Democrats must start questioning Cons faith

thefloyd

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:43 PM
Original message

Democrats must start questioning Cons faith

I am tired of Conservatives hiding behind the cross for political gain.
I think indifferent Americans simply believe Bush should not be questioned because he goes to Church and professes his faith in public.
Just because a man or women goes to church does not mean he or she cannot be questioned. Sorry I needed to vent.

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eallen

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:50 PM
Response to Original message

1. That's something for liberal Christians to do.

The rest of us don't have much basis to tell the religious right that they are wrong about their religion. Of course, those of us who are secular can tell them that religion generally is a bunch of hooey. But that's unlikely to help in any foreseeable election.

:hippie:

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thefloyd

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #1

3. Maybe not question Cons faith

but simply stating Christian or Not a person can make mistakes. I am not secular by any means I just do not use the excuse "I am christian so
x and y"

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bribri16

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Wed Sep-14-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #1

23. And remember, most neocons don't even believe in Jesus!

Edited on Wed Sep-14-05 07:19 AM by bribri16

That the "Christian right" would so align themselves with neocons is amazing and hypocritical. As they shake their heads and wag their fingers at liberal Christians, they are in bed with, support, fight for, and perpetuate the agenda of a group that doesn't even believe in Jesus Christ. Robbing the poor to help the rich, neglecting the elderly and needy, and following the love of money and power agenda is what they are all about...so I would say that neighter the neocons nor the Chritian right believe in Jesus Christ.

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msongs

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message

2. heard that bush does NOT go to church that often nt

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thefloyd

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2

5. Would not surprise me

Your info just another indicator of Cons hiding behind the cross

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Justice

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Wed Sep-14-05 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #2

24. Exactly right, he rarely attends church

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mike_c

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message

4. I disagree....

That's letting the republicans-- and especially the fascist neocons-- frame the terms of the debate within a context where they already enjoy a sigificant advantage. Dems going there will just look like pale imitations. That's the strategy that lost the 2004 election, IMO. Instead, dems should PROMINANTLY support some avowed atheist candidates for office, and make the case that in our constitutional republic, where church and state are separate, "faith" should not be an issue on the ballot, even implicitly.

I'm not under any illusion that those candidates are likely to win-- it's just that the dems need to provide ALTERNATIVES to fascism, rather than simply trying to coop it.

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eallen

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #4

9. I partly agree, and partly disagree.

I think Democrat candidates would do well to distinguish themselves from the religious right by forthrightly saying, "As an elected official in a secular government, I will do my best to represent people of all faiths." (Personally, I would love to hear "..and those with no faith." But I'm not asking for miracles.)

On the other hand, I think it is entirely appropriate and good for our culture that liberal Christians, as a matter of their religious activity, are standing up for what they think is right, and declaring loudly that they practice a Christian faith that is far different from the religious right's. And even if I didn't think it was appropriate and good, I don't see how I possibly could discourage them anyway.

:hippie:

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Zhade

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message

6. Oh, HELL no.

Edited on Mon Sep-12-05 08:57 PM by Zhade

Not in any organized way. Pardon my language, but FUCK that.

We need less religion in government affairs, not more! I do not support the idea of a holy war between the two political parties, not at all.

If individuals want to pursue this, it's not my call. But I will not remain silent if the Dems start trying to out-Jesus the Repubs. That turns the debate into an argument about whose god is bigger.

I understand you mean well, but no, no, no.

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thefloyd

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message

7. Ok I see your point

However I am not talking about saying Chrisitanity is a fairy tale. I am just simply stating people can make mistakes christian or not. Bush could be vice president of Christ Inc and still make bad decisions

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norml

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message

8. Once again, The "Conservative" Sermon on the Mount

Blessed are the rich for all good things trickle down from them. Cursed are the poor for poverty results from their moral failings.

Blessed are the war makers for they keep freedom on the march. Cursed are the peacemakers for they shall be called appeasers.

Blessed are those who inflict harsh punishments for they maintain law and order. Cursed are those who forgive for they shall be called soft on crime.

Blessed are those who pray loudly standing in the churches and on the corners sounding the trumpet before them. Cursed are those who shut the closet door and pray in secret for their prayers are not heard.

Blessed are those who cast the first stone for the sake of sexual morality for that is the only morality that matters. Cursed are those who see sexuality as a private matter for marriage must be defended against them.

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RallyInDC

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Mon Sep-12-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message

10. "SILENCE! you shouldn't question the president's motives....." -hastert

there's no reason to be worried.....

TO JAIL WITH HASTERT, DELAY, AND THE BUSH SQUAD

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GreenPartyVoter

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Mon Sep-12-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #10

13. I am really ticked that he pulled that on Rep. McKinney and that

they struck her mention of impeachment from the congressional record.

I hope that Helen Thomas, David Gregory, and Terry Moran know about this.

------------------------------------------------------
URGENT yet easy! Hold the government accountable for Katrina's aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4736062

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RallyInDC

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Mon Sep-12-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #13

15. hastert has been taking bribes from people in turkey etc.

he's a criminal. and like I said, they didn't remove it from the record. they removed it from the newspaper or edited her words later.

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GreenPartyVoter

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Mon Sep-12-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #15

16. so it _is_ in the record. Thanks for clearing that up. And yeah, I heard

what Ms. Edmonds had to say about Mr. Hastert. I hope he's sweatng bullets.

------------------------------------------------------
URGENT yet easy! Hold the government accountable for Katrina's aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4736062

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Jacobin

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Mon Sep-12-05 09:01 PM
Response to Original message

11. Please let's NOT

Dems need desperately to remain the party dedicated to preserving the separation of church and state

whenever i hear a pol start talking about religion, I run and hide

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Sapphire Blue

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Mon Sep-12-05 09:01 PM
Response to Original message

12. Jimmy Carter explains how the Christian right isn't Christian at all.

Carter's Crusade
Jimmy Carter explains how the Christian right isn't Christian at all.

(excerpt)

How do you think the fundamentalist Christian right has misrepresented Christianity, as well as the democratic process?

Well, what do Christians stand for, based exclusively on the words and actions of Jesus Christ? We worship him as a prince of peace. And I think almost all Christians would conclude that whenever there is an inevitable altercation -- say, between a husband and a wife, or a father and a child, or within a given community, or between two nations (including our own) -- we should make every effort to resolve those differences which arise in life through peaceful means. Therein, we should not resort to war as a way to exalt the president as the commander in chief. A commitment to peace is certainly a Christian principle that even ultraconservatives would endorse, at least by worshipping the prince of peace.

And Christ reached out almost exclusively to the poor, suffering, abandoned, deprived -- the scorned, the condemned people -- including Samaritans and those who were diseased. The alleviation of suffering was a philosophy that was enhanced and emphasized by the life of Christ. Today the ultra-right wing, in both religion and politics, has abandoned that principle of Jesus Christ’s ministry.

Those are the two principal things in the practical sense that starkly separate the ultra-right Christian community from the rest of the Christian world: Do we endorse and support peace and support the alleviation of suffering among the poor and the outcast?

http://www.prospect.org/web/printfriendly-view.ww?id=7572

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Erika

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Mon Sep-12-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message

14. Watch what they do, not what they say

The racists remarks on consevative sites shows the black heart of many conservatives.

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kestrel91316

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Mon Sep-12-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message

17. Bush never makes mistakes. Didn't anybody tell you that he's

the Second Coming of Christ????

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unless

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Mon Sep-12-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message

18. There are a lot of people who are going to vote based on their own faith..

If the faith of the candidate is the same as their own, they'll vote for them over an athiest without a second thought.

Nobody's asking the liberals to not be liberal. Just to sideline some of the more abrasive points until we've got enough power in the house to make some real changes - THEN bring in the movers and shakers.

Otherwise, we're just a few thousand old radicals yelling at the White House in 2025 when abortion and homosexuality have been outlawed, prayer has been made mandatory in public schools, and there hasn't been a Dem president for a quarter of a century.

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ptolle

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Mon Sep-12-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message

19. then there's this

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”—Sinclair Lewis,
Going into a church doesn't make anyone a christian anymore than going into a garage makes anyone a porsche.

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thefloyd

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Wed Sep-14-05 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #19

20. great point

Could not have said it better my self

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thefloyd

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Wed Sep-14-05 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #19

21. great point

Could not have said it better my self

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Bernardo de La Paz

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Wed Sep-14-05 05:51 AM
Response to Original message

22. Being "born again" does not entitle you to twice as many rights.

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pepperlove

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Wed Sep-14-05 07:33 AM
Response to Original message

25. Nor do those things..

constitute BEING a Christian.... * uses "religion" when he needs it for a cover or for political gain... otherwise he is a total loser in every way.. and yes, I doubt his "faith".... only God knows and i REALLY believe God sez :puke:

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rndmprsn

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Wed Sep-14-05 07:36 AM
Response to Original message

26. shrub has never been a regular church goer....

karen hughs and karl rove have created this cult of personality around bush to the point where one just doesn't know where truth stops and myth begins.

he only goes to church with his stepford wive as...a photo-op

why the fuck else would such an immoral man go to church.

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