This is my first post on my own

and I am doing it now because I have finally gotten fed up. I need answers and I need them now. I have lived almost a hand full of centuries through being educated in catholic schools back in the good old days when priest weren't "outed" yet, to marrying early and bringing two very important lives into the world who are now young adults. I need answers to give them other then to say that the bad guys really do win, the nice guys finish last. That even though I've never taught them specifically if there was really a god, is there? I taught them to believe that life was all about being simple, loving and being self supporting. Was I wrong? I need answers.

I have lived through two real wars in this short time that I have been alive, but two that I have felt with saddness beyond my years. I remember when two of my friends brothers were killed in Vietnam, I remember the sadness and absolute change that happened in their lives and mine. I remember this well. I was shocked that most of my generation didn't remember what that felt like when it came time for the second war. I asked my children, "How could they have forgotten, was I the only one that remembered what war felt like?" My children were in their early 20's and they didn't have any answers for me, they only knew war as an 18 day bomb attack that if you blinked it was over in 91, they didn't remember Vietnam. How could they understand. But my generation did forgetand now we are going quickly backwards in time.

I have gotten to the point with all the rights that we fought for so vehemently back in the 60's, that all of them are being flushed down the toilet. And I no longer have the desire to have another generation be born into this insanity. I no longer want my kids to have children. That is sad but I don't know if it's worth it. I don't see their generation wanting to even consider changing the way the government acts like we did when I was their age. Their generation knows more about Paris Hilton then they do about Karl Rove. That's sad.

It makes my head hurt to see life change from one end to another in a blink of an eye and no one cares. Roe vs Wade. I can have an opinion. I had one right after it became legal from finally having sex and was one of the people that Dear Abby talked about. You can get pregnant your first time. And another one after I just had my second kid, I know what the change will mean. My children know what the change will mean. And now we are teaching high school kids that condoms will give you STD's? WTF?

I need answers. I have been reading these posts and finally gaining enough courage to finally comment for the last year. You have been my salvation and sanity in a midwest world of christian, repulicans (how can you be both, I don't get it, isn't that an oxymoron?). I don't have the education or the language skills as 98% of you, but I have a voice and I need answers. Tell me this can't get much worse, tell me that the bad guys don't really end up winning in the end? Tell me why I should want another generation to carry the message when the bullies are taking away all the ammunition. Tell me that we will unite and understand THIS ISN'T WHAT GOD WANTED. Even I know that and I'm labeled an atheist. Is this it? Is this as good as it gets or even better can it get worse? Smart people, give me some answers to tell my kids. Thank you for listening.

in case others do.

WE need to get Hackett into office and make sure the election is fair. Tell me when another opportunity like this is going to happen?
The media is watching, almost hoping BUSH gets a defeat!
If anything can get exposed that would resemble tampering, it may finally get the attention it deserves.
Remember OHIO??!!
Good God man sieze the opportunity.
I've contacted BBV to ask for their position.
I suggest also contacting MoveOn and True Majority for help.
It can be done.

The bad guys can win and the problem is they do not see themselves as bad, they think we are the bad ones.

Its all about religion in the end. For large groups of people in this world and in this country things are moving too fast for them to be able to keep up with. This makes them feel under siege and so they have become active and organized.

Since the repeal of Prohibition they were mostly silent as their last great crusade was a huge failure and a national joke. What started as a trickle in the 80s has become a flood today. The religious right think this country is theirs, the legacy of this country is theirs and the future belongs to them. The rest of us are supposed to follow along silently or join with them. They now have control over large portions of the federal and state govs and yet their leaders still manage to convince them that they are losing. So the money keeps on flowing into their coffers.

To think that people even talk about something called "intelligent design" is a huge joke, and thats coming from a catholic here. Abortion, stem cells, anti gay rights, gov money to religion and more. This is the heart of the conservative movement.

Once Roe is overturned, stem cells are outlawed, gays are deported and all schools have mandatory religious classes and evolution talk is banned do you think they will feel they have won? No way...its just the beginning.

you there's a profit motive there, but hey...

But I am listening to you. I do have hope that this is a swing of the pendulum and that it has to get better. Unlike others, I feel there have been far, far worse times in our history ( Civil War, Depression, WWII ) and for many segments of our population things are much better.

We DID do good, you know. Our marching and deeds did make things better for blacks, women, and gays ( although much work is still needed )I would never, ever want to go back to an earlier era.

If nothing else, thank god for the internet and the wonderful world of communication that let's us get together in a place like DU.

long while, I fear. In the meantime, get a good history of the American Revolution and read that for strength and courage. That fight was waged by a minority of the population and it was fought against the greatest military power of that age. Hard work, sacrifice and time...

What wins is ideas. You are hear and learning. We are glad to have you here with all of us. You are important. Your heart, spirit and voice are important. Know that. Know that sharing information and spreading ideas is what will work to defeat the tyrants who work against the American people, and the people of other nations.

It won't happen soon enough, but we will keep spreading information and ideas. That is how we win

I share your thoughts about grandkids at this time. Am glad my grown daughter has no children, cuz I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better. But for the kids who are here now, we work to restore America and pass the torch of liberty to those who follow.

Looking forward to reading more posts from you. When we need strength, this is a good place to find it. I may need you to strengthen my resolve some days. We are stronger together.

Peace, strength & knowledge!
havocmom

I have only one child (son with wife). About 10 or so years ago, my son (a major environmentalist) said that it didn't matter if everyone started right then to be completely environmentally 'correct', it was already too late to reverse the damage. I got the feeling then that he didn't think it was a world to bring children into.

In election 2004, he was the most politically aware and active that I've ever seen him; he knew the importance of the election for the future. Now, he tries to keep on an even keel, do his work, and enjoy the present. Because, as he says, the present is all we have; the past is over and done, and we may not be here tomorrow or even later today. Right now is all we have, so live and love with your family and friends. That's his view of the world now (he's 36).

i posted right below too.

i think it's an interesting notion -- maybe there's an association -- with liberalism and refusal to breed, so to speak. i've had many people tell me the world needs my kids or else the next gen is fucked. i've been thinking about adoption. there's definitely something iintrisic in the desire to what to impact/help the next generation. maybe i should just teach. :)

but seriously -- what DO WE imagine our unborn children will be dealing with that will be SO horrible as to not bring them into being. blade runner? volcanos? armegeddon? what IS IT that we fear?

i had no experience of lots of things my mother (grandmother) spoke of fondly in the past. no five cent hershey bars. no... well, i can't think of much else. what if our kids see the sky a muddier shade of blue and die a few years younger b/c of pollution -- they won't know the diff. they'll be spending most of their time in the dark at a keyboard like their mom :)

i just wonder about this. there's also the whole Terminator 2, Judgement Day thing.

Siblings, 1 and 3 when I got them (they're 12 and 14 now). Both are highly challenged (the younger moderately autistic, the older early-onset, rapid cycling bipolar disordered with a grim prognosis, she's on the outer edge of extreme).

I did not make the decision to bring them into the world, but I did make the decision to do my best to be their rock, to provide for these two whom, in Bush's world, amount to "useless eaters" in the fetid minds of many. It is against that inhumanity that I stand.

I do have this deep conviction that life is a gift, that every life is precious, that even (as I used to say) "in the slums of Bombay the children still laugh and play". Even though their lives may be shorter, may not measure up to what some call "success", that they breathed in,felt the thrill of life, and experienced moments of joy is in itself a glorious good. I therefore would never encourage anyone not to give birth.

Who knows, maybe that next 6 pounds of streaming protoplasm and proteins will be the One to lead us out of our current valley of death and fear and misery? My hope anyway is, at least, for every birth, that each one build positively on what we have collectively created.

world right now."

i was adopted by my grandmother who grew up in the depression and she said that to me when i was growing up and i'm 39 and still no kids b/c i really took to heart her worries about the future, esp having to do with pollution and oil. she died in 95, before the xtian stuff got too scary with the fight over birth control and evolution. if schools were how they are now -- back when i was growing up -- i prolly would have been homeschooled. she was genuinely scared that i would fall in with baptists and "become a jesus freak."

or worse, pregnant.

I dreamed of what days would have been like if didn't have them. I would be lost. I was born into a republican, peodiphile, catholic atmosphere. I had children and I ran and never looked back. I taught my children the opposite of what I had learned and it worked, they are great, well rounded, opinionated and grounded. I envy them, I envy their beginning with much better then I had, but I worry also, because their battle won't be like mine. Theirs is more like fighting logic with stupidity. I hope I am around for awhile longer (I don't have health insurance, I just eat right and exercise and hope nothing happens).

If your question is was it worth it to have children, hell yes. But it was harder then anything I have ever done in my life, and the most proud I am of anything I have achieved. It was worth it but we were in a forward movement when they were born, are we now?

and this is the time to find your grounding, be it in spirituality, the Constitution, or whatever ideals you have. Then you have the courage to listen and to offer help and ideas.

For those who say that there is no hope-if there is a breath in your body, there is hope. Visualize that which you want to have, and sit back and have patience. It can happen. It will happen. It is happening now.

Wish I had answers to any of the scenarios you address but unfortunately I don't.

I am not religious but I still keep clinging to the thought that what comes around goes around...but it's taking A LONG LONG TIME.

Just be comforted that you are not the only US citizen ready to go postal!

questions. No answers here.

But, a good feeling of community - well, mostly. :grouphug:

at it being one person at a time. My life has turned backwards to help my childrens generation learn. I'm known as a hip mom (but they all say don't get her started on politics). I wish I had a bigger voice so that it would spread faster then one person at a time, but it is all that I have. I am the most proud that my two children live next to me and are self sufficient and willing to learn. I thank who ever (hell I thank myself) that the work was worth all of it for them. But I thought they would have more, hell I guess I thought I would have more. It just scary how fast it has changed so quickly. I remember Watergate, I remember the crumble, but I fear that the crookedness is to big here, this is worse then Watergate, way worse.

spread the truth faster than one person at a time. However, I've come to realize that some people with a message are lighthouses and some are candles. Both are needed. In the darkness, a candle can be very bright. You are able to reach people that the lighthouses can't reach. Your impact doesn't end with that one person. It's like a pebble being thrown into the pond -- the ripples have a life of their own. (Those that you influence then influence others. Some of these people may end up being lighthouses that are able to influence many.)

:hug:

...what most of us are missing, and the reason we feel so down as we watch the world around us, is a community.

Those don't grow on trees, and you can't start to participate in one if the people around you are a bunch of zealots. You have to make an extra effort to find good quality people and keep in touch with them. Sure you may have your family, though for some of us even the family is a bunch of zealots, but we need more.

Fortunately these days we can talk over great distances, so your own little "small town" doesn't have to actually be a small town.

There is a catch, though... you have to figure out how to become an excellent judge of character, and by this I do not mean to be judgemental, but to be able to tell who you should put your trust in, and who you should keep at arms length and extend to them only common courtesy and decency.

DU helps because it is a community of sorts, but at some point we have to stand up away from the keyboard and go shake some hands in person, because we can't make as big an impact in each other's lives from behind a keyboard as we can in person, and we all need to help each other on so very many levels.

Hope this helps. The good guys will win, as long as they can come together into a unified family, of sorts.

but, like everything else in life, you have to make your own answers.

There is tremendous support and relief in being able to share our opinions and angst, but one's ability to articulate or level of education doesn't provide for the answers. The only answer I have ever figured out is that "you create your own reality" both individually and collectively. Right now, there are an awful lot of individuals in this country that are creating a dispicable reality out of fear. They are immune to reason. They are holding on to their version of reality with a desperation that belies their fear and ignorance. The only way to change this is to, one by one, help these people reshape their understanding. How? that is the big question

As to if it can get any worse, watch out--it's guaranteed the way things are going right now.

sorry that I can't be any more positive. I share many of your experiences and dread.

"I don't have the education or the language skills as 98% of you"?

Bullshit, you're more eloquent than 99% of us. If you keep posting like this, you'll be a DU legend.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

Thank You!

what it was, I could cry. Hug your kids and tell them in the end, evil people fail. Gandhi said, "Always remember." I do and pray for the future too.

We need to keep working. The 60's paved the way for a lot of positive change in this country.

IMO, there are too many caught up in a wartime frenzy of support for the "War President".

When the dust settels, we can all begin to heal as a world. In the meantime, we need to fight the good fight and never give up.

Also, you need a :hug:

you have taken it... the answers ... well there are days I share your pessimism, as kids know more about Paris Hilton than Karl Rove, but that is what the Corporations want. I think part of the answer is you and me, talking and slowly chipping away.

