Valerie Plame/Wilson reality check

In recent days there have been a large number of people on DU who have expressed varying degrees of sympathy for Valerie Plame/Wilson. This is, quite frankly, sickening to hear from people who make some attempt to be considered progressives.

Plame/Wilson is not some innocent damsel in distress but rather an employee at the pointed end of an organization, the CIA, which exists for the prime purpose of continuing the master/slave relationship America business and the rest of the world. While it would be obviously wrong to personally blame Plame/Wilson for every CIA crime from the installation of Pinochet to the attempted takeover of Venezuela, it would be equally wrong to assume that she has no blood on her hands. We don't know how many people were murdered, disappeared to torture centers (Gitmo being the most well known, but there are others) or merely financially ruined by the United States as a result of intelligence she gathered. The odds, however, are on the number being greater than zero.

The treason scandal is an extremely useful tool with which to club the Texas Fascist Party, but the agent at the center of it deserves no sympathy.

we should do away with the CIA? Or Plame had it coming? Or what?

I recognize that it's somewhat hypocritical to defend the CIA, but if Bush wants to play these "who's patriotic" games, then let 'em have it. Same with the Arnold thing. I really don't care about Arnold's groping, but if he wants to run on his personality and not have issues to back him up, then he should be prepared to have THAT attacked.

After all, he only groped grown women?

Please get a distinction. People are still having fits because Bill Clinton became involved with a consenting adult.

These women didn't consent to a damn thing.

Does that issue resonate with you? At all? A little? CONSENT??????

Resonates with me. But then, I'm a grown woman and I've been there.

Not everyone in the CIA is Dr. Evil. The CIA and it's agents do good as well as bad. Valerie Plame was keeping WMD's out of the hands of terrorists. I'd say that's good in my book. I'll stick to the facts in this particular case and base my judgements on that. The world is not black and white.

Stuff like how to keep nukes out of the hands of additional countries and terrorists.

Beyond that, we just don't know. The mission is certainly an important one, and blowing her cover may have done the United States great harm.

Whatever that means. Dirty bombs? Weather control?

Still trying to figure how she's worked there 30 yrs if she's only 40.

I believe it was around 18 years over 3 decades.

Proliferation is not just nukes, but I mentioned those as one example (and meant to include "dirty bombs" in that "nukes" shorthand).

Regardless, good and important work, at least to the extent we know her mission. There are many good people at the CIA.

...that issue (on the Guy James Show) I qualified the attack with a comment that I DON'T agree with MANY of the things that the CIA had done over the last few years.

We have laws that govern us (Right or Wrong), the exposers violated those laws reagardless of my beliefs.

Is that ok?

All things are relative, and they seem like the good guys to me in this mess.

Your post is offensive. This woman doesn't deserve to have her life in jeopardy because of what this administration did to her. They hurt our country's safety and national security, which apparently are of no concern to you. I guess that you would rather have our enemies attack us and undermine our country.

The lack of respect you have for someone serving this country is disgusting. Your post is insulting and is disgusting to good upstanding Americans everywhere. Frankly your post sickens me. It's just as bad as when some DUers celebreated the murder of Agent Spann two years. How morally revolitng on your part.

Her life is in danger and you have nothing but contempt for her. You should be ashamed of yourself. That you somehow think that this woman deserves this injustice sickens and should disgust all good upstanding Americans.

That was very well put. To say that we, as human beings, should have no sympathy for a fellow human being whose lift has been deliberately jeopardized is in and of itself disgusting.

I infer from that post that we in turn should have no sympathy for her contacts and colleagues, and that is equally disgusting. I don't know what exactly Ms. Plame's job entailed, but I doubt she personally installed Pinochet into office. Even if she did, it doesn't matter. She had a right to expect that her sefety would not be compromized by the alleged leaders of her own country, for juvenile pettiness.

I would say more to the original poster, but I won't violate DU's rules.

We don't know how many people she personally, or her work, may have helped.

What else can one say about this? :puke: I'm in no mood to argue with you about this...most of us aren't!

Elaine's boyfriend. Your screen name says it all.

Don't lean so far left you find yourself in the self-righteous fringes of the far far right.

this is about an INDIVIDUAL, not an INSTITUTION.

you want to start a thread about the history of the CIA. fine.

but this is about an INDIVIDUAL, not an INSTITUTION.

sheesh

There actually are terrorists out there. They blow shit up all the time, including three big buildings in the next town over from mine. Unless you've got some free time to keep an eye on that sort of thing, I think we're stuck with the CIA, NSA and DIA to keep an eye out while the fleet's in, y'know?

There are also chemical, biological and nuclear capabilities in all sorts of scary places that aren't Iraq. There are quite a few very clever people out there who don't like us very much, for a variety of reasons that actually have quite a lot to do with what you're declaiming about. That sucks, and I don't have a Way-Back machine handy, so we're stuck with dealing with it.

Valerie Plame was working to keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of terrorists. I am quite happy that someone like her exists, because I do clearly recall wondering what kind of apocalypse I was going to be watching on TV if two airplanes had just delivered an airburst of chemical weapons while knocking down those buildings in the middle of midtown Manhattan. I am quite unhappy her network got blown, because that likely means a lot of people have died or will die, and because that blows a hole in whatever tattered security we have left in this matter.

I'm also impressed that she was a Noc. That's hard to do, and indicative of the importance of the work she's done. It also means she's one tough motherfucker and doesn't need a dime's worth of my sympathy.

But she's got it if she does.

the CIA is a nasty club--Bush should have no criticism for exposing one of it's operatives--they deserve it!--hell, why not out them all? Every single one of them and let PNAC take over! Take the CIA down like Bush tried to take down the UN because they are very very bad. Hell, out them all--it is such as despicable organisation that Bush is better and more qualified to destroy the whole CIA shebang--Bush should be, and deserves to be, in charge of threatening anyone like Wilson, who exposes him and his filthy lies-teach them a lesson or two and anyone else who would ever think of exposing the lies of Bush--just take them down, like that! put their lives and the lives of their families in jeopardy- Bush is right to expose Wilson's wife's life to danger--because the CIA is a dirty undercover oranisation that deserves to be threatened if it should by any means expose a corrupt, fascist leaning president like our pal, crotchbag Bush.

(sarcasm to the non sequitur)

You could extend that reasoning to the tens of millions of U.S. citizen, about whom it could be argued are supporting the CIA via their tax dollars. Or that Rove did a good thing becuase he busted up this ring of "bad guys" and has likely hurt CIA recruitment efforts.

No limit to how far you can go when you reach like that.

I'm locking.

Skinner
DU Admin

Many of the pilers-on are even worse than the lead poster him/herself, IMO. I concede there is a weakness in the lead post - but it doesn't deserve what it's getting in this thread.

The weakness, as I see it, is a confusion between the organization and the individual. The organization deserves about as much sympathy and respect as the Mafia. But it doesn't seem fair to me to accord the individual, Ms Plame, the same opprobrium that the CIA as a whole deserves.

It's just like the frequent squawking that erupts on these boards whenever the military is criticized. The military, when considered as an institution functioning in a certain relationship to society, is also roughly like the Mafia. That doesn't at all mean, however, that every soldier who signs up in good faith is culpable of the institution's sins - or even that (s)he is aware of them.

So, on balance, I think: may the CIA rot in hell. But Ms. Plame has rights that were reprehensibly violated here.