Clark's campaign manager has quit...

Donnie Fowler (he was Gore's field advisor) has quit the Clark campaign over differences with communications adviser Mark Fabiani of California and policy adviser Ron Klain of Washington.

All three are veterans of Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign.

No link yet... AP e-mail alert...

Not sure Gore's former field advisor would be the person I would choose to run my campaign.

Not sure Gore's former field advisor would be the person I would choose to run my campaign.

Good point, considering how poorly Gore ran his campaign. Hopefully Clark'll find someone good to replace him.

NT

He means the same campaign crew that only managed to get 48% of the vote running on a record of unparalleled prosperity and against an opponent that can't speak English.

Obviously Gore's staff wasn't as sharp as Clinton's 92 staff but they got the job done. He won, then got skull fucked by the BFEE.

!

Clinton got 49.24% of the vote. Gore only got 48.38%. Absolute vote count doesn't mean shit when you are talking about different election years, unless your inclined to think it relevant that Bob Dole got more votes than FDR.

Obviously Gore's staff wasn't as sharp as Clinton's 92 staff

Any campaign that can only get 48% with all the advantages that Gore had doesn't deserve to run any more campaigns. 'Nuf said.

He also had to run againt Clinton's penis, which was sad but true. I still say they ran well enough to win. Lest we not forget about Florida.

What field did they cover in the Gore campaign? Their strategy was thus: take everybody for granted. You're the incumbent.

That's pretty much my take on it too.

...RNC would have us believe.

"Not sure Gore's former field advisor would be the person I would choose to run my campaign."

Did you have any complaints before?

... Fowler was a bad choice. We discussed it in depth at many Democratic Party meetings...

After all, we're just yes men to our PNAC plant.

You sure know a lot about my life here and outside of DU.

I'm honestly not sure how to read that.

Are you being sarcastic? Because my comment was a sarcastic remark towards Closer, because my answer was what I felt the question was leading to, given Closer's post history.

Sorry, I just got off work, so I'm in a smart-assed mood right now.

...and I answered it... then it appeared you answered it for me as well.

You're right, I misinterpreted your remark. Sorry.

childish snipes. Don't let it get to you.

chairman of Clinton's 1992 campaign.

Clinton/Gore operatives in the Clark campaign (minus Fowler now) are:

Eli J. Segal, a former Clinton administration official who was chairman of Clinton's 1992 campaign; Ron Klain, a strategist for Gore; and Mark Fabiani, a communications specialist for Clinton and Gore. Bruce Lindsey, a close Clinton friend and a lawyer in the Clinton White House; Mickey Kantor, who played a key role in the Clinton-Gore campaign and was Clinton's commerce secretary.

Do you or anyone else have a take on that?

Fowler was the field manager for Gore... Eli J. Segal ran Clinton's '92 campaign. Which was the winner?

Again, Eli J. Segal's appointment is a rumor for now.

He chairs Americorps, kind of a domestic version of the Peace Corps, I think. This would tie in to Clark's talk about New American Patriotism, and volunteerism.

who's NOT an insider in Clark's campaign?

Sheesh!

So much for the grassroots! I guess that's what Fowler was hoping for. Let's hope Dean can pick him up.

There are some Graham campaign runners up for grabs now.

they did a hellova job on the draft. bipartisan. grassroots.

But I hope that they're not keeping the one who dressed Gore up in the Reagan costume for the debate. Whoever made that choice should find another line of work.

n/t

On edit: IMHO Fowlers departure won't have much of an effect one way or another.

waste. The campaign is only 3 weeks old. I'm sure that they will find a way to make use of John's talents and enthusiasm.

Several times actually. If you know him, tell him Shane said hi.

I knew that Clark had some "Gore folks" on board...I still don't know one from the other...but my immediate reaction was "are you fucking nuts, lose them"! The one thing anyone watching '00 knows was that Gore running on peace and prosperity, etc. never should have even had a close race. His staff was a goddamn disaster and not a place for his damn kid to "play political advisor". I was okay with any former Clinton people or whomever but I couldn't understand why Clark, or anyone, would want someone from Gore's campaign. Remember, both Gore and Bush weren't running against an incumbent and yet Gore did this poorly. When running against an incumbent, a Gore 'person' would be a total disaster. That's why I hoped he wasn't getting into the Donna Brazille, etc. mode. In fact, she's a good case in point. I've watched her just recently do a bunch of shitting on the Dems---we don't need these people. As Al said: MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

good riddance. Worst advice ever given.

