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Taking Out the Trash: Cheney Directly Involved In Leak Scandal

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:33 AM
Original message
Taking Out the Trash: Cheney Directly Involved In Leak Scandal
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 11:35 AM by Pirate Smile
From Think Progress:


Taking Out the Trash: Cheney Directly Involved In Leak Scandal

In today's New York Times an anonymous source reveals that Cheney was directly involved in the strategy to discredit former ambassador Joe Wilson:

A lawyer who knows Mr. Libby's account said the administration efforts to limit the damage from Mr. Wilson's criticism extended as high as Mr. Cheney. This lawyer and others who spoke about the case asked that they not be identified because of grand jury secrecy rules.

On July 12, 2003, four days after his initial conversation with Ms. Miller, Mr. Libby consulted with Mr. Cheney about how to handle inquiries from journalists about the vice president's role in sending Mr. Wilson to Africa in early 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq was trying acquire nuclear material there for its weapons program, the person said.

This is an effort by the White House to reveal more details about Cheney's role on their own terms. The information was leaked to the New York Times on Saturday, the day when the fewest number of people read the paper. Also, it is presented in a way that makes Cheney's involvement sound innocuous as possible.

Now, when more details about Cheney's involvement are released by the special prosecutor or another source, the administration can dismiss it as "old news." Remember, the first details about Karl Rove's role were released by his own lawyer.

Nevertheless, the fact that this scandal reaches all the way to the Vice President - at a minimum - is very big news.


http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/01/taking-out-the-trash/




Times Reporter Testifies to Jury in C.I.A. Leak Case

-snip-
A lawyer who knows Mr. Libby's account said the administration efforts to limit the damage from Mr. Wilson's criticism extended as high as Mr. Cheney.This lawyer and others who spoke about the case asked that they not be identified because of grand jury secrecy rules.

On July 12, 2003, four days after his initial conversation with Ms. Miller, Mr. Libby consulted with Mr. Cheney about how to handle inquiries from journalists about the vice president's role in sending Mr. Wilson to Africa in early 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq was trying acquire nuclear material there for its weapons program, the person said.

In that account, Mr. Cheney told Mr. Libby to direct reporters to a statement released the previous day by George J. Tenet, director of central intelligence. His statement said Mr. Wilson had been sent on the mission by C.I.A. counter-proliferation officers "on their own initiative."

-snip-
With no one outside the Justice Department sure of whether the special prosecutor running the inquiry, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, intends to indict anyone, Ms. Miller's grand jury appearance increased anxiety in the White House and throughout Republican circles about how the investigation might end.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/01/politics/01leak.html?ex=1285819200&en=d7891fa6eb556825&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yep
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 11:37 AM by seemslikeadream
He sure is








Sun Aug-08-04
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. but better yet...* would not be able to name delay and frist
as v.p.!!!!!!! the cards are falling the way i said they were..first take down Delay..then Frist..then Cheney and Rove...then * is all alone!!

then basically * is neutered!!!!!!!! and so is the PNAC

fly
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. You've forgotten about Boulton, Wolfozitz, Rummy, and Rice,
There's lots of neocons left to wreak havoc on the world. Don't underestimate them. They own the UN, the world bank, the middle east wars, and international diplomacy.

That's why the boy king appoints all of his friends to everything: So as not to run out of insulation from the ugly truth and it's consequences. There are hundreds of Brownie's out there, ready to roll until the 08 elections.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. It would be nice if they could hang Hastert with the Turkey stuff
Then who would they turn too?

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. There's a slow train
coming up around the bend.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. You don't need no ticket, you just thank the Lord


People get ready, there's a train a-coming.
You don't need no baggage, you just get on board.
All you need is faith to hear those diesels humming.
You don't need no ticket, you just thank the Lord.

People get ready for the train to Jordan,
picking up passengers from coast-to-coast.
Faith is key, open up the doors and board them.
There's hope for all among the loved the most.

But there ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
who would hurt all mankind to save his own.
Have pity on those whose choices grow thinner.
There's no hiding place from the kingdom's throne.

People get ready, there's a train a-coming.
You don't need no baggage, you just get on board.
All you need is faith to hear those diesels humming.
You don't need no ticket, you just thank the Lord, thank the Lord.

Curtis Mayfield



http://www.npr.org/news/specials/march40th/people.html
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
50. damn straight bro n/t
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
72. Without a doubt.
:hi:
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Who was it that has been saying that Fitz is hunting REALLY big game?
Oh, that would be ME!!!

Can you imagine how rapidly Lt. Chickenhawk will fall apart if both Rove AND Unka Dick are gone?

This could get VERY interesting....
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. he'll be left with "God is in The Constitution" Miss Karen Hughes
unless of course she's indicted too. . .
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Hughes can dress up Bush like putting lipstick on a pig
But it doesn't make the pig any less of a pig. Unlike Rove, she certainly can't spin her way out of a wet paper bag.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
54. She just might be indicted!
She was a member of the White House Iraq Group at the time and was called before the Grand Jury! And you know how loyal she is, there is no way she could tell the truth!
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blue agave Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. and his wife - Condasleazy eom
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Don't sweat
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:28 PM by longship
Condi could be a target as well.

Somebody around her was bad, really bad. Somebody told Libby, Rove, and others that Plame was a NOC. It might have been Condi herself. That's serious stuff. At a "time of war" it is doubly serious.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Sweet!
I have had the feeling that it's Cheney Fitz is closing in on.
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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've been impressed with Fitzgerald up to now
he runs such a tight ship and I am personally shocked that there have been no leaks out of this investigation. I hang my hopes for the future of this country on this guy.

http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/658010
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Right. All the leaks have come from the WH - purposefully, spinning
leaks. Fitzgerald is leak free - nobody knows what he really has up his sleeve.

A little clue on how big Fitzgerald's filings have been - just in case anyone missed it http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4936899



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merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. While I have my fingers crossed about indictments being handed down
stemming from this investigation I will applaud Patrick Fitzgerald for having the leakfreeist GJ investigation at the Fedreal level in my lifetime and I lived through Watergate
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. Heres a horrible thought
What if this is the plan all along to get Cheny to resign & replace him with who they want to run in 2008?.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Horrible and possible...
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 12:07 PM by TwoSparkles
Cheney's role was to install and carry out the first stages of the PNAC agenda.

That's been done with the invasion of Iraq.

Now, they need a charismatic, popular, man-of-the-people candidate who can help them out of the ditch they've driven themselves into.

I would not be surprised if Cheney is out, and a more moderate, popular Republican is put in the veep slot.

Cheney has had health problems lately, and those problems can be used to further excuse him stepping down.

Also---if this has been the plan all along--it would certainly explain all of the sucking up McCain has been doing since the election. Maybe they're thinking of installing McCain as veep?

Who knows with these evil, warmongering bastages.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Rudy Giuliani
would get the nod before McCain... Rudy has gotten the stamp of approval from the religious right (google Pat Robertson Rudy Giuliani)

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Bush hates Rudi
But how apropos that Cheney of late has been weak in the knees....
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. True: B** can't puppet Guliani.
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Another possible:
(and a gruesome thought this is) -- Mitt Romney?
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. I don't agree; I don't think Rudy can pass the smell test
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 03:45 PM by ThruTheLookingGlass
to run for national office. He likely has a closet full of skeletons, both political and personal. That was quite the ugly divorce he had, among other things.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. still gonna hurt bush and repugs. people are really really having
a tough time always making excuses for these people. the bottom line for these people, the repug, they dont believe in making excuses. and for five years they have had to do it time and again for bushco. just really sticking in craw.

and have other things coming up again too. like the propaganda commercial. criminal.

nah, for 2008 or anything, this isnt good for bush

and delay
and frist

nope
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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Agreed -- and AP agrees as well:
If Fitzgerald seeks indictments against anyone, the ensuing prosecution would have as its backdrop one of the Bush administration’s biggest political problems — its failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the main justification used by the president for going to war.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9535787/

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In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. That is a horrible thought!
When will this nightmare end!
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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Chronology in the NYT: Fleischer as an obvious suspect
They are not spelling it out in a straightforward way, but their chronology strongly implies that one of the two "senior officials" for Novak was Fleischer, since it's so easy to put two and two together in the following thread:

JULY 7, 2003

The president, Mr. Powell and Mr. Fleischer depart for Africa. The State Department memorandum on the Wilson matter is faxed in-flight to Mr. Powell.

JULY 7, 2003

Phone logs belonging to Mr. Fleischer indicate that he received a call from Robert D. Novak, the syndicated columnist.

JULY 9, 2003

Mr. Rove talks with Mr. Novak. According to a person briefed on the case, Mr. Rove said the columnist informed him that Mr. Wilson's wife worked for the C.I.A. and had a role in arranging the trip to Niger.

JULY 14, 2003

A column by Mr. Novak reveals that Mr. Wilson's wife, referred to as Valerie Plame, works for the C.I.A. as "an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction," citing "two senior administration officials."

JULY 15, 2003

Scott McClellan replaces Mr. Fleischer as White House press secretary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/30/politics/30cnd-chron.html

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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. I hear ya, but Fleicher isn't an official, is he?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't consider Fleicher, Rove, Burnett etc to be WH officials!

I always believed an official was "one who holds office".
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Of COURSE they are officials, they are APPOINTED by the Dunce
They get a federal paycheck, paid for by US, the taxpayers. Just as Condi, Rummy, Captain Kangaroo Bolton, the Supremes, et. al., are all officials. You don't have to be an ELECTED official to be an official in our federal government--in fact, most people are not elected--just the House, the Senate, and the Dunce with his running mate.

The appointed are far greater in number than the elected.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm wondering...
...if the WH understands that Cheney will be ruined by this.

It certainly would explain that Cheney has been practically AWOL in the last several weeks--practically invisible.

He pretty much disappeared for a while, then made a gratuitous trip to the South for a post-Katrina field trip. I remember noticing that Cheney looked like total shit, during the few times we did see him. He does not look well at all (stress?).

I'm wondering if Cheney's absence is an effort to minimize the damage done when he is outed. If he's not around and not in the public conscious as much--his resignation/scandals are less damaging to the administration as a whole.

Cheney has also been hospitalized a few times in the past several weeks. He was in the hospital a couple of months ago and recently he had surgery. Health problems can signal stress.



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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. and if the surgery was indeed elective, maybe, just maybe, the timing
was strategic so that he could resign because of the health problems occasioned by the complications from his surgery. That would also explain them buying a house in Virginia.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes, Bumblebee! The house in Virginia!
I never thought about that...but why was Cheney house shopping?

Why would the veep purchase a house unless he's planning on going somewhere?

Wow!! A big clue hiding in plain sight!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. ST MICHAELS, Maryland
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/04/AR2005090401391.html
Where the Rumsfelds Retreat, The Cheneys Soon Could Follow

By Dan Morse
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 5, 2005; Page B01

ST. MICHAELS, Md. -- They've grown used to having a secretary of defense in their midst -- the way his weekend estate is tucked behind a bend in the road, how he takes casual walks tailed by dark SUVs. Now, residents of this Eastern Shore retreat are preparing for someone even bigger to buy a house down the road: the vice president.

It isn't terribly convenient to Camp David, but a helo would make short work of the trip to either there or from the WH...

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Yeah, but he wasn't too comatose to order ground crews in Mississippi to
restore power to the Texas-to-northeast oil pipeline, instead of to the hospitals, one of which was already on generators. Nor was he too sick to crawl out of his rathole the moment Halliburton got the first billion dollar piece of the new cash cow (--with the Iraq war in disrepute and all). I smell Cheney blackmail of Bush Jr. He's surely got the goods on his puppet, in many different ways. Bush Jr. dangling out there on his own, during Katrina, apparently without his usual supports (getting caught on camera eating cake! I mean, come on. I was thinking he was even being set up, with that one); then he goes down to NO and tries to strong-arm Blanco to gain total WH control of LA and martial law. Desperate Bush Jr., trying to buy off Cheney? Meanwhile, Daddy Bush and Clinton come out and stand behind him (one of the weirdest bits). And Rove is AWOL for weeks (then later drops a newsturd about having kidney stones during Katrina). I think Treasongate pardons and blackmailing settlements were all being negotiated during Katrina. The WH seemed in disarray throughout. Factions developing? The indictable vs. the unindictable? Rove on strike til he got his pardon?

God these people are dirty! We've never seen anything like it, nowhere, no time. I was thinking of the pre-Great Depression Harding administration, the other day--massive scandals, major looting, era of the "Robber Barons"--but that was peanuts. PEANUTS!

I think both Cheney and Rove medical reports are false. They're out. Cheney probably had a pre-signed pardon from way back (signed by Bush Jr., with criminal indictments left blank, to be filled in later). Rove just got his pardon, by stranding his prodigy out that there in P.R.-land during the worst disaster in U.S. history (and also got put in charge of the Gulf coast booty). Both probably have their retirement deals from Halliburton, Bechtel, et al, all sewn up. Libby may do jail time, and either get his rewards later, or get Wellstoned.

The only question remaining is which War Democrat will Diebold and ES&S install in '08, to help the super-rich consolidate their gains, limit the scandals, get a military Draft, hang onto all those U.S. military bases in Iraq, engage in phony peace talks, run the breadlines here at home, and start taking the rap for all these financial and military disasters (--prep to installing Jeb in '12?).

Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor,' I say! Or kiss our democracy goodbye.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
64. That's really depressing....but
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 10:27 AM by KoKo01
the cynic in me says it's probably what will happen. It's Massive and has too much support ....all this corruption.

Most of us who were hopeful thought that signing petitions writing letters to FCC and supporting every resistence effort we could think of or that was available to us would WORK...We had hope that this was just some temporary maddness and that we had "help coming." Instead we are like the Katrina Disaster Victims....we thought the Cavalry was coming and it hasn't come...and we are on our own.

One has to fight to have some glimmer of hope that any of our work to expose these people will survive as a beginning for those left when the whole rotten thing finally collapses under it's own weight at some point in the future.

It's hard to be this cynical. It's hard to live with it. One has to find ways beyond being involved in politics at the grassroots to see some hope. A break from the daily Bush/Corporate Media Propaganda. Finding small victories. I think the internet news media is the brightest light out there. That's where all my hope is, now. The future for any good is being written out here by folks like us...in the "Resistence."
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. Mr. Cheney is the White House and you nail him you nail Bush
Cheney is the terrifying one in the whitehouse. Greedy Greedy Greedy!!! and playing havoc with the FBI and CIA and Pentagon!!!

The powers to be have decided he needed to go last term but Cheney stayed too long!!! Its only fitting that the people who helped put him in try and destroy him... And they are going to do it!!! I see circles OOO

It looks like Scooter isn't going quietly!!!
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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Novak's "two officials" is obviously the key
and Fitz has had the info all along since Novak spilled the beans early. If one of them was Fleischer -- and that's what it looks like -- and the other was neither Rove nor Libby (since Rove supposedly learned from Novak, unless he is lying), is it possible that Novak who is no doubt close to Cheney got the confirmation from him?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I'm thinkingJudith is protecting Cheney also as well as Novak
Everything is connected and there are NO coincidences!!! OOO

The motive was there WMD was discovered Bogus!!! I wouldn't doubt Chalabi set Cheney and Bush up!!! Iran got their wish!!! Saddam gone and now Bush & Cheney maybe got rid of too... and the real kicker is Judith Miller helped!!!

You have to wonder if Judith Miller is a double agent also!!!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. It needs two more votes for Greatest Page.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm betting Bolton was in the middle too - he had opportunity, motive,
and it was very much in his vicious style.

More on all this plus more back story in this thread, including the articles posted in the replies. Don't miss the Seymour Hersh excerpt on Bolton.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4932994
thread title: Here are two reasons why I believe JUDITH MILLER WILL NOT GIVE THE TRUTH:

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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. my only pause here is that he never appeared in front of
the grand jury, and if he was the other source that Miller was protecting, which is almost a certainty, given his visit to her jail, Fitz would have not agreed to limit the scope if he knew Bolton was involved -- unless he is saving that for a new grand jury.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It's usual for a grand jury target NOT to be called to testify at this
stage. I feel it's possible, and that Bolton's aide Fleitz may have been the conduit to him and the rest. Surely Fitz has checked out this possibiity. We'll have to wait and see what he found.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. If it was Cheney, then wouldn't * have known also?
For all *'s statements that he, more than anyone wanted to get to the bottom of this, and that anyone who was party to this leak would no longer work in his cabinet, it would stand to reason that * knew, and the WH cabal was working on a way to get the heat off of them. Maybe that's why it took so long for ASSCrack to recuse himself, for all the BS toward Wilson, the BS ConfusionSpin re: Novak, Scooter, Rove nad all other MSM reporters involved.

Should the grand jury file indictments on Cheney and/or others, and stating that the IIPA law was breached/broken by these people, it is the ONLY statute that allows imprisonment of the CIC...and that would be * :evilgrin:

:::fingers crossed....Hopin'!::::
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. i heard way back when, and dont know source, that bush was sittin
in the meeting. he knew.
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. Is it possible that there could be multiple indictments?
I don't know...just wondering.

Libby, Cheney, Rove, Fleischer, Ashcroft -- who knows how many others.

I'm also trying to prepare myself for the possibility that there could be no indictments, although that seems less likely given the lengths to which Fitzgerald has already gone.

I want to dream big - multiple indictments with multiple charges. Let's see...conspiracy, obstruction of justice, perjury, theft of government records or information for non-governmental purposes, 1982 intelligence identities act, treason!
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
56. If you include conspirators, there could be a lot of indictments.
Fitzgerald probably has enough to indict the entire White House Iraq Group for consipracy. And here are the members:

* Karl Rove
* Karen Hughes
* Mary Matalin
* James R. Wilkinson
* Nicholas E. Calio
* Condoleezza Rice
* Stephen Hadley
* I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby

Rove and Scooter are already on the hook for sure. And Fitz sure was interested in the contents of Scooter's notes takes at WHIG meetings where Wilson was discussed.

Cheney either approved the Plame smear or knew about it and did nothing to stop it, he's as guilty as dog shit either way.

Bush... God only knows what Bush knew about this, but he was on AF1 when the Ford memo was being passed around, and you know how he likes dirty tricks. He could have known. Hell, it could have been his idea in the first place.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
37. All this talk about Cheney leaves one other key player off the game board
Rumsfeld.

He's in this somewhere, too. And as much as we all hate Cheney, Rumsfeld is equally deserving of that rare emotion.

Those two go waaaaaaaay back. Cheney, in fact, was once Rumsfeld's subordinate when they both worked in the Nixon adminstration. Poppy was there, too, for that matter.
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. Traitors, traitors, traitors! Every damn one of them
How much more of them can we take?!
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. C'mon I'm just a housewife in pajamas here
And I've been pretty certain for some time all roads lead to Cheney. My only questions are,does Fitzgerald have the goods to really nail someone that is the power behind the throne because it better be near perfect evidence, and does he have the guts to do it?

Waiting breathlessly and dusting and vacuuming like mad.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Me too!




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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #47
65. Thanks you two!
:D..... Great emoticoms, also.
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despairing optimist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. At this point, the trash will have legs and walk back in, and the new pope
will declare a miracle and beatify it. Where does salvation lie? Tell me that.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
49. Cheney will resign
I believe there will be indictments. Again conspiracy will be one of the crimes tying many of these traitorous criminals together.
However, I do expect Cheney to resign for "health reasons". Lower level officials will take the hits and anybody very close to Shrub will get pardons. I also don't expect any high profile Rethuglican with presidential ambitions for 2008 to get anywhere near this thing. I think a political nobody will be appointed VP in Cheney's place.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
51. Yep, this is what I call Rove's "backfire" methodology....
... of mitigating potential political wildfires by creating a controlled fire -- defining the issue and limiting the potential range of damage.

    Now, when more details about Cheney's involvement are released by the special prosecutor or another source, the administration can dismiss it as "old news." Remember, the first details about Karl Rove's role were released by his own lawyer.

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Domitan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. May not be effective
It's one thing to anticipate something and try to prepare others for that "something...and it's another thing to see it actually happen. The impact will definitely be greater against the cabal than hoped by Rove and company.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
53. CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY!
Yup! }( It closely weaves and winds around the BushCO/neoCON regime. They cannot escape their own web of deceit and conspiracy to hide that deceit.

:woohoo:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
55. Defend The Constitution Impeach Cheney First !
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. I do believe, you just found the boil demanding cleansing/treatment.
Cheney is the one who must face justice, FIRST. He is the head/heart-less beginning and end of the network of abusive power criminals.

Indeed.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. Yup !
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
57. kicking n/t
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
59. The problem is, indictments are just that.
Not necessarily convictions!
And we know who controls the SCOTUS.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Yet the Supreme Court
and for that matter all levels of appellate courts, only deal with proceedure. They is absolutely no reason to assume that Fitzgerald is going to make errors now, or those prosecuting when indictments are returned, in order to lay grounds for any appeal to the Supreme Court. Even on an issue such as the journalists' fight to avoid testifying, the appellate courts followed the law.

A realistic concern would be presidential pardons. But the idea that the Supreme Court will deny justice in this case is not cause for serious concern.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
60. I think we have to ask subtler questions, because I don't think we can
see much but the tip of the iceberg in Treasonate.

Why did the Bushites prime the public to expect a find of WMDs in Iraq, and set Judith Miller up--including giving her a special embed contract signed by Donald Rumsfeld--to make a highly visible show of hunting for the WMDs with U.S. troops--if they all knew there were no WMDs?

Were they just setting themselves up on purpose to be destroyed by public opinion, when no WMDs were found?

Why did they send Joseph Wilson to Niger to look into the Niger yellowcake allegations, when they all knew it was based on forgeries --B.S.?

WHY did they out Valerie Plame?

If their purpose was to punish her husband Wilson for his NYT article, why did they do TWO outings, the first of Plame (on 7/14/03), and then, six days later (7/22/03), the entire Brewster Jennings/CIA weapons monitoring program, putting all covert agents at great risk--and, not incidentally, compounding the risk of treason charges for many top Bushites?

Why did they go about it the way they did--contacting at least SIX reporters, circulating the Plame memo on AF-1, and putting almost all the top Bushites at great risk of treason charges?

Just to shut up a dissenting ex-diplomat?

Why, if Wilson's public dissent was such a shock--causing such conniption fits throughout the regime that they all broke the law and outed a CIA agent and an entire 20-year CIA project in a fit of pique--did the following take place (source: Joseph Wilson interview--Raw Story maybe? I can't recall.): He called her to get the regime to back off of the Niger allegation, and she replied, through intermediaries, that she wasn't interested in his information, but, if he was so concerned about the matter, WHY DIDN'T HE PUBLISH IT?

If they EXPECTED Wilson's article, why the rush to out Plame (in the week of 7/6/03 to 7/14/03)? Why so hurried? Why so panicky? Why involve SIX REPORTERS--all journalist witnesses to treason--in a crazy scattershot effort to find one who would be their patsy?

Why not find some other, slower, subtler, LESS WITNESSED way to punish Wilson?

Bush, Cheney, Libby, Rove, Powell, Rice, Bolton, Gonzales, and a half dozen others--all put at serious risk, to punish Joseph Wilson? For an opinion piece?

I think the answer to all these questions is that there was something far more serious at stake than a dissenting article--and that it was something UNEXPECTED, which made the outing of Valerie Plame and the disabling of the CIA weapons monitoring capability extremely urgent, and the real reason for the precipitous and foolishly hasty outings, and for the involvement of virtually the entire regime, may be found in this timeline:

Late May 2003: David Kelly, the Brits chief weapons expert, began whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC about the Brits' "sexed up" Iraq intel (two months after the invasion, which he had supported).

July 7, 2003: Kelly's bosses found out who the whistleblower was; he is interrogated at a "safe house," and Tony Blair is informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things." Not HAD said. COULD say. (Hutton report.)

July 14, 2003: Plame outed (by Novak).

July 18, 2003: Kelly found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances; his office and computers searched.

July 22, 2003: The second outing, of the entire Brewster Jennings operation (also by Novak).

(Note: Wilson published his article on July 6.)

There were two news reports (that I know of) about covert U.S. arms shipments into Iraq, in March '03 (in the Pakistani and Iranian press,) both of them suspected of being efforts to plant WMDs in Iraq, one report by an Iraq Governing Council member in Basra, the other by a Pentagon whistleblower who had heard debriefs on a covert arms movement that met with "friendly fire."

David Kelly was in Iraq in spring '03, and had friends there. He would likely have heard of these reports, and very possibly investigated them. He was a highly reputed scientist and an honest man, by all reports; and highly experienced as an Iraq weapons inspector. If he found out that the Bushites were trying to PLANT nukes or other WMDs in Iraq, it would surely have angered him, and could be what turned him around about Iraq (and into a whistleblower).

Are we to think that the Bush Cartel, after priming the public to expect WMDs, was just sitting around HOPING that Judith Miller might find some? Not likely.

And what would mobilize the entire Bush regime into highly risky action to shut down the CIA weapons monitors (all those covert eyes and ears around upon WMDs around the world)?

I don't think it was Wilson's July 6 publication. I think it was a July 7 phone call from Tony Blair to AF-1 warning the Bushites that they had been found out.

Whatever plot they had going to "get" the CIA (with all this Niger yellowcake nonsense, and their opportunistic use of Wilson) got accelerated, and made urgent, by this new and unexpected information that an insider Brit (a whistleblower) was onto their darkest secret-- that they had shipped nukes or other WMDs into Iraq to be "found" by Judith Miller, and that the plot had been foiled.

Considering what they did next--activating all top Bushites, contacting at least six reporters, and getting Plame outed within seven days--they probably found out that Valerie Plame knew about it, too (and the outing was meant to terrorize her into silence), and then, after Kelly was killed (highly probable), and his files were searched--four days later--they outed the entire CIA operation, to silence and punish them all. Possibly they found evidence that the CIA had foiled their dirty little plot, and wanted to get at the covert network more certainly than with the Plame outing. It may also be--considering Kelly's fate--that he participated in foiling their plot.

David Kelly seemed caught off guard by his bosses finding out that he was the BBC whistleblower (circa June '03). He heard it on the grapevine, and then wrote them a letter saying it was him, which was followed by his interrogation (and a circus of publicity in England during which they outed his name to the press). He promised them he wasn't going to give away any state secrets, and thought that was an end of it. He was looking forward to his daughter's wedding, and returning to Iraq. He did have forebodings, however. On the day he died, he wrote an email his old friend Judith Miller--who had used him as a major quoted source in her book on germ warfare--warning her of the "many dark actors playing games." (--emails later released by his family, not by Miller.)

"Protecting" her sources, indeed. Did she rat on him to his bosses? That's what I suspect (if not worse).

If this scenario is more or less correct, David Kelly may have played a key role in spoiling the greatest moment in her fake journalism career: "finding" the phony WMDs that her buds Cheney and Rumsfeld had planted in Iraq, and announcing to the world that the slaughter of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis, and the torture of thousands, was now "justified."

