Bill Clinton - honorable ex-President, good man

There have been several threads questioning Bill Clinton's integrity/loyalty/sensibility lately - as if he's somehow a traitor for agreeing to raise money at the request of the President of the United States (uggh, I know). I'm not going to abandon him like some here just because he is a better man than any of the sociopaths in the Republican party. We always criticize the Bushbots for not being able to live by their Christian values and for not taking responsibility for their actions. Bill Clinton has done both. He was asked to help raise money to help people during the biggest national disaster in our nations history, and he chose to rise ABOVE POLITICS and help his fellow Americans in a time of need. He even has to pretend to like these cretins while he does this service. Can you imagine how badly he'd like to take their heads and bash them together as he listens to the idiocy and bigotry spew from the mouths of these filthy animals? He's a better man than I am - I can't imagine having to be diplomatic around these savages. I think he should be commended for what he is doing. It would be all to easy for him to have snubbed the offer and done something else, but that's not the kind of person that he is. As much as I hate W, I know that he will be gone in 3+ years and that the United States ultimately has to have SOME respect for it's system of government. When a Democrat is in office I will expect the same respectful behavior from ex-Republican Presidents - if they choose not to then all the power to them - we can bash them at that time for not being able to rise above politics for the good of the country. Not the other way around, where many here want to criticize the honorable ex-Democratic President for rising above the politics of the times for the good of the Country as a whole, and the 100,000's of suffering people who once lived in one of our truly unique cities.

Well said!

God I miss Bill:cry:

:popcorn:

What would have happened had Clinton been in office during all this?

First off, this horror wouldn't have happened in the first place. The funding for bolstering the levees would never have been cut, and there wouldn't have been 100,000+ troops in Iraq.

Secondly, There would have been food and water trucks ready to roll, probably with boats strapped to the tops, the instant the storm passed.

Thirdly, that hospital ship would have been on its way before Katrina even touched land. Maybe a couple of cruise ships docked in Miami would have gotten commandeered.

Fourthly, there would have been a massive, massive, massive depolyment of Guardsmen to help get people out of NO.

The result?

Everybody is evacuated from New Orleans and Biloxi within two days of the storm's passing. The levees are repaired and the pumps fired up within three. New Orleans is dry by Labor Day. 250 dead, max. Huge damage bill, but loss of life is kept to a minimum. Katrina goes down in history as the costliest storm to ever hit the US and has her name retired. Mardi Gras 2006 is a joyful celebration of the Big Easy's resilience.

But in this political climate when "our side" has so few leaders who are able to command time on TV or the attention of the media, we are crying -- screaming -- for someone to be a little LESS level headed and middle of the road sometimes. These are desperate - DESPERATE - hours, and we need passion. Bill has lost some of the fire, especially since his surgery, I believe. And who else do I have to give my voice weight?

We are giddy with joy when Keith Olbermann tells a simple truth on his show. We become besotted when Anderson Cooper temporarily sees the light and displays some compassion. This, my friends, is because we -- the good side -- are starving for someone of passion, intelligence, power, and COMpassion to come forward and represent us. It makes me weep to think how cavalierly we dismissed Al Gore. I realize to call him a man of passion is an oddity but he does have a fire to him.

He is indeed a better man and his actions this past year have really proven that.

Let's fast forward 5 years and imagine what GWB is doing. I would bet it's not raising money for charity.

I hope he's making license plates.

I watched him today when he spoke after baby bush's daddy had cracked a sick joke about Ma Barker Bush, the media laughed dutifully but went silent very quickly when Clinton said "I take a different view", with regard to an investigation, and then went on to speak about the people that had died and were dying. Without verbally saying a word about Daddy's bush's complete insensitivity, he made him look incredibly small in character.

... about the Big Dog's character than an earlier quote about how much he liked working with the Bushes.

I think Clinton looks ill -- snow white hair, face with no color -- if he keeps looking like that in public I fear he won't be with us for long. I hope I'm wrong.

Hekate

#Why won't the Chickenhawk cross the road?#
#Why won't the Chickenhawk be waitin' on the levee?#

lately than he did during his time fund raising for tsunami victims. I also saw his interview one on one with a reporter, can't remember who, where he said in no uncertain terms "Government has failed the people" and it was definitely related to the federal government. I was ticked at him when, earlier, he seemed to be sticking up for George Bush in all this but have come to realize no one is perfect and he is trying to help the hurricane victims, that really is his purpose, unlike daddy bush and Ma Barker who's only interest is to help and protect their baby.

Something else interesting I noticed: Governor Blanco had said she had talked to Clinton last week, James Lee Witt had said he had talked to Clinton last week then, on Friday, the Governor announces she has James Lee Witt on board. I think this union didn't just come about.

"Something else interesting I noticed: Governor Blanco had said she had talked to Clinton last week, James Lee Witt had said he had talked to Clinton last week then, on Friday, the Governor announces she has James Lee Witt on board. I think this union didn't just come about."

Thanks for putting the pieces of the puzzle together for me!

I'm worried about him, and yes he is a good man.

He's aged very rapidly recently - I wonder what's up with that?

10 minutes and no flames yet...but they are a comin...the Clinton haters will find you eventually!

I like the post above that has the popcorn eating smiley :rofl:

I never would have expected that a post praising Bill Clinton on DU would be like touching the third rail around here :D

They are loud and often obnoxious, but I would venture to guess that they are the minority. I think the vast majority of people at DU would say they supported Bill Clinton, and I would also venture to guess that most of them will vote for Hillary if she is nominated!

You and I KNOW as assuredly as the sky is blue, that these bashers will vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination. I think some people think that the DU is a place to criticize certain politicians, as if the info will somehow get to them. I actually agree, but if the post is seen as based on anger of the moment or misplaced anger at * (as it is in this case), then the post will be largely ignored by people outside of DU. There is a significant minority here that believes that screaming at the top of ones lungs will solve all of our problems, I think it just makes you out of breath and too tired to see the finer points where a real political advantage may be hidden...

So you think simply because someone is questioning what the hell is up with Clinton being called a son by the Bush's is not supporting him? :eyes:

on Global Warming on Tuesday. Dems are serious. They aren't falling for the games anymore.

Clinton got the stuff on the ground taken care of with DeWitt. Now is a time to let it all sink in. Let the stories come out and work themselves out.

And Rove is running around like a madman trying to find a scapegoat to take responsibility for the whole thing - which really is simply a side effect of their long term goals for governance.

Why would Dems bother with him or Bush anymore.

It's my opinion that the term" Ex-President" was invented for Bill Clinton by the Bush-loving media.


My memory is long enough to include:

former President Truman

former President Eisenhower

former President Johnson

former President Ford

former President Carter

former President Reagan

former President G.H.W. Bush

and even former President Nixon -- the crook who resigned -- was never called
"EX-President."


I no longer have any respect for Bill Clinton and it ended long before he cozied up to the Bushes. I don't respect him because he sold America out with NAFTA, the World Bank, WTO, etc., but I resent the media turning a Democrat who was elected President twice into an "EX-President."

I also disagreed with him on NAFTA - one of the few things I disagreed with him on in 8 years. I was born when Kennedy was President BTW - you left him out for some reason - Clinton's idol :D

:sarcasm:



:rofl:

good post.

You accept the current system in place. Many people, especially after this week, have become sick and tired of politically active persons not caring as much as they do. Personally, I've been sick of it for years now. The money prerequisite for even running for office is staggering, and you have to be beyond naive to think that doesn't affect the majority of politicians. When lobbyists are the catalysts for movement in DC, we have a serious problem. The government as a whole has become a corporate entity, one with very few humanitarians among it's shareholders.

A lot of us can no longer accept not only the way things work, but a lot of the politicians that may have done good things, in the past, for whatever cause they percieve to have. With the Clinton deal, it's often about the real issue behind it all. Great, he's up there trying to get a bi-partisan crowd to donate their funds - that's not a bad thing. But if, as you say, he really wanted to get up there and bash heads (like we do), and really believed it was bush's fault (like we do), why would he stand up there and make bush look better? If he really thought the government should be responsible for it's own citizens, especially in a time of crisis, why work with 'the enemy' to raise funds from the private sector? It just doesn't make sense. You could make a better case if this were done independantly, but they were at the white house, and bush was the one to announce it - as if he brought it into happening.

Let's just try to open our eyes here - Clinton isn't the saint you want to make him out to be.

Save any survivors before prosecuting those in charge who screwed up. B*** may be able to wriggle out of it by rigging up the court system with Roberts as Chief Justice, but still if anyone out there is alive and in need they must come first.

I also look at Clinton as being worried that Bush will F*** up so much that America will be too vunerable and will either blow up from within or be attacked by some country seriously ticked off at US arrogance. It's possibly coming from a noble place, but still is going to be bad in the long run because these people he is trusting and helping are just vipers and have no intention of acting like leaders of people when they can pull Clinton up and parade him around and avoid personal responsiblity.

