Not Good - Fitzgerald's boss replaced with political hack

Let's hope and pray that Fitz can hang in there - the pressure on him must be enormous.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

The recent resignation of Patrick Fitzgerald's friend, career Justice Department prosecutor James Comey, as Deputy Attorney General -- and Fitzgerald's immediate supervisor -- is also a warning sign that the Bush administration is growing uncomfortable with the direction of Fitzgerald's investigation. Comey is to be replaced by Timothy Flanigan, a conservative GOP political hack and a Federalist Society colleague of Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts. Flanigan, along with Roberts, was a member of the 2000 Florida GOP recount team and later the general counsel for the scandal-plagued Tyco Corporation. While at Tyco, Flanigan liaised with tainted GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff and his Greenberg Traurig law firm

On Edit: Notice the connection between Flanigan and John Roberts. The Bushies plant their stooges at every level possible, including the Justice Department and Supreme Court.

You know, what will they do when every governmental job is filled with GOP hacks? Create more?

They plant their stooges in the White House, the supreme court, congress, the house, etc. When will people say enough is enough? :shrug:

whice we of course are not.

;-)

Mass Protests and Civil Disobedience is our only answer.

Are You Pissed Off Enough Yet ?

...where Madsen appears to have cribbed his notes.

Flanigan to Be Named No. 2 at DOJ
Vanessa Blum
Legal Times
05-25-2005
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1116925518561

Former Deputy White House Counsel Timothy Flanigan has been selected by the White House to replace Deputy Attorney General James Comey in the Justice Department's No. 2 slot.

Comey announced in April plans to step down, but stated at the time he would stay on through the summer. Flanigan, 52, currently serves as a senior vice president and general counsel for Tyco International Inc. "I'm pleased the president has nominated me and am looking forward to the Senate's confirmation process," says Flanigan.

The selection of Flanigan, which was announced May 24, comes as small surprise. Legal Times reported May 9 that Flanigan was considered the top contender for the influential post because of his close relationship with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and his ties to the White House. From 2001 until 2002, Flanigan served as Gonzales' deputy in the White House counsel's office.

In a May 6 interview, Bradford Berenson, a former White House lawyer, described Gonzales' relationship with Flanigan as "very close."

This could be key. Perhaps he knows that Fitz will unload before he resigns. If so, it won't be long now.

Fitzgerald has been on the case since 2003. Surely he must be almost through. He did a whole bunch of interviews not long ago so maybe he knows what's up or something. I'm very anxiously waiting what he has.

Anyone know?

Which is not until after Labor Day.

Say no more.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr17722.htm

"TYCO Former Executives L. Dennis Kozlowski, Mark H. Swartz and Mark A. Belnick Sued for Fraud

All Three Charged with Failure to Disclose Millions of Dollars of Low Interest and Interest-Free Loans They Received from the Company During Their Employment at Tyco

Kozlowski and Swartz Alleged to Have Forgiven Without Proper Authorization, Tens of Millions of Dollars of Their Own Loans and Entered Into Other Secret Transactions with the Company."

Isn't this the company with the financial scandals? I guess the more corrupt the better for this maladministration.

I was thinking that as well. I wonder if this guy has any connection to Dennis Koslowski of Tyco(he made a ton of money and he had a very extravegent lifestyle).

Either way, this is no surprise. I was wondering what was taking so long.

People didn't actually expect the administration to let Rove go did they?

I can only imagine the media outcry if the Clinton administration had tried something similar.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1113987915498
and http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ohs/Press/04-20-05.htm

I didn't help Nixon any, but when have these assholes ever learned anything from history? :shrug:
I concur, this does not sound kosher.

Okay see this is what worried me about having a former gop member investigate one of it's own to begin with.

May be time to bail out noisily...and get the story out.

Fitzgerald Better Hurry......as in indictments....I think it's already too late....

im gonna be sick. I knew these bastards would find a way of spitting the hook.

It's now or never.

Do your jobs. Tell the truth without bias or malice. Just tell the American people the truth.

Fitzgerald has on the repunk?

Now they will have their plant on the inside. C'mon Fitz ya better spill it quick!

Disgusting.

This song was aimed and the PMRC crowd (and Ronald Raygun) in the 80's but I think it really applies to the Bush crime family of today...


Looks like all your laws are broken, all your lines are down
And all your officers are shook up babbling little clowns
Looks like all your power's gone, it's sprayed upon the wall
In blood and spit, it spells out your inevitable fall

And all the hungry outlaws have taken up a stance
Simple disobedience
Yeah, all the hungry outlaws have taken up a stance
Simple disobedience

Now all your complex little schemes that form your master plan
Are scrambled up and that is something you just don't understand
A cyclone of confusion rips right through your holy troops
The very thing that weakens you gives power, gives me juice

And all the hungry outlaws have taken up a stance
Simple disobedience
Yeah, all the hungry outlaws have taken up a stance
Simple disobedience

Take your laser microscope and try to find an answer
No antidote or drug to cure our special strain of cancer
It spreads its revolution wide from cell to cell to cell
Your kingdom's like your body, it dies and goes to hell

And all the hungry outlaws have taken up a stance
Simple disobedience
Yeah, all the hungry outlaws have taken up a stance
Simple disobedience

Alice Cooper-1986 Constrictor
:headbang:

He's one of my favorite's. I'll have to find that song. I don't think I have that one.

Within his hands is the potential to bring down the worlds biggest crime family. He will either be a saviour or another fallen victim. Let us hope for all mankind that it is the former.

if Fitzgerald does't get fired, and produces indictments, they will be pardoned before they see the light of day

The only thing that can save this republic now is moderate republicans, and I don't think that will happen

reason for serious concern, at this point anyhow. It has the potential, but it's still not there yet.

