Another poll: Middle finger, thumb or pen?

Of course, I'd donate $50 to DU anyway, but sorry guys, it is a Thumb.

High Def Tivo of Leno Show + High Def Screen + Slow Motion of Video = Thumb. I wanted to believe too, but facts are facts.

You try putting your hand up like you're flipping somebody off and see how high you can get your thumb. I doesn't work.

Give a thumbs up and don't press your thumb to your index finger.

A thumb as seen from the back. Hadn't thought of that. Weird perspective.

Definitely not the finger though

He has his wrist turned slightly forward from the thumbs-up position, and his thumb doesn't actually look longer, it looks THINNER than it is due to the pixelation.

Stick your arm out. Make a fist and stick your thumb straight out. Tilt your arm about 15 degrees up. Tilt you wrist a tiny bit back as well.

You wrist looks small, your thumb looks propotionally larger, ergo people mistake it for a middle finger (like I did for 10 hours today)

Once you see it is slow motion and higher resolution there is no denying it.

As much as I wish it was the middle finger, after watching the video a few times I'm convinced it is his thumb.

Of course, if it was the middle finger, it would not be out of character, and no doubt, he wouldn't end up taking any heat for it.

I take heart in knowing that his holding up his thumb makes no more sense than his holding up his middle finger. George W. Bush is an idiot. Dog bites man. No news here.

Rotate your hand with thumb up so you can see knuckles on both sides, now rotate fist downward - makes the thumb look really long.

They can be 8 " long.

Bush's thumb.

There is no way his wrist is that small from behind (as it would be if that were his middle finger). No way.

His hand is positioned the wrong way for it to be his finger. If that was the back of his hand, the left side should go out, not curve in. It would be quite alien and skinny if that were the back of his hand.

It looks too short to be his thumb, and it's in the wrong position to be his thumb as well.

A pen.

Just from that picture, I can only make a guess.

But at that angle, you wouldn't see that much 'thumb' as it would be tilted too far back to appear that long.

With special attention to the span of the metacarpals, one can only conclude (from this image) that the appropriate extension of the thumb would result in a more narrow profile of the hand than what is depicted.

This is fun though... Kind of like watching the freepers discuss 'superscript'. (not that I'm suggesting that anyone here is wrong... but I would need to see better footage, er, umm... handage to be certain.)

Since there doesn't seem to be a "definitive" finger/thumb thread anymore, and since I need to get in my 2 cents before I get to bed, here are what I think are the three key frames in the sequence, starting with one close to The Shot that has been posted most often. These are three consecutive frames showing Bush dropping his arm. As he lowers it, you see the twist in his wrist and his thumb extending toward his body. As that hand drops, you can clearly see the back of his knuckles and the thumb clearly to the left of them.

Let the debate rage, but I've made up my mind.

Thumb.

Still would love to see the actual video in hi-def.

For now, the angle just doesn't seem right for a casual 'thumbs up'.

Give it a try... see if you can mimic that same profile with a thumbs up and get a shot of it from the same rear angle.

I'll bet it would be tricky.

That doesn't mean that W doesn't know how to make a thumbs up look like the bird... what do you think frat boys practice?

All I've got to go on is the QuickTime on this site and my hunch based on what looks like a natural body movement. Still frames -- hard to interpret. Continuous motion -- much easier to see what looks normal.

That third frame.

on your shit, folks. Those of you who voted for the middle finger- you're all wrong.

That's clearly his thumb. You, and *I*, may WANT to believe that that is his middle finger, but it's not. You're letting what you want get in the way of the facts. That's ignorant, and I'm not afraid to stand up to it.

To begin with, the wrist is way too thin to be the back view. It's a *maximum* of two inches across, probably less, in the picture, which is way, way too small. That's the side view of his wrist.

Further, the fleshy, bottom part of the thumb is visible on the left side, with the knuckles of his fingers visible to the left of that. The top goes straight across, as it is his index finger- notice that there would be much more variable height, there, if they were individual knuckles. But they aren't his knuckles. Still further, one can also see that the width and *curvature* of the hand itself is incorrect if it was his middle finger- where's the thumb's knuckle on the left, at the very least? Giving the middle finger, can you hide your thumb's bottom knuckle on the left side? I sure can't. Where is it?

Again, the right index knuckle can be seen on the upper right, along with some discoloration due to the shadows created by the fleshy part of his hand in between his thumb and carpals raising in the "thumbs-up" position below that knuckle. Further proof- that's his thumb.

