Youth sentenced to detention center in baseball bat killing

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/29/baseball.bat.killing/index.html

"A 13-year-old boy convicted of beating his friend to death with a baseball bat was sentenced Thursday to a youth detention facility until he is 25 years old, although he could be paroled before then."

I feel the need to say something about this. I think it's terrible the other boy died, but that is no reason to ruin this boy's life. From all accounts the one killed was bigger, older, and relentlessly picking on the 13 year old boy. He would follow him and continue to tease, berate, and bully him. The 13 year old, instead of taking it, snapped and swung the bat at the older boy, once at the knee, and once in the head. He died.

It's tragic, but simliar things happened to me when I was younger, and luckily nobody died. One thing that helped get me realize I had to get a grip on my behavior was when I was 14 realizing that if someone died I could go to jail, with the help of a counselor after I got into a fight with a boy double my size who was relentlessly picking on me.

Anyway I feel really sorry for the parents of this kid, and him. From all accounts he was a nice, normal, well-liked boy who just got poked and poked and poked till he felt he had no other recourse. Putting him in juvy till he's 25 is going to destroy his life.

say the older kid didn't do that. He also got the maximum sentence which suggests the older kid might not have done that. I would like to know more about what that older kid actually did in order for the younger kid to do what he did. Your senario sounds likely, but it isn't indisputable.

It's not disputed. If the prosecution says the older boy was teasing him, then you can be assured they had plenty of witnesses.

i havent heard word one about any long term bullying, being in LA i think i would have. do you have any links to stories reporting that?

I didn't mention any long term bullying nor have I read of any. All i read was that the older boy was teasing him mercilessly, and from some accounts physically shoving and otherwise showing physical dominace over the younger kid.

People snap, and kids, especially 13 year old boys, really can snap and they'll grab something and swing it in anger because they feel powerless. It doesn't have to be going on over days or weeks or months. Even 1 or 2 minutes can be enough to make a person snap if they've had a bad day which it seem slike this kid did.

He snapped, and swung his bat.

It's tragic but honestly it could have happened to so many kids in this country before they learn how to control themselves as adults. It's no reason to lock the kid up till he's 25 and destroy his life.

you also said there was a continual unrelenting pattern which the prosecutors also didn't admit. You may well be right as to the actual facts, but what you stated and what the prosecution said are not the same thing.

"From all accounts the one killed was bigger, older, and relentlessly picking on the 13 year old boy. He would follow him and continue to tease, berate, and bully him."

From the statements, the teasing started away from the line during the game, and continued when the boy left after they lost, and the older larger boy followed him.

When an older and larger boy 'teases' you, you can call it whatever you want but it'll very easily make a kid snap. How many times have you seen kids just flip out? I've seen it a bunch. It's VERY common. One kid gives another a hard time, even for a few minutes, and if they're already primed to be in a bad mood (like losing a game) it's easy for a kid to flip out, even on a bigger kid.

It doesn't mean you take an otherwise nice kid and throw him in lockup for 12 years.

Generally they wail ineffecutally with fists and it's broken up. I have seen kids pick up hatches, wrenches, broomsticks and other less likely weapons to use. I've seen kids try and break down doors they were so enraged, put fists through drywall, etc.

What happened here was, it seems to me, no different than any other case of temporary childhood rage going out of control, but just the most unlucky circumstances where a child actually was killed by it. How the boy reacted wasn't rare, but the fact that the other boy died was.

Your use of the word would implies that this was a continual event, not a one time only event. That is a much different thing.

My horrible grammar and writing. I see what you're saying. "Did" would fit better.

Also from other articles, the boy who died was shoving him around and calling him 'racial epithets', among other things.

but here it really did lead to a misunderstanding of what had occured. I don't know what a fair sentence would be with this set of facts. The maximum probably isn't totally fair, but he should be getting something. It should be noted that there are people in prison for significantly less severe crimes than this who are serving decades (drug cases, robberies etc.)

My problem is that the kid obviously has a rage problem. He was shoved around sure, but like the Judge noted he could have just walked away.

Taking a thirteen year old with a rage issue and putting him in juvey till he's 25 is essentially going to release in 12 years a hardened violent criminal. Instead of counseling, and intensive community service for much of that time, on a youth probation.

He definately should get something. Alot of something, just not being forgotten about.

Some people know the difference, I guess others choose to minimize bullying, for whatever reason. The kid needed to be sentenced, but bullying is not teasing and has gotten way out of hand. Too, teachers and principals would be wise to recognize the difference. Do they in your school? They don't here, they treat it all the same.