It is important, of course. The truth is that the snakes in this administration are going to pull out all stops to prevent the investigation from reaching the two top dogs. And that means taking actions far more serious than having Rove's attorney chat "off the record" to some reporters.

This is a high stakes game.

Bushco will launch a full frontal attack using every lever they currently control, including the Congress, the media and the courts. If Fitz can withstand this and bring forward indictments he will be a true national hero.

of the balance of federal powers taking a serious hit in the next six months. That is not hype nor hysteria. Things are very tense within the administration.

It has been well reported that there are many in the military establishment who hate Bush's guts and would like to see a change in Administration. I suspect this is true at all levels of government. The big question is who is gonna prevail" We now know the battle is on. I think we are truly going to witness some historic times in the next few weeks and months ahead.

uncharted waters. This is a strange time, indeed. Our best bet -- and I do not say this lightly -- is to hold firmly to the Constitution. It's the best hand we could hope to be dealt. I say let's play it -- ("with gusto," as Abbie Hoffman used to say).

We have entered uncharted waters! :scared: :mad: :scared: :mad:

it will be a good show that's for sure. Stack up on the popcorn!

witnessing America's first CIA/military-led coup. I have all confidence though that if it happened, it would be a coup to restore the Constitution. It seems to be increasingly well-known by many insiders (and a good number of outsiders) that our nation is being "led" by a crime syndicate.

I will say this, at least this time, the coup might well be a popular one.

What do you mean when you say, "the balance of federal powers" will take "a serious hit"?

For a starting point, I'd use what I consider one of the single most important books on the subject, Arthur Schlesinger, Jr's "The Imperial Presidency." He writes about how the Constitution mandates that the three branches of government (executive, legislative, and judicial) are each supposed to be equal in power. Each one is to be held in check by the other two, and in turn, to coordinate efforts at holding the other two in check.

There is by nature stress and tension between them. That's actually good. However, since the beginning, there has been efforts by presidents to grab power .... and it is always through the use of war. And, of course, while the Constitution gives authority to declare war with congress, the president has the power to take part in emergency actions to protect the state.

When Nixon was under pressure, it is a fact that people were nervous about how far he would go in his effort to remain in power. Would he pull a, "The Supreme Court has spoken, now let's see them enforce their ruling," type of thing? Would he ignore the federal courts? Even the Supreme court? (He had made a strange statement about if the court ruled in a way he felt was correct, and implied that a less than unanimous decicision might not be binding.) Or, would he defy the House? Nixon, despite his sins, was actually an admirer of the constitution.

The neocons, on the other hand, are openly distainful of the Constitution. An obvious area they disagree on is presidential authority -- incarceration without a hearing; expanded war powers; etc. Likewise, they mock congressional oversight .... Cheney and his energy executives, for example.

Their tendency to use "national security" as a trump card is well-known. This brings us to an extreme example, found on pages 78-79 of Senator Robert Byrd's "Losing America." I quote:

"Only hours after the September 11 attacks, the administration installed a 'shadow government' of about a hundred senior executive branch officials to live and work secretly outside Washington at two East Coast locations, reportedly run from the White House. White House chief of staff Andrew Card directs the shadow government from the White House, where he is immune from giving testimony to Congress (have we heard this before?) The shadow government is supposed to assume command of the government in case of national emergency. Of course, this shadow government consists of one branch only, the executive branch.

"This shadow government was created under the authority of the 'continuity of operations' plans left over from the Cold War and executive orders issued by President Ronald Reagan. However, the Congress has not sanctioned the shadow government, nor were members of Congress even made aware of its existence until the story was leaked in March 2002. This shadow government has been described as an 'indefinite precaution,' which can mean anything. While a few newspaper stories reported in March 2002, very little new information has been reported since then. The shadow government is presumed to continue its operations outside congressional oversight."

I wonder what exactly the "shadow government" is up to these days! Running corporations? Disseminating propaganda? Flying detainees to torture-friendly countries? Anything's possible with Commander Cuckoo Bananas in charge!

Man, H2O, if these bastards decide to go ahead and nuke Iran, I'm guessing that we will see full-on fascism actually arise. What are the chances we'll even have an election in 2008? Or do they need to at least keep up appearances?

but to be honest, I'm not thinking that far ahead. My limited insight and energy is stretched pretty thin concentrating on the here and now. That said, I think people need to recognize that democracy is living, it's real, and it's now. What we do now will determine the future.

that Bush tried to stop the election in 2004. Did anybody else? I think they'll have to still have elections in 2008. They might "let" a democrat be president but make a deal with him (or maybe her) to continue some of their plans to keep things rolling. I really don't know.

no chance

The Dems can never win unless we have fair elections

KL

So is this shadow government still going on? Is Andrew Card the one really in charge of the show and leads Bush and the group to do all the other stuff with Iraq etc?

I think that one day day when the truth comes out, we will be shocked at the lengths this administration went to. I think we will find their tactics (that are by now commonplace and considered commonplace within the white house and the repub party) will be insidious in nature. I think there's blackmailing going on big time. I think there are mafia like threats. I think there is bribing like there's no tomorrow. I think this administration is the epitome of thorough corruption.

I am beyond disgusted to the point of depression and loss of faith or hope.

The Bush group has killed people before so why wouldn't they now? Now this story has legs in the media so if Fitzgerald ever appeared "suicided" it would be mighty suspecious and a huge risk for them I thikn. But these people are way worse then the mafia for sure. I wonder if we'll ever know the truth though even in the future.

I sorta feel bad for Fitzgerald. He has all this responsibility on his shoulders and so much ridding on him. He's one of the best so hopefully it's the later.

anyone see a reason given by Comey for his resignation? Like spending more time with the family, or trying to keep the family alive, anything? It says he will stay on thru the summer, but why wouldn't he stay on (if he could) until Fitz is finished?

bastards probably made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Your joke and my margarita made my Friday!
Perfect delivery.
Nicely done.

But as noted above I do think the fact that he is staying on through the end of summer is actually good. It may well be that he believes that Fitz can wrap it up before the stooge takes over.

"Fitzgerald is an old friend of Comey's, and the god-father of one of his children. Comey said that he has delegated his authority to investigate (which is the authority of the attorney general, since Ashcroft's withdrawal) to Fitzgerald, but the Justice Department is unwilling to release the formal delegation of authority."
-- "Worse Than Watergate"; page 173

And in those two sentences, we find why DoJ is not happy with Comey, (who reportedly is on good terms with Wilson). More, it explains why the DoJ would have a difficult time "firing" or even interfering with Fitzgerald right now. It would be viewed, much in the manner of some of Nixon's desperate actions, as attempting to obstruct justice.

doesn't that mean he answers to NOONE in the AG's office?

in dispute. The truth is that it should. But the DoJ has never released this authority, according to Dean's book, at this time.

Keep in mind that there is a judge overseeing the investigation. And, according to all sources, the judge has recognized that Fitzgerald is on to something huge. (Not large; huge.) Judges tend to determine what occures within their courtrooms.

It was on my list last summer. But then I got caught up in 9-11 books and then BCCI books. I think I will get it this weekend.

Definitely worth reading.

No one knows more about conspiracy and obstruction of justice at the highest levels of government then John Dean. When he tells you that this is Worse Than Watergate -he is speaking volumes.

If John Dean is talking you definitley listen. I want his book as well. It would be good to have in my collection I think. I'm so anxious to see what Fitzgerald has. Whatever it is must have them very very nervous.

for the judge to deny the journalists 'shield' law - to allow Fitz to send Miller to jail.

Do you think there's any 'conspiracy' charges Fitz might be going after?--casting the 'wide net' and all.

that there will be charges of perjury; obstructing justice; and very, very, very possible two charges of espionage. Each of these is, in fact, part of the larger conspiracy.

There are people who have expressed some disappointment about perjury charges. At this level, it is an extremely important charge.

But to again quote Dean: "The known facts -- that the activities involved two (or more) senior officials -- indicate there is evidence of a criminal conspiracy. That criminal conspiracy is ongoing, thus creating secondary transgressions. (Sound familiar?) The federal laws of conspiracy, along with the federal laws dealing with obstruction of justice, are among the most far-reaching of the federal criminal laws." (page 176)

Criminal conspiracy is big time trouble for the WH.

Thanks for your insights

I always read your posts... I read them for insight, because you are very knowledgeable. My question to you, is what can the people do, if Fitz does get replaced? I'm not sure the public really knows what's on the line here, and if the worst case scenario occurs, I don't see a huge public outcry occurring.

I honestly do not think he will be replaced. I do not think that there is reason to believe he can be, except on presidential authority. If that did happen, there would be a move in the House for impeachment hearings to begin.

I think the more likely crises will occur after the indictments. And we'll deal with those then.

As far as what our reaction can and should be, I think that everything that is spelled out in the Bill of Rights has to be considered. By no small "coincidence," the administration seeks to limit the rights of Americans which are noted in that Bill of Rights. We should be exercising those rights daily.

I truly do appreciate it.

I will continue to play "Johnny Appleseed" and spread news articles where minds have been molded by the right. It's what I do... hopefully I can open some eyes. Thanks again.

So if he does fire Fitzgerald he gets impeached automatically? So either way they're screwed? I think they could be doing this as a smoke screen perhaps. Could that be it? To try to save their asses and discredit Fitzgerald? I have read he will be done by the end of summer with this case. Anybody know?

But I find it hard to believe that Fitz doesn't have something ready to go, especially in light of the judge's reaction to the review of Fitz's evidence.

isn't the word I would use. But, let's look closer: at this point, the republican clowns who attempt to assist the neocons by saying rude things about the investigation tend to say things about "the only one in jail is Miller" and other nonsense.

If Fitzgerald is pressured, there is every reason to believe that much more information will become known. This includes not only the criminal activity of senior White House officials, but efforts to cover it up. The House would respond.

At a minimum he is likely to charge her with criminal contempt which means her prison stay will not end with the conclusion of the Grand Jury term in October. But I think he probably is gaining enough evidence on her to charge her with conspiracy if not something worse.

right to a trial. Which means she will be released on bail.

This is good! So they couldn't get rid of Fitzgerald could they? Maybe this is all smokes and mirrors to discredit Fitzgerald when he's ready for the bomb?

would result in problems they cannot afford. Those types of actions can have reactions which bring unintended consequences. Were the administration going to try to get rid of Fitzgerald, they probably would have done so by now. The fact that they haven't speaks loudly.

Sounds like Comey knew Fitzgerald was the right person and they probably dug some dirt up on Fitzgerald to see what he's about and saw he isn't a loyalist even though he's a republican. They are definitley trying to save their asses. He must have something damaging for this.

Though it is frequently assumed Fitzgerald is a republican, he is not.

In his state he's listed as an independent isn't he?

NOT!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

My God the stench of injustice should gag the populace !!!!!!

right under the radar.

Why isn't she fired yet? It's obvious she is a partisan hack propaganda artist.

If Judy goes down, so does the Times. They will take a huge PR and credibility hit. After all it was her headline stories that helped fuel support for the war.

posted here about it. It was a limited news blurb while everyone was obsessing over Gannon Guckert or some other some such.

Let's spread the truth!!!!

If Flanigan fires Fitzgerald, this is going to trigger a Constitutional Crisis. This is very scary

I thought that once his term is over, that was it for his gig unless they reappointed him.

The office whose Constitutional mandate is to enforce the law of the land is interfering with the enforcement of the law of the land.

*** had better know that he has to keep his hands off of Fitzgerald. To interfere at all would trigger a crisis of significant magnitude. It should trigger instant calls for impeachment from sectors of the populace who have previously supported him. That's what happened in Oct 1973. I see no reason why it wouldn't happen again.

not reappointing him would trigger this crisis?

Damn! That's nuts. I thought they could just let him out to pasture and pretend that they were exonerated.

give him another extension. The administration could not easily prevent that.

This is really quite gripping.

Hey, H2O Man, do you realize that this is basically where I came in last year? When I registered at DU, the first thread I read was one of the first Plame Threads! It's so strange to be here, a year later, seeing all this come to a climax.

10,000 posts on DU. I'd guess that the majority are on the Plame case. It was interesting a while back when people put up the old "Plame Threads." It's been an adventure!

In Oct, if the investigation is still going, there will be incredible pressure on *** to appoint somebody sympathetic to upholding the law. Any smell of political hackery, any sense that he's trying to game the system might be viewed as interference. This is precisely what happened after the Saturday Night Massacre. Nixon had to see to it that the new special prosecutor was beyond reproach. Jaworski proved to be up to the task.

I would hope that Fitzgerald would be through before Oct. Actually, things could happen any day. Kind of antsy waiting for the other shoe to drop.

the day after Bolton is appointed.

Wait until the moment Junior's got a handful of chainsaw, tackling that large bush problem on his ranch. Then, spring it.

quite a while. Fitzgerald and Comey are old friends. I don't know what's going on in Republican circles, but it sure feels like a rumble to me, if not an earthquake. The CIA--and also probably elements in the FBI and the US military--are very unhappy campers.

So, let me give you my feel of the rumble. I think far more is at stake than indictments of a Rove or a Libby. I think the issue is WW III--the Bushites' intention to invade or nuke Iran and/or Syria. I think that's what the good CIA (as opposed to the Bushite CIA) has been trying to stop. That's why we have been seeing CIA and US commanders and other deep insiders going off the reservation. Something very serious is going on--far beyond politics.

I think I have a pretty good theory of Treasongate. It is this: The motive for outing Plame and her entire WMD monitoring network was a plot to plant WMDs, probably nukes, in Iraq, back in summer 2003--for Bush/Blair to gain the huge political benefit of a "find" of WMDs in Iraq. No WMDs were ever found--to the great chagrin of Bushites, Blairites and people like NYT "journalist" Judith Miller (who was actively "hunting" for them with US troops that summer). Stopping that plot to plant WMDs in Iraq was what got David Kelly killed on 7/17/03. Kelly was the Brits chief WMD expert who had been whistleblowing to the BBC, after the invasion, about the Blairites' "sexed up" WMD intel. On July 7, after Kelly was interrogated, Blair was told that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things"--"COULD say," not HAD said. So he knew something more than just "sexed up" intel. I think that "something" was illicit movement of WMDs to Iraq for a false "find." And I think that's also what got Plame outed seven days after the Kelly interrogation, on 7/14/03, and then her whole front company, all projects and agents, outed and put at risk, four days after Kelly was killed, on 7/22/03 (after Kelly's computers were searched).

Let me line these dates up for you:

May 22, 2003: Kelly starts whistleblowing (anonymously) to the BBC.
July 6, 2003: After being baited by Condi Rice (my read on a Wilson interview), Wilson publishes his op-ed in the NYT about Iraq-Niger nukes.
July 7, 2003: Brit intel, having found out who was whistleblowing to the BBC (their chief WMD guy--an insider), interrogates Kelly and tells Blair about the "uncomfortable things" Kelly "could say."
July 14, 2003: Plame outed (by Novak).
July 18, 2003: Kelly found dead, under extremely suspicious circumstances; his office and computers searched.
July 22, 2003: The bigger outing--of the entire CIA front company monitoring WMDs around the world (by Novak).

Note: Thus, the Wilson article may have been a set-up to create the believable cover story of Rovian revenge, with their main goal the disabling any WMD monitoring. Why would they do the second Plame outing (of the company) if the goal was just to "punish" Wilson? They were also in a hurry--a panic?--to get this done. They called at least SIX reporters (adding to their risk of treason charges).

If I'm right, then the freedom with which the Cheney/Rumsfeld crowd are running WMDs about the world is what is at issue. They may have some similar plot in motion with regard to other countries they want to invade or wipe off the face of the earth. Not that they need the "consent of the governed" any more, here at home--but, as a sop to US and world opinion, perhaps the idea is to "find" a nuke on Syria's border, or just over the border...or, whatever. Or, maybe they're still working on a "find" in Iraq that can be "traced" to....

Those are my guesses and surmises--about the Fitzgerald prosecution, and related matters. The "good" CIA is really, really, really mad at the Bush Cartel for SOMETHING--and I don't think it's just the destruction of their entire WMD-tracking ability; I think it's the REASON for that destruction. (WHY would Cheney-Rumsfeld blind the CIA to WMD activity around the world?)

I don't know where given Republicans might end up on this. I think there may be some real unhappy campers in the Republican Party as well.

The headiness of unlimited power--for instance, Bushite companies now controlling the election system (with their secret, proprietary programming code--and with Dem election officials being such pushovers for bribery, future job offers and petty fiefdoms)--has gripped much of the Republican Party, most evident in Bush's "pod people" in Congress. Whatever they think of nuking Iran or Syria (or Mecca, as one recently suggested), they are moving desperately and quickly to consolidate global corporate financial gains that have been made under their rule, and to secure the Supreme Court. This explains their spurning of any compromise. They are panicked. They fear that they won't be guaranteed their seats forever (if citizens get off the dime and ban Diebold, ES&S and brethren, and achieve transparency in elections). They also fear what's coming down with this prosecution--that the Bush Cartel will be exposed--and, since it's a Republican prosecution, occurring at the INSTIGATION of the unhappy CIA, it may not be within Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld's power to stop it.

On the other hand, it could be a whitewash, which won't touch the real perps, but may be aimed just at STOPPING them, at preventing an incineration of the Middle East. Indictments of the lesser figures might do that--might inspire the top of the chain to settle for vast wealth and vast estates somewhere, and give up world domination.

Guesses and surmises, most of this. And pretty much all we can do about it--as the citizens of this once great democracy--is to see to the election system. That's our job--to get transparent, verifiable elections once again, and, maybe, with the power of our vote restored, to learn some lessons from this fascist coup, and try to build a better country.

From the Wall Street Journal's Washington Wire, the only paragraph about the Plame investigation within the column:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112259058252699239,00-search.html?KEYWORDS=Comey&COLLECTION=wsjie/archive
(subscription)

"ARM'S LENGTH: Imminent departure of Deputy Attorney General Comey, who appointed CIA leak prosecutor Fitzgerald, would create a vacuum, since Gonzales is recused because of previous White House counsel service. Arriving deputy Flanigan, who also worked in counsel's office, may have similar problem, while third-in-command McCallum is Yale friend of Bush. Comey plans to give the responsibility to career Justice attorney, though the only control Fitzgerald's Justice handler has is to fire him."

This is vague, but it seems to point out that Comey has worked this out, without giving authority to one of the Bush henchmen.

That said, I think Comey's resignation is a sign that not only is the investigation close to being over, but that it will be resulting in some very significant indictments. Think about it: could the guy (Comey) who appointed the guy (Fitzgerald), who will be taking actions that could bring down the White House, be hanging around and within the Bush administration while this is happening?

Thanks for laying it all out like that. It's long been clear to me that the Plame leak was more than just to scare Joe Wilson off his story. Too much of a coincidence that Plame worked on WMD in the Middle East. And the links to David Kelly's death are incredibly telling.

I do hope that Fitz has more friends in power around him than just Comey, because he's going to need them.

This is about the CIA vs. Bushco, and it's not going to be over soon.

I forgot all about Kelly.

was found dead right after Plame was outed.

Now I am not in the camp of people who believe that every politically connected person who commits suicide was murdered by BushCo, but I certainly believe that some of them likely were. And the Kelly "suicide" just stinks.

Edit to add:

What's ironic is that people like Kelly are "suicided" to prevent them from making the lies of Bush/Blair public, as if simply revealing the truth would cause some kind of public outcry or backlash. I say hogwash, the people already have the truth, that Bush lied to get us into Iraq, and THEY DON'T CARE. Only a minority think (if you can believe the recent polls) that Bush lying us into war is grounds for impeachment.

So they probably would be better off letting people like Kelly and Wilson alone; no one's going to care what they say anyway. Grrr.

create the believable cover story of Rovian revenge..." Are you asserting that Bushco and the neocons were looking for an excuse to take out Plame's organization, and Wilson's article was the excuse they needed? I don't know if I buy that: this means that if Wilson had never written the article, Bushco would not have been able to implement their plans. That doesn't make sense to me.

plant WMD's and wondering how to get around Plame's network.. Wilson's op-ed just happened to fill the bill...

Or (or maybe "and")... the crappy Italian forgeries were a plant in and of themselves... and Cheney DID want Wilson to go and "check them out"...

whether Cheney wanted Wilson to go or not. On MTP, Cheney said he didn't even know Wilson and that he had not asked him to go, but Cheney was nosing around the CIA asking questions and that he wanted someone to go check it out to see if the Niger claims were true. He obviously knew Plame was an agent and that her husband was an Ambassador to Africa, so it made it easy to plant the question, knowing that someone would "refer" to Wilson. Or, I could just be reading too many of these threads:eyes: Hmmm...I've often wondered why Cheney would have wanted Wilson to go to Africa if he knew that there wouldn't be anything there to find...makes sense now.

I think the question in all of this is not who was at the table, but what hand did they play in the scheme of things. The usual characters are coming front and center, but connecting the dots is what is making this difficult. This is what leads me to believe that Fitzpatrick has more going here than just the "outing" of a CIA agent.

whole art of oratory is employed in defense of it...Thucydides

the op-ed? Had he written for the NYT or another paper before? Now I'm wondering if a plant faked outrage and suggested that Joe write to the paper? He seems like he would have come up with the idea himself, but maybe someone helped nudge him.

mods link is old and may not work so posting whole article!!


check out the date..this was june...before wilson wrote his op-ed in nyt..


http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/06/Whistleblower.html






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 20, 2003



A DOD whistleblower reportedly details an attempt by a covert U.S. team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was said to have been later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence.

Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/ DoD Fiascos

IN a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert operations team had planted "Weapons of Mass Destruction" (WMDs) in Iraq -- then "lost" them when the team was killed by so-called "friendly fire."

The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq.

According to Al Martin Raw.com, "Ms.Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.

The information that is being leaked out is information "obtained while she was in Germany heading up the debriefing of returning service personnel, involved in intelligence work in Iraq for the Department of Defense and/or the Central Intelligence Agency.

"According to Ms. Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq," reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides "Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence."

Al Martin is a retired Lt. Commander (US Navy), the author of a memoir called The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider, and he is considered one of America's foremost experts on corporate and government fraud.

Ms. Rogers reports that this particular covert operation team was manned by ex-military personnel and that "the unit was paid through the Department of Agriculture in order to hide it, which is also very commonplace."
According to Al Martin Raw.com, "the Ag Department has often been used as a paymaster on behalf of the CIA, DIA, and NSA and others."

According to the Al Martin Raw.com story, another aspect of Ms. Rogers' report concerns a covert operation which was to locate the assets of Saddam Hussein and his family, including cash, gold bullion, jewelry and assorted valuable antiquities.

The problem became evident when "the operation in Iraq involved 100 people, all of whom apparently are now dead, having succumbed to so-called 'friendly fire.' The scope of this operation included the penetration of the Central Bank of Iraq, other large commercial banks in Baghdad, the Iraqi National Museum and certain presidential palaces where monies and bullion were secreted."

"They identified about $2 billion of cash in US dollars, another $150 million in Euros, in physical banknotes, and about another $100 million in sundry foreign currencies ranging from Yen to British Pounds," reports Al Martin.

"These people died, mostly in the same place in Baghdad, supposedly from a stray cruise missile or a combination of missiles and bombs that went astray," Martin continues. "There were supposedly 76 who died there and the other 24 died through a variety of 'friendly fire,' 'mistaken identity,' and some of them -- their whereabouts are simply unknown."

Ms. Rogers' story sound like an updated 21st Century version of Treasure Island meets Ali Baba and the Bush Cabal Thieves, writes Martin.
"This was a contingent of CIA/ DoD operatives, but it was really the CIA that bungled it, Ms. Rogers said. They were relying on the CIA's ability to organize an effort to seize these assets and to be able to extract these assets because the CIA claimed it had resources on the ground within the Iraqi army and the Iraqi government who had been paid. That turned out to be completely bogus. As usual."

"CIA people were supposed to be handling it," Martin continues. "They had a special 'black (unmarked) aircraft to fly it out. But none of that happened because the regular US Army showed up, stumbled onto it and everyone involved had to scramble.

These new Iraqi "Asset Seizures" go directly to the New US Ruling Junta. The US Viceroy in Iraq Paul Bremer is reportedly drinking Saddam Hussein's $2,000 a bottle Napoleon era brandy, smoking his expensive Davidoff cigars and he has even furnished his Baghdad office with Saddam's Napoleon era antique furniture

The Iraq Debacle du Jour has evidently been extensively documented by the DIA debriefing teams with "extensive tape recordings of interviews with the Iraqi returnees, the covert operatives (as well as their affidavits)."

Al Martin Raw.com has dubbed this "Operation Skim Iraq."






additonal articles on this whistleblower!

http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/08/we_53 ...
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Baker.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/06/Whistleblower.html

Check this out too

http://www.americanfreepress.net/Bank_Heist.html

http://www.iwtnews.com /

Nelda Rogers, Dept. of Agri., David Kelly etc et etc et etc....

As usual, clearly and succinctly put. This account connects all dots. .....And gets brownie points as both "most likely" ....and "most in accordance with the character of the actors".

Is anybody else reporting that? I have heard Mr. Madesen isn't to be taken seriously. I hope it's not true and if it is true I hope Fitzgerald can still do his job. :\

Wayne Madesen is not taken seriously by some. I've always found his reports very interesting and usually accurate, as far as I know. :shrug:

just stopped cold with nothing

I just got in and didnt see this.Fitzgerald is no dummy.He knows whats going on.If he really plans to follow through on this investigation he knows he cant wait too long.Who knows what else they have under their sleeves?

And in case it wasnt mentioned(didnd read all the posts) did he resign or was he pushed out? Hope there is an intrepid reporter out there who can find out.at least we would have that to use against them if it were the case.

we would come and help liberate you, as you did with us.

Bring along some BIG friends too wouldja?

You made me think, US defense budget is the size of the ten next biggest budgets combined.

Or something to that effect.

:scared:

:( and these neo-cons don't think it's big enough YET! :scared: Pathetic warmongering bastards. :grr:

opportunistically in what was a long term plan to disable CIA monitoring of WMDs, and the two plots--the one to disable the CIA, and the other to shut Kelly up--intersected sometime around June 30, 2003, when they found out who was whistleblowing to the BBC (the Brits top WMD expert)--an unexpected development that threw them into a tizzy. It created urgency in the outing of Plame and the CIA weapons monitoring capability. On or soon after July 7, they found whatever it is that Kelly knew (that the Blairites were so concerned about).

Kelly supported the war. He wanted Saddam ousted. He was an insider on the cooking of the intel. He did try to get it to be more accurate but didn't whistleblow before the invasion. He did it AFTER. Why would he do that? Why would he want to undermine the thing he had supported? It sure feels like SOMETHING happened--he discovered something--that turned him around, especially on the false intel. A plot to plant WMDs in Iraq for political gain fills the bill. It would have outraged him, if I read his character correctly. He'd worked on WMDs for twenty years. He was legendary for facing down Saddam and the Russians on WMD issues. He loved his work (non-proliferation; science). He believed in his work.

Maybe he stumbled upon the plot, or even foiled the plot. He certainly knew SOMETHING that had the Blairites in a tither--and, as I see this scenario, had the Bushites in panic mode as well.

I recently read an interview of Wilson in which he said that he called Condi Rice to get the regime to disavow the Iraq-Niger nuke claim, and she (through intermediaries) told him that she was not interested in his information, but, if he was so concerned about the matter, why didn't he publish it?

I don't have the link handy (might've been a Raw Story interview). Since Condi Rice was the one who spoke the "mushroom cloud" line, I don't think she had any good motive in saying this (why don't you publish it?). I think she was baiting him. Why on earth would she say such a thing?

He doesn't give a date for this communication with Rice, but it was after Bush's SOTU speech, and before his publication, obviously -- Feb-June '03. I was also struck by the fact that she spoke to him "through intermediaries," which likely means she had time to consult with others about what to say.

Joseph Wilson has said nothing at all that supports my theory (that it's connected to planting WMDs in Iraq or David Kelly's murder), and in fact has said some things that directly contradict it. For instance, he has said that his wife and Judith Miller are "collateral damage" in the Bush regime's war on dissent. But Wilson may be in a protective mode as to his wife--and he may not have connected the dots himself on Judith Miller.

One of David Kelly's last emails was to Judith Miller--the one in which he worries about "the many dark actors playing games." Miller had cultivated Kelly as a WMD expert, and used him as a major source in her book, "Germs." In the news article about Kelly's death that Miller wrote for the NYT (7/21/03), she fails to mention either of these personal connections to Kelly--a very odd omission for a journalist, to say the least.

I also suspect her of putting words in Kelly's mouth, after his death. She has him criticizing US troops for not looking hard enough for WMDs in Iraq--and she doesn't use quotes for these statements. (--paragraphs 15 and 16 of the 7/21 news article). It just doesn't fit with WMD whistleblower Kelly, or his state of mind at the time. But who it does serve is Judith Miller herself.

She was in Iraq with the troops "hunting" for WMDs, on a special "embed" contract signed by Donald Rumsfeld. She made herself a real nuisance to the local commanders, criticizing them for not looking hard enough. She led them here and there, and insisted on this and that. She even threatened them with her Pentagon connections.

My guess: Her bargain with the Bushites was that she would get the "scoop" when the WMDs they were going to plant in Iraq were "found."

When you think about it, why would they let all this drama build up--these reputed masters of P.R.--if they knew (as they did) that there were no WMDs in Iraq? The way the P.R. was set up, it's as if THEY were quite sure--when no one in the intel community and no one in the rest of the world were at all sure; in fact most were quite certain that Iraq had no such weapons. I remember us all expecting them to come up with a phony WMD "find" in Iraq. (Everything they did and do is phony--why not phony WMDs?).

A similar question arises with Wilson--why let him go to Niger on a wild goose chase? They KNEW there was no such Iraq-Niger connection (--and possibly had even forged the docs on this themselves, or had it done). He can't have gone on such a sensitive foreign mission--a well known diplomat-- without the okay of Rice and of the acting prez Cheney. So, why did they let him go on it? Were they already plotting against Plame and her WMD network?

CAVEAT: A whole lot of my theory is speculation. I am not any kind of insider myself, and don't have any evidence of planted WMDs, except for a couple of odd news articles--one in the Tehran Times of March 13, 2003, which isn't there any more, but was reposted on the internet at the web site of the Communist Party of Australia.

http://www.agitprop.org.au/nowar/20040324_guard_shipping_them_in.php
http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve04/g1176.html
http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=3/13/2004&Cat=4&Num=011

"The Tehran Times reported on March 13 that US forces had unloaded a large cargo of parts for construction of long-range missiles and weapons of mass destruction in the southern ports of Iraq.

"The information is said to come from a 'reliable source' in the Iraqi Governing Council who was speaking on condition of anonymity. He said that US forces, with the help of British forces stationed in southern Iraq, had made extensive efforts to conceal their actions."

-----

If they unloaded WMD components in Iraq, then those components got destroyed in route somewhere within Iraq. The other story has to do with what might have happened to them. It originates from Al Martin, at Raw.com, and is reposted at Portland Indymedia. Al Martin is not a reliable source, as I understand it, but the story has some interesting detail: A Pentagon debriefer named Nelda Rogers says there was a US op to bring WMDs into Iraq that was "bungled" by the CIA. The WMDs were "lost" when the team that was transporting them met with "friendly fire." (Could it be that this wasn't a "bungling" but rather a foiling?)

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml

-----

So my theory has very little to back it up--except maybe some good guesses. But it does seem to make odd pieces fall into place-- like...

Why does everybody assume that Wilson being married to a CIA covert agent on WMDs in any way discredit or taint him? It would seem to do the opposite; it would seem to ENHANCE his qualifications for the Niger mission. The answer may be that it is an artifact of the cover story (Rovian revenge)--something that didn't get said just right through many launderings; or, maybe it is a snickering neocon joke of some kind--that we "liberals" just don't get (they are on a jihad against the CIA, so anyone married to the CIA would naturally be suspect). It just doesn't scan as a discredit to Wilson, in any reasonable interpretation. (It does make sense, though, as a means of pointing the finger away from Cheney, as to who okayed the trip to Niger.)

Or...

Why the SECOND outing--the one of the entire CIA company--especially at a time when our nation's security depends on accurate WMD intel? Well, I guess the latter is no consideration to the Bushites. But it DOES put them at much greater risk of treason charges. The outing of Plame could be written off to Rovian revenge (people would buy that). But the outing of the whole operation--all its contacts put at great risk, all its projects shut down? That seems pretty desperate, and risky.

Or...

Why call SIX or more reporters--to get something planted in the news? Sounds like they were panicked. (Get this done NOW. Call everybody you know.) What would be the panic? They had a whole year to the election. They had plenty of time to unfold many a dirty smear and nefarious scheme. Not to mention the additional risk of treason charges--with so many reporter witnesses involved. The answer: Tony Blair had just been told that their top WMD expert, who was off the reservation and whistleblowing to the BBC, "could say some uncomfortable things." THAT may explain the six-plus phone calls and the urgency to get Plame and her network disabled.

It's a useful working hypothesis, anyway.

I agree with whoever said--upthread--that Kelly's death is not one of your typical suspicious suicide stories. The details of this death just about scream at you: assassination. And the coincidence of dates, with the Plame outings, is highly provocative.

They hunted Kelly down within the government, interrogated him, outed his name to the press, and sent him home apparently without surveillance or protection. He was soon found dead, outdoors near his home, on the route of his normal afternoon walk, supposedly having taken painkillers, slit one wrist and slowly bled to death all night, out in the cold and rain.

The man was a tough guy, and a brilliant scientist, by all reports. (Slitting one wrist--out in the cold?) In his last emails, he was looking forward to his daughter's wedding and returning to Iraq, and he thought the whole controversy surrounding him would blow over in a week. (Had he told his bosses that he wouldn't reveal their worst secret? Sounds like he did--and thought that would be an end of it.) Except for his forebodings about the "many dark actors playing games," he was upbeat and forward looking. There was no note.

The "Lord Hutton" report exonerated the Blairites (from mistreating him and driving him to "suicide"), and blamed...um... the BBC! (I'm not kidding.) They also ignored all sorts of details (like not enough blood at the scene; body moved), and expert and eyewitness dissent. The report is a lot of rubbish.

Many dark actors playing games, indeed.

now dont hold me to exact words..but supposedly he said in the email that he couldn't wait to go back to iraq..but he had to wait till after his daughters wedding!

now if kelly wanted to go back to iraq so bad he put it into an email to judith miller..but he had to wait till after his daughters wedding in sept i belive..no man commits suicide when his daughter is about to get married..especially if it meant so much to him that he would push back his work..his passion...for his daughters wedding..
no man would commit suicide before his daughters wedding..i will say that with absolute clearity...he told judith miller he could not wait to get back to iraq..but his daughters wedding came first...

what man would commit suicide..when he knew he would be walking his daughter down the isle???less than 2 months before the wedding??

its all bullshit!

he was killed plain and simple..and some how judith miller was involved!
so now she would rather be in jail than dead!

"DARK CHARACTERS" that were involved in this? He told her that via an email....she was the LAST person to 'talk' to him or have any contact with him prior to his ...*ahem*...'suicide' and I think she told someone SOMETHING Kelly had told her. Then he died. I think he knew something he shouldn't have known, told Miller and the rest is history. JMCPO.

"a couple of odd news articles--one in the Tehran Times of March 13, 2003, which isn't there any more, but was reposted on the internet at the web site of the Communist Party of Australia."

http://www.agitprop.org.au/nowar/20040324_guard_shippin...
http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve04/g1176.html
http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=3/13/2004...

I remember seeing these at the time and thinking.."here we go!" AND it was right in line with the story "arc" about WMD that was reaching a crescendo in the MSM at the time....

And I was surprised that I didn't hear anything afterwards...

Good on you for finding those links......

It's the way Organized Crime Families Work! If you own the law, you don't need to worry about breaking the law!

The neocons are actually exactly that -- an organized crimnal family.Though small in number, they have had a long-term plan to plant themselves in specific places within the executive branch that have given them nearly unlimited power.

It is not a coincidence that the manner of investigation being used by Fitzgerald is the same as is used against organized crime.

Everyone should check out a recent report published by Tom Flocco at
http://www.tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=112 just in case you had any doubts.

I too have long suspected that the entire WMD story was a complete fabrication)...Concerning your quote: Could you explain it better? A crime of outing a CIA agent is a different manner of investigation than organized crime? In what manner and to what extent? And also, how can anyone be assured that Fitzgerald is not himself working with the B*'s?

"It is not a coincidence that the manner of investigation being used by Fitzgerald is the same as is used against organized crime."

I'm getting more and more paranoid!

First, Fitzgerald would have called the investigation off a year ago if he were on the Bush team. And he could have: all he had to do is say that he found nothing that would allow him to prosecute, that it seemed that Plame was well known in some circles, and that a couple people were merely talking with that dehydrated patriot, Robert Novak, about her sending her husband on a luxurious vacation to Niger.

Instead, what he has done is go and collect all the information he could as a foundation, then arrange it in a manner that allows him to determine not merely HOW this happened, but WHY. Armed with the knowledge of why, he is able to piece together those loose ends, and when he delivers, it will be a thorough piece of work. An American classic. The parts of judges hearing appeals from Miller & Cooper show us that Fitzgerald's case is -- without question -- one involving an extremely serious national security issue.

Now, cases with "conspiracies" in this type of layered set-up require a prosecutor who turns those at the lowest levels, and work his way up. In this type of case, those at the lower level tend not only to respect & honor the higher level, they fear the consequences of crossing them. So the prosecutor has to be able to convince them that he, with just the law behind them, poses a greater threat to their well-being than the heads of the criminal group.

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My own sense has always been that Bushco knew without a doubt that there were no WMD in Iraq and that Plamegate had something to do with the arms dealers who are part of the Bush cabal.

Can we name the world's known arms dealers? Help me out here....

Sun Myung Moon
Richard Perle

alternative religious movement; just exactly HOW alternative... I guess I didn't know!!! Arms dealing in the name of Christ??? The Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity is PROFITING BY ARMS SALES?!! This is TOO rich. Tax evasion is understandable compared to this!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

a Saturday Night Massacre with Fitz. Just like Nixon did with Cox.

Bu$h has no choice, if he doesn't he is going to jail, if he does then maybe he can get the Repubs in congress to cover his butt.

Media? I don't know what they will do with this.

This indicates Bu$h himself is thinking he is in deep, he's getting desperate, that tells that Bu$h himself knows he is guilty.

Now we know.

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From the Wall Street Journal's Washington Wire, the only paragraph about the Plame investigation within the column:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112259058252699239,00-search.html?KEYWORDS=Comey&COLLECTION=wsjie/archive
(subscription)

See this sentence below: "Comey plans to give the responsibility to career Justice attorney, though the only control Fitzgerald's Justice handler has is to fire him." Also, please note the last paragraph below.

"ARM'S LENGTH: Imminent departure of Deputy Attorney General Comey, who appointed CIA leak prosecutor Fitzgerald, would create a vacuum, since Gonzales is recused because of previous White House counsel service. Arriving deputy Flanigan, who also worked in counsel's office, may have similar problem, while third-in-command McCallum is Yale friend of Bush. Comey plans to give the responsibility to career Justice attorney, though the only control Fitzgerald's Justice handler has is to fire him."

This is vague, but it seems to point out that Comey has worked this out, without giving authority to one of the Bush henchmen.

That said, I think Comey's resignation is a sign that not only is the investigation close to being over, but that it will be resulting in some very significant indictments. Think about it: could the guy (Comey) who appointed the guy (Fitzgerald), who will be taking actions that could bring down the White House, be hanging around and within the Bush administration while this is happening?

Edited to fix link.