Do you foresee Dems and the left ever having a media machine like the GOP

has had in place for over a decade?

Seems to me that the DNC, under Clinton's control via Terry MacAuliffe, should have put together a message generating truth system to rival the GOP's lie monster. Even a small network could have fought for greater discipline of message for the Dems since Bush took office.

Clinton knew well that the RW machine worked daily at their messages against him and all Democrats. Why didn't the DNC make that a priority goal after 2000?

Just wondering if there's any insight out there because.....the RW media machine just pisses me off to no end and it's hard to stomach that the DNC had to know about this but did nothing to change the reality throughout the 4 years they had.

One of the reasons I supported Dean for chair is because I trust that he is concerning himself with this issue as he had witnessed firsthand how badly the media distorts against Dems while providing cover for BushInc.

I'm not against it, ... I just find it hard to see it actually happening.

broadcast, our samizdat, and our agora.

It is a bit surprizing how badly the right uses this toolbox.

I don't see us being able to get thousands of spokespeople to tell the same lie at the same time, then instantly say the opposite and deny we ever said the original lie. It's just not the nature of democrats. Repukes see lying as permissable because they're doing it for the "greater good," whatever that may be. They see lying as a perfectly acceptable tactic to defeat their enemies, to keep them confused, to suck up endorsements. They will literally say anything that will help them.

Bush is a master. Remember his bullshit about not getting involved in foreign wars, at least not without a firm time frame and exit strategy? They sold that bullshit to a thousand editorial writers, and they meant exactly the opposite. They couldn't WAIT to go to war and were just looking for any excuse.

As for getting our own media machine, not likely. Unfortunately, we tend to look at the gray areas, while the repukes phrase things in stark black and white. What makes a better headline? "Saddam, while a despot, plays a role in stabilizing the Middle East" or "Rape Rooms and Nukes"?

If we are to win, we must do so with nearly all of the media against us.
We need to win by a landslide, because they own the voting machinez too.

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Fixing the votes around the Party

Then why sign the Telecommunications Act is he figured it would be so bad? Guess that education of his didn't help in 1996.

"message generating truth system"

Sounds as if something like that could really work. I'm guessing a channel big enough to compete against the RW would need to be commercially successful. That's where the money is. So I'm sure that as time went on, more and more truth would come out on such a channel.

It's a nice idea, but news doesn't sell. Although if we got some hot women on the air, that could help.

truthful facts about the issues from the Dem platform pov.

Just SOME form of disciplined messaging so the left pundits aren't caught unawares or veer off on their own in a way that obscures the message.

It reminds me what harry Belafonte said just today at the Town Hall Meeting, he described a meeting between Eleanor, FDR and Philip Randolph.... Basically the story went like this, it was a private meeting and FDR let Randolph make his case... FDR then said that he understood and agreed with every single point that Randolph had made but asked him one favor "you need to make me do it".


Well we need to make them do it. Plain and simple.

1)The Democratic Party stops being so damn careful not to offend. That doesn't mean being offensive, but telling the truth without feeling the need to soft-peddle everything in order to "triangulare" and avoid offending the freepers.

And if they STOP APOLOGIZING all the time. Dick Durbin should have stuck to his guns about his Gitmo remarks, the Democrats should not have jumped on Daschle when he had the nerve to say something derogatoiry about Rush Limbaugh.

And, when Democrats have a positive and inspiring event like the Wellstone memorial;, they should not immediately help the GOP undercut it the next day by apologizing for going "too far" and making it "inappropriatly political."

2)The media sees the changes in the wind, and decidec that if they want to be on the winning side they have to start doing some butt kissing of Democrats and recognizing the majority audience of liberals, progressives and moderates.

I don't think Bush would have had as near an easy time without 9/11. Before that, I think we were still sneering at Limbaugh and the mainstream media hadn't been completely steamrolled yet. Do you really think anybody could have predicted the media being effectively neutered? Not so sure. I think they thought we would still be able to get the word out through traditional means, activist groups, NYTimes, columnists, etc. I think the DNC was caught a bit by surprise by the Bushies in 2000. Then again, I think there are still some who don't get it.

onslaught against him throughout his term. He KNEW they got their messages out daily into the mainstream with hardly any comparable counter effort.

No way could he have believed that any important truth would get past the organized onslaught.

Not Until the Democratic Party becomes corporate sell-outs like the Republicans. And when that happens, there will be no Democratic Party.

It's going to take a revolution to get this countries house back in order.

get their marching orders from the large multinationals. Since the Republican stated philosophy of "greed is good" more closely dovetails the corporate mindset, they have a willing mouthpiece for their spew. Any anti-corporate, pro-labor, pro-individual rights and freedom arguments are going to be watered down and marginalized by the media elites who are interested in a compliant, rabid consumer who supports unbridled capitalism.

In essence, the main reason the media seems to be such a RW shill machine is because that message so closely dovetails their corporate objectives.

The propaganda is relentless and effective...and most importantly, profitable. Follow the money...

a New Beast, so to speak, that in size and sophistication dwarfs anything Adolf Hitler or Joe Stalin ever dreamed of.

We are trapped, I think, in the inevitable Death of the Old Republic and the Rise of a horrific New Empire.

Does this mean give up? HELL NO! But understand that we are in the position of German Jews in a "kinder and gentler" Nazi Germany.