Explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old...

...how the hell does the president still have his job after all
this shit?

Every child is taught at their mother's knee that violence is
never acceptable except in self defense. Surely a man that rises
to the office of President of the United States is smart enough
to appreciate this basic moral concept.

Yet, even though he can't prove to the American people that
Iraq posed any imminent danger to the US, he starts a war in
Iraq and thousands of American soldiers are now dead.
25,000 civilians are also dead (maybe 100,000+)!

You simply CANNOT do this unless you have obvious, believable
evidence that everyone can agree on.

Even if you thought you had proof and it turns out you were wrong,
plain, common decency demands that you resign if you caused all
those deaths because you believed a lie or made an idiotic goof.

And boy does the Iraq war look like the mother-lovin' goof of all
time! Throughout the history of politics, elected officials
have resigned for much smaller fuckups than this!

Is there no integrity left in Washington at all? Even if the
president is an amoral villain, where are the opposition voices
calling for an impeachment?? Where the hell is the press?

Nixon should have been president today - he would have laughed
his ass off at this state of affairs!

Follow the $$$$$$$$$.

industry and corrupt corporations, he not only wouldn't have the job, he be under indictment for a bunch of crimes. The people have totally lost any voice they ever had in the say of the running of their country, either because their are stupid and brainwashed (fundies and freepers), or too damn lazy to do anything about it.

:(

That's what my parents always said to me when shit didn't make sense.

It's kind of a downer, I know, but let me say - I have never stopped expecting life to be fair, and when it isn't I fight to make it fair. Is it a futile effort? Possibly - but even small victories make it worthwhile. And I think that is how most people here see it, and that is why we kick so much ass at DU :)

You love the movie Philadelphia?
;)

Sir, are you making insinuations about my sexuality? ;-) No
seriously, I do love that movie!! :-)

then it all goes down a hole when they switch to loving hypocrites, thieves, liars, killers, pompous and arrogant risk takers.

unless they quit believing in what they know to be RIGHT- and GOOD
and become the evil that is the yang to their yin-

Gandhi didn't give in- neither did King, or Jesus, or any number of 'idealistic,- DO-ers,' believing that the only person we EVER truly 'control'- (and even that at best) is ourselves.-

THEY win, when we say 'fuck it' and live as THEY do- in defeat, frustration, and resignation.

i'd sooner die-

i trust my children to be what they 'know' is right- even if that means dying for their beautiful, generous, kindhearted, compassionate and REASONABLE way of life- to live a lie would be a fate worse than death.

there I've explained it to you at a 5-year-old level.

If he understood the simple idea of self defense there would be
no fight :-(

9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
Sorry, I can't hear you!

made by doing so.

"Here you go, junior...more wretched bullshit! Yummy yummy!"

"MMM! Delicious!"

I don't think world events have been this scary since 1933.
If the Repuglopaths get elected a third time I swear I'm moving
to Mars.

--they may not have motivation, interest, time, energy, focus, patience, stamina, emotional fortitude...but I object to people calling "most Americans" stupid. I don't think it's true and it's an elitist opinion. I have talked to a wide variety of people who have plenty of worldly wisdom without big intellectual accomplishments.

I think if we had a media that was really doing it's job and not disseminating so much blatant propaganda, that the average person could EASILY understand what's going on. To some extent they ignore because of sheer overload and a lack of ability to make sense of the barrage of information we are all exposed to. They depend on the media to do that filtering for them, and the corporate media has failed to do that. I don't blame them for listening to RW radio and watching Fox. Until now, there has been a vacuum in liberal news/opinion alternatives geared to the average American.

Ooookay, so you say Mr. and Mrs. Average American lack motivation, they ain't much interested in their futures cuz they gots no interest in politics (the country's driving force). They don't got no energy, no focus, no patience, no stamina and no emotional fortitude. And--and this truly was your best...Joe and Jane Average are counting on the media to serve up factual information. YET, you claim they're not stupid. You're toying with us, right? What you describe are signs, then, of intellect? smarts? brights? You think?

