TIME: Rove may have learned about Plame weeks before Wilson's Op-ed

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1088666,00.html

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As the investigation tightens into the leak of the identity of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame, sources tell TIME some White House officials may have learned she was married to former ambassador Joseph Wilson weeks before his July 6, 2003, Op-Ed piece criticizing the Administration. That prospect increases the chances that White House official Karl Rove and others learned about Plame from within the Administration rather than from media contacts. Rove has told investigators he believes he learned of her directly or indirectly from reporters, according to his lawyer.
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Not a good thing to lie about, Karl.

Nominated!

He's going down, but it just can't come soon enough.

I hope you're right, but I think the RW media machine is setting him up for a pardon because Fitzgerald is an out of control prosecutor, as the Wall Street Journal & a few others have claimed.

of course, then we just counter with Ken Mehlman's words about how good Fitz is...

SO glad to be here. I hear you on Mehlman and the rest of the Talking Point Robots. But you can only delay sweet, sweet karmic payback for so long. Karma's a bitch like that.

and it has been patient for a loooooooooong time with this guy.

Welcome to DU, btw!

the reporter from another post here in GD said about the White House like she did. Because they know things are coming. Remember these people like to frame the debate first.

is something I have run out of a few years ago. I'm climbing the walls at this point.

welcome to DU! :toast:

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

then I would need hard proof that Cheney and Junior did not know.

There is enough already to start a congressional investigation.

damn, I was just so ready to believe him.

:sarcasm:

and others all within the same week

we are totally screwed

...they'll have to leave the White House, because no intelligence agency NOT run by White House croneys would EVER AGAIN issue them as much as a Confidential clearance, much less a Top Secret clearance.

So, of course, they'll move right up into leadership positions of the Republican Party, just in time to lead the efforts for the 2006 and 2008 campaigns. Dirty Tricks Ahoy!

The fact is, they're not needed in the White House at this point, they're needed to run the campaigns...the stuff they do now in the White House, agenda planning, strong-arming republican polititians, etc., can just as easily be done from an office in the RNC.

want a solution to this that will avoid a constitutional crisis. Neither side's professional politicians wants to see impeachment and or Presidential resignations to become a common occurrence.

coming, not if anyone around him is truly in control. You can't tell me * is the boss.

George the Elder only got away with it because he was already out the door. If Rove is found guilty and Bush fires him, Republicans will become the Traitor Party and they will get hammered in the next election. With any luck, he'll fight in court so hard the case will still be going on when Smirk takes his worthless nazi ass back to Texas. And the incoming Dem will tell Rover to go fuck himself, or better yet, talk to his cellie and his friends about starring in a big bukkake party.

... to be checking up on Wilson and his wife weeks before his Times' article?

a) They knew from the CIA almost immediately after his trip that he'd debunked their little disinformation attempt. Did he go on an enemies list then?

b) Was Bolton getting progress reports, as a part of his undersecretary non-proliferation job, on Valerie Plame's operation, so that he knew what she was up to, week by week? Were those reports suggesting that certain administration friends in the war on terror were not playing nice in the non-proliferation playground?

c) Was the administration having Wilson watched? Were certain members of the media helping with the watching?

d) "Weeks" could mean two, or twenty. Was the administration worried that Wilson would say something before Bush started the invasion? After all, what got Wilson furious was that Bush repeated a false claim (of which Wilson had intimate knowledge) in the State of the Union address.

e) Something we haven't yet heard about?

Remember that for more than a month before he wrote his NYT op-ed, Wilson had been talking off-the-record to senators, people at State, and a few reporters. The White House was preparing to identify him, and then he went public first.

More, in March of 2003, after the IAEA had concluded the Niger documents were crude forgeries, Wilson had told a CNN reporter that the White House had more information than they were letting on. It is known that on or about 3-8-03, a meeting was held in VP Cheney's office, which began to focus on the "work up" needed to deal with Wilson if he challenged the administration's yellow cake fantasy.

So it could go to the top! And now election stuff is coming out as well. All these scandals are just unfolding. :popcorn:

was exactly what I was going to point out. The whole deal was in the "works" a lot earlier than they would like anyone to believe. Here is the sequence of events:

March 8, 2003 - Joe Wilson appears on CNN regarding Wh claims regarding wmds (work-up meeting occurs a few day after)

June 10, 2003 - Memo written, which included info on document marked super secret about V. Plame

July 6, 2003 - Wilson column is printed

July 7, 2003 – Memo sent to Powell on Africa trip. Fleischer calls Rove from plane.