If I were Clark right now, I would seize control of the campaign right now. I'd have a loyal campaign manager and write a letter to the Clark bloggers and tell them how much respect you have for them.

I mean, it's the online bloggers that are the ones that made this possible. There the ones who deserve the recognition.

And although Clark probably is not the average politician, I'm sure he knows what he is doing.

I couldn't have said it better...

I just received mine.

before you all bash the heck out of this guy, get a handle on what he said. It's true! The internet supporters are basically out in the cold right now, except for the occasional email request for money. Oh, and a blog that goes down frequently...

Meetup is in 6 days and we have nothing. No campaign materials, no direction. Now I"m not wanting to be the voice of doom and I understand that the campaign is just now getting it together. But you have to keep it real....

campaign website needs an immediate overhaul. It rates with me as one of the ten yuckiest sites on the web. It's an eyesore. :puke:

I've seen worse. Far worse.

In fact, I've designed worse. Makes you wonder why I got out of the web development business, doesn't it? :)

Even if Dean loses...Trippi's already won. But I still say the Draft Clark guys are awesome.

a piece of paper makes you a Democrat. What a bunch of crying and whining. Good grief indeed.

You have no direction? What was your direction before Wes was a candidate? To spread the word and get him to join the race. OK. You got him. What is the obvious objective now? GET HIM THE NOMINATION. How? The same way you got him in. Ingenuity, resourcefulness and the realization that you are capable of changing the course of events in American politics. Of course you can't do it alone but you aren't alone and you never were. But you do matter. You are key, you are crucial. If you meant what you said when you wanted him in, keep going, keep moving. DO NOT WAIT FOR LITTLE ROCK!

Did you do this for accolades and kisses? Yes; this campaign is ONLY THREE WEEKS OLD. Sheesh, think about it. Others have had months to a year or better to work this shit out.

Clark has thanked his supporters many, many times. Did you think he wouldn't need money quick coming in as late as he did? Does it count less if he asks you for monetary support while thanking you for your moral support and the energy you have invested?

He's hopping all over the country and the national campaign isn't just giving lip service to the local supporters, in many cases they are positively RELYING on local coordinators at events and appearances. THIS IS NOT A CONVENTiONAL CAMPAIGN. Whatever some of the other candidates may be pushing as their "grass roots campaign" - - - - Wes Clark is the real deal.

Real grass roots is sometimes messy, and often times it will NOT move in parallel with conventional campaigns with their pretty buttons and glossy bumper stickers. How many buttons and bumper stickers did the Graham campaign hand out?

Other candidates have lots of "stuff" to hand people but do you think ANYONE says to themself; "Hey look at this cool bumper sticker that chick handed me! Wahoo! I guess I'll vote for this guy!" ??

Let the other candidates have the best "stuff" for all I care. WE HAVE THE BEST CANDIDATE! WE HAVE THE CANDIDATE WHO CAN WIN!!!


We are the reason he's here in this race. Let me share this with you from a Clark board I was a part of:


>>>>>>From the moment that Wesley Clark announced his candidacy he, and we, have been hit by round after round of merciless attacks. They have come from the media, they have come from his disgruntled former colleagues, and they have come from the extremists on both the right and the left.

They have hit us early and they have hit us hard. It’s a classic, and frankly, smart battle move to hit us at the dawn of our struggle while they know our belly is still a little soft, before we’ve hit our full stride. The other campaigns have had the luxury of months and years to sharpen their edge and harden their armor. This is not a traditional campaign and that is a luxury we do not have.

We all believe strongly in the General. We believe in his leadership ability, we believe in his integrity and we believe he is the right man to be President of the United States. Now it is time to find out if we believe in ourselves as well, now we find out what WE are made of.

It’s time to re-examine our expectations about the time leading up to the announcement and what would happen after it finally came. It would have been a pleasant surprise to have an iron solid framework of official campaign offices professionally staffed in every state at noon on September the 17th. It would have made it easier for us certainly but have we considered what an ACME style just add water campaign would have implied? It would have made the draft movement a lie. That is not our candidate.