By contrast to your description of Joe Average, how then would you characterize most of the people here on DU? I have to assume that most everyone here live active lives, work, socialize and are exposed to much the same media as anyone else-----How pray tell were they able to figure out very quickly in Bush presidency that the guy is chief rat? For example, why didn't they buy into the official story about 911? Why were they able to determine almost from the get-go that the reasons for going to war were fraudulent? Why by being the exact opposite of your description of Joe Average of course. By using the ol' beano and distilling all incoming information through that mental truth-detector called good common sense. Yep, we be the smart ones (of varying degrees--of course! ;) )

know that they can't trust ANY media anymore?--not print, not TV, not radio--none of the traditional media they are accustomed to. Of course they count on it for factual information. Do you seriously expect them to jump online and do a whole lotta research and
sort through a mind-boggling amount of info to become as well-informed as most of the people on DU? Just not realistic. It takes a lot of time and focus to make sense of what's going on in the world today. Some days it's even hard for people on DU to sort it out. But it's up to people like us to HELP others understand as best we can, esp since the media is doing such a poor job of it. I take that effort seriously, and judging by the number of threads saying, eg "help me with my kool-aid drinking father-in-law"--others are also concerned to provide info and educate in their own microcosm.

Not being intellectual doesn't make someone stupid. Even rabid neo-cons and fundies may not be stupid, just deranged and brainwashed. Nobody wants to admit they have been suckered. Nobody wants to think they live in a frightening Brave New World where black is white, and every "truth" is suspect. But we are crossing a BIG divide in this country, and a lot of people will take some time to really understand what's happening.

You seem awfully worked up about this. :eyes: Toying with us, right?

used to find out political info........for ca 3 years I'd only used it for professional info

--computer use as a news and political information resource has only recently mushroomed (thanks in part to the recent spectacular failures of traditional media) but also just because people weren't used to using computers for that purpose. Even though they might be emailing or using mapquest all the time, or using it for professional reasons, many (smart!) people have only recently figured out that there's some excellent news and opinion resources on the net now.

DU has only been around for what--4 years? Blogs and good news websites have only been around for a relatively short time too.

Most Americans are hard-working, honest people who don't REALIZE YET that our media has become complacent, bought, etc.

I've traveled all over the world and Americans are NOT stupid. They are simply too trusting, if anything.

and also being generally resourceful Americans put up with a lot of the abuse that comes from trusting authority figures and the government too much.

Oh puhleease, stop making excuses for ignorance. I'm sorry, but in MHO--well, okay then, not so humble, if Joe and Jane Average can't turn on the telly and not wonder--at the very least--that perhaps something's wrong in the state of Denmark, then I call them stupid. Clue: When you're listening to a news cast and it's all positive about Bushco and you dig it, then, that's stupid. When you listen to statements like they attack us because of our freedoms and you dig it, then that's stupid. When as you say people are just so hard worked and you don't start looking around to see how everyone else is faring in other western countries, then that's stupid. When you know that the government has had this war on drugs going on for gawd knows how long and you look around and see the proliferation of drugs and you don't pause to wonder why that is, then that's stupid. I could go on and on and on. When you don't use just plain common sense, then that's stupid.

I love you. Never change.

How can I be sure?

..to do anything else would mean they'd actually have to DO something- or else feel the outrage, and frustration that most of us feel-

DENIAL is the worst refuge for people who 'know' better- and the largest 'state' in this union.- it 'hurts' to be aware- it COSTS to 'be aware' in time, money and effort- We have become a nation that wants it all, but doesn't want to have to sacrifice our illiusions- or feel discomfort.

Until the 'price' hits home- like on 9/11- like the rising costs of EVERYTHING- like the fact that so many of our sons and daughters are dying (and worse) for a cause no one believes in- and the powers that be lied to invent- nothing will rouse them from their self imposed numbness- or overturn their raft on de nial, and cause them to wake up before it is too late-

WE are the generation that grew up understanding that authority not only should be 'questioned' it MUST be questioned. And then 'we' sold out- But not all of us signed on - and we need to keep pointing out the bad deal the others have opted for, even if they don't want to hear it-

I'm all for trying to help people get their heads out of the sand. And pointing out the truth as we know it. But it's tricky...depending on people's different defenses there are different approaches. Denial is not always a conscious "choice"--but more like a subconscious protection. Denial can also be a cover for uncontrollable anger and feelings of powerlessness. Denial can indicate stress level--sometimes people really are at their limit for stress and cling to old paradigms like a security blanket. Not everyone is strong enough to be a fighter. Not everyone gets the Big Picture. Not everyone can take the quantum leap...yet. But as they get bopped on the head more and more, they're waking up slowly. Why do you think people should choose pain, suffering, or the frustration you feel? I say that what we do for us we do for them also, and many of them will come over to our side if we aren't hostile and impatient and 'superior.' I think we need the ones who wake up, and they will wake up. Leave the diehards to pledge alliegance to the Chimp :)

