How many DU'ers own a firearm?

Post on this thread if you do, or if you don't, tell us why not.

MojoXN

used for hunting and for just plinking around.

I am a collector.

None are assualt weapons though.

I think you meant to say that you don't own a fully-automatic weapon.

MojoXN

I think I got lost in what you mean here.

I took "assault weapon" to fit the Brady bill definition:

A semi-auto that has a high capacity mag and/or various accessories.

MojoXN

Not with Agent Mike watching.

Evidently they are needed now more than ever. I've seen how the Feds just let poor people die and fend for themselves in NO, guess I can't rely on anyone but myself for protection.

This is true. VERY true, unfortunately.

MojoXN

Tell us why you don't. Let's compare notes, and see if we can arrive at a consensus.

MojoXN

I doubt it on this issue.

What I have or don't have is my business. It's a surprise.

I can't own one after that double murder I committed....

No, I'm just kidding...I live in New York City, and owning a firearm is difficult due to the laws. I'm not worried about my safety - I'm a young man and 6'5" so no one really bothers me. If I was to buy a gun it would probably be a rifle or shotgun. But if I was to use it, it would probably be to shoot at cans or something in the woods except there are no woods near me, I live in New York City. I eat meat, so there's no reason I wouldn't shoot a deer and eat its venison. But I haven't been camping in the woods since I left the Boy Scouts over a decade ago.

I am 100% for the second amendment though. With the Patriot Act and all that coming out, the idea of the police coming around and disarming all of the working people in the country, so that only the government had guns, that scenario scares me. Why are all the DLC people who are so pro big business always against working people being armed just as the police and army are?

a .22 rifle from my father but wouldn't begin to know how to use it.

Its a 22, I took it to a local gun shop last year, they cleaned it and oiled it. Wanted to buy it in fact.

It's stored in the ceiling tiles of my office in the house (I have small kids). It's been there for about 7 years since I got it. I'm not sure what compelled me to get it cleaned up but whatever. The gun is ready to roll.

I'll never use it I'm sure, but it is ostensibly a valuable thing, and I did love granddad and he inherited it from his granddad, and maybe one of my kids would want it in the future....

What the heck do I have to do to "preserve" this thing? I'm not even sure I have it "stored" properly (safely?) How often should it go to the shop to get maintained (if ever)?

I am in Illinois, do I have to register this thing, even if I never intend to fire it, and don't even own ammunition for it?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

And oil it well once a year or so with a good quality gun oil. That should be all that you need to do. As far as IL gun laws go, I'm not sure, but since it's a rifle, I doubt that you'd have to register it. Don't quote me on that, ask a lawyer or police officer.

MojoXN

Okay, got that covered.

I'll check with an officer then for the rest. Many thanks! It's been this nagging thought that only emerges when a thread like this comes up that I should nail down some information about this (in fact, I probably should have asked the gun shop owner but he was so pushy about wanting to buy the damn thing I just paid and left quickly.)

You don't have to take it apart to every single piece. But you need to be able to get oil onto the internal parts. Very light coat of oil. Store it in a plastic bag to help keep it dry. Since the stock is almost certainly wood, rub it with walnut oil, or linseed oil until the wood absorbs the oil. That will preserve the stock from drying and splitting.

Sounds like you may have a valuable piece.

I hadn't thought to mention disassembly. Silverhair has excellent advice.

MojoXN

Ack!

How/where do I find someone to teach me this?

Right now it's wrapped in an old sheet which I guess is probably not sufficient. So I'll get some plastic as well.

Yes, it does have a wooden "stock". Laughing here, I am so ignorant I didn't even know what that part was called. Thanks very much for the expertise!

Basic disassembly is usually pretty easy. Guns are designed (Normally) to be able to be rapidly taken apart into the major sub-assemblies for easy cleaning.

Yours, not being fired, will only rarely need any cleaning. But when they are fired the smoke (Even smokeless powder has some smoke.)gets in the gun, and them combines with moisture in the air to form acids that eat away at the gun. This does the greatest damage in the bore (That the name for the channel the bullet goes through as it goes down the barrel.)because that is where the most smoke is and that is where the metal needs to be the most accurate.

But since you are not firing it, you don't have the smoke residue problem.

But it's only a Class A misdemeanor. :)

State law does not require you to register the firearm, but local law may vary.

What you do need to do is get A FOID card, which you can find here:

http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/docdetails.cfm?DocID=38

it cost $5, plus a photo, and takes about a month to get, and must be renewed every 5 yrs.

If you do decide to sell the firearm, you must keep a record of the sale for 10 years.

So I need a card even though I don't ever intend to use the rifle?

My husband always wanted to use it to shoot the raccoons in the barn loft (which he never has) so maybe I'll make him get the FOID card. Does it matter that I can't prove the rifle's provenance? I don't want to get in trouble here by suddenly emerging out of the blue with it although I would think this situation is fairly common.

The gun shop owner took the rifle to a shooting range to make sure the gun was functional and operational (at my request) so I'm not too worried about it exploding.

The guy did give me some grief about transporting it without a "case". That was the only legality that he admonished me about. Again, he was so pushy I just thought he was trying to get me to sell it to him (by making it "hard"/illegal to get it back to the farm). He never mentioned a FOID card.

Thanks!

- this past year on his birthday. It's been handed down since the early 1900's. It's a small rifle - a "learner", so to speak. It's been oiled and kept in a dry place this many years but no way will I let him shoot it due to the age of the piece. We plan on getting a glass fronted display box so it can be displayed yet not be readily accessible.

I asked him to sell it shortly after we married and he did.

If I ever did, the only person I would use it on would be myself.

12 or 20, just out of sheer curiousity?

MojoXN

I've had it for a few years, and it's never let me down. I love the simplicity of a break-action shotgun. Not much to break on them...

MojoXN

and in preparation for anarchy, I am considering purchasing a .38 pistol. I will join a firearms club and practice so that I will be proficient. I will also get the permit to carry a concealed weapon...

but am considering purchasing one, possibly two. I will consider them my New World Order guns. When all order has ceased & anarchy reins, the guns will come out, but not till then. (except for gun class.)

However, I still have not taken a step to purchasing them. ;)

...for owning them, the fact that they're just plain fun to fire or collect has to come up, sooner or later.

Why? I have no need of one. I don't hunt, and I don't feel personally endangered enough to merit the extra protection. I do realize, though, that plenty of folks fit the above criteria and I support their right to own a firearm.

That said, several of my friends own guns and I do like to target shoot. If I would ever purchase a gun it would be for that reason.

Yo, Mojo. How're things over on yer side of West-By-God?

You a fellow mountaineer?

MojoXN

in Morgantown, but was born and raised in Elkins.

I was going to go to the WVU game, but couldn't find a ride. :(

Goddamn VT! And this is the last time WVU plays them for a looonnng time.

You know what they say, revenge is a dish best served cold!

MojoXN

Its sucks about the loss, but it was the only loss to VT in 2-3 years. We were due. They are the #3 team in the country and we really didn't stand a chance. I think there is a distinct lack of talent compared to last season as well as some personal issues with some of the new players, like Gwaltlney and his TO routine,for example.

Oh well, there's always hoops coming up.

Fuckin-A-right! WV hoops is going to be the shit this year! I'd LOVE to see a repeat of last year, except for the loss in the Elite Eight.

WVU final four, baby!

MojoXN

Because I have young onset parkinsons and please honsetly tell me that with the way my hand shakes that you want me to walk around armed. The safest place to stand is where I shoot :D

I guess I need to pull everything out of my four gun safes and get an accurate count.

for thirty years. Spent twenty years in Germany, military and living there after being retired, found to many good deals to pass up.

has stashed somewhere in the attic. I haven't fired a gun in 20 years and have no intention of ever shooting one again (not because I hate them, I'm just a REALLY lousy shot).

A thread like this makes one wonder.

You make no statement whether you own one or not.

You only ask those who don't have one to say why not, and you don't ask those who do have one to say why.

You write no essay, you quote no essay or news story, you just stir the pot.

I own 2 12 gauge shotguns, a 20 gauge, a .22 rifle, a 9mm carbine, a .30-06, and a Springfield Armory 1911 .45.

I own firearms because I enjoy shooting, for home protection, and becase it is my constitutional right to do so.

I posted this because I want to gauge DU's response, come up with some semi-accurate statistics on Democratic gun ownership, and to understand why those who choose not to own firearms do so. Also, I want to get a sampling of opinions as to why those who take an anti-gun stance feel the way that they do.

Satisfied?

MojoXN

you should ask. Not everyone who owns a gun buys into that right wing crap.

"come up with some semi-accurate statistics on Democratic gun ownership"
Is that like having inaccurate ones?

"right wing crap" remark?

I looked closely at the OP and found none.

What are you specifically criticizing?

He wanted to ask about who was "anti-gun"...which is a term usually applied to anyone who wants any part of common sense gun control, as about 70% of Americans do.

You might recall the imbecilic NRA enemies list of "anti gun" folks...which listed pretty much everyone in the country but the Aryan Nation.

John Kerry was a war hero and a hunter, but HE was "anti-gun" according to the hardcore loonies who throw around terms like "anti-gun".

I didn't even notice the phrase until I re-read the post. I just never occurred to me to extrapolate so much from it but it sounds as though both you and OP have history.

Unaware of that, I shall take my leave.

Logical conclusion, but wrong. I don't know who the hell Benchley is, and I'm sure that he or she doesn't know me.

Oh, and by anti-gun, I meant those who are opposed to ANY firearm ownership by private citizens. Just a clarification.

MojoXN

"by anti-gun, I meant those who are opposed to ANY firearm ownership by private citizens"
In that case, even Sarah Brady isn't anti-gun.

I didn't think I'd actually ever heard anyone say anything like that ever.

:shrug:

The entire RKBA movement is a right wing fraud from stem to stern, it's pushed by the scummiest politicans and writers on earth, and it's demonstrably a total failure as a public policy.

no argument here. The pathetic old poseur Heston clutching his musket and talking about his cold dead hands. Fuck him and his melodramatic lies.

And a dangerous one at that. What the hell do you need to keep LOADED guns around your house for, Moses? I doubt your security personnel or electronic security system are going to let intruders get into your house in the first place.

Why keep a loaded gun when you can keep ammo/loaded mag right next to it (provided that there are no kids in the house, of course)?

MojoXN

www.goodbyeguns.org

Mmmkay?

MojoXN

on the NRA's enemies list.

it sure sounded like a grudge or a button pushed or something.

Are there those who oppose all gun ownership by private citizens? I hear them mentioned by special interest groups like the NRA but have never actually met someone like that.

Yes, believe it or not, there are people who want to ban ALL private firearm ownership in the U.S.

MojoXN

Seems to me this group is proceeding in an honorable way to convince their fellow citizens of their cause.

I just wanted to show you that there ARE people, thousands at the very least, who DO want to ban ALL guns in the U.S.

It's not just a "myth" made up by the NRA.

MojoXN

Do you think those people are more likely Democrats? Or Republicans?

I personally think that the anti-gun zealots are idiots, and in my experience, most idiots are Republicans...

What do I think? Most likely they're Greens, or just plain ol' hippies.

Tell me, Mr. Benchley, what is an "assault weapon"?

MojoXN

Then you don't fucking need one.

Do YOU? Under the Brady bill, my 9mm carbine is considered an "assault weapon" because the magazine holds 12 rounds instead of 10. Does that make sense?

MojoXN

"Under the Brady bill"
The Brady LAW requires background checks on gun purchases (except where loopholes have been hammered in by the gun lobby, such as at gun shows). It also had a waiting period provision, which was wildly popular but struck down through legal technicalities (having nothing to do witht eh Secodn Amendment. Go figure)...It has nothing to do with assault weapons.

Nothing like an informed discussion (snicker)....

Oh, wait, no you don't.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3447/bradybill.html

Read it and THEN tell me that I'm wrong.

Dude, if you're going to make fun, at least know what you're talking about. Geez...

MojoXN

"Cinnamon's Rantings and Ravings ...This page has been relocated to "Barb's Cozy Corner" please visit me there."

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3447/

And here's the "menu page"

"This page is now "Barb's Conservative Menu Page" please follow the link to visit at my new and improved location. "

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3447/menu

Well, NOW I'm convinced that this gun rights stuff isn't just right wing loonies hidsing under a new sheet (snicker).

