Who's willing to take it to the streets if Arnold wins?

Will you protest the end of democracy in California if Arnold becomes governor with fewer votes than the No vote gets?

I hope I don't get accused for "right wing spin" but Arizona was going to have a recall about 10 years ago for a very unpopular and racist republican governor, but later on a scandal erupted and the recall was unnecessary because he got impeached. My point is it is not undemocratic for having a recall, having more yes then no votes mean most people want him gone, that's democracy. The replacement gets more votes then the other replacements and becomes governor, that is democracy. In democracy the majority rules. Now if I lived in California I would vote 'No' on the recall and tally one for Bustamante just so you know.

in a Democracy, you have another recall and get him out.

is more then the rest of the other candidates yes it's democracy. You have to remember there are around 200 candidates running, Ventura became governor of Minnesota with 38% of the vote which was more then any other candidate.

who wanted to keep Davis, is that democratic?

the guy who comes in second place wins?

and since Democrats did nothing to stop the recall law before, I have to assume they didn't have a problem with it either

a century ago. And who's going to overturn the law? The second someone did, the other side would have destroyed them. Can you imagine?

Back when the recall law was passed, women and blacks couldn't vote 'cuase that was the law.

It took a revolution to change those stupid laws too.

Right now, we need a revolution for democracy.

do it anyway?

Your revolution idea is interesting...tell me, just where will the voices for this revolution come from?

Like I said, step aside Terwiliger. Don't get in the way.

they had 90 years to change it!

I'm going to tell you this as well: Comprehension is not requisite for cooperation.

However, comprehension is nice. Overturning this law is a huge political hot potato. Who is goint to overturn it? The minute you do, you raise suspicions. Why would someone want to remove the recall mechanism. They're up to no good. Neither Democrats nor Republicans overturned this law. It's a tool to keep the rich in power as well, and both parties are worried about what the rich think. It doesn't make this law right.

How do you sustain year long protests?

Who's going to back you?

Razor blades to the wrists? Lengthwise cuts?

just browbeating those that dare disagree.

in democracy.

and not a very valid one.

But continue showing how tolerant you are of those who disagree.

They better bury us all with snow shovels in case we go to hell!

:toast:

that was out of left-field...what do you mean?

What's your problem?

when are we going?

(Say gray davis loses and Arnold wins)

Most people wanted Gray Davis Gone. MOST

Most people wanted Arnold as the Replacement. MOST

There is nothing undemocratic about a recall, where were you in the late 80's in Arizona? Where were you when some freepers tried to recall John McCain but failed to get enough signatures?

on the second half of the ballot where he still might have received more votes than the 500 other candidats.

Please explain to me how that is democratic?

This recall takes two emotions..."do you like this guy?" and "if you could vote for someone else, who would it be?" and divides them up in a way so that you can get a different result than if you had a normal election in which you asked "among all these people who want to represent your interests, who do you want?"

I wish we could vote for Republicans the way this recall is run.

People DON'T LIKE POLITICIANS. They vote for the best of a bunch of people they don't really like all that much. JFK, Nixon, LBJ, Reagan, GHWB, Clinton, Carter, GWB all probably would have lost elections if they were separated out from the rest of the pack and you first voted on whether you liked them. But that's not how we run elections.

This stupid law is DESIGNED to get out of office someone who would win a DEMOCRATIC election.

51% what Davis gone that is a majority

A recall is different then a regular action a recall's sole purpose is to determine whether or not the majority of the people want the currect governor gone.

It is up to the second ballot to decide who the governor is, if one of the replacements gets more votes then the others he is governor.

They have two ballots BY DESIGN to get the undemocratic result they want.

The TWO BALLOT part is part of the problem.

To me, a vote of "no" on recall is a vote for Davis. Say "no" gets 47% (losing to "yes", at 53%).

Then suppose Arnold wins with 32% of the vote.

47% of California wants Davis, 32% wants Arnold. Arnold wins.

Its bullshit.

You still have your critical faculties.

Thank you.

I think its just that I am really cynical.

And, we can always recall!!!!

but less than a year ago there was an ELECTION for Governor in CA. If everyone was so fucking fed up w/ Davis - why was he on the ballot? He was elected w/o rigged voting machines, recounts or the Supreme Court. This recall is many things....one thing it is NOT is democratic!

RE-DEFEAT BUSH!!!

in joy!

It's a joke!

like that will do a DAMN thing

We didn't take the blue pill either, and nobody gave a damn.

popularity ratings are so low today.

What do you think that national mood would be like today if there wasn't a mood then that produced those protests?

and your question would be moot

What atmosphere do you hope to create? Civil war? Republicans wont be out in the street talking disenfranchisment if Arnie wins.

And you people are fine purveyors of how bad the system is...you know, that same system where you folks tell me I have to shed ideological notions for the good of the cause :eyes:

and THAT'S why we went to war.

which is why we have to make a stand now.

We should have taken it to the streets in Dec 2000. That's when you could have stopped the war.

Are we going to make the same mistake with California?

in the streets in April 2002 against the war

please don't tell me about being in the streets

What you seem to fail to realize is that (mainly) only Dems care that there's no democracy....and only some Dems, not all

If you've had enough, then why discourage all those DU'ers who might remind you of a younger, more idealistic Terwilliger circa January 2000 or April 2002.

What has happened since April to make you such a cynic?

the fact that Democrats wouldn't (and still won't) do anything they should do...

you know...stupid shit like that...stupid shit like thinking there might be someone in government to represent all of us that would go into the street..

Fact is, AP, Dems would run away from anybody who went to the street to protest. "Get over it" Kerry said...get over it, indeed

Did Bush play the war exactly right? Did it break the backs of everyone willing to protest in defense of Democracy?

what are you going on about?

what do you suggest??

no

and favorable bias towards Arnold. IT is disgusting.

it's two separate ballot issues

Read my post above about why there are two different ballots.

Call out the instigator because there's something in the air.
We've got to get together sooner or later because the revolution's here.

And you know it's right.
And you know that it's right.
We have got to get it together.
We have got to get it together now.

Run through the fields and houses 'cause there's somthing in the air.
We've got to get together sooner or later because the revolution's here.

And you know it's right.
And you know that it's right.
We have got to get it together.
We have got to get it together now.

Call out the instigator because there's something in the air.
We've got to get together sooner or later because the revolution's here.

And you know it's right.
And you know that it's right.
We have got to get it together. We have got to get it together now.


(I should note, I'm NOT advocating violence...think of "guns" and "ammo" as being metaphors for "truth" and "justice").

but I don't live in California/

Sorry, but the Constitution of the state is the supreme law.

If you don't like the recall provision, tell your elected representatives that you want it changed.

you wouldn't protest that?

Folks, it's OK to protest bad laws which produce undemocratic results.

If it said that women couldn't vote and blacks were 2/5 people you wouldn't protest that?

That is not what I wrote.

Folks, it's OK to protest bad laws which produce undemocratic results.

That's another Straw Man. I never said it wasn't OK to protest.

I said I would not protest. I would start writing letters to my elected representatives and suggest some changes to the Constitution, which I have already done in fact.

If you don't get it, that's fine. Another thing to consider...

This is your last chance, slackmaster.
After this, there is no going back.
You take the blue pill and the story ends.
You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe
You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
Remember that all I am offering is the truth.....

It is not the end of the world or even the end of Democracy if Gray Davis is ousted by a majority of people who cast votes today and someone else replaces him. It's just an event in an ongoing history of how our systems of government adjust themselves. With an adversarial system it's inevitable, even desirable for conflicts to flare up and for power to shift one way then another.

it's a very significant issue.

And if I guy comes in second in an election and wins, that's 'unelected', in my book.

If more than half of the people vote Yes on the recall that means they want Gray Davis out no matter who wins Question 2.

If they don't like those odds they can vote No on the recall.

It's an unusual election, but those are the rules.

BTW - Gerald Ford became President of the United States even though he got ZERO votes for the office. We all survived the experience, although his limo damn near ran me off the road once.

If the rules are wrong, you protest them, and you change them.

You don't sit back and swallow the blue pill.

then you're expected to just sit and take it

I think time would be better spent composing thoughtful, clear communications to state senators and assembly members.

It would be nice to be either young and underemployed or in school, or older and retired. Either way I'd have more time for outdoor fun activities like going to protests. Right now I have responsibilities like work, my volunteer activities, and constructive political dialogues.

I applaud your willingness to protest, but must send my regrets this time.

and mastering your slack, or whatever it is you do.

certainly isn't doing a damn thing to show your maturity in dealing with any real tangible things that might help.

I am a Living Time Control Master and a Supreme Supervisor of the Church of the SubGenius, and you will respect my authoritayh.

:eyes:

It's really easy to dismiss.

I did more than most Democrats did...SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU LAYING THIS SHIT ON ME?!?!

Nobody made you post to this thread. And, jeez, listening to your negativity almost makes me want to slit my wrists. So, instead of giving into defeatism, I'm giving you a lot of shit.

I thought that much was obvious.

If you don't want shit laid on you, stop listening to Morrissey, get out in the sunshine for a little light therapy, and stop complaining in this thread.

I'll be happy to help my buddy Terwilliger out on this one.

:evilgrin:

Hmm.

orry-say.

uhday.

You, me, and slack can go protest...ok...we will...

what happens then?

It made me miss some classes and was generally a sucky experience.

I just want to know what effect my protest will have on anything :shrug"

what would it really accomplish?

I see we have a lot of work to accomplish here.

What issue would make you take it to the streets? Just curious.

like many I did take to the streets against the war and it didn't change a damn thing.

So please,instead of a smart ass condescending answer how about really answering honestly.

Forget about it.

Sit home. Read DU. Don't do anything.

Sorry to momentarily upset your sense that that was doing something.

You've convinced me I'm wrong.

Go back to what you were doing.

And feel good about it.

and have to resort to childish behaviour and insults.

sad,but expected based your previous answers in this thread.

else I've posted at DU, or if you really really just don't like groups of people expressing in public their dissatisfaction with the slow demise of American democracy.

I don't know if I'd have more respect for you if it were the former or the latter.

and I could care less if you respect me or not.

And please stop putting words in my mouth.If does your argument no good and makes you look even more foolish than you already are acting.

No way, no how. I want whoever is in office to succeed and for the situation in the state to improve. tying up my city will do nothing to accomplish that.

Northwest swell coming in now!



Cowabunga.

and never visit again as long as the sexual assualter is in. I used to like to visit, but I think all womens groups should boycott the state until the rapist in charge is ousted.

Nobody's accused Arnold of rape. At least not yet.

And I'll bring along some friends. I know that the legislature would have no issues with making ahnuld's life totally miserable.