Christians on the Dealth Penalty:

I have close personal friends who identify themselves as "Christians." They are, especially when discussing the politics of the death penalty, adamentally "conservative." I've come to the conclusion over the last few years that most of their political beliefs are derived from their church (though not their religion), and that it has little basis in how they are as human beings. They truly aren't bad people -- in fact, if I'd been without them, I would be in a world of hurt right now -- but they totally and completely lack the ability to empathize.

OPut latest discussion was about the death penalty, of which these 3-times-a-week-attending Southern Babtists know alll of the political aspects of the argument, but cannot even come close to acknowleding the fact that their religion is against it.

I just read the Presbyterian USA official stance on the death penalty:

have been concerned not only for the issue of capital punishment, but also for those imprisoned. The major policy statements of the past forty years have come in 1959, 1977, and 1978.

In 1959, the 171st General Assembly, "believing that capital punishment cannot be condoned by an interpretation of the Bible based upon the revelation of God's love in Jesus Christ," called on Christians to "seek the redemption of evil doers and not their death," and noted that "the use of the death penalty tends to brutalize the society that condones it."


In 1977, the 189th General Assembly called upon its members to:

"a. Work to prevent the execution of persons now under sentence of death and further use of the death penalty;

b. Work against attempts to reinstate the death penalty in state and federal law, and where such laws exist, to work for their repeal;

c. Work for the improvement of the justice system to make less radical means available for dealing with persons who are a serious threat to themselves and to the safety and welfare of society."

The next year, 1978, the General Assembly went on record as saying "Capital punishment is an expression of vengeance which contradicts the justice of God on the cross."

The most recent statement was made in 1985 by the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), reaffirming these positions and declaring "it's continuing opposition to capital punishment."

The politics of the Democratic Party and the Christian religion aren't mutually exclusive. So how do we rectify the difference betwen the perception of the two?

I have a very close Dem cousin who is a minister in the Unity Christian Church (I think). We've had this discussion about the death penalty. His stance is "an eye for an eye".

He also is anti abortion, but he said he is not a single issue voter, and people who are, are simply not willing to think!

I know the Catholics are against the Death Penalty too, but I have no idea about the other religions like Baptist, Lutheran, etc.

Simply because Jesus was not about an "eye for an eye". Plus there have been way too many people who have been killed through the death penalty only to find out later they were innocent in the crime. I am for helping the person. I have read it actually cost more to kill someone with the death penalty then it is to have them in prison. If someone can change I'm willing for giving them the chance to be a citizen again of the country and living life again. If you're wondering I'm Church of Christ. The church as a whole I don't think we're like the Catholics and whatnot and have issues where we have to be apart of. We're each different and have our own views and everything and we're pretty independent I think.

And, conveniently enough, in my life I have been a Southern Babtist (though there actually are other kinds), a Lutheran, and a Presbyterian.

The Evengelical Lutherans, although possessing a "fundie" name, are the most liberal, and the ELCA is officially against the deathe penalty, as well as homophobia, anti-abortionists, and creationists (though I'm not sure how much is only "official" and how much is believed in by the average congregationalist). One only has to watch evangelstic infomertials to decide how the Southern Babtists feel about most issues (it ain't pretty, nor, in my opinion, is it in keeping with Christianity). The presbyterians are split into two groups, like the Lutherans, but the mainstream (and liberal) wings do not try and "convert" or ostracize homosexuals.

I;m not familiar with the Unity Christian Church, but I cannot see anyone who claims to be a Christian acting within their faith while killing someone else.

but the Catechism allows some wiggle room for decisions of individual conscience, wiggle room not allowed on abortion. I'd like to see the wiggle room on capital punishment eliminated.

That's how Scalia can say he's a good Catholic when he is pro-death penalty.

The statement of the US Catholic Bishops about capital punishment may be stronger, may advocate an end to the practice, no other options accepted. I kind of think it does, but Catholics like Scalia can always go to the Catechism for justification.

It's pointless to go out of your way to show the similarities in Christianity and the Democratic party. Take the death penalty like you said before...If you look hard enough in the Bible, I'm sure there is some scripture one can twist around to mean God approves of the death penalty. In fact, I've heard that argument a couple of times although I forget which scripture.

It seems like some on the right interpret the Bible completely differently than those of us on the left.

And the point of my post is that Christianity and the predominant religion of this country is not necessarily "Christian."

And why is "Christian" in quotes? Because I believe that much of what right wingers believe is supported primarily through other right wingers (there are those who enjoy thinking and those who prefer being told what to think), and those who have bothered actually reading the bible and coming to the logical conclusion.

And, judging by the most recent election, most people DON'T know the difference (assuming there wasn't massive voter fraud).

Many christians are for it and as one myself, I am mystified. When asked about divorce Jesus told the people testing him, that divorce was invented: "...because of your hardness of heart..." Meaning they were not practicing forgiveness. I am not saying the act of forgiveness is easy, nor is it something that "forgets" or should ever put victims back in harm's way, but I sure as heck feel that forgiveness is important for someone who is a christian to practice. IMO for any christian, the death penalty is wrong. And any christian who might think suffering on a cross was "worth it" (which thousands besides Jesus did suffer), then they have missed the message of the miracle that followed it, IMO. To me the reason for being brought back from the dead was a message to the world that the brutality of humans and the lack of forgiveness was so bad that God stepped in to prove a point about such inhumane treatment. Sadly, after 2000 years, it appears some people still do not get the lesson that is right in front of their faces.

My two cents

Cat In Seattle

Forgiveness is easy. It's the forgetting about it that's hard.

Of course, you'll also notice that I said former in-law. As far as I'm concerned, truer words have rarley been spoken. :)

We believe the death penalty denies the power of Christ to redeem, restore and transform all human beings. The United Methodist Church is deeply concerned about crime throughout the world and the value of any life taken by a murder or homicide. We believe all human life is sacred and created by God and therefore, we must see all human life as significant and valuable. When governments implement the death penalty (capital punishment), then the life of the convicted person is devalued and all possibility of change in that person's life ends. We believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ and that the possibility of reconciliation with Christ comes through repentance. This gift of reconciliation is offered to all individuals without exception and gives all life new dignity and sacredness. For this reason, we oppose the death penalty (capital punishment) and urge its elimination from all criminal codes.

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=6385

(Bush claims to be Methodist)

should I be the one who casts the first stone?

from that scripture they need to take a reading comprehension class. They couldn't be further from the truth.

I am not qualified to be judge jury and executioner. My position is this it's the same thing as guns or abortion I cannot tell someone what to do, how to live thier lives, and how to end them etc. Basically you can say that am against making life and death decisions for someone else. And that's what I hate about the gop they dont respect people's privacy.

About the only view that couldn't be maintained is execution for small offenses (theft, jaywalking, public drunkeness etc.). Both those who oppose it in all forms and those who believe it appropriate for very heinous crimes have reasonable points.

issues. One of the key tenents of Baptistism is that it is up to individuals to discern what the Bible tells them on particular issues. Thus the Baptist church doesn't have a creed, like most other churches do. In the late 1980's the Southern Baptists have tacked right on issues like women and gays. I would bet, though I don't know for sure, that the Southern Baptists actually have no position on the death penalty.

creed. Since they've become more political -- the Southern Baptist Church Convention pretty well taken over by the hard-core right-wingers -- they've started making up rules, still having no real creed.

Jimmy Carter left the Southern Baptist Church when the SBC convention decided to say women could no longer be ministers. That ruling also caused an uproar at the SB college where I was teaching at the time. Many Southern Baptists argued, quite logically, that this went against the Baptist concept of "the priesthood of the believer" (anyone can preach) and against their long tradition of each church setting its own policies.

I've never heard of Baptists being opposed to the death penalty, either. That doesn't mean some Baptists aren't opposed to it, just that it's not a popular position among Baptists.