we disagree- Why 'should' people choose pain, suffering or the frustration i feel? Because it is part of being 'fully engaged' in life- i lived in denial for many many years, about alot of things, but to be honest, i "knew" deep down, i was 'running'- i was 'lying' to myself- i was living NOT as a choice, but because it was what i was 'supposed' to do- a sheep? .... not really- but giving over the ...'responsibility' i have as a human being in this world, and accepting whatever came along.
i COMPLETELY agree that hostile, impatient, and 'superior' attitudes won't move anyone- except to anger, and dig in their heels- That is why i don't believe 'giving back' as 'good as we get' is worth anything- because, then we have lost all.
Why choose pain? because, the 'cure' for what is killing us, often requires a high cost- Chemo leaves you puking your guts out, losing your hair, and feeling like you'd almost sooner die- Having a knee replaced can be excruciatingly painful, but it is better than living unable to live life fully- giving birth is more painful than i'd EVER have believed, but the end result has proven more than 'worth it'-

Living life to it's fullest- while we are here is something we all can benefit by- and those who 'buy' the line being sold as 'right' by this government are getting a terrible deal, and taking us along with them- so it is in the interest of all of us to live authentic lives- even if those lives suck alot of the time. And to do nothing is actually 'doing something' it is giving 'tacit approval' to those who are doing something very harmful, cruel, selfish and destructive.

you weren't particularly happy living in denial, so why assume others are? Just as you have forgiven your earlier self for not seeing things in a healthy way (until the point that you acknowledged the denial), can we "forgive" these sheeple for not being there yet? And have some hope that some of them will get there, even if the process is painful? Not all mental imbalance is cured the same way or even through the experience of suffering. Being "awake" is better, no question, but getting there may be a lot more complicated than accepting treatment for a physical ailment.

Yes I think we agree more than not, bluer, but I'm just saying that people will choose to accept a painful realization when they feel they can handle it. And for those who drank the kool-aid that point may be coming before too long.

intervention by caring friends-
Friends who cared enough for me, and my children to physically remove us from a very dangerous, and for me, nearly deadly situation.

Now, i COULD have 'gone back'- the desire was there- it was 'familiar' even if it was rotten- and quite honestly 'evil'- but the more people 'reasoned' with me- encouraged me to LOOK- "eyes wide open" not shut-

And the saddest lesson i learned from it, was that 'enabling' someone to do harm to you and others, makes you complicit in the harm- by making myself the 'victim' i gave my 'victimizer' opportunity to continue to do wrong- and hid behind the 'mantle' of 'the suffering servant'- (or in my case- the submissive spouse)

"First they came for the terrorists, and i wasn't one...."

We are all in this together Marions Ghost- for better or worse- those who see 'the better AND the worse' have to whisper in the ears of those who don't want to hear the truth- even if it feels like it is a waste of time.

If we 'wait' for those folks to 'come to their senses'- we may only be able to help them return to the dust they came from- is THAT 'right'?

Would you not warn those who drink the poison, on a daily basis, because the water 'tastes' like crap?

n/t

Love the cartoon!!! Says it all, no?

tried for crimes, accused of crimes, indicted for crimes or put in jail for anything.

Why does this confuse you? There were many of us paying attention in August, 2000 and we told you this was going to happen when bush stole office.

Sucks, doesn't it?

And just to seal the deal, there is no solution short of revolution.

I'm sorry.... I really am.

Where do I sign up?

But you are absolutely right. The lesson is never learned, is it? By some, yes; by the majority, no.

The Averages who live in our respective countries invariably fail to seriously question what they hear or read about their governments' actions and gawd knows they have no inclination to filter the verbiage through plain common sense to see if there's a fit or no-fit. Yep, best to remain comfortable--so easy--and so stupid.

And then there's the "I'm doing all right, Jack" syndrome. But, guess what, Joe and Jane Average, the time's a fast comin' when, alas, you won't be able to say that anymore. But............too late. Damn your stupidity and complacency! And how easily you are fooled by your "leaders" who behind your backs laugh like hell at how easily you are manipulated. You may be certain that they don't think you're stupid, they KNOW it!!

I so agree that it will take an out and out revolution to turn things around--but Joe and Jane Average don't have what it takes to understand what all is involved in revolution. While they may be good at whatever the hell it is they do to make a living, they lack the ability to see the overall picture--a failure which will take a serious toll on them, their loved ones, and alas, us. These guys lack good common sense, vision, imagination, insight, curiosity and are to me abominations as human beings. .

Ultimately, though, the worm WILL turn, but there will be a helluva lot more grief for us all before it does.

this coming. It's a real downer.

I'm sorry.... I really am.

...that any child could understand, shouldn't be put in charge of
the most powerful army in the history of the world! Someone's
bound to get hurt that way. :-(

the 'bullies' often DO get to 'run the playground'-
until, and unless the rest of the kids get hurt enough, or tired of being ordered around, or encouraged to live in 'fear' that they stand TOGETHER and say-

ENOUGH!- i believe that is what you are saying in your initial post-
and i agree that it isn't 'logical'- but sadly, life ISN'T logical, and often FAR too often 'bad' people prosper, and walk over any one and any thing to get what they desire-

Think about it- i came from the generation who rebelled against authority - And sought 'freedom' to the 'extreem' the pendulum swing swung 'too far' in my opinion- and those who lived a life of excess, irresponsibility, unacountability, and rebellion in many cases felt ... lost? cast adrift? i DO believe that is why alot of baby-boomers have flipped to the complete opposite end of the spectrum- and in their desire to find a place of balance and stability, latched onto what they most hated and rebelled against- the sort of authority and abusive power that bush is shoving down ALL our throats (the entire world included)-

Which brings this great lesson to mind from the Lion King-
(Rafiki hits Simba on the head)
Simba: "What was that for?"
Rafiki: "It doesn't matter, it's in the past."
Simba: "Yeah, but it still hurts."
Rafiki: "Yes, the past can hurt, but the way I see it, you either run from it, or learn from it. (swings his stick at Simba again who ducks out of the way) Ah! You See? So what are you going to do?"

We need to look at the past, and question why the present IS as it is- and learn - and teach, for the good of all. (even the bush boy himself)

integrity, morality...in short supply everywhere

Remains to be seen if we have enough citizens who are truly offended by the most spectacular political hijacking in US history. Some may not yet grasp the magnitude of it. Others are sold out. It's all about what is doable, not what is moral.

Do whatever you want, just don't get caught = the New American Century definition of Freedom.

God these cockroaches make me sick. They haven't a moral bone
in their bodies. 25,000 civilians are DEAD FFS!!

How DARE they talk about values and standards of behaviour.
Their acts would shame a goddamn demon!

when they're around. You can have Mikey Moore come over and play. (don't we wish)
:P

9/11 was their Reichstag Fire, they invaded Iraq and Afghanistan without real provocation just like Poland and Austria were invaded. Now they're busy setting up their own dirty little Holocaust to wipe out all the "violent extremists" like e.g. Democrats, the ACLU, gays, Muslims, blacks, etc. and are gearing up for future wars of aggression against Iran and others.

It's all perfectly clear.

The masses were learning how to learn just by communicating to one another.

In the late seventies here in California the oil companies learned that they could get away with turning off the gasoline spigot without any ramification what-so-ever.

In the eighties the Reagan Administration learned they could invade Grenada, Panama and Nicaragua by not inviting the press. Not to mention that is when non-media corporations started buying (NBC) buying TV stations. (As a side-note, I am glad that NBC is wondering why they are losing money).

During the nineties the media rammed down our throats SEX-MONEY-SEX-MONEY-SEX-MONEY and other non-existent threats. Example, planes are going to fall out of the sky the moment the clock goes from the year of 1999 to 2000.

The year of 2000 to present, hey its Micheal Jackson, another missing white women and who is the MC of American Idol is screwing.

Probably goes along with our worthless education.

:rant:

I thought I was the only one that was seeing it.
People have lost their jobs for an off color joke, this is too much. Thousands are dead. What is going on here.

When will this madness end?

KL

Up is down. Black is white. right is wrong. Nothing seems to make
any sense any more. Orwell would have had something to say I'm
sure :-(

small gangs of happly married gay couple can't roam the streets gang raping straights thus turning them into homosexuals too...

bad people sometimes win- and they often take alot of what otherwise might be 'good' people and convince them that what they want, is what everyone should want-

But, watch them closely- because what you see are very unhappy people who are SO afraid, they need to kill people that scare them-

They are peoplethat never really feel 'good enough' or 'loved' or 'ok' because unless they can make other people feel bad, or poor, or stupid, or afraid, they aren't able to just play, and have fun.

