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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:31 PM
Original message
I'm rethinking how I feel about Blanco and Nagin
Multiple failures caused relief crisis
Analysis
By Paul Reynolds
World Affairs correspondent, BBC News website

The breakdown of the relief operation in New Orleans was the result of multiple failures by city, state and federal authorities.

There was no one cause. The failures began long before the hurricane with a gamble that a Category Four or Five hurricane would not strike New Orleans.

They continued with an inadequate evacuation plan and culminated in a relief effort hampered by lack of planning, supplies and manpower, and a breakdown in communications of the most basic sort.

On top of all this, there is the question of whether an earlier intervention by President Bush could have a made a big difference.

<snip>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4216508.stm

Looks to me with an objective analysis of the facts in the situation, there is plenty of blame to go around. This is immaterial, however, to the question of wether or not Bush is culpable in the fiasco. He is, and he , as all those responsible, should be held accountable.
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MadeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Perhaps but who is Paul Reynolds?
:wtf:

Nagin at least didn't have even enough funding to prepare a huge response and evacuation plan at all, FEMA had all the plans in their office and its not like Nagin magically had them!

What was he going to do? Even if the Governor was not aware of how to handle this, what was Nagin going to do with FEMA and Administration failing to respond?
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. AFEAM soesn't conduct Searh & Rescue--the NG & Mil were needed stat.
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:37 PM
Original message
Why didn't they use the buses to get people out?
I have never understood that. Would the blame for that fall on the shoulders of the local, state, or Federal?
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Where would they go? The buses barely had time to get them to dome
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. Probably a failure of creative thinking
:shrug:

I don't know. You'd think a mayor would know about scchool buses but from readding the article, school buses fall under the state and the governor had to release them.

:shrug:
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
53. Was school even in session yet in New Orleans?
If not then who is to say the busses had even been maintained or gassed up yet this year.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. at best ... 5 K out of 100K+... no big difference ...
IF there were drivers.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. See post 9 last paragraph.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. explain to me where the Mayor of NO would have sent those buses to?
He only has jurisdiction over New Orleans, not other cities or states.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
46. True - it would have required tremendous pre-planning
Central mustering points for catching the school and city buses would not have worked. The people presumably catching those buses would have involved those without transportation or those too infirm or elderly to walk. And although New Orleans isn't a large city, it is still a city and walking several miles from all over New Orleans to a central mustering point for buses in the rain on the eve of the hurricane would not have been practical and would have required many hours of walking and many individuals missing those buses.

The only way of doing it would have been to send the buses into each neighborhood and doing it in practice runs on several prior occasions so that people would know when, where, and how to catch their neighborhood emergency bus. But that would have involved shutting down the entire city to practice those drills and moving out one third of the city simply as an exercise.

As far as where to send the people, I think the Mayor might have sought to arrange with private churches upstate to receive each bus in their parking lot and have the church or church school house the evacuated people, as well as to have provisions ready. Public schools might also have been destination points, as pre-arranged. But that would have required enormous coordination and willing cooperation. It might have been done, but it would not have been easy by any means.

While there is some blame to be given to the Mayor and Governor for having had no real plan, the greater blame belongs to the Republican Congress and the President for having failed to ensure that the levees were made strongly enough and for the wetlands to be restored as a protective barrier. That was criminal, in my opinion, considering the scientific evidence out there before this disaster and also considering the way our tax dollars are being wasted in other pet Republican projects such as the dreadful Iraq fiasco.
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nyhuskyfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Before the Hurricane?
Logically, evacuating an entire metropolitan area would need to be a federal undertaking. You need more than buses for an evacuation -- you need a destination that is safe from a Category 5 hurricane.

FEMA should clearly be in charge of an undertaking of this scale and work with local, state and federal agencies to secure whatever they need -- be it some school buses, helicopters, a Naval hospital ship, cruise liners, military bases, private and public shelters, the Harvard crew team, etc.


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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
52. Who would have driven them?
Not trying to make excuses but logically how many school busses would you need to move 50 thousand people?

I saw the photo on Drudge--how many busses are actually in that photo.

How many people would those busses have held?

Were they all in good repair?

Was there enough fuel available to fill those busses?

And lastly...who would have driven them?

I believe a school bus would hold 24 adults? (I don't know)

Divide 50 thousand by 24 (I think? Right?)