Also, as far as the length of the digit that is rising up, there- many have asked how a thumb could be that long. It isn't any longer than is expected. It just looks to be thinner than it is, due to the pixelation, and by proportion, longer than it should be. In fact, I would ask those who believe it is the middle finger why it isn't LONGER than it is- if that's a middle finger, it's awful stubby, not to mention misplaced on the hand. When I put my middle finger up, it goes much higher than that, in relation to the rest of the hand.

And, finally- what makes more sense in the *context* of the situation? Someone had just asked him about CAFTA getting signed/passing through Congress. Does giving the thumbs up to the person who asked the question, in front of the cameras and a number of national officials, or flipping them off make more sense, there?

That is most definitely his thumb. To be honest, it's embarassing for me to see that many people on DU would rather form their opinion in a situation like this by what they want to see, rather than on the actual facts. I've clearly shown, here, that it's his thumb. We should "come to terms" with that.

I was easily able to recreate that angle with my hand and the flesh in front is clearly attached to the digit in the pic meaning it HAS to be his thumb. I was shocked how many want it to be the middle finger - heck I wanted it to be true, but I'm a facts kinda person - I will not support unsubstantiated stuff woithout good evidence - that rule applies here.

TO: President George W. Bush

FROM: Karl Rove, Senior President Adviser

RE: Thumbs Up Salute

Mr. President,

When sticking out your thumb for the "Thumbs Up" salute, do NOT do it quickly - make sure it is out long enough such that it can't be misinterpreted.

(Your mannerisms coach will work with you regarding this tomorrow)

Yours,

Karl

I'm not so sure either your assesment or mine is right just yet.

It could very well be that many here are taking their character impressions (as well as past video evidence) into subjective consideration.

I'm inclined to believe those that state they have seen the whole thing in high-def, but I also refuse to come to an absolute conclusion based on second-hand reports... that's why I joined DU in the first place.

So until there is more to go on, I see too many knuckles to call that a thumbs-up just yet.

(I gotta admit this is fun though.)

and came to exactly the same conclusion, with almost exactly the same explanation as you.

Way to thin at the wrist to be a back view of the hand. We're talking alien hand here if that's not his thumb.

Thumb or Middle Finger - because that's all we really can do, as we wait until the fall - middle of October - when Fitzgerald probably (though may not) will grace us with some juicy, impeachment-driving indictments. And no one can know whether it's going to happen or not.

And it feels like I felt LAST year - waiting for the autumn, waiting for "the Fall" of He Who Must Not Be Named -- cautiously optmimistic that Kerry would win. Dammit!

Either it's a pen, like a dry-erase marker, or it's a warped-looking thumb. You are seeing a middle finger because you WANT TO SEE A MIDDLE FINGER in a person you (and I) loathe beyond words.

But it's still NOT a birdie!

The hand is in the wrong position for it to be the middle finger, but it's hard to tell whether or not it's in the classic "thumbs-up" position. My guess is that Dubya was trying to flip off the press and forgot which finger to use. :D

Doesn't make him a bastard, he still is, but that's a thumb, people.

This is the part that convinced me: look at the width of his wrist. Just LOOK at that. I have tiny wrists and if you are looking at them front on, they are at least 3-3 1/2 inches across. That wrist is 1-2 inches across. Which means no WAY are we looking at it front on. We are looking at the side of his wrist.

Hold up your hand with your middle finger up and turn it so that the SIDE of your wrist is facing you. If he was doing THAT, you'd see the loop his thumb and index finger would create in flipping the bird and it would be a different hand shape than what we're seeing.

Now do a thumbs up, but turn your wrist so that you are looking at the side. Hold it high above you. Your thumb now looks longer.

Then there are the shots of him bringing his hand down. That nailed it for me. If I had any doubt before, those shots killed those doubts. He still has his thumb out as he's lowering his hand, you can tell it clearly.

There's a hell of a lot worse to nail this fucker on than this.

showed it tonight (7-29) as Jay Leno showed it. And even though Keith said it is a thumb, he had too say that I suppose, he showed it over and over --- Bush flipped off the press with his middle finger. We know he behaves this way. He has done this in the past while being video taped. It is in his nature. The White House can try to spin it anyway they choose, but he flipped-off all of us, end of story.

Man we are living in "1984" and big brother is telling us what we see now, and unbelievably some are falling for it.

Bbbbuuuuulllll ddduuuunnnng.

To me it just looks like there is a small bulge on the left that would be his thumb.

:shrug: