The Busheviks are going to get away with it.

I had hope. I no longer do. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Stay with me here...

General Honore comes in and is touted as a hero restoring order to New Orleans. He is now spinning madly to protect the Busheviks. The coup is complete. We are now a dictatorship.

What has gone unnoticed is, since early this morning Posse Comatatus has been suspended. Had Clinton dared such a thing, it would have been an open Civil War, but those who would hav decried such an act under Clinton now support it wholeheartedly under Bush.

This is a significant event. These bastards know survival psychology, and failing to respond was a cold, calculated maneuver to have the nation BEG for a military presence to restore order. Now, this will be utilized as justification for them to move in with the military any place at any time. Killing of Americans by American military forces is now an acceptable option.

In our humanity, we have called down the retribution of a military dictatorship.

It is done.

to do so?

The coup was successful.

We are now a military dictatorship.

Your thinking he might go Pol Pot on us?

for this president who seems to think it is all set up for him and foolish Congress seems to let him get away with it. Since 2000 I have wondered where all the money comes from that he hands out to his pep churches.

They underestimated the loyalty of the corporate media. It is too late.

"It's too depressing - I don't want to hear that stuff."

I've been thinking that way too. But week after week, after they collect the dead, and hopefully investigative reporting brings to the public Bush's role in all this before disaster struck, things may turn out differently.

It all depends on the Democratic party leadership and the media, what they do. We will just have to wait and see.

rule, is occupied by Halliburton et. al, and all of the family members and friends who could possibly identify the dead are now separated from the city? No way is there going to be an accurate death count for this tragedy (and I'm not referring to the obvious inherent inaccuracies due to decomposition abd bodies being washed out to sea, etc.)

Three stolen elections and no response from the Democrats.

Need one say more?

gives the President credit for sending him.

They WANTED people to be so hungry and thirsty they would break into stores for food and water. They WANTED crackheads os desperate they would start roaming the streets with guns. They WANTED the authority to use the full force of combat troops on American soil.

why the hell do you think the term "refugee" was trotted out so early on in the mess.

This was a cold calculated move. We are now a dictatorship.

I remember it distinctly because it was a huge deal at the time.

IMO this insidious catastrophe was all just typical of bushit's who gives a crap if people die attitude and when the media got ugly bushit had to actually react.

With the racial component thrown in bushit will be lucky if his own military will continue to follow his orders in the coming months.

I think he's toast this time JMO

by moving enough blacks out of Louisiana so that it will be a solid red state. The evacuees are going to be resettled to either solid red states(eg Texas) or solid blue states(eg Michigan) so that they won't affect the outcome in those states.

Watch first for a lot of finger pointing from the shrub at the local officials to deflect the blame onto them. Then the amount of money that will be poured into Louisiana for the 2008 election.

Carl Rove is still the puppet meister at work.


RegexReader
$USA =~ s/Republican/Democrat/ig;

His own Repukes are gunning for him.

peace.

we were sending help on MONDAY!

All the college repubs are disgusted.

The bitch is gone.

The old rules are gone, blown away by Katina. They won't be getting away with much. Don't be swayed by the talking heads. The VAST majority of Americans have been disgusted by the criminal negligence of the Bush Regime. It's days are numbered.

It took the focus off of combat troops being deployed in a combat role on American soil.

Peace.

having faith is no longer an option.

longer an option (like it ever was for me anyhow.) BFEE has destroyed this country... and now Posse Comitatus.

...but I think you're right about this being their opportunity to establish Martial Law by taking advantage of yet another disaster. They simply held back help to civilian authorities until everything fell apart and then stepped in to fill the void. The Bushies realize that their criminality is finally exposed for the whole world to see and that the only way out is to officially put themselves above civilian law.

I believe this is simply the first step in declaring Martial Law in the entire US when another distaster or 'terrorist attack' hits.

For those who guffaw and believe this is simply tin foil thinking....hold on because it's going to be a very bumpy ride. And don't expect any help from those Democratic leaders secretly allied with the Bush cabal.

Can someone direct me to more information about this Posse thing, and when did he do it? Was it on TV? Did anyone on TV or online media comment on it?

of the military as law enforcement on U.S. soil.

Bush suspended it this morning to allow the 82nd Airborne to act in a law enforcement capacity in NO.

It's amazing to me that such a thing could happen in a southern city and nobody say anything about it.

Thanks for the information, Walt Starr.

the old blackman run amok scare into white people. That's why I know this whole "disaster" was an "accident" waiting to happen.

I wrote about this early on and people said I was a kook. Bush is more powerful than ever now and it slipped right under everybody else's nose.

The episode is one of the most shameful in our history. And we got a lot of shame in our history.

that votes for democrats, that is why. Real sickening. And it wouldn't suprise me to see the nest of rats slither out of this one too. After all, their only "accountability moment" is the ballot box. And we know how screwed up that is.

in New Orleans, and that they are fighting the insurgency. Here is the thread with the article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4639752&mesg_id=4639752

Per Wikipedia:

There are a number of exceptions to the act. These include:

- National Guard units while under the authority of the governor of a state;

- Troops when used pursuant to the Federal authority to quell domestic violence as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles riots;

- The President of the United States can waive this law in an emergency;

- In December 1981 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies—including the Coast Guard—especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews.

- Under 18 USC 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threat involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a Nuclear or Radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect US military preparedness.

Evil endures.

that undoing with our vigilance, pressure, talking to everyone we know....this is the opportunity - it is tragic, utterly tragic, that it has taken such a horrendous event to peel away the Bushveneer and show the rotton internals to those who had not gotten it previously.

not after watching the crimes and how they get away with it for so long.

and they'll get away with more than this

shit

I agree with you Walt Starr. They have conveniently turned this horrific natural disaster into their 2nd New Pearl Harbor.

feeling and all alone, obviously though I'm not so alone.

Damn.

Peace,
anarchy1999
S

thing people can turn to in times of crisis. Things went well last week for the BFEE. The destruction of democracy in America is almost complete.

They've decided to place blame in two places: local Dems, and the "bureaucracy" (damn that federal government!). Shithead bush actually blamed the bureaucracy, when he was the one who expanded it by putting FEMA under the massive Homeland Security department. The last time we had a real president, FEMA managed just fine in responding quickly and effectively.

Walt, does this make a difference? From what I read, Posse Comitatus was suspended in the "affected areas".

Is there a time limit on this?

I don't know the ins and outs of this, but I'm hoping this isn't as dire as you think it is.

The truth isn't known yet.

The Washington Post has a pretty scathing article out today... aimed mostly at the multiple vacations taken by high-ranking administration officials that delayed the response. I just posted it in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4638890

The verdict won't be in for weeks, maybe even months. But it will be decided in the court of public opinion, rather than lame congressional committees.

Sure feels like it to this New Orleanean.

my friend but we are not giving up.
:grr: i still have my anger and focus.
hang in there Swamp Rat we love you.
hiley

n/t

God, I hope you're wrong, but it makes sense in the peverted Bushworld we are now living in.

for non-law enforcement activities such as providing relief to people and such.

"Killing of Americans by American military forces is now an acceptable option."

Fine. If you want to roll over and die be my guest. Me, I'm even angrier now than I was in May of 1970--and at 62 as opposed to 26, I've got a hell of a lot less to lose now than I did then.

Four years ago, in October 2001 we attended a politcal meeting, After the meeting we were invited to get together for coffee at Cafe Brazil. I asked a question of someone I had been impressed by in that meeting and his reply has haunted me every since, (he and his wife became very dear to us, invited to our wedding a year later, outside of family, although I must add all our friends were at a very special retreat being held that weekend). "is it too late" and I was told "yes,I believe so, sorry, I believe in our lifetime we will see people leaving this country in boats just like the boat people we have seen try to come to get to here."

AT SOME POINT IN THE NOT SO DISTANT FUTURE THERE WILL BE PEOPLE FLEEING THIS COUNTRY, THESES BOUNDARIES WE CALL THE US OF A. God Bless us all, each and every one.

Are you "rapture ready yet"? The times, they are a coming.

Put on your tin foil, I don't care, take it as you will.

I'm sorry all, I'm feeling kinda bad for everyone right now, I'd like to change our world.

What in heavens name is wrong with a Department of Peace and getting rid of our "WMD's"? The US is the world's single largest producer of WMD's. Wrap your brain around that one. WTF?

When you get your brain wrapped around it, then decide to do something about it. No more excuses. Get involved, it is the only way you can take help to take back the US!

Pretty fucking sad that we are going to have to form a resistance movment in the formerly free states of America, for petes' sake.

where the guest said that Bush was tring to make this into a "Law and Order" scenario. On today's show, the person commenting said Bush had failed. But it is becoming clear they are still trying to push the "New Orleans is Out of Control" meme.

Please, someone find this quote.

Honore should not have restored order & NO should have been allowed to continue from within a medieval nightmare?

Bush should not have waived Posse Comitatus, which bars the military from being used as police.

We can have 200,000 troops there, no problem, but building stuff, moving stuff, handing stuff out, rescuing people.

But not acting as law enforcement against their fellow citizens.

The city will be locked down, no way to get real info on the death toll, no news on what is built first, no info on anything.

It's a bad precedent. The opportunity for misuse of the military is a bad thing.

What's worse is being one of the troops ordered to shoot other Americans over stealing something. We get into the murky waters of "should I follow that order, is it just?" The Nazis followed orders. Our troops should not be put in this position.

the mayor of NO has already said as much; the stories of gators eating people & the dead are already in place, similar stories are already some of the most heart-breaking folklore america will ever write, it is all too possible to look right past what needs to be seen. contractors were shot trying to repair infrastructure, trying to "build stuff", it is not possible to condone such acts on either side.

when the entirety of the social fabric snaps we'll all be dealing with individuals for whom "Posse Comitatus" will not be worth two figs. thrown to the likes of they i hear you suggesting that there is no noble entity in either event. that to my mind is the absence of reason.

what is your solution?

I don't think we're in the position I posted earlier, I was just posting what I believed the original poster meant.

I am a pessimist at heart though, and don't know if this disaster is going to change anything.

Look at all the previous disasters. Nothing changed.

We'll see how it turns out, no I don't see troops in the streets next week or anything, but I don't think everything is going to be as peachy as a lot of people here do.

They will get away with it like they always do.

the american landscape is so strewn with apathy that someitmes my sense is that after; and it may be sooner than any of these hyper-various threads are able to allude to; but soon NO, as well, will become part of our mass imagination. the lounge is already back to the likes of this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3958334&mesg_id=3958334

and these are some of the indicators as to what may follow & when. thanks for the zap back, friend. please do keep the faith

b ~

After seeing posts in GD, I figured that was just a zoo. :-)

The good person in me can't see this country going into the toilet further than it already is, because *something* HAS to happen to pull us out.

But, I am pessimistic and cynical, so I look at our track record. And don't get happy.

it is 'a zoo' from time to time.

although with respect to GD; having performed social science research, while no longer desirous to view people as 'subjects' still...it can be too easily seen as a microcosmic sampling of a vast proactive ability actually, to, as i'd mentioned, look right past what needs to be seen what has caused me the most pause of late. a form of shape shifting, cyber-hysteria. but it's all good. people got'ah be people imo.

we are agreed in most dear earnest here however: "*something* HAS to happen to pull us out", that would be in a normal setting merely showing up at the polls starting election 2006 & voting these bastards the hell out of office.

being caught giving up ground the next time around & we may as well quit bitching & throw in the towel too.

Between WMD, I mean freedom, I mean oil in Iraq, Hurricane Katrina, gas prices, job loss...

If these are brought up.
If the Dems promote non-braindead candidates.
If the voting isn't tainted.

Things can change.

If the issues are smothered.
If the Dems promote morons again.
If the voting is fixed.

We'll see more seats lost, they'll own 2/3 of both the house/senate.

I have a counter on my other computer that tells me how many minutes until election day 2006. As it gets closer I am going to volunteer to be a poll worker so I can watch the whole process myself.

We'll see.

Army, marines.

And despite the media coverage (hype?) it appears the "civil unrest" in NOLA was nothing on the scale of LA's in '92. I think it was the LA Times had an article where NG arriving in NOLA were surprised to find exhausted folks in need of assistance and not the battleground they were told to expect.

Anyway, Bushco isn't to be trusted but FWIW active duty troops previously have been used in a law and order capacity. (And yes, it was Bush the elder in '92.)

But they do have different charters. (technically)

federalized when the feds took over. (NG later restored to state control.)

"The city will be locked down, no way to get real info on the death toll, **no news on what is built first**, no info on anything."

This is all about more Halliburton war profiteering! THIS is how they get more billions out of us--the last dregs of our bankrupt coffers!

And there's a report they killed 5 or 6 people today in NO. The news reports are mostly B.S.--and somebody in a thread here was tracking all the changes to their story. Sounds like (reading between the lines) they had an armed convoy of Halliburton/Titan-type death squadders reconning, some people approached them for help, they shot them dead, and are now making up stories about the people shooting at them.

The thing is, they've got to clear out all the dross, before they can start draining all the money out of Congress and out of the donation funds (huge help offered by multiple countries) to build hotels, mansions, casinos and whatall for the rich, with--you can be sure--impenetrable security--confiscate all the property and the dwellings of the poor, and get this boondoggle going, so they can turn NO over to their billionaire buds.

Same thing they did to Baghdad--fomenting looting and desperation, then creating a police state, with Halliburton et al building 15 permanent U.S. military bases, and the U.S. commandeering mansions and whatnot, and "reconstructing" everything inside their compounds--all at extravagant expense.

It's all starting to make sense.

But, actually, I don't agree with Walter that Bush is more powerful than ever. I think Bush is toast--his usefulness to the war profiteers is over, partly because there is no way he can get a Draft without serious civil disorder, and also because he just doesn't have the political cache left to move into Iran and Syria. They need a War Democrat, coming in on a wave of progressive promises, to do those things--and to start taking the blame for the results of eight years of misrule. I think that's the plan. And then, after the War Democrat has served their ends, and when they've discredited him/her, we get Jeb in '12. That will be the actual end of our democracy.

The War Democrat might fool them, and be a great president (except for the carnage in the Middle East), and, truly, almost anything he/she does will probably look good compared to the Bush Cartel. NOT looting Social Security. Employing poor blacks in the rebuilding of NO. NOT nuking Iran. Like that.

But things are SO manipulated, what with Diebold and ES&S counting all our votes with secret, proprietary programming code, and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies endorsing whatever numbers they come up with, it's hard to say whether even a popular War Democrat can hang onto power. Persuading that War Democrat to encourage the progressive policy of election reform might be possible. It should be our FIRST priority--since, without the right to vote, we have NO power over anything at all.

I think that the suspension of Posse Comitatus--while a terrible and scary precedent--is just so they can loot us some more. They really don't have the forces to implement martial law nationwide. The Nat'l Guard is decimated. The military is stretched way beyond the beyond--and inside revolt is likely brewing over it. They're going to be under a strain just to hold NO. They don't have the personnel. (That's why they need a War Democrat--to get a Draft. Cannon fodder badly needed.)

But there is going to be hell in NO and LA in the meantime. They have done a lot to destroy morale and have removed most blacks from the city, dispersing them all over the map (--although there are some folks hanging onto their property; I heard one man interviewed on Laura Flanders; he says that 20% of NO is not affected, and there is no reason to order people out of those areas, and he and his neighbors have stuck it out and intend to remain there.)

Then there is the wildcard of the Fitzgerald indictments. It feels to me like there are some forces looking to check the Bush Cartel's excesses--especially Cheney's. The misrule and criminality are just amazing, and we probably know only a tiny part of it.

I don't think we're at the end of our democracy yet. For one thing, I am totally convinced that we are living in a progressive country, where the great majority of people want peace and justice, and are fair-minded, tolerant, generous and good-hearted. The polls over the last couple of years show this overwhelmingly (60% to 70% of the American people disapprove of every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic). I have a lot of faith in the American people. I think we are disempowered and DISENFRANCHISED, but I think we still have a good chance to overcome it.

NEVER. There are just too many of them and people spread far and wide. I disagree. This will only work with the hard core 30% BushBots, if that.

Nobody was mindin' the store. Utter, complete incompetency of the drunken baseball boy's minions. We are all the robbed shareholders of this company. Hopefully it will piss enough people off.

here's hoping you stick around for a time or two, help us work this shit out would'ya; appreciate the french moniker as well :thumbsup:

:kick: :patriot:

I'm sick of this! Get the fuck out there and FIGHT!!
A leadership without humanity and a population without GUTS.

Stop whining and get the fuck out there and FIGHT!!

Do you live in an urban area? Do you live in the midst of a non-white, non-property owning population? Because that is the division that will become the boundary and battle-line drawn. We the people have lost if race and class ultimately divide this nation. It is time for revolution. It is far more comfortable to sit at a keyboard and sigh in resignation that "all is lost" and be able to go the 'fridge for another glass of wine or to the cupboard for a few more chips. What's that snack next to your mouse?

The Bill of Rights are at greater risk today than at any other time in US History including during the McCarthy era. Oh yes. Sit at the key board and self-righteously moan about the trials and tribulations of loss. Take another cheez-it.

