Try to argue that marijuana is 1)bad and 2) should remain illegal

Keep this in mind for context:
We spend 4 BILLION dollars a year on anti-marijuana related drug enforcement.
Violent crime has never been lower- yet marijuana related "crime" (busts, arrests,etc) keep climbing.

Go.

Sorry, can't do it.

:smoke:

Entertaining, really.

Weird.

This should be interesting :D

No?

New Orleans? Legalize & tax, baby. We'll be ready for Mardi Gras in no time.

:D

I think smoking anything for a long period of time can be harmful to the lungs but to say it is bad enough for criminalization is ridiculous.

You're right about smoking anything being bad, but it doesn't have to apply to marijuana, althought that is how most people consume it.

a loved one I know smokes all the time. I have convinced this person to get a pipe because she rolls it and I didn't like the idea of her inhaling the paper. I'll have to tell her to look into a vaporizer. Does it stink up the room though?

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=vaporizer&num=50&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=off


That's just a google search for vaporizer. They're real easy to get.

its pretty amazing

But tell your friend to do thier research, theres alot of low quality vaporizers that dont work, and alot of false info online

I have asthma and its been a godsend... not that I use drugs or anything.

And its been 40+ years. The big cancer bubble that was predicted, never appeared.

I also know someone who smoked cigs for 50 years with no problems but that doesn't mean inhaling tobacco on a regular basis is safe.

:shrug:

http://www.counterpunch.org/gardner07022005.html

Study: Smoking Marijuana Does Not Cause Lung Cancer

By FRED GARDNER

Marijuana smoking -"even heavy longterm use"- does not cause cancer of the lung, upper airwaves, or esophagus, Donald Tashkin reported at this year's meeting of the International Cannabinoid Research Society. Coming from Tashkin, this conclusion had extra significance for the assembled drug-company and university-based scientists (most of whom get funding from the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse). Over the years, Tashkin's lab at UCLA has produced irrefutable evidence of the damage that marijuana smoke wreaks on bronchial tissue. With NIDA's support, Tashkin and colleagues have identified the potent carcinogens in marijuana smoke, biopsied and made photomicrographs of pre-malignant cells, and studied the molecular changes occurring within them. It is Tashkin's research that the Drug Czar's office cites in ads linking marijuana to lung cancer.

thing is, you don't smoke that many of the little devils

I never really thought of it like that...I've never seen someone smoke a "pack" of joints in a day before.

should remain illegal.

I've seen nothing bad come from it- I myself am a lot more relaxed,and I drink less- I would argue that it is in fact good for you, in moderation.

Two other words: Lung Cancer.

...smoking marijuana.
Again, certainly moderation is best, but the fact that big tabacco dumps shitloads of artificial chemicals and carcinogenics into their cancer sticks can't be compared to natural marijuana. It's sick how much shit is put into cigarettes.

If you haven't heard of it, it must not be true.

It's smoke. Smoke is usually bad for people, irrespective of how it is processed and by whom.

And throughout my studies, there has been no mention of it. If you can find it, by all means, show me. But there is no way that the carcinogenic properties of marijuana smoke is anywhere near processed tabacco smoke, not by a long shot.

About what?

Is your journal reading comprehensive?

What journals to you read?

What is your background? Are you qualified to understand the nature of what is being said?

Look, I really don't care if people spoke pot, as long as they don't do it my presence, because I really don't want to inhale their smoke. I am fervidly prolegalization. In fact I really don't favor the criminalization of any drugs. To me drug abuse is a health problem and not a criminal justice problem. Therefore it is best dealt with from a health perspective through the agency of health professionals.

I really don't know why pot smokers always seem to want people to say that "marijuana" is harmless. It is not. How do I know? I used to smoke it, quite heavily in fact, some thirty years ago.

It sucked. It contributed in a big way to making me dull, boring, lazy, dirty and stupid. I wish I could go back and change that part of my life. I wasted some good years.

Look, pot is a mind altering substance. OK? The purpose of smoking pot is NOT to make one think clearly.

Isn't enough to say that it shouldn't be illegal?

For the record, though, here is a remark from NORML:

"Research conducted over the past 30 years has shown that people who smoke marijuana are much less likely than tobacco smokers to develop serious lung diseases that are generally caused by toxic material inhaled to the lungs over time. Although marijuana smoke, like tobacco smoke, contains a number of irritants and carcinogens, marijuana users typically smoke much less than tobacco smokers and inhale less smoke over time. To date, there have been no medical reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana smoking, and there is no evidence showing higher rates of lung cancer in people who smoke marijuana.


In a 1993 review of records from the Kaiser Permanente Medical Care Program, researchers found that, during a six year period, people who smoked marijuana daily and did not smoke tobacco, only slightly more likely than nonsmokers to seek treatment for respiratory illness. Daily marijuana smokers sought treatment for colds, flu, and bronchitis at the rate of 36 percent, while the rate among nonsmokers was 33 percent."

http://www.montananorml.org/med-myths.php3

I don't want my kids to face the extra 3% risk to their health. Is there something wrong with that?

The argument against the relationship between marijuana and tobacco is predicated on the fact that pot smokers smoke "fewer cigarettes." Speaking only for myself, I prefer to smoke ZERO cigarettes, not "fewer."


By the way, if you are familiar with science, you will understand that the lack of a study showing a particular effect does NOT indicate that the effect does not exist.

There were very few studies showing that tobacco caused cancer before 1960. That does not mean that cigarettes were safe before that year.

You sound pretty uptight...

....but I forgot what it was

That is the way you handled pot in your life. You cannot make a blanket statement about every person using marijuana. The problem is the user, not the drug.

but I know I have read somewhere that there has never, ever been a documented case of a death caused from smoking pot.

This has been know at least since the 60's. Much like Bush. The DEA doesn't know what they do and won't let anyone find out. So they are the leading experts on marijuana. Uh Huh.

Jam music *shudders*

smoking never makes me throw up, it doesn't make me mean, it doesn't make me angry, it doesn't make me pass out and wet myself like some drinkers I know.

Smoking pot does: make me thirsty, make my eyes dry, give me munchies, make me laugh, make me relaxed, allow me to really relax during sex, make me sleepy.

I've never ever liked beer, and had to learn to like mixed drinks. Pot is better in all ways in my opinion. I'll smoke it in a pipe, in a bong, in a joint ... so far I don't care much to eat it in anything like brownies. Would like to try a vaporizer, are they expensive?

What was the question?

Sure; seeds, stems, lots of leaf. Crap commercial Mexican, Kansas homegrown. Everyone's seen bad weed.

:rofl:

You might just need to look around!

how healthy it is for teens. I you are a big grown person and have your job and your life - taking time out to "relax" is not hurtful.

But for teens with so much brain vulnerability & hormones and "trauma/drama" - it may not be such a good thing.

That's for DAMN sure ;)

there is usually no lasting damage. Booze can be bad too. But really I think it is with the brain chemicals that smoking too much *** can hurt some kids long term - in the brain.

I wish i knew the links to the studies.

Everyone knows it.

Nevermind the idiotic ban on industrial hemp.

but I also think it is ridiculous to waste time and money keeping it illegal. It can't be as bad as tobacco and millions use that. I wonder if you would expound on the idea of where the profits from the sale of weed go? BTW, how much does an ounce of pot cost now?

pretty much daily for the last 20 years, sometimes several times a day. Didn't start 'til in my 20s ... I agree that teens and children shouldn't smoke pot or cigs or drink alcohol.

Anyway, I occasionally will develop a cough. I know that means I've been smoking too much, so then I cut back and so far, the little cough hasn't gotten worse and it goes away when I cut down on smoking.

Around here, an ounce of good stuff from a long-term dealer friend goes for $220. Quarter ounce is $60, and quarter pound is $750.

and actually, it isnt really that bad for your health

forgot what I was going to write while waiting for the page to refresh.

Because if it were legal, thousands of dealers, growers, and >ahem< importers would be out of work because you could grow it for yourself.

However, I think only hard drugs should be illegal, but smoking should be banned in public.

this weed's full of twigs and seeds!

End the war on drugs and bring back the war on poverty.

there's too much good stuff available for anyone to have to put up with bad weed. If it were legal, and marketed well, no one would have to suffer a bad bag ever again.

Oh, there they go.

n/t

And Otto is Otto spelled backwards!!!!

:rofl:

:rofl:

Best. Simpsons. Episode. Ever.

*edited for spelling*

Prescription pot. Texas THC."

Give to minors: serious penalty
DUI: Very Serious penalty (which means more than the current wrist slap for alcohol)
Commit a crime while under influence: extra penalty.
Other than that, tax it, put surgeon general warnings on the packaging, and party on!

:thumbsup:

I don't care how many people say they drive better stoned, it's stupid.

With alcohol you can do breath test to determine is you are impaired when you are driving. Pot stays in your system for 30 days. Same problem with committing a crime. "was he high at the time of the offence"...I can see the defense questions already.

test if "they" wanted to?

It goes that marijuana is a earthly temptation from the devil, and the
people who smoke it are sinning against god and fallen from his kingdom.
As pot causes potheads to become more lazy and selfish, the good works
of god are weakend on earth, so a government for God must outlaw smoking
plants that morally weaken christian hipocrisy.

It should remain illegal because the people who are arrested get sent to
republican prison districts that then use them to increase their
demographics in congress, all the while those same prison inmates lose
their right to vote. And this boosts repbulican slave camps for
keeping all sinners in camps. But the real reason is that the weed
causes people to turn in to black culture and to like jazz and sex,
things that are as evil as terrorism, and because all things black are
to be repressed in a slave state, it should be illegal.

Visibility is zero here in the middle of Von Klauzwitz's fog.

Can't blame that one on Pious, he was Pope in the 50's as I remember him. Our anti-hemp laws predate his bishopship of Rome by about 3 decades.

It is a middle ages pope, who banned cannabis usage, which was common,
to stop the spread of "pagan religions".

is allowing it to be legal would lead to an increase in DUIs.

But the problem is that people who make that argument aren't also usually calling to revert to prohibition.

Of course, we all know how well prohibition went.

Some do though (perhaps in say Utah). In fact I'd say those people are pretty consistant actually. The majority of those that oppose legalization of mj really don't know anything about it. Politicians are the first that come to mind. Pop culture also has labeled pot smokers as lazy and stupid. Now certainly smoking too much mj (or consuming too much of any substance) makes someone less productive. At the same time, drinking hard liquor often is seen as sophisticated and suave (James Bond for example).

I recall reading one study that on the average, the toxicity effects are less than alcohol and the addictiveness is certainly less than nicotine.

There is no practical or rational reason to prohibit it. Unless society wants a strict ban on all substances prone to abuse (including many OTCs), it is very inconsistant to keep it illegal.

forward to today and think uzi drivebys from bloods & crips.

its speculation

its certainly a concern, one that should be researched after pot is legalized to make scientifically accurate DUI laws regarding pot

I recall reading one study that on the average, the toxicity effects are less than alcohol and the addictiveness is certainly less than nicotine.

Yep, its one of the most tested drugs in human history, its extremely safe. And its massively less addictive than nicotine (which is one of the more addictive substances known to man as well as being extremely toxic), also less addictive than alchohol or caffine

I'm a caregiver for my wife, I'm not going to get in to the details it would take a week to explain, But pain is a biggie here and for a while pain meds were backing her system up there is a fix its called reglan that gets her system running normal again but she gets sick as hell when that happens. In trying to find alternative treatments for pain I found a site in england where the gave me a recipe for pot brownies to alleviate pain. Now I had to find it, a problem because its not regulated here, and I wanted to know what I was buying, regardless of loosing my car or house if being caught with it. well I found a Intelligent soul thats been using it for years I figured him to be a safe bet for supply. In short got it, baked it, gave it to her and myself( I always take more in regards to alternative meds than her for side effect reactions so I know what to expect) And it worked ! for 2 weeks no opiates, but then came dry mouth and she couldn't cough up the sputum she needed to prevent pneumonia. I got another fix for that but Don't like to go there. anyway she's back on the opiates and doing fine. so for pain alone I know it works. I got to do the best I can on this crazy journey. I can only hope this helps someone on there's. peace.

This is probably the only man in history that is actually more evil than George Bush. This man is so evil Bush probably prays to an idol of him on his altar.

Check to see if industry types are the ones decry'ing pot...

Honestly, if marijuana were legal it would be so damned easy to get that we'd lose some take-to-the-streets Patriots to it. It's too easy to self-medicate in a fucked up situation like this country is in because of Bush- I'm afraid of making it easier.

At least, maybe hold off until he's out of power, we have "Fuck Fascism" Day, several of the highest-ranking officials behind bars or dancing in the gallows rope (all through due process and the rule of law, mind you)- then, maybe then we can afford to allow even more people to smoke some grass, chill out, and forget about Global Warming, Impending Economic Collapse, Terrorists who hate us (the ones who always will, I'm pretty sure they exist) the International Criminal Conspiracy to Make and Sell Uncomfortable Brassiers and everything else that removing his kind will not make immediately go away.

Still, nomatter how shitty the week is, ya gotta have a Sunday.

PB

lets assume that america has no back bone. Who would you rather have drive you to a hospital? A stoner or a drunk?

If it were a crime to lie to Congress. The BNDD and DEA would be the most indicted criminal organization in history.

and sporting events for the same reason.

...uh...people will eat more, get fatter?! No?!
Ok, how about this, people will be more mellow and not violent and...ok, that's a dead end too...
I know! People will question things and realize our gov't is full of CRAP and not be good little goose-stepping rethugliKKKons! DING DING DING!

Lu

It should be 100% legal. I think hemp is a gift to mankind in many ways besides just the high.

Harmful. I can't claim it's totally harmless. I know that when there were times I had smoked a lot, my throat would get sore and I would cough. That can't be good for you. I can't see how inhaling any kind of smoke wouldn't be at least a little harmful. In moderation though, I'd guess it's one of the safest recreational substances out there and shouldn't be anymore illegal than alcohol or cigarettes.

who said medicine can't taste good, and feel good. Free the weed.

The first time you try marijuana, you have set yourself upon the unavoidable, irreversible road to using every successive, harder drug... until you die of an overdose, strung-out, alone and unloved.

At least, that's what I remember the D.A.R.E. program teaching my kids. }(

but I forgot what it was

Marijuana is bad and should remain illegal because it tends to sap the energy of the progressives who smoke it. It tends to provide an escape for the poor, when what we really need is for the poor and disenfranchised to become more politically engaged. Furthermore, by keeping it illegal, we provide a robust black market community that tends to bring money into poor areas, where there are few jobs and money-making opportunities. By keeping it illegal, we prevent the multi-national drug and tobacco companies from claiming the lion's share of the profit. Lastly, marijuana is unhealthy like any other tobacco.

Many of the most creative artists and "out of the box" thinkers used cocain, heroine and alcohol and reefer. If you need a list, it may be easier to list the creative personalities that "didn't" embibe. imo

I'm all for legalization of marijuana. I think it's great stuff.

I've never used pot, but know lots that have.

It's bad because that's what they've brainwashed too many of us into believing. Repeat often enough, and folks believe it.

It should remain illegal because you can grow it yourself, cutting Big Pharma and Big Tobacco and Big Brother out of the profits. You'd also cut INTO the profits of the many industries that rely on pot not being so readily available and taboo to many that won't use it.

If you can't regulate it, it must be made/kept illegal. :sarcasm:

Do we really want that?
:toast: :smoke:

I support the Dutch approach to cannabis - illegal to grow and to market except for in very restricted locations, private use not criminalised, legal to use medicinally.

I also advised my children not to use it after my negative experiences with the drug in my younger years - paranoia, anxiety, etc.
Since my husband and sister had similar experiences I felt it might be a bad idea - inherited nervous system and all that - for them to use.

DemEx



http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/cannabis/low.shtml




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/medical_notes/227926.stm




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3409993.stm

it yourself: you can also make bathtub gin, but it's illegal to d oso, and your product probably won't be as good. Like I said last night, we should have the same laws for pot and alcohol. So, go ahead and keep it illegal to grow. This may not be completely enforceable, but I'm betting that the great American farmers can probably do a better job at growing the good stuff, anyway. Ever try growing corn in your backyard?

are easy to grow, and grow better than the commercial agri-businesses.

But I did many years in the past. I think it is less harmful than alcohol, but just as bad as cigarettes. I do agree that it should be legalized.

Cigarettes are far more addictive.
Cigarettes are far more toxic.
Cigarettes are far more carcinogenic.

It's "bad" in that it can affect your judgement, reaction time, etc. just as alcohol can. But if people want to smoke it, fine, just please don't drive, fly a plane, pilot a boat, or operate a train, okay? Also, please don't smoke it around me because the smell makes me nauseous (and I promise I won't smoke my cigarettes around you!)

The main thing about making it legal that would be bad is that the drug companies would probably take over and they would get the profits. Otherwise, I don't care if it's made legal.

1. Marijuana directly affects consciousness in mysterious ways. It has a tendency to make users question authority, or at the very least think that our whole authoritarian societal structure is ridiculous, which is a threat to the ruling class. Also, spilling bong water on your carpet makes it smell real bad. These deleterious effects clearly show that marijuana is BAD, BAD, BAD!

2. If we were to legalize (or even just decriminalize) marijuana, what do you think that would do to the prison industry, or the related prison slave labor industry? And what about the drug testing industry? We've got to think of the economy here!

Phony Paraquat Kits

During the 1978 Mexican marijuana paraquat scare, and while still a private citizen working for the state of Mississippi marijuana farm, this same Carlton Turner called High Times magazine to advertise a paraquat tester. Unknown to Turner, High Times was not accepting ads for any paraquat testers because all evidence showed the testers didn't work.

Turner apparently never thought High Times was ethical enough to check the contraption out. He assumed they would just take the ad money and run print the ad and make Turner rich.He didn't care if some kid died or was bilked out of money believing in his bogus paraquat test kit.

After this attempted mail fraud, this man became President Reagan's national drug czar in 1981, recommended by George Bush and Nancy Reagan.

Poisoning Pot Smokers
In August and September, 1983, Turner went on national television to justify the illegal marijuana spraying (by plane) of paraquat in Georgia, Kentucky, and Tennessee by the DEA. He said it would teach a lesson to any kid who died from paraquat-poisoned pot. Turner was forced to resign after announcing his conclusions in public that marijuana caused homosexuality, the breakdown of the immune system, and, therefore, AIDS.

do you have a link for that, thats very interesting

Here's the thread....

http://www.cannabisculture.com/cgi/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=683833&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

by the way, proceed with caution, in this police state we call America. I wouldn't recommend extensive web searching. I personally use no drug or alcohol products. imo

citizens, that needs to be front and center in every debate.

:hi:

will probably be the end of the war on drugs. fdr wanted the tax revenue, and an end to the expense. hard to argue with numbers.

Reagan & Bush 1 deficits. Of course, this one is a helluva lot bigger, so...
Got my fingers crossed. Someones gotta lead the way, though. Dr. Dean?

she is suffering from depression and axiety. she is having trouble eating. she tried pot a couple times when she was younger and knows that if she had some she would relax and eat. she actually said she would take some if someone could get it for her. it is a crime that it is illegal.

Think about it - you're at a concert or a night club or a ball game, someone's being really loud and agressive. Are they drunk or are they smoking pot?

having said that I think it should be legal. Its not worse then drinking or smoking cigs. It certainly does not cause crime or any increase in crime among the users.

The problem I have is with the delivery system. I have read about vaporizers which could lessen the bad parts of having to smoke.

And yes, vaporizers solve the health problems of smoking as does eating it.