I am rounding off at 2000 busses being needed to get 50,000 people moved(and that is low) because I don't feel like doing the math.

Would the city have 2000 bus drivers handy?

I thought I heard they only had 1500 cops on duty so where would the extra manpower have come from and lastly could they have forced those people into service to drive those busses?

An evacuation of that nature IMO could only have been accomplished with a massive influx of federal help and added manpower--$$$ etc.
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Be Brave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. There IS plenty of blame to go around for things done or not done
both before and after the hurricane. But the thing which sticks out is that after the hurricane hit, it seems that everybody was trying to do their darned best to help with the rescue effort with whatever resources they had available, except the federal government and FEMA, which were bogged down in red tape and politicking. For all their talk about being prepared for a terrorist attack, they were stuck in their paperwork.
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Qibing Zero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Yes, this is the conclusion I came to as well. nt
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. FEMA officially took control August 26th - go to white house web site
n/t
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Like I said, it doesn't mitigate Bush's culpability one iota
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 04:49 PM by Walt Starr
but I certainly would like to think that local officials would do things first and face the consequences later (i.e. commandeer school buses contolled by the state to get people out).
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nyhuskyfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. They still needed somewhere to go...
On Sunday, a Category 5 was bearing right down on the entire state of Louisiana. You can load 500 buses with 20,000 people, but without a save haven to shelter them as a destination, just as many major problems can arise. Bring them a half hour away and they might not have to deal with flooding, but instead they will be left vulnerable to a horrific storm without adequate shelter.

A mass exodus of school buses heading to the Astrodome might have been an effective strategy on Sunday, but the mayor of New Orleans has no jurisdiction on anything outside of his own city limits. FEMA, however, could arrange those types of things.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Under the Homeland Securirty Act of 2002, any responsibility held by
Blanco and Nagin must necessarily be secondary to the responsibility held by the DHS.
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julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. I'm trying to find it and can't
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Here it is, it was posted on the 27th, but was in act on the 26th
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. I dont even think this part is questionable at all
"On top of all this, there is the question of whether an earlier intervention by President Bush could have a made a big difference."

You really have to be mentally challenged to think it would not have. bush should have been on the job when the NOAA warning came out on Friday or Saturday. But I guess shmoozing with big money types is more important for him. Now thousands are no more.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. wow, you're easy. i have a piece of property in florida you might be
interested in. :)
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Check this out about evacuation
A Way Out

The emergence of homeland security stresses the importance of evacuation management
Despite advances, the subject of evacuation has been a widely overlooked issue within the transportation field.

- BRIAN WOLSHON, PH.D., P.E.

One of the more critical, though commonly overlooked, aspects of transportation planning and management is evacuation. This is not surprising since evacuations have largely been viewed as a regional issue with a low probability of occurrence. Over the last five years, however, homeland security concerns and the problems associated with several evacuations have brought more attention to the need to improve evacuation planning and management, a subject that has been overlooked within the transportation community. But this view is changing.
Look this way

Reliance on highway-based evacuations has grown over the years. Prior to the construction of the interstate system, there were limited means to move people out of major population centers and few places to shelter them once they did. As a result, sheltering in-place was the most common method of early civil protection. More systematic approaches to evacuation planning developed during the Cold War in response to the threat of nuclear attack and grew more sophisticated in the ’60s and ’70s to protect against nuclear power plant accidents. Hurricane evacuation planning also advanced during this period as satellite meteorology gave weather forecasters the ability to track storms several days out to sea. In more recent times, the application of computer modeling and geographic information systems (GIS) have been used to analyze the traffic conditions associated with cross-state evacuations.

(snip)

Improved evacuation of low-mobility groups

Transportation infrastructure in the U.S. has developed to serve vehicular traffic. While reliance on personal transportation works reasonably well under routine conditions, it can cause significant challenges for emergency management officials. The number of people without access to transportation in New Orleans has been estimated as high as 25-30% of the population and includes over a quarter million people. In addition to people without vehicles, potential evacuees can include the indigent, elderly, prisoners, the infirm and tourists. Evacuation of these low-mobility and special needs groups is an area that, while included in most state emergency operation plans, has been largely unaddressed by DOTs.