Wesley Clark is a new kind of candidate in our times, called by scores of thousands around the country to run. It was UP TO US to call Wesley Clark into this race and now we have him. NOW IT IS UP TO US to keep this momentum going. Wesley Clarks campaign will have much to do with national service, with service to our country in classic Kennedy style. NOW is the time of OUR calling!

If national steps in at whatever you are doing and says “We’ll take it from here” fine, be grateful and move on to your next project. Until then keep working and doing everything you can! If you are overwhelmed, DELEGATE, think of one person in your group and individually tap them for help with a heartfelt plea. This often works better than a generic call to a group, where everyone thinks someone else will do it.

Who has this movement been about really? It’s been the Draft Wesley Clark movement, now the elect Wesley Clark movement but just who has it been about? I submit to you it’s been about every single person in your life that you love. About our elderly parents and the great grandchildren we don’t yet have. It’s been about our neighbors in our communities and our neighbors in the world. We know who Wesley Clark is, and we know he is the right man to lead our nation and the world in a direction that will benefit all of us. If we really meant what we said when we told him that we wanted him to run we’ll be here for him now.

I, for one am going to start by doing today things I have put off because I’ve been afraid I don’t know how to do or that I’ll make a mistake. I’m going to do the things that are hard because they need to be done. I’m going to do these things because in the here and the now, if it’s going to get done, it’s going to have to be me.

“We can do better, we WILL do better, and we will do it together” – Wesley Clark, September 17, 2003

Everyone has moments of despair, and every campaign will go through soaring highs and moments when it looks like all may be lost. I challenge everyone here to keep our eyes on the prize and our energies focused in the RIGHT direction, to do the hard things and to keep going, because in the end, if it’s going to get done, it’s going to have to be all of us.

Wanda xxxxxxxxxx Nebraska <<<<<<<<<

In addressing Clark supporters wishing for more direction and/or guidance from the campaign we get:

What a bunch of crying and whining.

Later, to bolster the argument that wishing for such guidance from central campaign is for babies and real Clark supporters need no such thing we get posting from "list" that, in part, says:

From the moment that Wesley Clark announced his candidacy he, and we, have been hit by round after round of merciless attacks. They have come from the media, they have come from his disgruntled former colleagues, and they have come from the extremists on both the right and the left.

They have hit us early and they have hit us hard. It’s a classic, and frankly, smart battle move to hit us at the dawn of our struggle while they know our belly is still a little soft, before we’ve hit our full stride. The other campaigns have had the luxury of months and years to sharpen their edge and harden their armor. This is not a traditional campaign and that is a luxury we do not have.

Correct me if I am mistaken but this smells a little bit like *gasp* whining. I mean, what did they expect in American politics? That rival camps would abandon their efforts and flock to Clark? I don't see that Clark has gotten any worse than any other candidate. Wanda seems to think immunity should be granted in some instances. (?)

The one thing I would hope Clark supporters would look at is the bolded sentence in that statement. Clark's is NOT a traditional campaign, a main reason being that he was drafted/convinced to run. It would seem a sensible thing to persue that non-traditonal path that has been so successful this far. It doesn't seem that Clark's campaign wants to do that. It appears to me this resignation was because of this stance.

We don't have TV, print or radio on our side. Those are traditional venues (as well as the in-person events). With those main media avenues closed to us (Dems) I see little choice but to utilize the tools that have made Clark a serious player in this race to begin with, most notably the internet.

Just my $.0125

Julie

That'll leave a mark.

is this further indication of Clark's inability to govern?

but it is really, really early. And who knows what will happen...in spite of wishes or illusions.

They'll get it together...or they'll be history.

Just read in the preface of Clark's book....this ain't a guy that likes to lose.

the way you STALK the Clark threads?

If they do name them and I will try personally to speak with them. I will do my best.

If you do not respond I will be forced to begin at some point stalking your guy as you have here and I will prefrace my every comment with something resembling -

because Terwilliger STALKS the Clark board, I am forced to drudge/insinuate/imply/lie/bitch/snark/attack on this thread. Please direct all replies to Terwilliger.

Then I will submit my very sensible comment such as the one you have made here, matching the many others of it's calliber.

That is all.

I haven't made many comments in Clark threads lately...take some medication

See I hit a nerve................ :nuke:


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I'll post more often as a result

oooh ooh....... meeeee toooo..............

Really, I don't think he limits it to Clark....

he pretty much likes to pile on Democrats in general :)

Love Ya Terwilliger!

outside of political junkies like ourselves no one will even notice.

... then why did it show up as one of the top 5 headlines on my Yahoo! News? (Top U.S. National AP stories, 35 minutes ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=533&ncid=533&e=3&u=/ap/20031007/ap_on_el_pr/clark_campaign_manager

I just thought that was a little weird...

(Edit - to clarify it was US National AP - and it's probably because of the "35 minutes old" deal but I wouldn't expect to see this classified as a "Top Story")

:)

Say you relied on "British intelligence" :evilgrin:

:)

See ya around!

Donnie Fowler is no longer keeping tabs on Democrats for TechNet, the
Palo Alto-based network of technology companies. He's now focusing on
just one Democrat -- Wesley Clark. The former Army general who is
running for President has appointed Mr. Fowler to the top campaign post.

snip
Mr. Fowler's involvement with the campaign may be a sign that Mr.
Clark's campaign is able to reach deep into the heart of well-established
Democratic Party insiders.

snip
The younger Mr. Fowler served as a national field director for the
Gore-Lieberman campaign in 2000. He also worked in the office of the
chairman of the Federal Communications Commission and was a staffer in
the Clinton White House, where he served as a legislative liaison.

At TechNet, Mr. Fowler was in charge of the organization's involvement
with Democrats. Among other things, he tried unsuccessfully to get Bay
Area Democratic members of Congress to support the fast track trade
legislation last year.

on board with 'fast track' trade authority. Unsuccessfully. Good on ya bay area dems! Fast track is not a bad thing in principle - but with these nuckleheads in the WH - not a good thing.

then good for him. Ron Klain is a "pesumptuous, condescending, piece of work, IMHO!

Clark should dump him.....and let's see on camera what the rest of his group looks like.

"Democratic presidential contender Wesley Clark's campaign manager quit on Tuesday after being asked to take a reduced role in the fledgling operation, two Clark campaign sources said.
Donnie Fowler left the three-week-old campaign rather than take over the political operation for Clark, whose early performance has been plagued by missteps, including his reversal over whether he would have supported a congressional resolution authorizing war in Iraq.

Fowler "was asked to take a lesser role but still an important role" but declined, one Clark campaign source said.

Fowler also had clashed with Clark advisers over the role of Internet activists who pushed Clark into the race through a draft movement. Their role has been eclipsed under the influence of some of former President Clinton's top advisers."

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=3574399

wouldn't have popped off like that about the internet thing.

This infighting might explain why Clark was a little off last night --he had other things on his mind.

was he on?

the side of " I am diva and you WILL love me"

That kinda side. I trust Wesley Clark will have the right instincts to make it through this tiny, tiny litle bump.

i would say it's a gain to get rid of him. the clinton people are the ones who know what they are doing.

in history except Reagans reelection bid?

One, at a Town Hall Mtg in NH, his first I believe, Clark was asked what what he considered to be the biggest mistake of his career.

I don't recall all the details but the gist was that early in his career he'd been put in a position over the guy who had held the same job before him. Clark said his regret was that he relieved the guy of his command instead of learning to work with him.

Now Fowler, who presented Clark with a ready made, bottom up campaign which must have supplied most all the money he's raised with their pledges, leaves? Seems ironic to me.

Second, I *hope* one of the other campaigns is smart enough to get Fowler on the horn!

I think some folks would be turned off by that. Also, Clark did not fire him, from what I can tell, but tried to reduce his role in the campaign, at which point Fowler quit. Fowler worked for Clark, but it's a different relationship than the one Clark referred to in NH. In the military, Clark would have been expected to mentor his underlings -- it's a huge part of organizational leadership. In this situation, though, it was part of Fowler's job to mentor Clark, as the political neophyte. He was apparently not doing a great job of it.

From someone who couldn't be more in favor of Clark, his failure to either get his team on board or ASSESS his team in the first place is going to hurt him.

