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God's trying to tell them something.(Boy Scouts & bush)

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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:26 AM
Original message
God's trying to tell them something.(Boy Scouts & bush)
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 07:33 AM by warrior1
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/28/scouts.jamboree/index.html

Hundreds of Boy Scouts fall ill from heat

Bush visit postponed due to weather

(CNN) -- A Boy Scout National Jamboree marred by the deaths of four people weathered another blow Wednesday in Virginia when about 300 Scouts and adults suffered symptoms resulting from the 100-degree afternoon heat, a spokesman for the organization said.

Thousands of Scouts had gathered in Fort A.P. Hill, Virginia, for the opening ceremonies, which were canceled because of "heat-related health concerns" and the threat of severe thunderstorms.

The heavy rain, accompanied by lightning, also forced President Bush to postpone his planned speech to the Jamboree. The speech was rescheduled for Thursday evening, the White House said.

snip
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Anything for a f**king photo op...
And then he blows them off.




Paramedics caring for heat-stricken Boy Scouts
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. More like ignoring science
:)
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, the memorial itself was for recipients of the Darwin Awards
Scout LEADERS hoisting a tent pole onto a power line?? These boys are just the victims of bad leadership all the way around.
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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. wait, I haven't read the entire story.
I heard powerlines and pitching tents. Are you telling me they were USING the powerlines to prop up a tent? If that was the case Darwin award indeed.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Related thread: I guess God does NOT want scouts using government property
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. or maybe God just doesn't like properties ...
...named after Civil War Confederate Generals?

Truly though, this says more about bad adult leadership than God.

My heart breaks that Smirky didn't get his photo-op.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. NBC just said that they succumbed from the heat waiting for Bush. n/t
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. sad what has become of Scouting....
I'm a former Scout, loved it, great experience. Ever since Boy Scouting became synonymous with right wing Christian "values" it has gone downhill. There was always a conservative, nationalistic even slightly militaristic flavor to the Boy Scouts, but it didn't overwhelm the basic goal of teaching boys how to become better men.

The annual Jamboree tends to be a huge clusterfuck anyway, but this one really demonstrates how bad the leadership has become.

The adults being electrocuted was tragic but also ridiculously stupid. I think that says volumes of the type of men leading the Scouts these days. The heat stress problems were another clear example of plain old stupid adult leadership. Scouting has become a refuge for too many frustrated Christian conservatives. These people are fucking stupid and it shows when tragic shit happens on their watch.

I mourn for Boy Scouting. There are still good Boy scout troops. before you let your son near one, however, meet the adult leaders and get a feel for what they are like. If that troop is run by a bunch of conservative fundies, run like your hair was on fire.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Scouting History
As in so much of American history, race has and continues to play an important role in Scouting. Race was as a factor in early American Scouting, especially in the South where early Scouters were determined to prevent black boys from entering the movement. The fact that the Baden Powell's Boys Scouts eventually decided upon an inclusive international approach to Scouting meant that to participate that an exclusive white program could not be mauntained, despite the attitudes of many in the movement. William D. Boyce who founded the Scouting movement in America was adament that it should be open to boys of all races and creeds--but his view was not shared by many. The BSA and YMCA alike were guided by adult volunteers who held socially progressive organizational goals. While their were some socially conservative elements interested in organizing a more overtly milataristic organization, the role the YMCA played in the early years of the BSA helped to imprint it with the YMCA stamp of social progressiveness. Enrollment patterns gave preference to middle-class boys in the early going. This was because these boys were the most interested and their parents could afford the program, all making organization easier. Later, both the BSA and YMCA reached out to lower-class youths, but with less favorable results. The leadership alternatingly displayed condescension and defeatism toward these poorer boys, and these youths often found the BSA and YMCA culturally alien. The BSA faced an even more difficult challenge when it came to black youthm especially in the South. Even in the north, Scouting in America from the beginning was a highly segregated activity. This is in part because many of the early sponsors were schools (many of which were segregated by law or demographic patterns) and churches (except for the Catlolics are among the most segregated institutions in America). Until the 1970s, fewer blacks than whites have particiapted in Scouting. A factor here is cost. We suspect that that there are other factors as well, some relating to why Scouting has had less appeal to the working-class in England. Many of the blacks that have participated have done so in largely black troops. This continues to be the case today. In fact Scouting is one of the most segregated youth activity in America. This is not because of BSA policy, but because of econonomic, cultural, and demographic trends in America.

<snip>

The BSA in the 1910s

The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) was founded by William D. Bouce and several associates in 1910. Boyce was a businessman with an interest in youth work. His critical controbution to Scouting was to organize the BSA as a business. He incorporated the organization, choosing Washington, DC, rather than Chicago to emphasize its national character. He recruited key youth professionals, primarily from the YMCA, to design and operate the program, and he provided essential funding for the fledgling organization. Important decissions were made about Scouting in the 1910s which had a major impact on its character and success. There were many competing visions of the movement with varying influences including commercial, altruistic, patriotic, militaristic, social, religious, racial, and many others. The American Scout movement was relatively small in the 1910s before World War I (1914-18). The movement grew significantly beginning with the War when a patriotic fervor swept the country. The movement was to grow even more in the properous 1920s. Increasingly by the late 1910s it was becoming an excepted part of an American boyhood, at least in small towns and cities, to join the Boy Scouts. The organization became increasingly popular throughout the country and was supported by both schools and churches.
Black Youth