Busing has been the most common mode of transportation for low-mobility groups, and in the past emergency management agencies have contracted with local transit authorities, school districts and tour operators with varying levels of success. However, many heavily populated cities do not have a sufficient supply of buses to move all low-mobility evacuees. The total number of buses in all of New Orleans would provide only a fraction of the capacity needed to transport all of these people. To counter this problem, Louisiana emergency management officials are working through local churches to encourage “good neighbor” strategies in which neighbors with means of transportation would assist those without during an evacuation.

http://hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/tmemag0404.htm


Another DU'er included this link along with other great resources here:


The Katrina 'Prior Knowledge' Laundry List.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2059085&mesg_id=2059085
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MadeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. See this tells it all. The feds are in charge of funding their plan.
They didn't act.:grr:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. The blame lie entirely with the Bush Administration
The Dept of Homeland Defense and FEMA.

Go read the National Response Plan. The Governor and the Mayor both did everything they could. They asked multiple times for help. FEMA would say it was coming but it never did. Even Monday after the storm passed Nagin asked for Black Hawk helicopter to come drop sandbags on the levee before it broke. He had the bags, he just needed the helicopters. FEMA said they were on the way, once again help never came.

Nagin tried to call Bush 3x's on Monday. Of course, Bush never returned his calls.

Please quite promoting this bs. Thanks.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. Blanco and Nagin failed in many areas, it is undeniable
but all that pales when it's realized that PRIMARY responsibility lies with the Department of Homeland Secuirty.

This is the law that Bush desired. The Homeland Security Act of 2002 was passed by Congress and signed by him into law. Since then, PRimary Responsibility must be laid at the feet of DHS.

The responsibility born by Blanco and Nagin must be considered secondary to that.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Where did they fail?
Show me the proof. I've been following this storm since last Sunday Morning.

I listened to Nagin and Blanco all weekend sending out calls for help and then coming back on the air two hours later to say the help didn't come. They asked FEMA numerous times for help. FEMA would say it was coming and then it didn't come.

ttp://www.wdsu.com/index.html has most of the original reports from the beginning of the disaster. There is plenty of evidence here that will prove Nagin and Blanco tried to do their best for the people of LA and NO, while FEMA and HS Failed to Do Anything on Purpose.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Biggest failure of Nagin and Blanco
No adequate plan for the evacuation of the 20% who were unable to evacuate.

That's about it.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. That was FEMA's job
1. HS/FEMA never told Nagin were to go with the buses. He is only the mayor of NO. He can't force anyone else to shelter the evacuees. That is up to HS/FEMA to coordinate.

2. HS/FEMA told Nagin and the people of NO that the Superdome was a safe shelter. Nagin had no other choice but to send the people there. Once they arrived HS/FEMA never showed up with the food and water required to maintain these people for even a couple of days. Before the storm one shipment came in of MRI's that was about enough to feed 10,000 people for 2 days. HS/FEMA knew they were there and did as little as possible to help them.

This whole blame game, pass it to the local level is pure Rove spin.

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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. There can't BE an adequate plan at the local and state level!
It's impossible for a disaster of this magnatude to have ANY kind of adequate plan at the state and local level. They simply DON'T HAVE the resources. This is what the Feds are FOR... to provide the resources that the state and local governments DON'T HAVE.

This wasn't anything close to a local disaster or a state disaster... it was a NATIONAL disaster, and the Feds totally dropped the ball. How is it that local and state governments can be held responsible for a NATIONAL disaster when they did everything they possibly could do without the help of the Feds? And in fact while the Feds were busy SABOTAGING their efforts?



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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
55. Where is the National Response Plan? (Link?)nt
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. After the immediate crisis is over
we can investigate everyone involved, and heads can roll as appropriate, whether on federal, state, or local level, whether Democrat or Republican (and I think this will show there is blame to share, but that the federal government was utterly incompetent and negligent).

But for the immediate term, Brown and Chertoff must be removed for the safety of the American people. At some point, a grand jury can investigate whether or not charges need to be brought against them, but for right now, they must be removed from their positions. They're far too dangerous and incompetent to keep on the job for even one more day.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Rummie needs to relinquish control too
He's been officially in charge since last Wednesday.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. Having watched the local news streaming during all this, I saw
the press conference with Nagin asking about the mandatory evacuation and he pointed out that until they could find a way to exclude those in hospitals where there wasn't the resources or people to safely evacuate them, they could not legally issue a mandatory evacuation.