Is it easy? no

Did we choose to be here? No

as to your kids... there are days I agree with them, in the short term though. Evil triumphs but only in the short term... in the long term people will wake up but it will take us.. and gosh golly I will give a took that you can take to the supermarket and have some fun with.

http://justicefornone.com/handbills/

Then handbills may seem primitive to you... but they are not controlled by the Corporatist press

;-)

And welcome to DU and you have skills, don't sell yourself short

But I would be lying because I dont know that for a fact.But Rovegate is very encouraging because if there are some major indictments the rush to war will be a topic in the trial.The trick will be not to let them run out the clock before the trial actually starts.It will also make it harder for the new crop of chickenhawks to expand the war.

As far as Roe V Wade I am concerned.If it is overturned its going to be a state by state battle to given women their rights back which could take years if not decades.

Im sorry you are hurting alot of us feel the same way you do.The good news is that we have a chance to take back congress in one year.

Instead of the usual candidate he said she said stuff.Id like to see organizations like move on address the GOP and their values like that energy bill,the bankruptcy bill,theocracy among other issues and how it is antithetical to the things that made this country great.

Its not over yet lynettebro440.We still have a chance to take back our country but its going to take everything we've got and I think most of us here are up to he challenge.Take care.

"There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always."

That means you question the existence of God, not that you deny the existence of God. If you're experiencing a crisis of faith, you might want to check out the Belief-O-Matic quiz at Beliefnet to find a religious home where your beliefs might fit. I'm a clergy person, & it's always been right on the money for me & the people I've recommended it to.

As to the bigger question, do the bad guys win? No. But you have to look at human suffering over God-time: decades, centuries, eons. I think the bad guys and the good guys balance themselves out over time. It doesn't mean a lot of people don't suffer during the bad times. Indeed they do, that's why they're known as "bad times." But don't forget, the Robber Barons 100 years ago were taken down by unions and women's groups that fought for progressive social reform. The progressive movement is on the rise again today, we will triumph again, although, again, unfortunately, not before thousands, probably millions more suffer.

Rabbinic scholars have explored the absence of God in Jewish lives during the Holocaust. Did God abandon his chosen people? One idea that has been advanced is that God exists not "out there," but in the interactions between people. When interactions are impersonal and unsympathetic, the spirit of God is missing in the community. This is both a comforting and disturbing idea to me. On one hand, in a world where blowing real people appears on a screen miles away like playing a video game, such a call to interpersonal relationships seems impossible. But on the other hand, think of your children, the relationships you have with them. Positive change can, and almost always does, happen in small circles that ripple out.

So what to tell your kids? No one ever said that living life was easy, but it is sacred, and holy. It is our responsibility to make it as compassionate a place as we can. Any path that does not seek compassion invites suffering--and that includes apathy. Apathy creates a void that others can fill with community/culture as they see fit. Apathy is as bad as being the person who pushes the button.

Very nice first solo post, lynettebro440. Welcome to DU. :hi:

From what you've written, we're about the same age. We remember the Vietnam War, and the shock of having known people who ended up being killed halfway around the world (and for what?). War hasn't hit home yet for most of the brothers, sisters and friends of the people young enough to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan. After all, "only" 1800 or so Americans have been killed so far in this, the first war of the 21st century... far fewer than the 56,000+ who died in SE Asia... which was far FAR less than the 500,000 who died in WW2. I suspect the horror of war doesn't hit home until people you know start dying. I can understand how folks can, for now, think of the Iraq war as something affecting other people's lives. But at the rate things are going, that won't last. And it's not just war that's an issue here as one considers how life in the US has changed and keeps changing.

We remember when abortions were illegal. I certainly remember the battles over free speech, the right to dissent, the right to assemble (Kent State?), the right to live liberated. There are also issues that we never dealt with and never thought we'd have to... Social Security, bankrupt pensions, the health care fiasaco, the disappearance of the middle class, outsourcing, etc.

I get pessimistic too, and wonder what's going to happen to the generation that's just now reaching the age to vote; an age when they could end up drafted, and ultimately dead, and one where their social and financial security is anything but certain. They could, after all, wind up with substantially less than their parents, which would be a first for any generation in US history. But I would advise them not to accept all this as inevitable. Are these young citizens taking their rights for granted? I hope not, because unless they practice diligence and guard their rights, they are sure to lose them. In the final stretch, it IS theirs to lose. Tell that to your children. Remind them that genuine liberty demands eternal vigilance. And whatever they do, I hope they don't shrug their shoulders, throw their hands in the air, say there's nothing they can do about it, roll over and act submissive.