They are 'bullies' TJ, little boys and girls who hide inside grown-ups bodies, and do things that are wrong, and mean, and selfish thinking that no one can stop them-

But some day, they will understand- and for most of them, it will be too late to do anything to make 'right' what they have made so very wrong-

So, don't let them trick you into being like they are- because the only thing they CANNOT take from you- is what your gut tells you is right- and the right to be who you are- even if they say and do mean things to try and make you into 'them'.

i was wrong

he lied

he doesnt seem to be in trouble. i dont get it obviously

Once upon a time in a great kingdom not far away an evil monster gathered his brood.

They looked out upon the kingdom and the monster Xurd said “We shall take this kingdom and make it our own and use it to takes the riches of kingdoms all over the world”.
“How can it be done?’ they asked. “We are ugly and smelly and bite people, they hate us. They will never give us their kingdom”
Xurd cackled and belched. He turned to Xurdlock and said “Tell them how we will cast our evil spell’

Xurdlock waved his magic turd over Xurd and suddenly Xurd looked human, something never seen in Xurdland before. The Xurdites gasped.
They explained that shifting appearances and looking like humans in the kingdom was just a part of it. They had been working on the plan for many years. They showed pictures of some humans in high places in the kingdom, known by human names. But held to a special lens their real faces appeared.
The Xurdites gasped! There is Xinky, and Xut and Xart and Xuckyou and Xituponyou and countless other Xurdites not seen in the dark land for ages. So that is where they went!

The plan went further as the Xurdites were in place. They had the magic known as money and power and cast a spell upon the people with the stink of major fear. A darkness fell upon the land and they convinced people it was the light and urged them run to it’s safety. The humans under the spell would give them all power. The humans the spell didn’t work on would still be frozen from action for a while, wondering why they saw monsters where others saw kings and heros.
That would be the time to move swiftly. War disguised as peace and hate disguised as love and greed disguised as progress, Xurd principles as morals so scurry, scurry, as quickly as you can Xurdites!

Those who saw rightly realized the Xurdites had put the people in a slumber and shouted out to rouse the people under the spell.

“Traitors!” Xurdites claimed. They’d wave the flag of the kingdom to keep the masses hypnotized and under the spell.

The See-ers grew in strength and the Xurdites rushed to put their plan in place, barely staying in disguise. “Bad is good! Good id bad, backward is forwards, up is down” they’d say, waving the flag.

Something was going wrong with the spell. People were starting to smell the stench and catch glimpses of the monster. Light was returning to the land, flaring here and there, growing in strength.

The Xurdites met, now uglier and smellier then ever. “WE will not be stopped. We must save the world for Xurdites.”

But the people had a plan encoded in them that was coming into action. A hero was born within millions, the price and princes began to recognize their calling and their worth.

Well son, it’s time to go to sleep, the hero needs rest to wake for the new day. The story is to be continued. But as you go to sleep dream of the happily ever after.

should lose their career by going off on a rant about Smirky. It really is hard to believe how so many are silent.

why should they lose their careers, or be attacked by the vicious rightwing spin machine? Given the tactics of * supporters, a certain degree of fear is well-founded. I don't expect newscasters, politicians or other public figures to martyr themselves by going ballistic. I DO expect them to chip away, diligently, doggedly, relentlessly--doing everything in their power to expose the web of lies surrounding the Chimp and his gang, and the effects on the country. The ones who do that will have my support--the ones who don't, who make no attempt--will be jettisoned. It's easy to sort out the people you want to pay attention to now...they tend to be fairly independent of mainstream media, with a few notable exceptions.

PS--I nominate the OP--TJ--to do a fiery liberal radio talk show on Air America--s/he does good rants. Do it someplace where you won't get fired!

'To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.'

much much more: http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free_nn4.html

they lie, deceive, cover up and spin to the advantage of themselves and their own.

Bad people can stay in charge because dumb people believe the lies that bad people tell them. Even when those lies are really, really big.

:hi:

,...torturing, breaking laws, killing, exploiting the weak, usurping public wealth, and being a complete and total asshole.

Aren't ya' PROUD?

Damn!!! These bastards sure know how to pull a whole country down into their SICK, HEARTLESS, MIND-FUCKED DISEASE!!!

I'll NEVER forgive them and I'll NEVER forget them!!!! EVER!!!!