True: This country needs your research, your analysis, your communication. I think corporate media - this time around - is actually peaking in to the DU threads. I turn to the DU to read what's "out there" in order to boost my morale. So, between slices of hard salami and just two more cookies before logging off for the night, for god's sake, when the time comes, put down that piece of munster cheese, triscuit and chardonnay, put on your running shoes and hop to it. Really. It is time for real revolution.

Cheers.

but what's with all the references to wine & snack items!?! please say it's not prejudice, i'm tired of that shit too.

around here, is "see you can't have the GOVERNMENT do anything right, they are always incompetent" Meaning this should have been giving to private industries if you want it done right, or States Rights arguments...Which I point out would have made it worse, since even more people would have been dead if you leave it up to the profit makers and that States don't have enough resources to deal...

I told them straight out that FEMA worked when it was a cabinet position, but of course their guy goofed that up with his pretend 9/11 commission and their recommended strategies of combining the agency's into one Homeland Security (bastardizing the Democratic Plan of Homeland Security) which tied the hands of local and states to get more help in there until Bush signed the paperwork. (in the FEMA directive, there was also a part that the Secretary of State had charge of domestic disasters, meaning Condi was AWOL as well as Bush) or simply stated Condi once again can say "I didn't know that was my job" just like in the 9/11 hearings where she said that plus "No one told me to do anything about it."(the PDB saying binLauden determined to attack in the U.S.)

rousing success. Maybe they can get Ken Lay to run what's left of it, seeing as he was a successful businessman and all...

My RW boss is one of those that spew that rot, he has a home in Florida, and I told him he better not be in Florida the next time a hurricane hits, the way the response was this time. He said he was happy with the way FIMA worked the last time his house got hit...I told him good luck now...

EARTHQUAKE... fema worked fine..in fact Clinton put in many incentives for construction to get finish way ahead of time!

this desplay of murder in my book..is on the back of bush and his prostituting fema ..
we had insurance companies come in immediately they came in as teams ..under fema..and had help to us almost immediately..they were teams put together after hurricane andrew...it was incredible the organization and the people skills these people came and treated us with...food water..the works..they left nothing for want...and now seeing this..well all i can say...alot more people would be alive from this disaster..if democrats had been in office..i can tell you that from experience ..i lived through it..
this inexcusable murder in my book..we should and must.. see many held accountable in this administration..to the highest office( *) in this government..
they should be held on murder charges!!

there is no excuse..none ..zero...and i don't want to hear one excuse!

my tears and heart ache...
and now my anger is incontrollable!!

fly

...in my mind that BushCo would do what they've done since 2000: use their vast media network to deflect responsibility and blame away from themselves and use disaster to their own political benefit. This was expected by anyone that has been watching the Bushies since they pulled off a bloodless coup in 2000. No small feat in and of itself. All they needed was lots of money, friends in the right places and a Democratic leadership willing to sell out the people to advance their own political careers.

Sinking into infamy faster than anyone in history?

bad under Clinton. The truth is already out. The plan was for disease, quarantine, and no body count. They can't make that happen now.

As for the 82nd, these are hard men needed for a hard job. It will be months they say before the city is drained. They may well have many of the dead recovered by that time.

The wind has changed. Go to freeperville for a visit. (By the way, does anyone ever ask a question over there? (See I, just asked one so as to not come across as too preachy.)

The victory was won last night when the Gov refused to do whatever it was. It is all over but the weeping. I'll do that for the rest of my life.

we need a clear and concise time line of the events as they occurred. Especially anything that would show FEMA denying aid to the victims. This leads right to the shrub (I won't even call this murdering son of a bitch president anymore). The shrub is weak, his popularity is down, he's vulnerable. Stay focused...

Calm down, have a stiff drink or whatever is your poison and then brush yourself off and then come back. We've got a lot of work to do to take back our country but they are not going to win. Not this time. We are better then that.

two days ago. I was told here that I was mistaken.

I believe there is a time limit when you invoke the national emergency clause--something like ten days.

I still have faith that the horseshit meter will go into the red, and the country will wake up.

but we'll win in the end.

about the funds HE made available to fix the levees and he wondered, on NATIONAL TV, where those funds went. :) WE and Clinton know EXACTLY what happened to those funds....THE IDIOT gave them to Iraq and HS. Nope. The idiot is TOAST. This whole disaster is HIS fault.

Then, we have the asshole eating cake, attending a fundraiser, strumming on a guiter and playing golf $%^&*&^%$#@! while citizens DIED. He's finished.