July 8, 2003 - Novak & Rove speak

July 11, 2003 – Cooper & Rove speak

July 14, 2003 - Novak Column

You can see they were orchestrating moves on this long before Wilson's column, and that business about finding out from journalists was and has always been the most absolute nonsense. Also, as pointed out on the Unknown Soldier Thread, it look liked, in additional to revealing her name, they were trying to place Powell in the position of having been the source. Another mis-direction of the eye, as the memo had been written for nearly a monthe before Armitage asked for it to be sent to Powell.

Was that earlier or around this time?

But all the members were involved in making the case for war long before that.

I'm sure they were quite angry when Wilson refuted their lies.

I think the evidence will show that the WHIG's went into overdrive at this point to put together a disinformation campaign to discredit Wilson. I think they already knew about his wife through Bolton and were likely looking for a way to crater that group because it knew too much about the b.s. behind the WMD claims, perhaps even about the Niger Uranium forgery. It was just very convenient to tie Wilson and his wife together. A sort of twofer, if you will.

I think it's a safe guess that BushInc was looking out for anyone in the intel community that was contacting Kerry. That was a spring of dicontent for many agents furious with being pegged as the fall guy for BushInc's evil manipulations on some levels and incompetent behavior on others.

Usually Rove counters discovery of one of his lies with a bigger, bolder lie. This time he stepped in it by going after the Wilsons and getting blindsided by the appointment of fitzgerald to the case.

I hope Fitzgerald is wrapping things up and hands out indictments before his new boss has a cghance to remove him from the case. It may not seem likely at the moment, but Bushco will go to great lengths to protect the power they have amassed.

Will these people ever learn you don't get anywhere with lying? When I was young I admit I had a little lying phase but I quickly learned about that.

lie you tell, you have to tell 10 more.

Bill Press's prediction was KKKarl will RESIGN before he is INDICTED!

from many of the neocons to have Rove step down. Kind of nice that the president is such a stubborn fellow. (grin)

I kind of want Rove to twist in the wind, hang on as long as possible... more likely an issue in the '06 midterms then.

Of course if he did resign wouldn't that show the public he is guilty? And can anything be done if he's a private citizen?

mention of a civil suit by Wilson that would include Rove.

jail. I don't believe in capital punishment.

thanks for the heads up. It doesn't play here until Sunday @ 12:30 p.m.

I'll look for that segment.

and I hope that the coffee had kicked in and I got it right!

He said the White House started a "work-up" on him in June. He says that Libby openly went around criticizing him, calling him an "asshole playboy." This was well before Wilson op-ed was published.

Wilson also says that he was frustrated with the White House's continued obfuscation about the Niger uranium claim in the State of the Union, and he sent word through some people he knew in the administration that if they didn't set the record straight, he would.

The White House knew Wilson was going to expose their lies, and they got ready with the smear ahead of time.

the white house gets a little more dirtied up. the pressure rises. again, this byte indicates that this thing may be bigger than we dare dream. i'll dream on . . .

Could it be another mole from within the administration? Some infighting perhaps?? :evilgrin: :popcorn:

The other is someone formerly at the CIA.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-CIA-Leak-QA.html?

Questions, Answers on CIA Leak Probe


By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: July 31, 2005

Filed at 12:41 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Prosecutors are investigating who in the Bush administration leaked the identity of undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame. Some questions and answers on the case:

Q: What are the origins?

A: In early 2002, Vice President Dick Cheney read an intelligence report that said the African nation of Niger had agreed to deliver 500 tons of yellowcake uranium to Iraq. In response to questions from Cheney's office and the departments of State and Defense, the CIA's Counterproliferation Division discussed ways to obtain additional information, according to a Senate Intelligence Committee report.

Plame, a CIA division employee, suggested her husband, former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, as someone who had good relations with the prime minister and the former minister of mines in Niger. The CIA sent Wilson to Africa, where he was unable to confirm the intelligence report about yellowcake uranium. ETC

Will Bus pre-emptively pardon Rove? Meaning, will he pardon him before any official indictments are handed down?

I remember hearing this is what Reagan did for some of the Iran Contra folks.

Nothing shames him, he thinks nothing is beyond the pale if it's HIS plans and wishes.

about there not being any proof that Hussein was talking to Niger about yellowcake. Wilson wrote and said that 'editors? journalists? friends? - can't quite remember his exact word) told him that if the word was going to get out he would have to write it himself, which he did and which the WP published.

The famous sixteen words were recited in January. At some point Wilson decided to tell his story. From what we know about Washington, the word would spread that Wilson was going to tell his story.

So what is new in the Time story?

This article and many responses to this thread and others once again isolate and point to Rove only. That is a big mistake. They can do away with Rove in a minute and everyone will believe the criminal has been caught. This is bigger than Rove. Does Time, a right wing propaganda outlet, want to let the Cheney side, or the NSC side, or the CIA or State side, or the AG side of this, of the Mil Intel side of this off the hook?

Do you all want Rove only? If not, then why pursue a Rove only path in words and parameters.

