Are they that arrogant?They thought we wouldn't find out that they lied?

I really don't understand. Have they gotten away with so much that they just thought no one would care when no WMDs showed up? The blantant lies (even I knew the uranium tube story was false when he said it at the SOTU). I don't understand how they let this happen-why didn't they plant the WMDs? Did they think a glorious victory in Iraq would overshadow everything. Help me understand. Is it because the war turned into a quagmire?

Look at the guys running this administration. Almost to a man, they are sons of rich men who've rarely been called to account in their lives. Bush is really just the MOST spoiled of a bunch of spoiled brats.

They've never had to take responsibility for their errors, so why should they have planned to do so for Iraq?

Yes, they really are that arrogant.

throughout every abuse they heaped on us. Thugs. Remember how they insulted the other world leaders left and right - entire continents - when not getting their way. How they threatened us (are you with Saddam?) if we didn't accept their lies as gospel.
Even now, their worry about "credibility" reminds me of lines from the Godfather of the Sopranos. No one seems to care that thousands died because of their lies & incompetence. Not even the half awake media.

The question doesn't come up. The only relevant question is the accumulaton of power, and neither you nor I, nor any person of conscience can compel the empire-builders to undo any action. To them, our concern over truth is merely a sign of weakness. Think of Machiavelli on steroids and cocaine.

how much more arrogant can you get?

They considered the SOTU an advertising campaign.

IT was just one big commercial to sell the biiger, new and improved, Gulf War II.

Offer not valid in all states.....

is bankruptsy gonna be declared?

What they're counting on is blind patriotism, American hubris(we sure kicked ass over there...etc.),and an apathetic public.

It's starting to unravel on them now........

I havent heard about anybody lying yet.

his entire life. It comes as a great surprise to him that there may be calls today that yes george you are responsible for what you say. And in keeping with standards set by christian conservative moral absolutists in the 90's, presidents who lie about anything should be removed from office. george lied, but how in the name of god should he be held responsible??? He is a man of integrity after all.

They never thought anyone would question them or their actions, figured they'd just cow everyone with cries of HERETIC - UNPATRIOTIC ... looks like they finally overstepped. Whoops

Sue

they've never been held accountable - not by Democrats, not by the media, not by the people. Why would they think anything would change???

Did they truly think we wouldn't notice? Probably not, but in their calculations it was an irrelevancy. After all, they've been lying and fudging and relying on "technically correct" crapola from Day One of this corrupt administration (remember the "trashing" of Air Force One).

What I'm sure is causing consternation in the West Wing is the fact that they're having to go over this more than once, and that the issue hasn't just gone away. Problems always have in the past: A potentially damaging story is pasted over with a lame-ass excuse, somebody says "case closed" or "move on" and the presstitutes dutifully comply. I suspect the administration will spend another couple of days repeating their "get over it" mantra before they lose what little patience they've got and really start swinging back.

That will be a crucial time. Will the media duck, cower, and mutter "Sorry, sir, won't happen again" or will they stand their ground, and demand a few answers about the reasons so many thousands had to die?

As long as soldiers are still dying, the lies are still killing.

Nothing is in the past.

but no, it's not that they thought we wouldn't find out that they lied. They just didn't care.

They were taken in by a confidence man. Chalabi told them they'd find all the proof they'd need. They never expected to go in and find nothing more menacing than a trailer used to launch weather balloons.

Bush made unsupported statements because he was sure the support would develop after the fact. It didn't. Now he looks like a chump.

If someone who hadn't been to a place since 1958 told me something about it, I don't think I'd stake a quarter million troops and my career on it without some further evidence and proof. But maybe I'm smarter than the president.

To be honest I'm not sure why they aren't. And nor are they! Bush is looking very plaintive these days.

This time they've gotten called on it, and the more they try to spin, the more deeply mired they're becoming in the quicksand of their lies.

I think they're victims of their own propaganda. They believed that the Iraqis would welcome them with flowers and open arms. They believed that many Iraqis would lead them to the secret weapons locations in return for money and safety or just out of the sheer relief at being liberated.

Think about it for a while. If the BFEE thought they would NOT find any WMD, they would have planted some in advance. The fact that they did not is, IMHO, the smoking gun to support the contention that they beleived they would find some anyway, and therefore their belief that Iraq had WMD was actual and not really just a front for a cynical lie.

When they didn't find any and the Iraqis didn't throw flowers on the armed forces, they were truly stunned.

What we're seeing now is the result of a highly insular group of people who do not and will not allow dissenting opinions, finally having to face up to the fact that their collective reality dreams bear no actual relation to reality. In the world of psychoanalysis, this is called cognitive dissonance, and the result is usually a mad scramble to find ways to make the fantasy and the reality match, however remotely, in order to continue with the agreement reality.

So they run around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying every possible explanation or rationale until they either drop with exhaustion and admit they were wrong, or people accept their rationalizations.

Since we, and the world, are not going to accept their rationalizations, they are doomed to fall as soon as they run out of steam.

It's truly a lovely sight for those of us who've been watching their collective psychosis for some time now.



http://kucinichforpresident.com - Kucinich Is The One
http://cronus.com/prayer - One of Kucinich's speeches

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13 - cute little buttons
http://bushspeaks.com - sardonic political toons
http://cronus.com - enlightening and educational liberal fun

Conceptual Guerilla

I think the strain of this scandal is very distressing to Bush. I heard him give several comments to the press recently and they made no sense. He sounded like an idiot. Oh, wait, that's normal.

:hi:

even suspected that this would be like any of the other countless lies they have told to further their own best interests? They have gotten away with every single thing they have done, why is now any different?

I don't really have all the answers to that and I don't care. The truth comes out, their arrogance is exposed and being widely talked about. I couldn't be more pleased on that count~~it's horrifying though so many had to die in order for this to happen.

Julie

You can be damn sure this scenario was planned for, and no doubt the plan to make it better is in full swing.

We probably won't know what it was until after it is done.

that the administration let all this come out last week because Bush was away in Africa and didn't have to face American journalists right away. I think they purposefully let all this information come out now because we're still a good ways away from the election and they believe there's enough time for people to forgive and forget and still vote for this F**king idiot.

Hopefully Rove was unprepared for the amount of flak they're getting now, though. Let's take advantage of it!

Only conclusion I can ultimately make about this gang of thugs. NOTHING they do works!! NOTHING - other than successfully installing a puppet-whore-moron chief executive that would do what he was told - NO questions asked!! But even THAT choice!! Holy shit!! Would you choose a Chancey Gardner/Ted Baxter/Barney Fife/Gilligan/Eddie Haskel/Dan Quale combo??? An AWOL "recovering" alcoholic, coke addict, who never held down a real job in his life, and happened to share his name with one of the most UNsuccessful presidents in U.S. history!! A man who's favorite book REALLY seems to be "The Hungry Caterpillar!!" THE BUSH CABAL IS FILLED WITH FUCKING IDIOTS - WHO HAVE DUMB, RIDICULOUS, GUARANTEED-TO-FAIL IDEAS!!!

That's what having supreme power bestowed by someone other than the Amerikan People does to you.

That's what having a spineless opposition where the strong members keep "meeting with accidents" and dying or conveniently becoming the target of Right-Wing Anthrax Assassin.

That's what happens when you have no fear of a Gelding Press and a Nazi-stacked court system.

That's what happens, in short, when you purposefully with a multi-pronged plan that bears numerous suspicious resemblences to oppressive socities like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and Afrikaner S. Africa, decde to destroy a democratic-reupblic in order to go dancing with the corpse.

Welcome to DU!! :toast: