OK, here's the story folks...(Secure tinfoil hats before proceeding)

EVERYBODY now knows it was Rove.
Wilson named him in the "Frogmarch" speech
The Guardian has already outed him
Nancy Pelosi is openly talking about the relationship between Rove & Ashcroft in her bid for a special prosecutor.

Rove did it in a fit of impulsive rage like the one mentioned in the Bush's Brain book where Rove was screaming and ordering an aide to"Fuck" somebody who had crossed him. That's a classic psychopathic behavior pattern.

BushI had already fired Rove from his campaign in '92 for...surprise...leaking a story to some guy named Robert Novak.

My bet is BushI wants to get rid of Rove, get him away from Junior, seeing that Rove is not only a psychopath (that wouldn't bother Poppy) but a dangerously stupid one who has already led Junior into Reeeeealllllly big trouble in Iraq (with the help of the PNAC sharks). Poppy no doubt still has friends in that building they named for him, and the Spooks Club has decided that Rove is a liability.

Rove is going down.

Press or no press.

Ashcroft or no Ashcorft.

I have to go take my lithium now.

... who chose not to behave in treasonous activity toward their government.

Why? 'Cause I wanna buy 'em each a beer!!

I mean, HE is ultimately the one that outed her to the whole world. The only question we should be asking now is whether Bob should get the death penalty or not. Personally, I am vehemently against the death penalty, but Bob is so damn in favor of it that I think it would only be fair to respect his opinion in a matter like this.

Too bad Bob will get off scot free.

and maybe wear a jumpsuit , like they did to Susan MacDougal.
THAT incident screams for reprisal.

freedom of the press.

See also: New York Times v. United States

this information was nowhere close to as secret as the pentagon papers in my opinion.

did novak do something stupid? quite so. there were better ways to write this.

Should Novak be prosecuted? No effing way.

Don't nail Novak. Just cream Rove & his co-conspirator. If they hadn't leaked, there would have been no crime. And there will again come a time when a reporter publishes leaked information that some administration wants to keep buried, and next time it may help save the nation. Damn hard to write the laws to putlaw a Plame story but permit a Pentagon Papers story.

The other journalists did not publish the story or the name for good reasons. The story was not important, the name did not add anything to the story, the name would endanger people's lives, and citizens did not need to know the name in order to understand the game. Novak broke the rules of ethics. Ask CIA operatives how they now feel about Novak. Risking the lives of people for nothing but political intimidation? That's freedom of the press? Wrong. The name was not necessary in any way whatsoever. It did not discredit Wilson, it intimidated him and others who might tell tales. That was the purpose. It wasn't meant to inform the public, it was meant to be a political hack job. Novak is guilty of being an asshole and endangering people for no reason other than to intimidate his political enemies.

However, that's not a criminal offense. His behavior was unethical, partisan, reprehensible, etc. but not criminal. If journalists were licednsed like lawyers, psychologists or doctors, there would be grounds for pulling his license due to the ethical lapse. But his actions were not illegal, and shouldn't be. Licensing boards have the ability to look at the details of professional behavior in a way that criminal courts cannot, partly because they are composed of professionals specially trained and experienced in the ethics of their respective professions, so they are expected to function differently than a set of laymen on a criminal jury.

what Novak did was illegal. You are probably right. My point was that "legal" is not that important to me because laws are just made up rules, and usually made up by people who use them to protect their wealth and their asses. More important than legality is morality. I believe in a free press and the right to publish whatever you want. However, I believe in free speech so that I can nail the bastard who uses the free press in an immoral and unethical manner. Novak screwed up. What price should he pay, if any? I don't know. But I hope he will apologize and that readers will be more skeptical about what he writes. Maybe the best punishment is that no one will read what he writes anymore.

As you say, they're not licensed. They don't have special rights that you or I don't. If identifying a CIA operative is illegal for a government official, or a private person, then it is for a journalist. 'Freedom of the Press' is 'Freedom of Speech' for everyone else. It's just that journalists expect to exercise it more often. As the old saying goes, it doesn't include shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater - because that endangers lives. The law prohibiting CIA operative identification is for the same reason.

because I'm wrong. As AP points out in another thread, the law against revealing the identity only applies to those with authorised access, or engaged in 'a pattern of disclosure' or something similar. So I can't see it applying to Novak (or any private citizen, unless they do it all the time).
Obviously I should read before pontificating.

Did Bob leak the story to oust a CIA operative (treason)? Or did he do it to expose criminal activity in the BFEE (hero)?

Take your pick.

Had he been trying to screw the BFEE, his story could have been straightforward: "X of the Bush Administration approached at least 6 reporters with the name of a CIA undercover operative. This illegal and treasonous action was apparently taken in an attempt to punish the agent's spouse, who had the exposed the administration for falsifying intelligence data." etc.

He will be called to testify and he will be ruined, if not imprisoned. But he will have a book at the end of it all.

Unless Rove likes 3 way calling you don't have ANY case for treason.

gin

That's supposed to be their job, to find the details that people want hidden from them, and report them to us. I'm tired of the manorial attitude of the media, who only tell us what they think we should know. That's mind control for most people, who can't see beyond what they're told. I want a media that reports the stuff the government doesn't want us to know. Our mainstream political media should be as aggressive as the leeches following Ben Afleck and Jennifer Lopez.

The real problem is whoever leaked the story. Rove, Bush Daddy, Bush Baby, Asgcroft... They use the media for their own ends, and don't care who they kill or endanger doing it. They are supposed to be protecting information like this, and the lives of those who are entrusted to them, like covert operatives. And here they are, for petty revenge motives, leaking, endangering, and undermining any intelligence operation connected to their leaks.

Novak was doing what he was supposed to do, albeit in a one-sided way (he doesn't seem to report everything he knows if it would harm Bush). Blame those handling the tool, not the tool itself.

I agree with the post that claimed that Rove might be a sacrificial lamb, here. We all know that this type of trick is standard fare for the entire administration. Rove is high enough up to make a good story if he falls, but not high enough up that he will hurt Bush if he does. After all, he can still do much the same thing he does now without a title. They want him more for the campaign than for government duties, anyway.

Novak and the names of two Newsday reporters are listed.

Josh Marshall, at TalkingPointsmemo.com notes that two journalists for Newsday, who, after David Corn at the Nation, were the first to discuss this issue, are listed by the AG in the memo telling white house staffers to save all email, phone logs, etc.

So...the journalists who were approached, would seem to be

1 and 2 -the Newsday reporters...can't remember their names

3. a reporter at Time mag (based upon their article following the Newsday one)

4. Andrea Mitchell (based on her comments)

5...then there is Novak

6. don't have a clue

This is my speculation about Time and Mitchell, but based upon the articles and information they've given.

as always, Jackpine! :crazy:

Haven't seen you around in a while.

I think you & I founded the Tinfoil Hat Society around here on about 9/12/01.

Seems like centuries ago, doesn't it? Does something tell you this is the scandal that will stick, Jackpine? When the CIA says "Enough is Enough", you gotta know the county is in rough shape!

nt

With so many reporters speaking "off the record" that it was Rove who contacted them and "shopped the story", I don't think they can keep this quiet for too much longer.

Read MATCOMS thread...a lot of hope there AND it matches your theory pretty well. Poppy may be criminal thug, but he was at least smart enough NOT TO INVADE IRAQ!

Irony of Ironies...Poppy's CIA may end up performing the most patriot act of all....(removing Dubya)

on edit: how 'bout some liquid lithium? :beer:

Packers.

Yeah. I saw Matcom's thread too. Lots of parallel thoughts happening on the board tonight.

even though it was ONLY the Bears they beat!

Where were you at Bobfest? Madashell and Sybylla said you were going to be there.

that dadcom knows what's up!

On the contrary, it seems pretty much right on.

A very likely scenario, seeing that Bush had Rove bounced from his '92 campaign because he leaked info.

But I think Chimpy has a say in all this because he relies way too much on Rove. He knows he wouldn't be there without him. * won't let him go without a fight.

Finally, I found some tinfoil that fits me *turning to admire in the mirror*


I'll take it! :tinfoilhat:

I don't think Poppy is one of the good guys. In fact I think he is one of the main bad guys.

He's just a much smarter psychopath, who can see trougle Roving the corridors of the White House.

A smart psycopath will at least avoid sinking the whole ship.

It's the DUMB psychopath, you've got to watch really close.

is making a comeback.

I posted it earlier:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=441389

sorry I missed your post.

and the two of us came up with the same idea. It's very plausible.

"Karl Rove said that Wilson's wife is fair game." If no one else confesses in a day or two, it's Rove.

lmao

If there were really 6 reporters called, then the story will leak out. Not officially, but the Washington press corp will know. Or think they do.

BTW, no lithium needed. A plausible hypothesis.

They will have to kill Rove, he knows far to much and is just crazy enough to spill the beans on where the dead bodies are.

This is going to bring em all down IMO. They won't be able to control their anger at eachother, plus the CIA has something on all of them.

I hope you're right.
And I hope the CIA does a full dump of what they have, all the way back to JFK, but I know they won't.