I think Bill Clinton is a better man than Bush or the politics of our time. He had a heart problem mostly (likely) due to the stress of the political arena, and he has decided that the hard-hitting politics as an active politician aren't for him any more. I can't fault him for this - maybe we should be looking for some new leaders who actually CAN be elected to office to push aside the neocons who are causing us all this pain. Clinton isn't our knight in shining armor anymore, but he's still a better man than most, he can still bring a lot of good to this country even if he can't be our President again. So even though I'd like him to be the person who bashes heads, I don't think he's that person any more - that doesn't make him bad though.

I can understand why you'd find some criticisms of clinton lacking base. Most of the posts absolutely bashing him I think are coming from people who did view him in that saint-like light, but are having a hard time dealing with the reality of it all.

I was never a big fan, but compared to the alternatives he's still at least a few notches above.

valuable in this fund-raising appointment.

Very few dems could be greeted respectfully by those tight-assed big-money types whose contributions--if they make them--will really help in rebuilding and helping evacuees get a new start in life. Clinton can do it. Working with Poppy (and worse, at *'s request) is just the price he has to pay for that.

May I add -- being president of _anything_ is a unique responsibility (not that the Chimp seems to realize it). On various occasions I've been president of a couple of small clubs or chapters. In looking at the group's or organization's problems, my perspective was bound to be different than that of any other members.
This may well account for Clinton's willingness to "look ahead" rather than focusing on criticizing the Bushes.

really getting it or if he is then we are really screwed.

He knows how to BE a president and he did the right things on the important issues over and over again.

And still - he says he LIKES GW. Which says to me, either he isn't paying attention to the truth or is somehow trying to stay close enough to the ruling party to do something major some day when there are enough people so outraged that they storm the White House and demand an accounting from this crime family.

With Renquist's confirmation they will push Roberts through to replace him and we are so screwed. The Chief Justice decides who writes the opinions for the court and is in charge of appointments like the judges who will rule on special prosecutions like Rove.

No wonder they weren't worried. Just wait until Renquist dies and put in a replacement that won't allow Rove to be prosecuted for his crimes. Or Haliburton et all.

How can you like a giggling murder? And Clinton knows better than anybody that Iraq is a joke and wrong but yet where has he come out against it? Or Hillary? I'm sure she could know better than anybody that it's a joke and what it really is about. I remember at Clinton's library opening he gave a speech and asked "am I the only one here who likes both Bush and Kerry?" Of course in this crowd when Clinton thanked Kerry they all cheered and when Bush's name maybe a very very small handful of people cheered.

I do not understand that position at all. It has NEVER been the way of the USA since they stopped dueling. Even then, there was comity.

It's nice to see a post about Clinton that is positive. Thank you!

how well oiled FEMA was under Clinton when he stands next to these folk but I doubt it. Both sides benefited during his presidency and that's one thing no one can deny without lying. I'd sure as hell rather he be in the big chair right now. But, to me, begging money from the private sector furthers the right's agenda in a way...you know, the part that warns us not to depend on the government for substantial help rebuilding, improving or saving lives. His and his wife's alliances with the right, while politically astute, weaken a wobbly Democratic party and seriously confuse a lot of loyal people who need very much to believe in that party's strength.

The one strength Progressives have that surpasses the blind loyalty of the right is the ability to cry foul, whether it be against the right or the left. We're not lemmings and blindly following just because usually only benefits the person being followed.

I agree that FEMA was a well oiled machine under Clinton.

I agree that there is a slightly Republican feel to raising money in the context of your argument, but I really don't think many apolitical people will see it this way. Even libertarian conservatives believe that the government's few essential functions include protecting the country from danger or damage either from enemies or natural disasters - there is no "country" if we allow it to be destroyed due to lack of organization/pooling our resources (government).

I just don't see how we can blame Clinton for weakening the Democratic party. Let's lift the burden from his shoulders and onto our new leaders!! (what new leaders you say :rofl: - not funny)


No, we're not lemmings and we will fight the evil sociopathic neocons with all our might. Stabbing a man who is hardly as energetic since his heart problem may not be a nice thing to do - though it is your right to if you wish :D

I do believe I gave him credit for being a far better president than the one we have. But, I agree, he is not wholely responsible for weakening the party, especially since he is now a private citizen. That mantle does indeed deserve to rest on the current electeds and that naturally includes the Missus. And, I was responding to you and apolitical isn't a tag I'd pin on ya. :)

WRT "stabbing" the man - I guess I was assuming others might be reading my response. I'm a politician I guess :D

Yep, Hillary can be criticized for sure - all knowing that most here would still vote for her if she were nominated :D

whenever I see him with ** I look at his eyes, they tell me he thinks this little jerk is a weasel, but he'll keep pulling his ass out of the fire, because like it or not, he is the Pres.(can't even get that out)and he's not going to let the country suffer for it anymore...He reminds me of the parent that grabs a kid by his collar and parades him to the principle to apologize...

now more than ever, if that's possible.

:thumbsup:

He is such a great person.

I miss him a lot :loveya:

to break. He defended the Bush lie to justify the death of thousands. He is a charmer alright, but this is NOT aceptable.

Anyone have the link?

In the CNN 'government failed' clip below I felt he said the right thing and was sincere and assumed leadership in an important and relieving way. Maybe even a 'knight in shining armor' moment:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/05/clinton.katrina/index.html
direct:
rtsp://wmscnn.stream.aol.com/cnn/politics/2005/09/05/clinton.katrina.response.failure.cnn.ws.wmv

How he follows through remains to be seen. I think he has definitely compromised himself on things and may still be doing so, but is on balance not a corrupt person.

Clinton Is an Unexpected Partner in the Hurricane Effort
New York Times
ADAM NAGOURNEY and JOHN M. BRODER
September 6, 2005

As President Bush and administration officials fanned out across the Gulf Coast in the White House's campaign to deal with criticism that they had failed in managing the tragedy of Hurricane Katrina, there was one unexpected face in their crowd on Monday: former President Bill Clinton.

Mr. Clinton was at Reliant Center next to the Astrodome in Houston, where about 3,800 homeless New Orleans residents had decamped, standing next to former President George Bush as they announced the creation of the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund to help hurricane victims. After that, the two former presidents, along with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, toured the shelter, while President Bush visited storm-struck areas of Mississippi and Louisiana, providing a flow of television images suggesting a concerned White House on the march.

Mr. Clinton's visit to the Houston shelter on Monday is the latest time the former president has come to the current president's aid in his second term, from early in the year when Mr. Bush was criticized for his slow response to the tsunami, to initially defending the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina at the White House last week, to praising the credentials of Judge John G. Roberts Jr., Mr. Bush's choice for the Supreme Court. And it offered what many Democrats described as a vivid, if slightly disconcerting, insight into the complicated and increasingly transactional relationship between the Bush and Clinton families.

While officials in both parties said they had no doubt that both men were first and foremost intent on helping Americans, they also took note of the web of political benefits spun by this burgeoning alliance. It helps Mr. Bush during the roughest time of his presidency, Mr. Clinton as he tries to establish himself as a respected and admired former president and Mrs. Clinton as she potentially prepares to run for president in 2008.

Full story

Containing no more informed facts than any opinion here...it is simply Adam Nagourney expressing an opinion about something he does not have the full facts for.

And even he admits that Clinton is doing this for primarily humanitarian reasons

It is clearly a hit-piece by the Times who have been guilty as sin of running CRAP against Democratic pols since Bill whipped Bush I's wrinkled ass and sent him back to Texas.

These sorry excuses for human beings are doing nothing more than typing up the CRAP that Mehlman wants them to type up and will never miss taking a shot at Clinton. Fuck the Times. Can you not see that their "analysis" is pulled from their asses and not from a single piece of reality?

Read Gene Lyons FOOLS FOR SCANDLE and then tell me something from the ass-wipe Times.

who does something they disagree with. It's hard to beleive how viscious - who needs enemies with friends like this!

'honorable ex-president' -- thats right. He is not in politics now, and he wants to help his country.

He's a good man doing good work

...is the fact that some of the users, who detest Bush (understandably), support Clinton. I know he did good things for your country, but (correct me if I'm wrong) didn't he impose sanctions in Iraq, which resulted in disastrous consequences? And Yugoslavia? I don't believe you can call Clinton a "good man".

And the fact that he associated himself with Madelaine Allbright, who is absolutely dispicable (one of the most repulsive things I've ever heard came from her mouth). I cannot remember it exactly, but she basically says it doesn't matter if Iraqi children die, as long as they accomplish their goal. Some people may know what I'm talking about.

I'm not going to try to fit the standards of some here to Bill Clinton or anyone for that matter. It seems to me that this would leave us in a situation where we had no leaders left, because I personally don't agree with every view of ANY democrat, nor do I approve of all persons they choose to associate with. I am not perfect either, but I am a Democrat and I take a pragmatic approach to politics. It's not all or nothing with me - nobody could meet that standard.

