I hate to say this but, "shut up" pessimists, just for a minute

Being a pessimist does not = being a realist.

In real life, good things happen too.

In real life, sometimes people wake up and realize that they are a lot smarter than they have been told. They know in their hearts and finally now in their minds that Bush is bad. Bush does not care. Bush is getting rich and flaunting it in America's face while everyone else is going broke.

Fuck him, the tide is able to turn. We CAN take down this evil regime.

Talk to people, be nice, show them that there are plenty of us that care and understand that their only crime was wanting to believe in something.

The Chimperor is naked and they're still powerful but they will never be undefeatable.

So chill with the pessimism when for the first time in 5 years, a big vast majority of Americans hate him!

There is 25% of this country that will never wake up, we have to able to write them off as the loonies they are. Quit obsessing over that small percent. We are doing better against these fuckers than we have in 5 years, the shit is starting to stick. So, please, please, please stop constantly tell people they are going to get away with it.

Maybe if, you, just for a second, thought the best about your fellow man instead of the abject worst, maybe you might be surprised.

So look, I am writing this out of love and hope, a hope for better world that CAN be ours.

Peace, chill with the death talk, have a nice evening.

Whatever gets you through the night...

As for me...I think we're fucked.

and as long as they don't destroy the entire human population, we WIN!

I live in the south there is plenty of rapture end of the world stuff we have to deal with sometimes.

Another one to catalog for a later date...

I never have and I never will understand the mind of a pessimist.

Tomorrow is another day.

What are you talking about?

is knee-jerk and long past getting old. I know a lot of us (libruls and assorted rational peepul) have developed some degree of cynicism as a defense mechanism against feelings of powerlessness, but now is not the time for that. Now is the time for offense, kicking ass and taking names. Now there WILL be accountability.

Okay, maybe not "now", but SOON.

in trouble.

I wonder when I see some of the whining babies here tonight!

These are people who want the left to remain a fringe minority in American politics. They want long winded essays, Universities, obscure book stores and Libraries to be the communication centers of left wing politics. They also like professors that come out and say stupid things. They don't like to see our politics move into popular culture- Movies, commercial radio. (Read: they don't like the left becoming popular) It is why so many of them hate Micheal Moore and AAR. They think being on the fringe and having a lack of power is romantic. They are one the biggest, if not the biggest threat to the left gaining real power. When you hear the word "iconoclast"-that usually means a defeatist elitist

me say this to you Mr_Spock:

unless you want me to rain some horrific reality on your head, back off the demeaning name-calling.
you get a look at what some of us have to face, you'd be one whining baby, y'self.

now, all you here who are so delightfully optimistic, please do continue cheering each other and the rest of us up!

thank you!!


peace!

Cause we CAN get them.

We may not get his ass in jail, but we might just get him out of power.

Till then my mantra is the same Impeach, Indict, Imprison

"Impeach, Indict, Imprison"

absolutely!!

keep on!


peace!

I go back and reread this, having seen it in an HBO clip. It ALWAYS makes me feel better. Because, know this: if he's saying stuff like this, other people are thinking it.

Bill Maher put it very well on HBO the other night:

"Mr. President, this job can't be fun for you any more. There's no more money to spend--you used up all of that.

You can't start another war because you used up the army. And now, darn the luck, the rest of your term has become the Bush family nightmare: helping poor people.

Listen to your Mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit cards maxed out. No one's speaking to you. Mission accomplished.

Now it's time to do what you've always done best: lose interest and walk away. Like you did with your military service and the oil company and the baseball team. It's time. Time to move on and try the next fantasy job. How about cowboy or space man?

Now I know what you're saying: there's so many other things that you as President could involve yourself in. Please don't.

I know, I know. There's a lot left to do. There's a war with Venezuela. Eliminating the sales tax on yachts. Turning the space program over to the church. And Social Security to Fannie Mae. Giving embryos the vote.

But, Sir, none of that is going to happen now. Why? Because you govern like Billy Joel drives.

You've performed so poorly I'm surprised that you haven't given yourself a medal.

You're a catastrophe that walks like a man. Herbert Hoover was a shitty president, but even he never conceded an entire city to rising water and snakes.

On your watch, we've lost almost all of our allies, the surplus, four airliners, two trade centers, a piece of the Pentagon and the City of New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky. I'm not saying you don't love this country. I'm just wondering how much worse it could be if you were on the other side.

So, yes, God does speak to you. What he is saying is: 'Take a hint.' "

Bill Maher
HBO-Real Time – Friday, September 9, 2005
Bill Maher: George Must Go
Bill used his "New Rules" segment to blast President Bush and told him it's time to go.
Video-WMP
It's so easy to parody his screw ups and Maher does it easily. Bill promotes the idea of a California recall election. He likes Gary Coleman. I'm leaning towards Mary Carey myself.

"if he's saying stuff like this, other people are thinking it."

i love this: "Take a hint"!

thank you for a laugh and further inspiration, calimary. i'm sending some of this uplift back round to you, and all here!


peace!

I love my politics mail group, it is the best.

Thanks for giving me something cool to send my friends.

I take well this sort of feedback :D

the character slurs, okay?

thank you.


peace

"when for the first time in 5 years, a big vast majority of Americans hate him!"


I got goosebumps just then!

:) :) :) :) :)

got that on a fortune cookie once

A cynic: "A man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) "Lady Windemere's Fan" 1891

He had a wicked wit, and a thoughtful philosophy.

I do agree we are now on the side of most Americans. However, I will not believe a word in Shrub's speech until I see action!

most Americans. It's that most Americans have come over and are now on OUR side. More are seeing bush the way we've always seen him.

And you watch - as the james sensenbrenners and other stingey republi-CONs nit-pick and whine and complain about having to help poor people (and that's the kind of word choice we should use when we speak of it) instead of giving more tax breaks to the rich or throwing away money we don't have on a war we can't win, in a fight we weren't ever supposed to pick, their true selves will be out there for all to see. And, hopefully, for people like us to continue to point out.

They won't look good. They'll look like Scrooges. And it'll be our job to keep pointing this out to people.

Besides, this is truly unfamiliar territory for bush and the idea of launching huge federal spending programs that evoke memories of FDR in his observers - is completely foreign to him. It's not in his character. It's not what he knows or moves around in comfortably. It isn't what he was served for breakfast every morning with his corn flakes when he was a kid. It isn't what he learned or was taught, or saw by example while he was growing up. He didn't hang with people who pulled themselves up from nothing. He hung with other spoiled pampered children of corner-cutters. He will have great difficulty sustaining this, and as Bill Maher put it so succinctly, he'll eventually lose interest and walk away - especially when he's had time to think about where he'd REALLY rather see all that money go. And when the usual suspects start yowling at him about overspending, and when the grover norquists of the world start scolding him and coaxing him back onto the reservation. He'll have a lot of people at the far end of this food chain who will find themselves with the shaft, AGAIN, and won't be afraid to say so, as they see their hourly wage whittled because some crony's business refuses to come in unless it can welch on paying them a living wage. And he better hope that, by then, they don't respond with torches, pitchforks, and angry crowds bearing down on the White House or Rancho Pendejo.

A fighter, no matter how powerful and seemingly invincible, can only take so many hits. After awhile, he's damaged goods. Period. And there's no comeback at that point. He either hangs up his gloves and goes into the burger-cooker business or he's so damaged that he's rendered virtually incommunicado.

We're not clear of this yet.

But then again, neither is he.

TASTY rant!

like the news is "working". Thanks for your advice - but Bush was on vacation for one month. Not us. We fight for a fair world and against elite welfare.

I just know it!!! x(

I have been saying this all day

The Emperor is Naked!

We aren't alone

They're gonna get away with it.

:rofl:

I just can't be so sure...

cuase that's who is running our country skanky old white dudes.

*tries to poke out his mind's eye with a spork*

Take heart! And keep fighting!

Truly - the only way we lose in the long run is when we give up.

Exactly.

And Rove's STILL gonna cut 'em off at the hipbone sockets.

:hide:

n/t

just to convince the OP that they are wrong.

You reply over and over all the while keeping their negative thread on the General Discussion page and ALL of the more positive posts fall to the way side.

It's annoying.

I justify if by letting more people see how annoying it is having to read the disturbing pessimism and thier bitter supporters. Exposing the harsh reality of the damage the pessimists can cause may allow them to think twice before bringing down our community with their temporary insanity...

my own anti-pessimism thread. The anti-pessimism definitely has a much longer staying power than kicking a depressing thread until people are so tired of it that it drops like a rock...

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

as are the rest of the Abu Ghraib photos. Nothing to be pessimistic about... yet.

I think we all need to realize that there really is a silver lining.

You are right...most of America hates Junior right now. What's even better, is that he hasn't even completed one year of his second term--and all ready he's in flames.

I admit--I drift in and out of despair, optimism, anger, sadness and sometimes denial.

It's all a part of the grieving process. We've all temporarily lost our America. Whether the loss is a temporary blip, or the beginning of a major loss--remains to be seen.

However, I think it's important to remain optimistic and creative. If we get too bogged down, that's when we give up.

Thanks for your post Melodybe! Very nice. :)

It's up to our party to deliver the final blow. On that end, I'm not pessimistic, ok thats a lie. However, even without Dem intervention, the Bush regime might likely take themselves out by their continuous fck-ups.

the party made me fell a lot better.

Watch out Lieberman, Biden, Feinstein, and Bayh!

And with great understanding about the pessimism ...

kick & nom., because I want to believe that the nightmare is nearing its end.

How many of Bush's supporters still support him? How many Republicans are ashamed of their leader? How many African Americans will vote for another Republican?

I have to believe we are near the end of this nightmare too. Then again, every time I think it can't possibly get worse... it does.

I'm an eternal optimist. A realist, but an optimist. However, if we don't do something to make sure that the Reps don't continue to steal elections, it won't make a damn bit of difference.

Hanging in there.

Truly - hang in there.

I really believe the momentum is now OURS.

IMPEACHMENT!!!!!!!

NOW!!!!!!!

Because this kind of approach is completely out of character for him. He's on unfamiliar turf and out of his comfort zone. And the jackals around him will try to find ways to make sure this doesn't stand in the glossy, shiny, warm-fuzzy way he described it. It's a show. And we'll see that soon enough. And so will everyone else.

I keep thinking that the pendulum can't swing any further to the right. It's got to start swinging back the other way.

Thanks for the encouragement.
:kick:

...Thanks for the reminder, he would have applied it exactly as you did. Welcome to DU Leeny :toast:

Yes, I was using what I learned about 20 years ago in a Sociology class with a great Prof.

He's a national and international horror.

It's confounding that the message even needs to be put out there for the left to keep fighting back.
One would think that this walking fiasco would have lost all support by now and that the fight would be over.

But in fact, it isn't over. He's trying to use this latest disaster he created to usurp even more power.

We're all hanging in there ... even if it's by just a thread.


Welcome to DU, Leeny. It's a great oasis of sanity.

them space--it's a very rude awakening.

Luckily, reformed reeps are like ex-cig smokers: They swing HARD to the other side...

We need people who voted for Bush to see the light and if we are jerks to them they will just dig their heels in the ground. Some people just don't pay attention. Hopefully, we have their attention now. We can't blow it by belittling them and acting superior.

Time and again we have sat slack-jawed as our Democratic leadership has gotten down on bended knee to this imposter President.

If I am to be removed of this feeling the following things need to occur:

1. The Democratic Party must get serious about investigating electronic voting and the election of 2004. No "talk" about investigating...I want to see an independent procecutor in charge. Like say...Fitzgerald.

2. Start calling Bush what he is...AN UNPOPULAR PRESIDENT.

3. Start calling this war what it is...AN UNPOPULAR WAR.

4. Investigate the pork and graft in the DHS creation, the Iraq War, and the soon to be rebuilding of NOLA.

5. FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT the Republicans at every turn. Give them no quarter. Adopt their winning style. The Democrat's knees buckle quicker than a $20 dollar whore when it comes time to give the boy king what he wants.

I wish I could be, but I can't.

Getting Bush out of office (which ain't gonna happen until the next election by the way) is not going to solve this country's problems. Pardon me if I don't share your exuberance that everything will be all right again as soon as a Democrat is reinstalled in the White House.

What is wrong with this country has been brewing just below the surface for a long time......and a lot has been out in the open but people have just plain looked away. There's too much to list but here's a start.

