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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:14 AM
Original message
The Straight Dope on Smaller Tactical Nukes.....
This site is a must read for those interested in knowing just how mad king george really is.


http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/page.cfm?pageID=1170
RNEP would produce tremendous radioactive fallout: A nuclear earth penetrator cannot penetrate deep enough to contain the nuclear fallout. Even the strongest casing will crush itself by the time it penetrates 10-30 feet into rock or concrete. For comparison, even a one-kiloton nuclear warhead (less than 1/10th as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb) must be buried at least 200-300 feet to contain its radioactive fallout.<3> The high yield RNEP will produce tremendous fallout that will drift for more than a thousand miles downwind. As, Linton Brooks, the head of the National Nuclear Security Administration told Congress in April, "the laws of physics will far enough to trap all fallout. This is a nuclear weapon that is going to be hugely destructive over a large area" if it goes off underground.

RNEP could kill millions of people: A simulation of RNEP used against the Esfahan nuclear facility in Iran, using the software developed for the Pentagon, showed that 3 million people would be killed by radiation within 2 weeks of the explosion, and 35 million people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India would be exposed to increased levels of cancer-causing radiation (see Figure 1).<4>



http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/page.cfm?pageID=1170

letter
Scientists' Letter to the Senate on Mini-Nukes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 19, 2003

Dear Senator, as scientists and engineers with long experience on nuclear weapons and defense issues, we are writing to urge you to retain the Spratt-Furse law banning development leading to the production of nuclear weapons with yields of less than five kilotons.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. We're not going to nuke anybody...
we just like to say we are to scare people.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Well, I'm scared... are you scared??? I'm really scared.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Are you Iranian?
THAT'S who whom the message is directed. If the administration didn't want Iran to get the message, do you really think that we would be hearing about this?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm Amurkan... and I'm scared because these bastards need a
nuclear excuse to nuke Iran.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Well, be scared if it works for you...
...I'm not getting worked up because we're not going to be nuking anybody.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm not as scared now.... I kinda believe you.... but then there's
this.... so I am going to remain just a little scared.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2839operation_northwds.html

Operation Northwoods
The first comprehensive published account of the 1962 documents, is contained in James Bamford's book on the National Security Agency, Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency, released in late Spring of this year. Bamford concluded that the Joint Chiefs of Staff "proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba."

Bamford's account is based on documents which were ordered declassified by the Assassination Records Review Board, and subsequently released by the National Archives within the past few years. EIR has obtained the relevant documents and has independently reviewed them, and we can confirm that there is no exaggeration in Bamford's description of these documents as containing proposals for U.S. military agencies to carry out terrorist actions against the United States and attacks on U.S. military facilities.

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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Northwoods? It was conceived over 40 years ago and was never implemented.
Yes, somebody 40 years ago came up with a nutty idea. That's all it ever was, an idea.

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:52 AM
Original message
We are not short of nutty ideas since 911.... and we are actually
trying to produce smaller tactical nukes.. for what, I don't know.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. True, but they don't involve nukes.
We've been developing small tactical nukes for decades. We've never actually used one, though. The biggest physical is the inability to control where the fallout goes. Unless we can control that, we're not going to nuke anybody.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Well then.... there sure is an awful lot of scientists weighing in on
this issue.... I'm supposed to believe that this is a "I'm gonna huff and puff and blow your house down" sort of thing..... well maybe.... maybe not. I'm sure we could give a crap about fallout when our "security" is "theoretically" in jeopardy.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The problem is that the stuff blows around. We could poison Saudi Arabia
or Jordan or Russia. There's no way we're going to do it because we have so many non-nuclear solutions available.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Therein lies the problem.... we have too many frigging military
thingies.... and not enough thingies that would actually help engender peace in the world.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Agreed.
Imagine if we had spent $200B on alternative energy, poverty and education instead of a war.....
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Naaah. We would never do that...oh, wait..Hiroshima? Nagasaki?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That WAS 60 years ago...
The fallout (both physical and political) would be immense. There's no way we're going to use nuclear weapons...probably not even if we were nuked first.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. famous last words
I hate to say that I believe Bushco is more than capable, maybe even fantasizing about it as we speak.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. See above for why I really don't believe it will happen.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. one name people should look up
if they think it couldn`t happen and why it will -herman kahn
http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=HermanKahn
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. As I have repeatedly said.
the challenge of creating a sucessful fission bomb that can penetrate
through hardened concrete, or even significant depths of earthwork for that matter, is akin to designing a Rolex watch that will keep accurate time after being driven through a brick wall with a hammer.

This is the mother of all military wet dreams, and as we are as likely to achieve it as I am to experience a threesome with Rachel McAdams and Isla Fisher from The Wedding Crashers. What it will do is consume money like a humvee sucks gasoline.

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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. BushCo is insane enough to try
The question is whether those who have to actually launch are sane enough to disobey orders.
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