Whatever the truth of Treasongate, I think that the coincidicence of the Plame/Kelly dates is so provocative that the investigation into his death ought to be re-opened. He may be the person who gave our democracy a chance to be reborn, by preventing a phony Bush triumph in Iraq. A successful plant of WMDs would likely have sealed our fate as the subjects of tyranny. We may owe him a lot.



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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #60
67. A very interesting analysis...
Taking what you say a bit further, it explains why Blair seems to be so tied to Bush that they are virtually lock step. This has puzzled so many of us. Why this loyalty? They were both in on it, is the only possibility when one looks at how the evidence of the "missing WMD" played out with Kelly's "supposed suicide" and Kelly's ties to Miller.

The unraveling effort to plant the WMD when it was going to come out that there never had been any caused a massive rush to cover up at all costs.

What I wonder is the position of our Democrats who know this. Were they complicit? Part of it? Or, too afraid to speak out about it?

How will this all ever come out and the proper prosecutions ever take place without backup?


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #60
68. One other thought that would support your great analysis
is when did Bush admit that the "16 words" about Niger Yellowcake in his speech shouldn't have been there? I can't remember the timeline but it's the only thing besides Katrina that he's ever apologized for in his Presidency. I wonder if you know the date he admitted that it shouldn't have been in there? Because if that falls in the timeline then it says he knew the "game was up" on planting weapons and they would have to begin the disinformation campaign to the American people to say that the reason we invaded was to "bring Feedome & Democracy" to Iraq and not because of the non-existent WMD.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #60
69. Wednesday, July 23, 2003 Steven Hadley takes blame for "Dubious Claim.":
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 Posted: 3:34 PM EDT (1934 GMT)

Earlier Tuesday, Bush's No. 2 national security aide took partial responsibility for allowing the inclusion of the dubious claim in the State of the Union address.

The admission by Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley marked the first time the White House had taken any blame in the matter. An administration official told CNN that Hadley offered his resignation, but Bush didn't accept it.
CIA takes blame

Until now, the Bush administration has said it was the CIA that permitted the shaky intelligence to get into the speech, and CIA Director George Tenet has publicly taken full responsibility, although he reportedly told a Senate panel in a closed hearing that he never read the final draft of the speech before Bush delivered it.

Democrats seized on Tuesday's admission, with Howard Dean -- one of the leading Democratic presidential hopefuls -- calling on Hadley and any other administration officials involved in the flap to step down.

"It is unacceptable for anyone who misled the president on an issue as significant as a rationale for war to continue to retain a post in government," Dean said in a written statement.

Democratic National Committee spokesman Tony Welch suggested the president should be held responsible for the retracted claim.

"First they blamed the Brits. Then, CIA Director George Tenet walked the plank," Welch said. "Now, the Bush White House is dragging former Cheney aide and Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley forward to take the fall for the president's bogus claim in this year's State of the Union address."
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:QhQ-uIktHAYJ:www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/23/clinton.iraq.sotu/+Bush+apologizes+for+16+words+in+speech&hl=en
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. "E&P" "Prosecutor in Plame Case May Seek Conspiracy Charges."
Prosecutor in Plame Case May Seek Conspiracy Charges

By E&P Staff

Published: October 02, 2005 10:20 AM ET

NEW YORK Many observers of the unfolding Plame/CIA case lament the revelations in the federal grand jury probe but suggest it may all be in vain because the level of malfeasance may not produce a specific criminal charge. But that doesn't mean serious charges--including far-ranging ones, connecting the offices of Karl Rove and Vice President Dick Cheney--could not be brought, via the "conspiracy" route.

Prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald may announce his intentions as early as this week, now that Judith Miller has testified.

Speculation is rampant in Washington this weekend, with ABC's George Stephanopolous adding fuel to the fire Sunday morning, disclosing on the "This Week" program that "a source close to this told me this week that President Bush and Vice President Cheney were actually involved in some of these discussions" involving Valerie Plame.

In the Sunday article in The Washington Post, Jim VandeHei and Walter Pincus (who has himself testified in this case), sketch out what Fitzgerald may, in fact, be up to:


http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001220140
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. As I was hunting around for the date of Bush's apology for the Niger
forgery allegation, I came across this article by John Dean, of July 18, 2003 (the day Kelly's dead body was found near his home) about the totality of the lies in Bush's 2003 State of the Union address. It's breathtaking.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030718.html

And it reminds me of my feeling about Colin Powell's UN speech at the time. I just had this overwhelming gut feeling, listening to him on the radio (as I did) that it was a 100% pack of lies; that every word was false. With Bush, lying is a foregone conclusion; his personal stance in the world is so false that he is not capable of uttering the truth, ever. Not so with Powell. He suffers conflict about lying, or, at the very least, does not want to get caught; whereas Bush doesn't even know what lying is. So, my perception about Powell--that it was ALL lies--was surprising to me, and I distrusted the feeling, and went looking for the truth on WMDs, and came across the UN reports, Scott Ritter and other sources. (I may even have read this John Dean article during that period.)

Yup, Powell was full of it--every word was B.S. But, quite interestingly, he got fussy over the Niger claim--because, as John Dean politely puts its--he didn't think it was reliably sourced (not a shred of evidence to base the lie upon--and, now that I think of it, may have been wary of the Niger forgeries, or even cognizant of who had created them (Bushite skulldugs)).

The arc of the Iraq nuke lie was political, as I see it. It was a political plan to convict Iraq, in the realm of public opinion, of possessing and intending to use nukes, and (part 2 of the plot) to then produce the "evidence" in Iraq--with Judith Miller all set up to "get the scoop" (her reward for services rendered at the NYT)--and with the public all set up to expect such a "find" and to then, in retrospect, quell any doubts they may have had about this allegation, because, well, 'here's the yellowcake,' or 'here are the parts of an enrichment plant,' or, 'here are the detonators,' or whatever they were shipping into Iraq.