There are only so many "growing pains" that can be forgiven in a candidacy for the Presidency. Clark is about out of free passes.

To the best of my knowledge, not one Clark volunteer has received one single e-mail or any serious guidance from the campaign. That shit has got to change.

DTH

in the long term at all. Just a small passing cloud in a long season of magical sunny days and occsional storms. This one won't matter a bit.

Unfortunately, it's negative news and lost organizational time that Clark does not need right now. For a logistics expert like the General, I'd have hoped he'd have gotten his house in order by now.

DTH

I think the General is focused on the goal, getting his house in order is precisely what I believe is happening now.

I think Mr. Fowler lost sight of the goal, and that's why he's moved on.

All the best Mr. Fowler, but don't do the bitter grapes thing on your way out please........

It's so............... predictable.

candidates really 'want' the position. Clark was drafted, which is great, but you gotta wonder if he's as motivated as those that went for it on their own?

I looked the man in the face this morning and he told me we would win this thing.

I believe.

If you get the chance to see him interact with real people anywhere ................... DO!

He doesn't stop, he doesn't give up, he doesn't throw out platitudes and he doesn't gloss over anything. He listens intently to what they have to say and the questions they have and he stays with them. Stays with them until they smile back at him, stays with them until they understand they have been heard.

He wants it. He has the fire. And he has "it".


efs

And I'm attending a Breakfast to meet the General in San Francisco on October 10th. It's a thank you to the drafters for our support.

So there!

I saw the General here in Los Angeles a few days ago. We had to learn about the appearance from our local movements and the main campaign website, not from an e-mail from the campaign itself.

I hope your e-mail and thank you breakfast indicate a greater usage of the e-mail list.

DTH

.............But ask ........

" What have you done for me lately?"

:wtf:

CCW

I've donated LOTS of money, attended many events, attracted about a dozen supporters, defended the General tirelessly on this forum, slapped a Draft Clark bumpersticker on my car and worn my button everywhere.

So don't you try to label me as some fair-weather supporter, please. Don't you try to get all "holier than thou" just because I'm expressing some concerns about a campaign I know and love.

You might do well to listen to the General's own words: dissent is democratic.

DTH

Definitely one of the most tireless supporters of Clark there is. As a Dean supporter, while reading this thread, I gave a lot more credibility to the words of Clark supporters than any others and to see DTH voicing some criticism I know that it is out of concern.

If nothing else this tells me DTH is no blind supporter of anything but I cannot say same of those who would lash out at a fellow Clark supporter for caring enough to voice their concerns.

Good for you DTH for speaking your mind and working so hard for what you believe in. I look forward to working with you after the nominee has been chosen, whoever it may be. Someone who will offer honest criticism of something they hold dear is an asset. Without that honesty you can't make needed changes/improvements.

Julie

Way to go, establishment insiders!

To all who are trying to hash this out. DTH_you have been a great voice of reason on the blog.

I think that one thing that must be understood is that there were two draft movements; and while these movements worked towards the one goal, there were some problems that existed between them long before Clark entered. Reading between the lines, I sense that the struggle wormed its way into the official campaign. Hlinko seems to be in place unless I've missed something.

I liked the reminder that whomever one supports in this primary season, the eventual outcome of 2004 will effective not only our lives but generations to come. Talking with some folks after work today, I said much the same thing. This is so my kid and her kids will be able to live in this country.

On another forum, an ex-NASA employee and a current NASA poster were discussing the junta's move to place the space program under Pentagon control. Apparently that is where the money is being shoved while the current NASA buget goes begging. Two international treaties are the only stoppers to bushco's eventual goal of making the militarization of space a reality with one of the strongest believers in this at the helm of the JC, Myers. This was no I'm-just-braggin'-it-up-on-the-internet conversation. After yesterday's California vote, I'm not very hopeful about stopping them.

And BTW, having someone in the WH who believes in international agreements and knows who are the loony supremos in the Pentagon, would be a good thing.

The Clark campaign in some ways does not effect me. Would I like to see them run a tighter ship? Oh sure. But I must ask myself not what they are doing, but what am I doing. The answer I give must satisfy me, because it really is my life, our lives, in the balance.