Think what the exposure of the sixteen words means?

First - did your Senator or Rep know the sixteen words were false?

Who exactly in the CIA particpated in this?

Who had the most to gain? The answer is first and last = Cheney, PNAC, the Military and their brother Corporations, and the Republican Party in total.

Are people and journalists afraid of addressing these questions?

WMD. Was she getting to close to some truth that was bad for the WH?

On June 12, 2003 that the article talks about.

CIA Did Not Share Doubt on Iraq Data; Bush Used Report Of Uranium Bid;
Walter Pincus. The Washington Post. Washington, D.C.: Jun 12, 2003. pg. A.01


Full Text (1337 words)
Copyright The Washington Post Company Jun 12, 2003
A key component of President Bush's claim in his State of the Union address last January that Iraq had an active nuclear weapons program -- its alleged attempt to buy uranium in Niger -- was disputed by a CIA-directed mission to the central African nation in early 2002, according to senior administration officials and a former government official. But the CIA did not pass on the detailed results of its investigation to the White House or other government agencies, the officials said.

The CIA's failure to share what it knew, which has not been disclosed previously, was one of a number of steps in the Bush administration that helped keep the uranium story alive until the eve of the war in Iraq, when the United Nations' chief nuclear inspector told the Security Council that the claim was based on fabricated evidence.

A senior intelligence official said the CIA's action was the result of "extremely sloppy" handling of a central piece of evidence in the administration's case against then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. But, the official added, "It is only one fact and not the reason we went to war. There was a lot more."

However, a senior CIA analyst said the case "is indicative of larger problems" involving the handling of intelligence about Iraq's alleged chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs and its links to al Qaeda, which the administration cited as justification for war. "Information not consistent with the administration agenda was discarded and information that was was not seriously scrutinized," the analyst said.



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http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/346162471.html?MAC=e3cee4c008d5d6fbcc45197440c7e1bd&did=346162471&FMT=FT&FMTS=FT&date=Jun+12%2C+2003&author=Walter+Pincus&pub=The+Washington+Post&printformat=&desc=CIA+Did+Not+Share+Doubt+on+Iraq+Data%3B+Bush+Used+Report+Of+Uranium+Bid

talking to ... maybe they are trying to tell us something they are not willing to say in the article.
Wolfowitz was the Jeruselem Post's 'Man of the Year' the year befor last (or thereabouts).

just to take down Plame's work...she was sniffing around arms deals that might have got tin man in trouble.

Saddam yellow cake situation. Cheney must have inquired who the CIA sent to investigate that. As soon as he found out it was Joe Wilson the alarm bell went off. This is when the workup on Wilson was done and when Cheney found out about V. Plame. Cheney told Libby to debunk Wilson and out V. Plame. Rove was contacted and prolly Bolton. Shrub was kept as the mushroom until the shit started hitting the fan. These thugs underestimated Joe Wilson and the SC. This is why the entire RW Machine is on full Assult mode.

just like Watergate, only in Rome and back in 2001, January 17th - the "plumbers" in this case rifled around in some govt papers, then stole a watch and two bottles of perfume..

It's my opinion (does the sheen from the tin foil hat bother your eyes? :) ) that anyone that would break into an Embassy is not a petty thief..

And anyone that has studied Rove (like I have since I'm working on a DVD called "Rove's War" at http://www.takebackthemedia.com ) knows that he not only smears candidates, he will also bug his own office and also put TWO men in jail utilizing the FBI. He made constant use of the FBI to intimidate and basically SCREW people to the wall.

Now since he had that sort of power THEN, imagine what he could do in 2000 or so. He boldly wrote to the authors and bragged about how he could put ANYONE he wanted in Jail for ANY reason - watch Bush's Brain, it's CHILLING.

I think it very possible that this was an inside job, that Rove used or made use of Black Ops pals to get false Documents for later use, when they needed to pull out the "Nuke" option while selling the Iraq war -- it looked like the Bio and Chem sell wasn't flying so they went to plan C..

How ironic it would be to have another "break in" bring down a pResident surrounded by unethical monsters - Mark Twain once said that, "History doesn't neccessarily Repeat itself, but it RHYMES.."

Anyone got anymore info on those Italian Documents, because from what I understand they were tossed by the CIA division in ROME before Langley got to see them..

But of course in the end they just all bullshit and we really don't know - could be the CIA is just getting rid of another Prez, and instead of killing them, the new tradition is to assassinate their "character"..

Let's hope the TRUE Republicans, wake up, and that the media realises there is more money to be made with a nice juicy Impeachment Scandal than to listen to Bush babble at us just how rosy everything is..

I smell something stinky about this break in - might be because it was treated so cavaliarly (sp?) by the writers at Time when reported, almost a throw away story..