He's thirteen, and made a mistake and flipped out. It could have happened to just about any 13 year old boy. They have anger issues. It's part of puberty and growing up. He didn't mean to kill the kid, and he needs counseling and to pay for it in some way, but not to have his own life destroyed. This wasn't some career criminal youth, he'd never done anything wrong in his life before, and everyone thought of him as a great kid.

scholarship) and I knew what would happen if I hit someone in the head with a baseball bat. I knew what would happen if I hit someone in the head with a pitch. I wouldn't want that kid to be around anyone I cared about. He may have never done anything bad before but he has now proved that he is capable of killing. Even if it was unintentional, it was a HUGE screw up. Even though (I still coach youth baseball) I've been around baseball for almost 50 years I've never seen anyone intentionally hit someone else with a baseball bat.

but i've seen it. I saw a kid hit another kid square in the back with an aluminum bat as he was walking away. I agree though that it's rare.

yeah you know when you swing a bat at someone that you could kill them, but if you think that a 13 year old kid who is already in a bad mood, and then is teased and made to feel powerless isn't going to flip out, then I'm surprised. Some kids who are otherwise seemingly wonderfull kids can have their rage come out.

Hell any of us can. Thinking that there's no way anyone could ever enrage you enough to make you pick up a bat and swing it at a guys head is naive. You might not be able to imagine it but it's possible. The older we get though the more we're able to distinguish what really really deserves physical action. When you're 13 though and your hormones are shooting off everything is extreme. Love is extreme, Hate is extreme.

It was SO wrong for this kid to use violence, and wrong to use a bat, and tragic for the other child to die.

All i'm saying is that the kid isn't some cold psycho killer from all accounts. He just snapped. He needs counselling and to be able to atone for this, and putting him in juvie for 12 years till he's 25 will only destroy his life and really MAKE him a criminal.

Pittsburgh kids but I've only seen pushes and fists in Arkansas.

Most of the violence I've witnesses was in other places, Texas and New York mostly.

And yeah pushes and fists mostly.

and hits another boy with a bat is extremely dangerous, even if he is just 13. There are so many situations that could provoke his anger.
Gee, he is locked up in a juvenile detention facility and that's not fair?
Give me a break! The kid he killed is never coming back, now, that is not fair.

to kill him. He's 13 and was feeling lowbecause his team lost, and here comes another kid to give him shit about it. He snapped, tragic for him. Tragic for the bully, tragic for the families. Horrible all around... The world we live in can get surreal sometimes..

The boy needs to be in counseling, and with his family. Yes he needs to atone for what he did, but I guarantee you he'll be doing that for the rest of his life. There's no need to put him in detention till he's 25 years old and completely destroy another child's life.

He was feeling sad today because his team lost. He might be feeling sad tomorrow cause he got a bad grade. Someone who can't deal with anger to the point of killing another person should not be out in society.

12 years isn't a life sentence and it IS a juvenile detention center. No picnic, I'm sure but the kid had to do SOME time. No?

I mean, yeah there's that gut feeling that says 'commit a crime, do time' but he's 13. He needs help. In a perfect world Juvenile detention would be a place he could go for six months that would be a place he could deal with what happened, talk with counselors, etc...Then be on something akin to a very strict probation till he's an adult. ankle bracelet, house arrest, and a large number of community service hours on an ongoing basis.

Unfortunately there is no perfect solution because our society would rather throw minor's in prison or put them to death than actually create healthy citizens.

Maybe in a better world Juvey would be a place he could go to for a year or two where'd he'd be put through a hell of al ot of education, discipline, and counseling to give hima chance.

Jailing him for 12 years just isn't the answer. A thirteen year old made a mistake, and he's going to now pay for it for the rest of his life. I know the republican argument is that the other kid doesn't have a life anymore to do anythign with. It is tragic, but why ruin two lives?

HTF is that a republican argument?
:spank: :spank: :spank:

murder.
My god, if that was an acceptable excuse, half the killers would get off.
And most kids would be dead.
They all tease each other, it's a part of growing up.

When a child gets "teased"- or bullied, which is only a more extreme form of "teasing"- it gives other kids around him the go-ahead to do the same thing.

Let's suppose for a moment that this kid was teased the way I was: by everyone, even those who normally got teased and bullied themselves. It was incredibly merciless; it got to the extent that a gang of kids threw me headfirst into a garbage can and the playground monitor who was watching not only did nothing, but was, herself, an employee of the school, laughing at it.

Yelled at by a cafateria monitor- also an employee- because I was chewing my food in the direction of another kid, with my mouth closed- and then getting excuses from a teacher for the person that needlessly bitched about it ("her parents are getting a givorce right now and she's very upset a lot" was the excuse I got).

I won't go into the shunning. That alone can drive one to violence, against oneself or others.

Schoolyard bullies can flummox adults, too, which only adds to the problem. This kind of treatment went on for me from about second to eleventh grade. Nobody did anything about it, and I didn't think I was 'allowed' to take matters into my own hands- not that I had any examples from adults on how to make it stop. Oh, and for the record, "ignore the bullies and they'll get bored or stop" is a whole, big pile of hogwash; bullies don't stop anymore and haven't ever done in my memory.

Let me ask you a question- when does it become okay for a kid to hit back? I'm not talking about someone dying, as happened here; I'm talking about someone proving to bullies that there is a point beyond which one will come back at
How much, in you opinion, is too much? Where's the line?

I know young men in that situation who went to quality facilities and got the help they needed. They're living very quality lives now. I also know boys who killed people as teens who have gotten life in prison. It's a fair sentence, it was murder. I just hope he gets the kind of quality living environment he needs so that he isn't worse when he gets out. That's the real question.