1. The poor are not suddenly going to rise up and become middle class.
2. Those that are racists deep in their hearts are not going to have an attack of conscious and love everyone overnight.
3. 44 million American are not going to suddenly have health insurance....in fact more and more will be added to the list of uninsured.
4. Our education system is not suddenly going to fix itself and start turning out geniuses.
5. This country is not going to stop bleeding jobs to other countries.
6. Politicians (of any party) are not going to en mass stand up and do what is right.
7. We are not going to reinvent the wheel and solve the energy crisis. We will go to war again and again over oil.
8. Global warming is not going to cool down until we are smack in the middle of an ice age......which is really what global warming is all about for those who can see past those rose colored glasses.

want to now shut up and be grateful. There is so much wrong with this country, the whole fucking system. So a few cookies here and there may give me a little sugar rush, but in the end I'm still hungry.

I'll shut up. I'll let the visualization of Bush being impeached work its magic. I'll let all those letters to the media and people in congress actually work. They won't get away with their crimes, only to make millions after leaving government, then get back in government to see that when they're out again they can make billions. Not this time. The next time you'll hear from me is when "the people take down this evil regime".

Wait, that was too pessimistic.

I'll just shut up starting....................now.

:patriot:

The revolution will happen without them. But they will lie and tell their grandchildren what heroes they were helping to bring down the evil Bush dynasty.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, and err on the side of assuming humanity is basically good. Negative people are typically a drag to be around, as well as poor conversationalists, and so I avoid them.

Having said that, I believe we can totally self-correct. I have seen bleak times before, and we waded through them then, too. Thing is, people have to wake up. What's different today is the mind-numbing droning onward of the media---it narcotizes people, to the point that they stop caring. That's what has to change, and that's where the danger is, IMO.

The lobster fails to realize it's boiling until it's too late.

This is a big job, so it's a very big fight. And the bad guys aren't going to go down easy.

But I suspect that when the die-hard, tax-cuts-for-the-rich, I-hate-big-government types on Capitol Hill start nickel-and-diming all these big ideas, and complaining about how much they cost, we can use that to further our cause. They won't suddenly "get religion" and realize that sometimes government actually IS there to help people, instead of (supposedly) "getting out of their way and off their backs" and leaving them on their own (read: high and dry, or in this case, flooded and drowned).

These leopards WON'T change their spots, nor will they suddenly reform and change their stingey ways, NOR will this change their view of what they think government will be. grover norquist's soul CANNOT be saved. And he's still a bigshot with these people, and he's not going to go away, either. And as people like him start pissing and moaning again, those who were lulled into thinking maybe we better get back to the New Deal will snap out of it and go back to their old ways. And the have-nots who were temporarily TOLD, at least, that they were moving to the front of the line, will realize it was all just talk, and they'll be angrier than ever. Only, this time, there will be more people than before who will be angry with them.

And we can work with that!

And HOW!

EVERYBODY.

Okay?

Now is when we have to think positive. Really. I don't mean to sound like a Mary Poppins or something, but Melodybe has a pretty damned good point here.

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS. - Mohandas K. Gandhi

We have a LOT of work to do. We all know that. But I choose to believe that sooner or later, good will out.

I don't know if they are going to get away with anything, but I do know that national mood tends to have zero effect on the length of a "president"'s term in office, unless a free and fair election arises. Nixon's term ended because he got caught red-handed abusing executive power criminally and the Republicans knew he was doomed to be impeached or even convicted by Congress or the Justice Department. In that case, the national mood happened to coincide with the Congressional mood. But in most cases, Congressional mood is the determining factor in whether a president is impeached. The American public was behind neither Andrew Johnson's nor Clinton's impeachment, but that didn't stop members of Congress either time.

This is why it is critical to get Democrats elected in 2006. It's critical to watch the election commissions in Republican controlled areas like hawks. Republicans are the obstacle. They must be removed.

Amen, amen.

A true pessimist
believes himself engaging
in optimism.

Do you really think that those of us who are more cynical are so because we're upset that 25-30% still love the King?

The polls are great. I'm glad that the media is finally doing it's job to a certain degree. I'm happy that public opinion has been shifting. I'm hardly doom-and-gloom around here, and I'm definitely able to look on the bright side and be hopeful when warranted.

But the realist in me has to acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things, that matters little. The problems are with the entire neocon agenda, and many of the messes they have made cannot be fixed. Those that can will take many, many years... and that's only assuming Diebold ceases to exist.

It's not pretty, I know. It's really fucking depressing actually. I try to be upbeat, and I have good days and bad days. But much of my remaining optimism died the morning of November 3rd, 2004. People weren't just being glib about that being the most important election of our lifetimes. While people think that people like me are just being cynical defeatists, I can't help but wonder if they're failing to grasp the enormity of the situation.

She was ranting about the media, and how irresponsible they have been to the shrub. She broke into this tirade on at least 4 occasions, and called for more government control.

I tried to ask if she felt that a government-run media would be dangerous, and if she held the same belief when Clinton was being crucified, but I did not get the chance.

My point is, (and I am no pessimist) they will spin this until most sheeple will say "what hurricane", and those who do remember will ask "How can he be responsible for an act of God?"

People feel the way they feel. It's what you do about the feeling that counts. I'm not always successful in combatting negative feelings with action, but that is the model of what should be done.

In J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy, he points out that it's not over until it's over and that to despair and give up is wrong. I think it's wrong to believe either extreme. Some people will look at the president's low approval rating and say, "Yea! We've won!" and give up. Some will look at the president's low approval rating and say, "Damn, we can't even get rid of him now!" and give up.

All I'm saying is that the actions that follow a feeling are important. It's nearly impossible to control a feeling; however, we can control actions.

Now, Ladyhawk, listen to your own advice for once. :D

I want to laugh at their fall on my deathbed.

I'm gonna do it, I will work every day until I die, to take power away from them.

1. We are saying that they can't be effective if they pessimistically give up.

2. We are saying that "sharing" the pessimism doesn't help us.

2a. If we are doomed, telling us we are doomed won't save us and won't make us feel better.

2b. If we are not doomed, telling us we are doomed won't save us and will in fact get in the way or sabotage our efforts to save ourselves.

2c. If you are depressed and would like some soothing empathy, just ask for exactly that, and especially ask for it in the Lounge and other forums more suitable.

2d. If you are depressed and don't want soothing empathy, get professional help.

YEARS the sleeping Americans are awakening. It's been a long,long time coming and it's finally happening now.

It's far more fruitful to set such negative thoughts/feelings aside and find satisfaction in the process of pursuing positive goals.

BULLSHIT. THEY HAVE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS BECAUSE OF THEIR SELFISH SELF-IMPOSED IGNORANCE - LOTS OF BLOOD.

are working harder and longer just to get by.

Keeping up with the news is generally depressing and after a hard day of sucking up shit for the man, I think is asking a lot.

Don't forget that more and more people are going broke, we are losing our great middle class, and it is all Bush's fault.

Meanwhile, he continues to flaunt his power and wealth in the faces of those he is robbing from.

That kind of attitude generally doesn't play well in Peoria.

It's only going to get worse. Pessimism is the only healthy response.

He is too egomaniacal to resign, and the GOP doesn't have the character or courage to allow an impeachment.

He is here until 2009, and it will only get worse.

Not if we give up too soon. We must keep up the fight.

....I can only add:
Pessimism? Pessimism breeds despair.
Optimism? Optimism breeds hope.
I have yet to see where despair has led to anything good. Pessimists please consider the effects of your words. Which words would you take back into history and offer up to the troops at Valley Forge?
America needs all of its soldiers now as much as then. I suggest to you all that a soldier fights better with hope on his or her side.
Melodybe is right in her second point too. The last 2 elections show us that we can not win without the help of more of our fellow Americans. I believe we should be reaching out to those who will listen, keep their anger from the betrayal focused on those who have betrayed them. Ask them this question; "Which of your goals were not accomplished by this administration?" A trick? Yes but a trick which may lead to open dialog. Because of the things we learn daily here in the Democratic Underground we should have the advantage in open dialog. If stumped, tell them that you will get back to them on whatever is stumping you then bring it here for dissection...
The goal is to win back votes here, there is another election coming up.

Bush, like Nixon, becomes a liability to the real guys who run this country. And so, as was the case with Nixon, the military-industrial complex will cut little Nero adrift.

We will wax rapturously: "The system works!" "Three cheers for America!"

The first neo-liberal female president is installed in 2008 (ooh, what progress!).

And the American Empire continues.