The character builders who so energentically approached the organization of white middle-class boys were not at all as interested in orgazing black boys. There were several reasons for this. Black boys were undeniable a much more difficult challenge. The black population was primarily located in the rural South and very poor. A variety of factors affected which children worked. The most significant was of course social class. Most of the children that worked were children from poor families that had to work. Their parents could not afford to send them to school and often needed their maeger earnings just to provide meer sustanance. There were, however, other factors such as demographics. Rural children were needed to work on the farm. Urban children were more likely to be sent to school. A major factor in the United States was race. Note that in images of child labor during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, black children (especially the boys) are almost always only seen as agricultural labor.
Racial Dilema

The povery and rural location posed major difficulties in themselves, but more was involved. The early 20th century character builders were white and even the most progressive of them were affected by a kind of "casual racism" that made it less urgent for them to focus on black youth. Many were unsure about organizing black youth in the north, organozing in the south was a virtual impossibility. The Southern white Jim Crow power-structure on whom the character builders needed to rely to orgnize white boys, was not just unconcerned about balcks, they were vehemently opposed to any effort at organizing them. To have challenged white leadership would have emperiled the organization of white boys in the South. Here it is easy to be critical. But would have it really been beneficial if the largely northern leadership of the BSA and YMCA had insisted on a more racially inclusive program? The result sure would have been that the BSA would have never received a Congressional charter and a probably a separate highly racist southern association would have been established which may well have appaeled to some northern whites. It may have also made it more difficult to eventually organize black BSA troops in the South. The various aternatives are difficult to assess, but in the final analysis BSA and YMCA leaders were simplly not that interested in black youth to jepoardize their national initaitives. America in the early 20th century was a rasist society and it can not be expected that the BSA, YMCA, and other youth groups would have somehow been unaffected by the prevailing racism.

More:
http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/youth/org/sco/country/us/race/uss-race.htm


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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I have very rarely refused my sons anything, and one thing was becoming
Boy Scouts because of the bigotry of the organization. You are citing individual troops but it goes to the core.
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Divine Ms Q Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. my two cents
First off...my son is at the Jamboree...and I haven't gotten any emergency phone calls, so I guess that's good news.

Second...I am disgusted by the press calling Bush's appearance at the Jambo part of a memorial service. His appearance was scheduled WAY in advance. We knew about it in March when my son attended a pre-Jamboree meeting. I think the President tries to make an appearance at all Jamborees.

Third...I applaud the one who posted "get to know your troop's leaders." With BSA, the rules and regulations for safety are there. It's up to the leaders to teach and enforce. My son is a Life Scout, and when the Scout from Montana fell into the Yellowstone River (they still haven't found him, a month later), my son could repeat verbatim all of the rules and regulations that were violated in that incident. So, what that tells me is that the adult leadership in his troop have done a very good job of training and teaching him about safety!

BSA has a lot of problems. I have many issues with some of the program's statements. However, I still see a lot of good in the program, and have watched my son grow and flourish. He still believes heavily in the program and still wants to continue (he's only got his project left, and then he's an Eagle Scout). He's also a very left-wing liberal, who sees himself as an Agnostic (but he's not telling his Eagle Board that... B-) )
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Scouting does have its warts
Like most people. However, you said it very well. Having been happily left my entire life, Scouting's core values are something I'm very proud that I'm teaching my open-minded son by participating in our local troop very hands-on.

Someday, Scouting is going to have to come to grips with the fact they have no integrity when out of one side of its mouth it says to believe in God (and you know they mean a Judeo/Christian God--I doubt seriously they would approve Goddess worship), who sent a Son who said, "Love one another," and out of the other side of its mouth spews bigotry against gay people. Someday . . .
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. I agree with you, but
feel sad that he has to 'closet' his spiritual beliefs in order to attain Eagle.

It brings back my having to closet my homosexuality in order to progress through the Board of Review process to Eagle. In retrospect, the award doesn't mean much to me today.
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Kalish Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. global warming biting them in the ass
fucking fine by me...

you vote for Bush, you do moron things, you suffer for it...

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Lighten up Francis...
These are kids who were getting sick...none of them voted for anybody!!!

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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. Cool....the Jerry Falwell argument! (nt)
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. If you can't take the heat, get out of the Bush!
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:34 AM by kenny blankenship
The Garden of Eden was ever the site of a harsh struggle for survival where the fittest reigned over Earth in airconditioned helicopters and the weaker perished to become TV-dinners for the kings of beasts or HabiTrails for worms.

This episode isn't an example of Global Warming brought on by Man's selfish excesses, an unbalancing of the age-old harmonies of Sun and Seas, now threatening the survival of the old and young, rather it's the dawning of a New Republican ecology. It's a natural THINNING of the merit-badged herd; and since some live and some die it's a good thing! The meritorious shall live--or alternately the living shall be judged meritorious by the luck of remaining alive. Nature was grossly inefficient. Under old Nature it could take aeons for species to go extinct. Republican Nature will be more efficient by any measure, whole phyla will perish overnight. It used to be said of aboriginal peoples that "nothing they used was allowed to be wasted"; but on the contrary--almost everything around them was wasted by not being used! Under Republican Nature, Adam and the Lord of Creation shall be as one and nothing on earth will suffer the fate of underexploitation. The strong shall inherit the earth from the weak within the space of a single credit cycle and then manure the soils with their redundant corpses. Come on now, Natural Selection is supposed to be something that all liberals love. So hail the victors and piss on the fallen!

(Isn't it kind of funny that the jamboree was a memorial for four TROOP LEADERS who died because they pitched their tent(s) under some power lines? I mean seriously, isn't there some good USDA approved irony to be mined there?)
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. 2 killed by lightning in Cali yesterday
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