There were 200 NG at the Dome when people first went there, we saw them searching the evacuees before allowing them to enter. The question that remains there is: Where did those 200 National Guard go afterwords, and why?

The evacuees were told to bring supplies enough to last until Tuesday. The reason for that day being given was because, according to the plan, FEMA would be there by then with what would be needed.

In reading the article, I can't help but see this as armchair quarterbacking as there is no quotes from those who are being singled out which tells me there had been no contact to see if the perceptions printed were, indeed, accurate.
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remfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. Not the point right now - Rove mounting PR campaign
to make the public believe the local officials are at fault. We all know how that's going to work, don't we? Haven't we all had ENOUGH of that? I don't disagree with you, but the idea that the White House, that Karl FUCKING Rove, has begun a public relations campaign with TAXPAYER dollars just to protect that FUCK sitting in the oval office...as if they have ZERO culpability, makes my blood boil.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. But this provides the perfect response to those who would place that blame
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 05:03 PM by Walt Starr
"But but but, Blanco and Nagin FAILED!"

RESPONSE: "So what, that doesn't mitigate the responsibility of FEMA and DHS under the Homeland Security Act of 2002. Bush pushed this act through whereby the PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY for ANY emergency of this magnitude falls to the Department of Homeland Security. He demanded federal level responsibility in emergencies of this magnitude, the bill passed, and he signed it into law. While Blanco and Nagin may bear some responsibility, under the law it is secondary to the responsibility held by DHS and through the DHS, FEMA."
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. good one--they have to back up the gd Patriot Act!
righties are so predictable
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
42. Yep, and certain Duers are more then willing
to help promote the Rove agenda.

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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Paul Reynolds is good, but still
The people he writes about has stuck by their people, and have fought for them. I'm not that blame-oriented, really.
There's usually plenty to go around - just ask our prime minister. He was asked to resign after the tsunami last year because the Norwegians affected was angry. Much of that criticizm was just, but to ask for his resignation was over the top.
He didn't screw up.
It's takes often a crisis to prove who you are, and Nagin has stood by his electorate.

Apart from that, I agree that politics in New Orleans probably was just as dirty and imperfect as everywhere else.
But it starts and ends with FEMA, we know that now.
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. But the locals and state officials were at least trying.
Bush and FEMA basically did nothing for several days, if you don't count promising help that didn't come and blocking people coming from elsewhere to help from getting into NO.

The locals and state govt. were trying to get something done from before the hit. Their inability to deal with all of the effects of a Cat. 4-5 hurricane, 100,000 trapped victims, and levee breaks is hardly surprising. That's why they did ask for help, which was a long time coming (and people died in the meantime).
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Admittedly they were, and under the Homeland Security Act of 2002
any responsibility held by local officials is secondary to the direct responsibility held by the Department of Homeland Security.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. It leaves a LOT out!
I'm not going to say that Blanco and Nagin couldn't have done a better job, but there is no excuse for the USS Bataan - who followed Katrina into the Gulf - sitting in position and ready with 9 million MRE's and support and rescue helicopters waiting for approval from Bush to act, while Bush played guitar and ate McCain's birthday cake.

Anything that Blanco or Nagin could have done pales in comparison.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Absolutely agreed. DHS was given full responsibility by Act of Congress
Homeland Security Act of 2002.
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librarycard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Correct, and Cheney supposedly falls under that jurisdiction
somewhere, though nobody seems to know where.
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librarycard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. I wholly blame the Feds
Bush has spent four years altering and overlaying Federal national preparedness offices over more of the same, making it a confused morass of red tape. What I wonder is, did he do it on purpose in order to later place blame on state officials and then take control of the states, especially if they were run by democrats?
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bribri16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. The part of the plan that Blanco and Nagin had went off smoothly
that was the evacuation of about 80% of the people ahead of time. What they didn't have was a plan to transport those who wanted leave but couldn't. Under dry conditions, the Convention center and Superdome might have been ok, IF they had planned for food and water deliveries. There is no fucking excuse for the Northern Commander to say they were ready to go just waiting on the order from the President. And the Bush administration ...DHS had a PLAN that they did not follow.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Didn't Blanco ask Bush for $5M for the evacuation ahead of time
and he ignored her.
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MadeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Yeah that was the real problem.....No funding/direction from FEMA...
By order of the President. :grr:
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
35. Ultimate blame rests at the federal level because they denied
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 05:02 PM by Vinca
adequate funding to prevent the flooding, denied funding for a major hurricane response plan and, in the end, didn't respond in a timely fashion after being asked by the governor. Maybe this was an overabundance of red tape rather than wholesale incompetence. We don't know. Save the people first, then deal with the pathetic-verging-on-criminally negligent response. I'm sure there's enough blame to go around so the mayor and governor will carry some.

Edited because I'm thinking faster than I can type.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Primary responsibility rests at the federal level UNDER THE LAW!
Homeland Secuirty Act of 2002.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. This is pretty much what the former head of FEMA - J Witt just said.
He said putting FEMA under the Homeland Security umbrella and cutting funds was the reason this catastrophy is a greater disaster.
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magnolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
44. Whatever Nagin and Blanco did...
...or didn't do, in no way, shape or form excuses Bush's slow response to the biggest disaster we have every known.

Don't get overly concerned about blame going to Nagin or Blanco. In the grand scheme of things their guilt is irrelevant. The American people counted on Bush to keep them safe...not Nagin and Blanco.

If the people in NO want to blame Nagin, that's their business. If the people in Louisiana want to blame Blanco...let them. As for the rest of us...Bush is responsible for our national security...not Nagin and Blanco. It's his performance that needs to be investigated.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Keep in mind that most of the people left in NO
probably survived the hurricane it was the flood that killed them.

Nagin asked FEMA for Black Hawk helicopters on Monday before the 17th St Levee broke to carry the sandbags that he already had ready to reinforce the levee. They told him Black Hawk were on the way. Of course, they never came. You should have heard him cursing on the air after that one.

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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
45. the single cause of NO which is most pertinent
...is the condition of the levees. Their condition is the direct responsibility of the Federal government and Bush's obsession with the wrong Gulf, imho.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
47. Anyone can point fingers of blame ALL day..........
the bottom line is Homeland Security is a FAILURE and the 'reorganized' FEMA is a FAILURE. Both were concocted by the bush administration which is a FAILED ADMINISTRATION. Bush is MOST interested in his SCOTUS appointees and really doesn't give a sh_t about anything else.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
50. I agree to an extent, but once the hurricane DID hit Bush could have
used executive powers to take over if he felt that the LA Gov was not competent. Instead he stayed on vacation for another couple days.
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OctOct1 Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
51. Could you please look at what was done for Florida 2004
I know, I know, it was an election year, but please!!!
Look at all the PRE- planning and PRE-effort by FEMA.


http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/SODA-64L2VL?OpenDocument
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
57. They made mistakes - UNAVOIDABLE mistakes..
Edited on Mon Sep-05-05 09:52 PM by Karmakaze
Having read articles printed BEFORE the storm it is clear that there were some mistakes made - however they only become mistakes when looked at from 'now', for example the failure to evacuate the poor.

Sure bad idea should have been done - however the storm itself didnt kill many of those people. What the Mayor DID do (sending them to the dome for example) saved their lives. What killed them was the failure to help them AFTER the storm, and NO-ONE could have expected that.

If these people had died because the superdome collapsed, THEN you could blame Nagin. But it didnt and they survived the initial disaster.

The same goes for Blanco everything she did got them through that first day. But she did something else - she determined she could do no more than that and asked for federal help - she was promised that help and didnt get it.

THAT is where the blame lies - not on the unavoidable mistakes that were made (ie trusting Bush) but on the people who KNEW what had happened, who had promised to help, but who didn't. Bush is 100% responsible for that.


Editted to add: This is one of those times when hindsight, even though it is 20/20, is actually misleading.

We are thinking of what happened to the people AFTER the storm and treating that as the same disaster. But in reality it wasnt. No one on the ground in Louisiana could have prepared for being abandoned by the feds. It just would not occur to anyone to believe that FEMA would not leap into action.

So if you divide the disaster into two - the storm itself and then the abandonment afterwards, you can see where the true wrongdoing was and who was responsible for it. Nagin anf Blanco got the people of New orleans through the storm - then BUSH abandoned them to die.
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