This picture can seem so bad, that I'm reminded of the punch line of a very bad old joke... "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how was your visit to Dallas?" But I'M OPTIMISTIC, DAMMIT!!! Things WILL get better. It's far from over. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Life will be nicer in the new place. I refuse to give up. To surrender is to die. And I'm not ready to check out.

So there.

By the way, lynettebro440, your writing is just fine. Pretty damn good, as a matter of fact.

and I guess I made it that way because I believe that you can't have quality if you have quanity. My children are like me but have more then I had to start. They have grounding, self respect and are self supporting and they still teach me. We have gotten together about 6 of us all together and we speak but it seems like our voice is getting smaller and the world is getting bigger. I have lost my ability to dream of a better future for them and I can't deny this. I wish I could have given them more, I tried by giving them personally enough to handle the world, but who would have thought it would change so quickly. Thank you for the nice comments on my ability to write. It has taken me a long time to speak out loud to all of you. Thank you very much for the support.

knowing many of us feel this way gives me strength to keep on working for change. truth and love are power.

lynettebro, from your dreams one has hope, a hope for a better tommorrow......together we are a voice to be reckoned with. With unity there is strength. I know things seem dismal, I even find myself being brought down by the present environment, but we must trudge forward. You sound like a person who has instilled "values" in your children, a truely admirable & necessary task. Stay with it, speak up and dream. I leave you a passage from one of my hero's, who from time to time I read his words.

Ripple of Hope
"Few will have the greatness to bend history;
but each of us can work to change a small
portion of events, and in the total of all those
acts will be written the history of this
generation ... It is from numberless diverse acts
of courage and belief that human history is
thus shaped. Each time a man stands up for
an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others,
or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth
a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other
from a million different centers of energy and
daring, those ripples build a current which
can sweep down the mightiest walls of
oppression and resistance."

'Some men see things as they are and say why.
I dream things that never were and say why not.'

Robert F. Kennedy......

I have just come to realize myself that the "right" just want the people who really care to be hated for caring. The "right" want us divided - it works for them.

Life teaches you - your children will learn through their own experiences - you can't tell them a lot, but their experiences will explain your feelings to them.

Thanks for your love and your passion and your frustration and your pain. At least I know I'm not alone. With DU you can never be alone!

I have 15 grandchildren, and I am saddened by the future for these wonderful beings. I received an email from one of the most wonderful men I know - he is a good catholic (almost too good) but all he really gets across to me is that he wants to go to war and fight these evil terrorists...and how patriotic he is and how our boys and girls over there are fighting for us, blabbity blabbity blah.

I don't believe in war. I don't believe in killing. And the apathy we are all experiencing is beginning to baffle me.

I want our boys and girls HOME. And I want them all to come home now. Bush's war is illegal.

Bless you...I hope we all get some good answers soon.

What if there are no "answers" that anyone can give someone else? What if we must all keep struggling and believing in our hearts that a better world IS POSSIBLE despite what our day to day lives tells us? What if we have to cling to that hope, not simply because it is comforting, but because any real possibility will have to be actualized in the face of extremely powerful opposition arising from a variety of intrenched forces (economic, sociological, political, environmental, spiritual, etc.)?

What we are dealing with here, I believe, is a very important moment in human history. I don't believe it is the least bit over the top to say that the whole of the human experiment -- and the human experiment in Democracy -- is at stake. Right now you and I and many others are going through a period of being "disillusioned". That is, many of the things that we have believed to be true are being revealed to us as NOT true. This is very painful and if one isn't careful, can drive one crazy. We need to stay focused in our own lives as best we can, keep on doing what ever we can do to bring a bit of integrity into our personal and social lives. We need to educate ourselves and educate our friends and families about what is going on. And we need to not be at all surprised when we meet with resistance from them. Waking up is hard to do.

About God I will say only this: God is not religion. Religion is something that man forms around whatever "God" is. The "sacred", however, is not something that is man made. If you have a sense of it, then already you are well along the path. It needs to be brought more fully into our awareness every day. That 'seed' is the key to a real, living connection to something that words often only confuse. And I believe it may be THE key to unbinding all the strife and confusion that is leading our world into a dark, dark age.

Welcome to DU.

even the catholic school "in the good old days"

I, too, made my first priority to raise my children to be honest, moral human beings, & am now at a loss to explain all of the dishonesty of this administration. They are witnessing bad guys winning, & to make it worse these people are supposed to be role models. Delay, Rove as role models - how sad.

Welcome to DU, & we'll fight the good fight together.

i've been a quasi-professional "writer" for almost 15 years and have mentored many people who have "voice" but no "schooling." and those who have schooling and have lost their voice. it's not about grammar and usage. not here. it's about real people helping other real people having real problems with the way things are happening. we are scared, angry and amused. we are needy, giving and always here.

i don't think we need to assume god's preference to know *our preference* is to live in a rational world. the promise of "america" is freedom of religion and thought above all else. there's a fight over what that means. now, just b/c the bullies have started that fight, doesn't mean they are going to win.

and it might get uglier before it gets better...

but... in the meantime we will all still share love with our family, and hopefully become stronger for the fight. we pull our friends closer. give the dogs extra hugs. the world might be going down the shittubes but your life doesn't have to reflect it's chaos, fear and anger.

war happens. rapid cultural transformation happens. and we have no idea what the final outcome will be. but i have to tell you -- we have a MUCH better chance of effecting the final outcome when there is instability than when there wasn't like duriing Clinton. remember, nixon finished johnson's great society. history is paradox.

is it 2012, yet?

I have started writing a book of my life. It has some interesting twists and turns along the way. I just thought there would get to a point where it would stop having twists and turns and I could happily write into retirement, with Bush at the helms, I foresee no retirement. Thanks for the encouragement though.

way you express yourself are all the credentials you need. Please post again.

I always tell myself God has a sense of humor.
As humanity's level of consciousness reaches
beyond duality and sees all as one we will
transcend that which thinks it is right.

Another great saying is that all insanities are acquired.

Need is a negative word and is pervasive in society today.
the word only serves to keep you in need.
I can't tell you what is going to happen because i don't know.
Continue to be a shining light to others for their is nothing
to fear. The Meek just might inherit the earth and once again
think of the seventh generation.

and that answer is you. What you just did. That emotion that moved you to write your first post and share your feelings of despair with the rest of us. That same kind of feeling that made you act is also making thousands and thousands of others come alive and act in many different ways around our great country. People being moved to change little things around them every day. These little things grow into big things, after some time and effort, and it is these big things that nobody will be able to ignore.....

and I won't stop hoping until I'm dead. Without hope, there is nothing. The good guys will win. (It's just hard to figure out who they are sometimes.)

You guys have helped me to know I am not alone. I needed to hear that because sometimes out here it gets a little lonely. You have made my day with your kind support. I shall carry it to my children and let them see that we are not alone. Thanks again everyone.

any person questioning bringing kids into their life because of the world, i assure you, we are doing just fine. more than fine. i have a 7 and 10 year old. and if i wasnt so old i be be having another baby, no worry. i have found it is mine to create, and really this mess, peer pressure, our society and culture is nothing compared to what i give and teach my kids

they are little activists. my oldest reads and reads. has a 5oo page chronicle of the 60's he is reading and often comes to me to compare and to understand the differences in time. they prefer tvland, our shows over what is offered today. my son at 9 read black like me. he knows all about hitler and has done major study of that war, especially southern pacific assault.

there are lots of happy good kind people around. dont you meet them every day. we do.

our world is what we create, regardless of all the mess we can look out into. connection with loved ones and children is the most powerful. connection with children, all the rest is insignificant.

i simply see that this world is going thru a huge ass hiccup because of fear. 60's 70's many walked away from god and religion. 80's we had reagan and the me me me. by the 90's, 3 decades people were feeling pretty hollow and spiritually empty. of course, materialism with love does nothing for our spirit. they walked to church. that was good, but......with the fear of 9/11 and the end of the world it was perfect feeding time for the worst of what religion is to grab hold

again, it may take a while, but i believe, when people awken, it will be powerful and huge. one step backwards will give us two huge steps forward

dont ever be afraid for grandchildren. ever. grandparents are the best. they not only give to their kids, by loving their kids, but wow, what they give their grandchildren. they are the best. i look forward to your experience for you

These are questions and observations many of us from our generation ask ourselves. You are asking the right questions, but I think there are no right answers.

