Something on a show I saw that might be interesting to y'all....

I'm watching this program that's pretty old. There used to be this popular Christian pop group called DC Talk and two of the members are on this program called "Life Today" talking about a book they wrote called "Under God". I have been to DC several years ago but it was on a class trip so I didn't get to take my time and look at everything. Hopefully I can go back sometime in the next couple of summers (I think my dad would like it). Anyways one of the authors of the book (and group member) is saying in his book that all over DC is carved in stone various scriptures from the Bible. I was wondering if anybody can answer about this for those who know DC better. This book is called "Under God" and is about how we (supposivley) were founded upon a belief in God and the Christian faith (*cough*not*cough*) helped play a role in the founding of the land and all that. And the host of the show was saying how people want to take away "Under God" out of the pledge and out of money (uh when was the last time?) and you can't have the Ten Commandments up everywhere (uh not public property unless other people can as well have their monuments) and whined about that a little bit.
The host's wife (co-host) asked the two guys if as they travel around if they've found young people are lacking in the Christian heritage (if you count the Salem trials and hysteria). One singer said how when they walked around the capital they learned a lot and that's how they got the idea to write the book. The host was saying how there are "forces" who want Christians to forget about God (heh) and radicals out there (uh look in the mirror). The host (his name is James Robinson) is saying this book "Under God" should be a college and/or a high school text book because it's taking us back to the truth about our heritage. A co-author mentions John Adams and a quote from him: "Statesmen may plan and spectulate of liberty but it is religion and mortality a lone which can establish which freedoms and principles can surely stand." This guy also mentioned something with MLK and a statement with depth. The host said if you don't have understand the importance of self rule and self government then you just have mob rule and a democracy ruled by a mob and no understanding of restrength is self-induldgence and "my way and power rules" then you have anarchy and a dictator. Then he mentions the middle east and how they're trying to get a democracy and if they don't understand self rule it'll never work there and the one's with the "bigger stick" will rule. He says our founding fathers understud that if an individual is under the control of a force, and the divine providnce and the supreme being and they refered to God and unapologiticly didn't impose God on anyone but recognized God as real as the son. They understud that only under the control of a supreme force of an authority can democracy even work and how the founding fathers used the Bible to place our government. The host said to the authors (the two guys from DC Talk) that if they didn't love their families, friends and care for other people then people would deny everything they said out of their mouths. So he ended the program with talking about reaching out to people and showing people by really caring for people and loving people and then they'll want to listen to you and plugged the book again. Has anybody ever heard of this book?

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

- Thomas Jefferson

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

- Thomas Jefferson

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

- John Adams

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

-James Madison

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

-James Madison

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.

-Thomas Paine

It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it (the Apocalypse), and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814



The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter... But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789

They believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
Patrick Henry has been quoted as saying that, but as to the context, and the source I am not sure.
Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. A Deist according to Webster's is (1) The belief in the existence of a God on purely rational grounds without reliance on revelation or authority; especially in the 17th and 18th centuries. (2) The doctrine that God created the world and its natural laws, but takes no further part in its functioning. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible (The Jefferson Bible), of which I own a copy. It TOTALLY removes all accounts of the divinity of Christ and all of the miracles - including the virgin birth. Benjamin Franklin was raised Episcopalian, but was also a Deist. John Adams was raised a Congregationalist, but later became a Unitarian. Here are what some of the other founders had to say about it.

John Adams:

"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

John Adams again:

"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

Still more John Adams:

“...Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”


Thomas Jefferson:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson again:

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

From Jefferson’s biography:
“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

James Madison:

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

James Madison again:

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Thomas Paine:

"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."

Finally, a word from Abraham Lincoln:


The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-- Abraham Lincoln

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

of the world untie!!

(I'm dyslexic too; it should be OK if I make fun of myself.)

Deism was a big fad in the late 18th century. It is not Christianity. And the founding fathers were Deists.

Weren't some aganostic at best too? Thanks for those quote's as well. I get so tired of the "Founding fathers were Christian" nonsense. I'm a Christian myself but I'm not going to change history to please some people who like to live in an alternative reality and rewrite history.

I think Deism was something of a forerunner to agnosticism but I really am not well-read enough regarding the history to say so. If we've got any historians or theologians in our ranks who can research this effectively (e.g. they have books around their house with useful material here) it may help.

Dan Brown's next book will deal with the Masonic influence in setting up this country and how DC is laid out in Masonic symbols.

(a documentary) about the New World Order and they pointed out Masonic signs all over the capital. It was quite weird. Even on the dollar bills. Are there Biblical scriptures over DC though? When I went I just got to see a few places.

Welcome to DU!! :toast: