decision.

There are support groups to help get through unplanned pregnancies but unless the goal is adoption, you are still left to face 18 years of full responsibility for a child with very little support. Society doesn't support voluntarily surrendering your child after a year or two unless you have been willfully abusing the child.

As I said before, it's nice of you to share your perspective. I think that all females should be well versed in the consequences of each choice long before the choice is faced.

... boyfriend/child's father (who would likely have shared custody) would inflict on this woman & her child if she were to choose to continue her pregnancy... what an awful choice to be confronted with, no matter what the woman's decision is... a decision which is none of my or anyone else's business.

This woman is fortunate to have a supportive, non-judgmental friend in friesianrider.

If 3 weeks is "not very long" (your words), what is "long" enough? A month? 2 months? She was already 4 weeks when she found out. So should she wait another month? 2? 6? It gets more costly financially the longer you wait, plus it is more demanding on her body the longer she waits, both during the pregnancy and the abortion.

Your situation explaining an "adjustment" period is not really relevent to this situation. You may have needed time to adjust to the thought, but you were also relatively secure in a marriage, with a good husband,a and of course you knew you wanted the baby. My friend is in a very different situation than yours.

The poster to whom you are responding is well-known for being anti-abortion, no matter what the situation (unless it is her own ectopc pregnancy).

3 weeks isn't long enough? If she waits any longer than it will be "too long" as the fetus will be more developed and "late term" abortion.

I really fucking can't stand people who insist in injection their opinions into this. My friend thought 3 damn weeks about this, and trust me, considered every option. I doubt if she had waited 3 weeks and decided to keep the baby this poster would be saying "gosh, maybe you should think about it a little longer."

or are you more concerned about YOUR moral objections to abortion?
you know nothing about her or her life really, except what's been posted here. you have no idea how she will or won't feel after the abortion, or if the fetus will even develop into a baby. she might miscarry, for example.
she's made her decision, and it is HER decision, not YOUR decision.

And remember what Ellen Goodman said about the exceptions for "rape, incest and me."

I am constantly amazed how people think they should have a say in how other people run their lives. To the people who say "She should think about it longer" etc, etc, - it's none of your business. She's 20 years old and has made the decision. Would you like to step up and financially support her and the baby or maybe even adopt the child? You have no idea what her parents would do, because you don't know them.

Anyway, you are a good friend for standing by her like this.
Just ignore the protestors or maybe ask them how many "babies" they have adopted. Good luck to you and your friend.

Right. After they've guilt-tripped her, hectored her about her sex life, fed her a host of religious right propaganda about abortion and how single cells are sentient and aware from the moment sperm meets egg, and given her the "good news" that Jesus will love her just so long as she keeps her little mouth shut and her legs crossed...

...Yeah, they'll help her and not be judgemental.

that shows a much more developed child moving around and the promise that they have perfect (fundie) families that would love to adopt (and pay them big bucks) for her baby (unless she or the father is brown, in which case they'll just give her the anti-abortion speech and maybe a referral to social services.)

There weren't any waiting periods over here when I found out I was pregnant, and from finding out to making my decision, it was less than a week for me. The last thing I wanted at the time was for a bunch of complete strangers with their own agendas trying to 'encourage' me to continue the pregnancy. The problem with any of those folk is that they're convinced that what they want is better for the individual woman than what she wants. What I found helped me most with the decision making was that I took off by myself to the coast for a weekend and worked out what was best for *me*, not what was best for assorted family members and friends. But I've found that giving the advice to go off alone and do some thinking is met with great hostility by anti-choicers I've encountered on the internet, because that's the last thing they want anyone to do...


Violet...

I'm glad you have training as an escort. Use it and detatch from the friendship while you go in and out of the clinic.

Stand by your friend whatever she decides to do. Offer whatever support she needs.

As to those protesters remind them of that classic verse: JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED. Repeat it like a broken record over their ranting but don't give into the temptation to kick any of their butts (although they may deserve it).

Best wishes to the both of you, you have a difficult day ahead of you.

With metta :hug:

I'm sure your friend appreciates you, and STRAIGHT TO HELL with those psycho protesters. Those people are nuts. We have them in my town too. The devil's minions.

:scared:

Best of luck to you and your friend.

are with you both. :hug:

you'll both be in my thoughts and prayers.

I used to volunteer as a clinic escort too. Maybe the asshats will stay home for a change.

You know, actually, it doesn't matter what situation the girl finds herself in. Abortion should be easy to obtain NO MATTER the reason. The reason should not even enter into the abortion debate. Do we have to give reasons for other medical procedures or life choices?

and hurry back home. Good thoughts to you from me and the cats.

many years ago. My one regret is that I didn't pay enough attention to the aftermath. We were both in college and I don't think the decision was particularly tough for her to make, under the circumstances. We were young and inexperienced and didn't necessarily understand that things aren't necessarily over when they are over. She felt that she did the right thing, but nevertheless I feel today that there was a significant amount of depression that we didn't really regcognize. To us the challenge was to get over the physical effects and then everything would be OK. Avoiding detection was a huge element in this. Once she recovered physically I didn't appreciate the fact that she was exhibiting signs of depression. Not that I would have known what to do if I HAD recognized it at age 21. Back then, depression was something that crazy people had, not something that appeared to normal people in everyday life. To this day, 30 years later, I regret not being more on the ball about this.

I had a good friend once that did the very same for me. Lots of listening, lots of hugs, no judgement.

Hope all goes as well as possible tomorrow.

Those freaks are nuts

But as a mother of a teenage daughter who was scared to death to tell me she was pregnant, I will tell you. Ask her to talk to her mother first--especially if they have a close relationship, she most likely will not react the way your friend thinks she will.
My daughter thought I would flip out.
Honestly, I would thought I would to.
But...my only question to my daughter was to ask her what she wanted to do. I never got angry. Most women who are honest with themselves and has a teenaged daughter, can also say they too had sex at that age.
I will tell you. My grandchild is one of the best blessings.
So if it is at all possible...ask her to talk to her mom before she actually goes through with the abortion--if nothing else but for support from a source she didn't think she could count on.
Sending wishes and good karma her way. Tough decisions.
It's a good thing she has a friend like you.:hug:

As a clinic escort, I admire you very much.

As a friend, I admire you even more.

:hug:

The last thing you need is someone showing up at the door of the car's owner (you or your friend).

You're being a great friend to her. I wish you both the best. Big hugs to your friend. I have NO idea what she's going through, but I know it has to be the most difficult thing in the world.

Let 'em fuck with Hertz or Avis.

on the internet. I would not be happy one bit if my "friend" outed my abortion on the internet.

people have lost jobs for posting stuff on the internet, thinking they were safe.

You think someone going to fire this woman for having an abortion?

Some things are private. Well no I take that back. Thanks to the internet, you're friend can now go on any forum and post your problems, your proceedures, your financial situation and more.

I think just last week a DU member got fired for posting on this site. Yes people get fired for "posting" stuff from work, and come to think about it, say this girl worked for a prolife right-winger, and found out about her proceedure. She might just get fired, and she couldn't do a damn thing about it. Shit, some pharmacists won't give out birth control pills, can you imagine working for an asshole like that?

The poster who was fired posted his home city, the venue name, and the company name.

What can you tell me about my friend aside from her situation? Do you know her name? Do you know where she lives? Do you know my name? Do you know where I live? Do you know the boyfriend's name? Do you know where he lives? Do you know what clinic we went to? Someone even said "must be western PA" and I didn't respond as to what GENERAL location it is. Do youthink I'm dumb enough to give out our Social Security numbers on here? :eyes:

Some people are foolish enough to give out too much information and they get nailed for it. I was very careful not to and despite your best efforts to turn this into an argument, EVERYONE here but you has been supportive and helpful to me and to her. I think you just need to chill out a little.

maybe you should read the "Mission Statement" for Central PA Planned Parenthood, because the websites for Bucks & Western PA are not yet up and working.

Here's the statement on privacy & rights of each individual.

The mission of Planned Parenthood of Central Pennsylvania is:

* to provide comprehensive primary and reproductive health care services in settings which preserve and protect the essential privacy and rights of each individual.

I don't think they would be thrilled to hear a volunteer is "seeking advice" on the internet regarding an individual who just had an abortion.

I hear what you're saying, but I will leave it to the OP to presume he or she is being discrete-- and not disclosing anyone's personal information willy-nilly or indiscriminately.

Posted the city, venue, and company he worked for. Like I said, a whole 5 or 6 people here know my FIRST name only. Even if they knew who I was personally, they'd have no idea who my friend was. I do have more than one friend, believe it or not.

And like I said, she knows I wrote it here because she and I read some of the very supportive responses together - I'm sorry this was yours.

you took her "abortion" and made it about you in your post. You feel sorry for her, you helped pay for it, you hope you don't run into a protester.

Did you get her permission prior to writing about her pain, embarrassment and financial situation, or did you tell her after the fact?

Notice how most of the responses were about "you" being a good friend. Millions of women have abortions, everyday a women get abortions in this country. It's a private decision between a woman and her doctor. Isn't that what we tell the wing nuts everyday?

If a friend of mine did this I would be furious. She's 20 years old, you had no right to do this unless you had prior permission.

"...you took her "abortion" and made it about you in your post. You feel sorry for her, you helped pay for it, you hope you don't run into a protester."

Yeah...and what's your point? She's not posting this, I am. I need support too - it is tough for me as well (although of course not as much as for her). :shrug:

Did you get her permission prior to writing about her pain, embarrassment and financial situation, or did you tell her after the fact?

See below.

"Notice how most of the responses were about "you" being a good friend. Millions of women have abortions, everyday a women get abortions in this country. It's a private decision between a woman and her doctor. Isn't that what we tell the wing nuts everyday?"

I came here for support - for me and for her. It is tough, and I have benefitted from the advice and support on here, and so has my friend who has read most of the posts.

"If a friend of mine did this I would be furious. She's 20 years old, you had no right to do this unless you had prior permission."

And like I've said many times, she KNEW. She was okay with it because she needed the advice as much as me, and she knew no one would know it was her. She knew before I intended to do it, she knew it AS I was doing it, and she knew it AFTER I did it. How dare you judge me like I'd just go blabbing to anyone about friends of mine who have an abortion. Where the hell do you get off? You think I'd go through all of this with her, step by step, just to screw her over by posting her name and home address on a public message board?

Why not ASK if she knew about this before making such accusatory and stupid comments.

Good grief, how old are you that you need support and advice for something that apparantly you volunteer to do on a regular basis for women you don't know.

Here's a newsflash not everybody on DU lines up and agrees with a fellow member.

You were a good friend to drive her, you were a good friend to help pay, you were a good friend for taking care of her and driving her. Seeking advice and pats on the back for sharing someone elses abortion details on a very public forum is not being a good friend.

When she's older, married and has kids, she will not think kindly of this.

Maybe she won't ever be married and have kids.
Not everybody is married and has kids................

I did not use any names (she isn't my only friend you know), and a whole 5 or 6 people on this board know my first name only. She knows full well I wrote about this, as I read her some of the nice comments people had - it made her feel wonderful so many people who don't know her support her choice.

at clinics serving the black community, why is that I wonder? I guess I just answered my own question.

I am so glad to read of a good, feminist Christian, helping another woman to get a needed abortion and comforting her. YES, we really are the majority; NO, it is not "contradicting" anything. Sometimes this is the thing God calls you to do--sometimes this is exactly what the suffering victim needs in the world.