I remember Vietnam very well. When I was there I wasn't fighting for some a cause, I was just trying to stay alive and bring my friends back with me. I, too, can't believe how quickly we forget the horrors of war. It is a sad lesson we seem to repeat throughout history.

While I was in Vietnam the woman I would marry thirty years later was in Washington DC protesting the war. I feel she was a voice for those of us who had none. That voice was heard and we finally ended that horrible conflict. I honestly believe that if enough voices are raised today we will pull out of this senseless war we are caught up in.

This administration thinks we are all stupid. They don't realize how swiftly information is shared worldwide throught the internet these days. The lies they could get away with in generations past are not possible today. But they don't realize it and they try to manipulate information for their benefit. The whole world sees through them and someday history will judge them.

You are a good writer and I look forward to reading more of your posts.

I appreciate and share your feelings and many of your questions.

I think in the past it was easier to find answers, especially since we could basically trust one another for the truth. Now it's sometimes hard to know what we've heard over the airwaves or in print is actually true. That's one reason IMO that DU is so helpful, and the support is really terrific. And I've learned a tremendous amount here myself.

I'm glad you found us and that we have you. Keep reading & posting but be careful - DU can be addictive! :hi:

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Read my sig line.

The downside is, sometimes evil can go on for a long time before it is overthrown. I do think, tho I have no stats on this, that more and more people are paying attention to what's going on today. I'm a prime example of this -- never cared before 9/11 and decided it was my duty to start paying attention afterwards. Paying attention soon leads to outrage and disbelief at the disconnect of so many in this country. This site has been an oasis of sanity for me, and I'm happy to see the ranks swelling every hour and every day. As someone else's sig says: LOUDER.

Many who seem apathetic are really living in fear and denial. They don't realize that there is NO way to escape the effects of this spectacular, unprecedented hijacking of our govt and our national resources. A sacred bond of trust has been broken. The corruption in our federal govt is connected to the corruption we see in our communities. Trickle down corruption. Leaders have squandered the capital that WE gave them to work with. They are not working for the majority of us. They are leading us over a cliff. Eventually this realization will catch up with anyone who thinks they can put up a wall around their own little garden. I like to think of this Bush/Rovian Era as like a slowly erupting natural disaster which will draw people of all kinds together because it's so destructive on a grand scale.

Whatever we do to knock back these evildoers we do for all of us-- for those younger ones who are naturally oblivious, for those who keep the blinders on for whatever reason. There's no point in judging them. Suggest to do something consistently to bring about change in an area you really care about (pick one--I know, the list can be overwhelming). Children can help if they want to, but more importantly they see you DOING, they see you fighting rather than being beaten down. They will be supportive as children usually want to see anything positive going on, no matter how small. Tell them they will have to help us adults make the world better. Imagine that next plateau for us...it could be a beautiful place, maybe even better than the one we may fondly remember.

We who harbor "liberal" thoughts all have been made to think like victims and give up on ourselves. It takes awhile to overcome this downtrodden mentality. It takes time to emerge from the cocoon of fear and denial which has been cleverly created for us. It's esp discouraging if you have a sense of bad deja vu, having lived in the 60's--70's. Once you come out into the light for the first time (or out of the bunker) depression is natural...everyone who SEES what is going on now has GOT to be discouraged at times. I know I am. But denial is even harder to deal with than depression for some of us. I call us the fighters--we who can't seem to roll over and play dead. If you weren't a fighter at heart you wouldn't even be here writing this lynettebro. If enough of us come together we can accomplish significant changes. There will be opportunities...we must learn to use the enemy's vulnerabilities (old samurai maxim). If you are always thinking like a victim, you will not see the moments of opportunity.

Yes it's a war between good guys and bad guys--that's always been the human condition (tho maybe not always in the future if evolution goes another way). Take a hard look at these bad guys we envy, who always seem to "win"...actually they are the weak ones, the morally bankrupt. History may say they won but what did they really win? Certainly not freedom, not satisfaction, not lasting accomplishments. They can't even look into their own souls too closely. They swim in lies and delusion. They are victims of their own compulsions. They subscribe to religions only to promote themselves, as they are their own gods. Their lives are never enviable. They need constant distractions, which never give them pleasure. Nobody much cries at their funerals. I imagine them returning to earth again as millipedes and told to try again.