All he had to do was resists temtation of a wet vagina but he couldnt even do that for his country. I used to support him in the strongest terms, I voted for him twice I contributed to both Clinton then Gore in 2000. But when all politicians were silent about voting fraud and voting machines irregularities they fell a knotch. Nobody in politics cares about my vote so to hell with them all. In time you will come around to this, till then hold onto what you believe. But in time you just like me you are in for the shock of your life. Its no longer Dems vs Repukes it has become government against the people. I have been active politically for half a century and thats my take on things today.

If you're going to say such things you could at least get it right.

And if that's what it takes to put Bush in office, the shame is on the electorate, not Clinton.

Jesus, I cannot BELIEVE that someone here wold bring that bullshit YET again.

I like your user ID BTW :D

Clinton did not impose sanctions...Bush I did. In fact Clinton modified them to allow humanitarians aid and medicine in.

Second, Clinton;s efforts in the Balkans likely prevented a mass genocide in the region.

Funny how anti-Iraq war advocates (of which I am one), complain that Bush went to war too fast and didn;t let sanctions work...but criticize Clinton for doing just that and keeping us out of war!

be as disappointed as you want. In fact, considering what you wrote ... I hope it disappoints the living shit out of you. Bullshit opinion after bullshit opinion and you somehow expect people to ignore reality to embrace your Naderesque ranting. Give me a break.

Clinton is in it only for himself he is a a shallow waste of time and has decieded that proping GOP lies is the only to get invited to the good parties. IMHO. :puke:

That's not a problem with me :D

I choose to disagree :D

eom

Barbara Bush and Poppy Bush have called Clinton a son they've never had?

They are admitting that they are just trolls next to Clinton and they want try and suck his charisma like the BFEE vampire's are want to do }(

It is irrelevent in the extreme. Bush I and CLinton have forged a personal relationship. There is nothing wrong with that as America is replete with examples of political enemies bonding oce their terms in office are over...Adams - Jefferson being the most famous.

I held my nose and voted for him and, unfotunately, got just what I expected. A "moderate" Republican president who was, and is, a politician pandering to the "middle" with few ethics and less courage.

May he sink into the oblivion of Arkansas where he belongs and take his equally tepid wife with him.

Boy, there's a lot of them on this thread. DU's favorite pasttime: Sacrificing good on the altar of perfect. What a tremendous waste of intellectual energy.
The Professor

What a display of philosophical emptiness.

who does not do 100% of what they personally want at any time, and in any situation. Since we're all different/individuals, this means that virtually everyone is trashed.

You tell me who you think was the greatest President in our history...and I bet I can convince you he was the scum of the earth.

You make a post filled with inane, bored observations and then call something philosophically empty?

:eyes:

Whatever.

I would trade the net good from Bill Clinton's life for the net good from yours in a heartbeat.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I wish more people here would stop trying to find the utopian leader and learn to accept the good with the bad. I would challenge any one of them to name the perfect Democrat - so I could trash them before their very eyes as an example of thier "never perfect enough for me" hypocrisy...

to this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4659248

So far your argument that he is an "honorable and good man" offers NOTHING in the way that contributes constructively to the rebuilding of the Democratic Party. So how does all the gratuitous praise of his personal traits get the party moving in a direction that will allow dems to take back the nation any way?

...though the purpose of this thread isn't to give advice to the Clinton's - that's your thread.

some of the filthy things being said on this board about someone who was/is the pride of the party. Bill Clinton is probably viewed more as a hero across the world than he is on this forum. Sad.

Nominated.

I also thought that CLinton's face looked pained lately from seeing the suffering, and I'm sure he knows how mishandled it was.

Also, Bill is comfortable around all people and empathises with them, whereas Dumbya seems to be uncomfortable around African Americans.

:kick:

Since * is scared of "ordinary" people, he had to call in someone with a conscience to do the fund raising.

Clinton can empathize with people because he is a person (unlike the Chimp)...

Clinton is helping raise money for Katrina victims, isn't that a good thing? As a former president he and Bush Sr. can do a lot of good for those poor people. Why are people on this board knocking that?

they're putting their own selfish politicking above doing what's right for the victims, and they'll do or say anything to make someone they don't like, even a brilliant Democrat like Clinton, look bad.

If those same whiners were in the shoes of the victims, they wouldn't give a rat's ass WHO brought them help, just as long as SOMEONE did.

It's what Dem's are known for.

You couldn't resist

That don't fly off the handle every time something doesn't go their way...

In our lifetime. (I'm 52, all ages, please respond, too)

"Who" has been better?
Done more good, tried to do good facing adversity all the while and is still trying to do good for Americans?

It's the best 8 years I remember.

...but I'm slightly biased :D

but none of them have anything to do with his actions re: Katrina.

More like an ocean liner actually :D