Can you imagine the war profiteering news monopoly circus that we would have had to endure at such a "find"? At that time, they were jumping at the least bit of suspicious looking dust in a barn, that Judith Miller or CenCom was pointing them at!

My point is that the Iraq nuke lie was not strategic or diplomatic, or even legal (as to convicting Saddam). It had nothing to do with the reality of the situation. It was Rovian, in that sense. It was just bullshit perpetrated on the American people. All of the allegations against Iraq were the same--total B.S.--but THIS ONE had been SET UP to be CONFIRMED.

THAT's why it had to go into the State of the Union address--despite Wilson's report and all the other potentially public evidence that it was a false claim. It had to be set up as a self-fulfilling prophecy, because plans were in motion to FULFILL it.

Powell is more of a strategic or diplomatic thinker. He discarded it because he didn't think it would wash in diplomatic circles, and/or didn't think it was that important to getting Saddam out and getting control of the Mideast oil fields. But the POLITICAL thinkers--the manipulators, the brainwashers of the media--knew how important it WOULD BE, when the planted nuke evidence was "found."

So that was the arc of this lie: from Italy and the forged documents to Judith Miller and the "found" nukes in Iraq.

The forgeries were so poor that I was thinking, at one point, that it was a plot to catch the CIA out somehow. You produce forgeries. You strongarm the CIA to defend the forgeries. When their fakeness is easily proven, you blame the CIA for incompetence and destroy their credibility. (???)

Another possibility: You get Wilson (or allow Wilson) to go check the allegation out. He comes back and says it's B.S. And you thus create a division within the CIA, between those committed to the truth and those committed to the Bush Cartel, and flush out the truthtellers, to be purged. (???)

Or, more subtle: You create a public dispute between the truthtellers in the CIA, who know that Iraq does not have nukes, and the Bushites who do scary soundbites about "mushroom clouds," and then produce the "evidence" that the scary soundbites are the truth--because you've got the TV cameras on the "found" yellowcake (or whatever)--and all the protestations, and doubts, and suspicions, and cautiousness of the CIA on the Iraq war looks lame, by comparison. They're ballless libs over there; won't even believe this 'hard evidence' before their very eyes that Saddam was 'a bad man' with 'evil plans,' and that killing 100,000 of his people, to stop this "mushroom cloud" over America, was 'fully' justified.

The CIA would have had to skulk away into its ballless lib cave. They could not have won that argument, forgeries or no forgeries.

I think this was probably the plan--the one that David Kelly threw a monkey wrench into, by stumbling upon (and perhaps helping to foil) part 2: the planting of the weapons.

Another thing Dean reminded me of, was that Bush relied on "British intelligence" for the nuke claim. (This confused Wilson for a while--he wasn't sure they were talking about the same Niger allegation that he had investigated and had found to be false.) And it was the nuke claims in the "sexed up" British intel that had particularly concerned David Kelly. He had tried (internally) to get their docs to be more accurate; had failed and was dissatisfied (and so were other scientists), but went along with it--didn't go public about it--until AFTER the invasion, during the period when the phony nukes (or other WMDs) would have been in route to Iraq, when covert agents (Plame's network?) may have detected them, and when their arrival on Iraqi soil and "discovery" (by Miller?) was foiled. Spring 2003.

By the end of May, Kelly had had it. He began whistleblowing to the BBC, saying that the Brits' claims about Iraq WMDs had been exaggerated. Why would he do this? Why would he seek to undermine political support for a military action that he had previously favored? (He wanted Saddam ousted.) It could have been the bloodiness of it all. That could have gotten to anyone. (He had friends in Iraq.) But it feels more like something happened; like he discovered something that turned him around. And a violation of his profession, his ethics as a scientists--PLANTING nukes (or other WMDS) in Iraq, the very thing that he had spent his life trying to eliminate--seems very plausible as the motive of his whistleblowing.

There is evidence that he tried to assure his bosses that he did not intend to reveal the worst. (He even partially recanted before a Parliamentary committee--under duress.) And he most certainly was forward-looking (not suicidal) at the time of his death; he thought the whole thing would blow over in a week or so. He may have felt that he had done his duty as a citizen and a scientist by alerting the public to the falsehoods, and didn't need to sacrifice his career (or put his life or family in danger) by telling all. But he was most certainly aware of the danger of what he knew (the "dark actors" email), and that knowledge was not what he HAD said (exaggerated intel--a controversy over words), but what he COULD say--the "uncomfortable things" that Blair was apprised of, a week before the Plame outing. He knew something MORE than he had already told the public.

One of the things they threatened him with was violation of the Official Secrets Act. Revealing that they had "sexed up" the intel, to make Saddam look as guilty as possible, just doesn't seem like much of a crime; it was widely suspected anyway, and is common in war. A plot to plant WMDs in Iraq for a phony "find," however, would fall into the category of a truly threatening state secret that must be covered up at any cost.

------

Re: Hadley falling on his sword. The date is interesting:

July 7, 2003: Blair calls the Bushites on AF-1 to warn them about Kelly (inspiring a flurry of activity to out Plame). (Presumed by me.)

July 14, 2003: Plame outed (and put at risk).

July 18, 2003: Kelly found dead; his office and computers searched.

July 22, 2003: Brewster Jennings outed, all projects disabled, all agents put at risk.

July 23, 2003: Hadley falls on his sword over the Niger allegation, which everybody admits was false at this point.

So, if they had it covered, as a clerical error, why did they out Plame, kill Kelly, and likely get some of Plame's covert agents killed by outing BJ?

They could just as well have THANKED Joseph Wilson (in some phony show of interest in the truth), and/or punished him in some less risky way. And if all Kelly knew about was "sexed up" intel, they could say, "Well, yeah, we weren't 100% sure, but we had to take the precautionary approach, given what was at risk--nukes over London, or New York--blah, blah, blah....".

Nope. Panic reigned. Something more here--something they risked their entire regime to cover up.

------

Yes, I think everybody on AF-1 over Africa, in mid-July 2003, including Bush, set eyes upon the Plame memo, and are indictable because of it--along with the operatives back in the U.S. who were carrying out the orders to "get her outed NOW!" (Libby, for instance.) I suspect that Cheney may be the only one who has the goods on Bush, though, and used it to blackmail Bush on Katrina (all that stuff about getting total WH control of LA and martial law, and withholding aid to extort that power from Blanco--was Bush trying to buy Cheney off). I also suspect that Rove was blackmailing Bush in another way--withholding his PR services during Katrina to get his presidential pardon signed. (Rove was AWOL during Katrina, and I'd bet money that his later story of being in the hospital with kidney stones during Katrina was a lie, to cover his rather obvious absence and the reason for it).

-------

As for the Democratic Party leadership, I'm still waiting for those S.O.B.s to fess up about Diebold and ES&S, and purge their ranks of the corruption wrought by the $4 billion electronic voting boondoggle--which caused them to remain silent while Bushite corporations took over the tabulation of our votes with SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code. I mean, come on. Was ever there a more absurd, or egregiously non-transparent, election SYSTEM? It was a fraud going in. And you had Democratic election officials all over the country who had signed contracts with these far rightwing Bushite corporations giving them "trade secret" rights over their formulae for recording and counting votes--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it. (This is NOT the case in other countries. It's ridiculous!)

I also think they (much of our Dem Party leadership) DIDN'T WANT a president who was beholden to the vast antiwar grass roots movement that actually ousted the Bush Cartel in 2004. So they didn't raise a word of objection to the fraudulent election system, or to its patently fraudulent result.

Looking back over all this, I think they knew damn well that the Iraq war was a fraud, and the election was a fraud. Some of our representatives might have been confused, ill informed, fooled or afraid, on the war as well as on the election system. Others are living a lie.

And the ones who sold out our right to vote--for lavish lobbying junkets at the Beverly Hilton, or future job offers in the electronic voting industry, or for the heady power of controlling the big business deals that our voting systems have become, or for the heady power of lording it over the voters with all the "professional" gobble-de-gook of electronic voting, ought to be horsewhipped out of the Democratic Party.

The War Democrats are another problem. They've been with us for decades, and we probably can't do anything about it--short of a major revolution (or disaster)--so steeped is this economy in the business of war. They CAN'T generate jobs, at this point, WITHOUT a huge military budget, and thus the temptation to fascists is always there, to use that military capability to destroy any country whose oil they want to steal, and make a lot of money doing it. Democrats are very corrupted by this, and also by the support they receive for backing rightwing Israeli policies (another sad story--Israel as a medieval military fortress), and I don't see any easy way out of it.

Those who say the country is being run by "the War Party" are essentially correct. And now, with Diebold and ES&S calling the shots, you can be sure that whoever they choose for our leaders will be beholden to THAT party, and not to the "voters."

My advice: Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor,' and start over!
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
62. The smell of indictments in the air...
Ah, it is good.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
63. I'm putting the finishing touches on my film "Rove's War"
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 10:19 AM by symbolman
right now, expect to ship in a few days, and I've spent many months researching for this, it weighs in as a 2 DVD set at 150 minutes of definitive info on the entire Plame case, A complete Chronology, forged documents, the meeting in Dec of 2001 with Leeder, and Italian SISME (CIA) leaders, forgers, etc - Suskind's info that Bush was pushing for war way way back in 1999, Bolton and Rummy's ROGUE Intel, all mixed down with the Downing Street Minutes, Ex CIA Hearings, etc, etc..

THis is RED MEAT for political junkies and it's all there, plus some hilarious additions of graphics, cartoons, Jon Stewart grilling folks, etc to keep it fun at the same time - anyone that's seen my flash work, imagine my best flash amplified about 100 times and you'll see what I've got coming out of the DVD burner in a few days.

Some here donated a long time ago (and I apologise for being REALLY sick for a good month) but this is for you, and it's rolling out to the mailroom very soon - even wrote and performed a satirical song (which I think I'm going to release at the same time on the web, maybe send it to Al Franken, my pal Mike Malloy would probably play it, maybe Randi too) called "Secret Agent Plame" based on the old classic "Secret Agent Man" for the credits..

Once I've shipped to everyone I promised this film to, I'm going to hit up Skinner and see if I can use it to fund raise here..

I can't stop watching it and I should be bored as hell with it after editing and researching for months on end, going through hundreds of hours of film - it's my best..

Just getting the word out, that it'll be available at Takebackthemedia.com after I make my customers happy :) Look for it should I get the nod from Skinner (who will of course receive a Comp Copy for keeping us all sane :) )

Get out your popcorn and fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride - these guys are like tapeworms, they'll insist on practically killing the HOST to get rid of them..
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
66. HMMM.... this news the day after Judy Miller testifies....
No wonder she chose jail....for eighty five days anyway..she couldn't hack the full time and now the fan is to be hit.
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