BUT these grotesque predators can cause a LOT of damage to the rest of us if they get a chance to seriously abuse power as they are now doing. It is up to us who see things clearly to oppose their black-hearted agendas. And if our govt is not capable of protecting us against them, then we need to change how our govt works. This is an emergency. It's not too dramatic to say we need to give our Democracy a BIG overhaul. Everyone who sees the truth is needed.

Your sense of righteous indignation comes shining through.
You ask what to tell your kids? Just instill in them the same
family values of justice and liberty and democracy that you express.

Everything is fucked up in this country because some shallow fool like Tucker Carlson gets zillions of dollars to prance around on TV, while a caring, intelligent person like LynetteBro440 has been (almost) silenced and isolated. I totally understand about feeling alone and needing the voices of sanity on DU - otherwise I'd probably be going nuts in this country right now.

I think many of the problems we have came about because of blowhards with megaphones drowning out voices of sanity like LynetteBro440's.

I think DU is a start in the right direction - more people's voices are being heard now. And because DUers can "recommend" something for "Greatest" page, important statements like this one from LynetteBro440 can come to the forefront.

Maybe someday DU will publish some of its "Greatest" posts on paper - or even record them onto CD - so important messages like LynetteBro440's can be heard by more people. Someone riding in their car might be more inclined to listen to a "Today on DU" CD rather than the same old corporate crap on right-wing radio. Remember a CD can be bought for 20 to 40 cents now. MP3s can be uploaded and downloaded on the web. In the Soviet Union, the People used "samizdat" to get the word out - carbon-paper and typewriters (xeroxes were illegal!). Now we have the web, printers, CD burners - if we collectively picked our "best" articles, I bet we could print them and record them and drown out the corporate media.

The media moguls are spending billions on wires, satellites, production studios, promo and advertising. Maybe someday we'll realize that our own giant web of interconnected computers and people can become a broadcast network too. We've started in the right direction and who knows how far we will go. If more people could here stuff like this, the nation would start to heal.

:applause: stefanx
"drown out the corporate media"
--the talking heads of TV news media are ever more boring and tiresome and everytime I hear them I wonder what planet they're on. They are so out of touch. And I think people are realizing this. And like you say, people want to hear some honest voices, not this filtered glossed-over BS we get from the mainstream media.

I just read the Harper's article (Aug 05) "None Dare Call it Stolen--Ohio, the Election and the Servile Press" by Mark Crispin Miller.
It's the most relevant article I've read off a newsstand in a long time. The article details how "the servile press" hid the ugly truth about Ohio from us...but it's leaking out thanks to the internet. This would be a great article to email around, or to print out for those who don't have access. A really good one to give to doubters who said "election fraud can't be a big deal--I didn't see anything about it in the news..." http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x385510

Right, we can't wait around for the corporate media to come around.
They're stuck in some kind of thick quicksand--it's like they keep on hollering but their feet don't move.

you make me want to run for office or something. Thank you.

GROUP HUG!

Other than that just keep speaking up at every opportunity. People will listen. They know they are being fed an endless stream of bullshit. They know the regime is driving us all off a cliff. They are scared, almost too scared to think most of the time. But the fear is mitigated by the voices of sanity that keep piercing through the media stream.

i don't have any answers for you or your kids, but i think you'd agree that we (those of us who are willing to learn, that is) are learning a powerful and painful lesson about vigilance, apparently a lesson we needed to learn. i know i was one of the people who got discouraged and complacent...during the clintion years, believe it or not. i had been alert and aware before, but...well, it's long story, but let me just say that i was disappointment by the lack of progressivism in the progressive circles i was in at the time.
it was a great time for many of us economically, but i admit: i didn't realize what was happening: the vast right-wing conspiracy hillary clinton mentioned and so many mediatalkingheads laughed about was/is real. i saw it in action with triangulation...and with the hunting of clinton. i gave up...and i dropped out. the 2000 (s)election woke me up again, and i'm not going back to sleep.
this is OUR country...we have the right and the duty to make this country live up to the spirit of all the great words in its sacred documents.
it is our duty to oppose those who seek to twist the spirit of all the great words for their own self-serving purposes.
peace.