I COULD go get a link to the text directly from the House of Representatives or Senate, but it wouldn't do any good, obviously. Does it matter WHERE I found a copy of the full text? My point was that you were in error; the Brady bill did INDEED define "assault weapons", and restrict them.

MojoXN

"I COULD go get a link to the text directly from the House of Representatives or Senate"
Don't let me stop you.

"Does it matter WHERE I found a copy of the full text? "
Yup. And that's why you ended up with this freeper rubbish.

"the Brady bill did INDEED define "assault weapons""
Not even close to true.

"Since the implementation of the Brady Law in February 1994, almost a quarter-million prohibited purchasers have been stopped from buying handguns in gun stores, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. Additionally, a 1997 study by the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence demonstrated that states that began conducting background checks on purchasers when the Brady Act was implemented in 1994 are as much as 86% less likely to be sources of guns used in crimes in other states than they were before the checks were performed.
February 28, 1999 marks the five-year anniversary of the enactment of the Brady Law. The law, first introduced in 1987, took seven years to pass Congress. The sunset provisions eliminating the waiting period after five years in favor of the Instant Check were contained in a successful amendment sponsored by the National Rifle Association (NRA)."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.php?release=164

Nothing like an informed discussion (snicker)...

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

From your OWN FUCKING LINK: "The federal law banning the sale of semi-automatic assault weapons, known as the federal assault weapons ban, was passed as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994."

"What was that about an informed discussion?"
It was that it's alomst impossible to have one with someone so fucking stupid he can't tell one law from another....

You were right, and I was wrong.

I still disagree with many of your conclusions, but I must concede that I was in error. Again, my apologies.

MojoXN

"The Brady Law requires that when a federal firearms licensee (FFL) wants to sell a firearm, they must contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to ensure that the purchaser is not prohibited from possessing firearms. FFLs must comply with these laws whether they are selling firearms from a gun store or at a gun show.
The Brady Law, however, does not apply to the sale of firearms by non-licensees. Every year, there are thousands of gun sales without background checks by vendors claiming not to need a federal license because they are merely selling from their "personal collection" of guns.<2> Many of these sales take place at gun shows and the problem has become known as the "gun show loophole."
This loophole makes gun shows attractive sources of guns for criminals, terrorists, and other prohibited purchasers. They can easily avoid criminal background checks by shopping at gun shows where many sellers are willing to do business with no questions asked. Many unscrupulous gun dealers also exploit this loophole to operate full-fledged businesses without following federal gun laws. A full quarter to half of the vendors at most gun shows do not have licenses and are not required to do background checks."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=second

own guns.

I was being flippant. ESPECIALLY hippies in WV! ;)

MojoXN

hiring phone workers, randomly sampling 1000 people or so, compiling the data, analyzing it, etc...

I said "semi-accurate" because sooner or later, some smart ass would come along and point out that this isn't a "scientifcally conducted, valid poll".

Just my $.02

MojoXN

such as NORC...

http://www.futureofchildren.org/information2827/information_show.htm?doc_id=154514

Here's a discussion of one conducted by the DLC...the conclusions drawn from it are idiotic, but then that IS the DLC in a nutshell...you can download the pdf from the link there...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=29642

This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for.


"...idiotic, but then that IS the DLC in a nutshell..."

Ha! Now THAT's funny!
:rofl:

MojoXN

Who BUT the DLC would publish a paper arguing that since 80% of the country feel positive about "X", we should ignore them and try to pander to the ones who oppose "X"...

Everytime I run into anyone from the DLC or anyhting any of them say, I'm reminded of what Harry Truman once said: "Give the voters a choice between a Republican and a Democrat pretending to be a Republican, and they'll vote Republican every time."

widespread gun ownership (especially for 'protection,'rather than hunting for food) is going to be the slightest bit interested in what those who oppose it have to say....

You're only going to get a list of what types of guns people own.

Not true. I support the right of law-abiding citizens to own firearms, and I am VERY interested about what others think, especially those who oppose firearm ownership. I'm sure that I'm not the only one, either.

MojoXN

As long as people are psychologically wedded to guns as 'protection' there can be no really productive dialogue. Enjoy your target shooting. In my neighborhood, guns have mainly been used for murder or (in the case of the 14 year old across the street, suicide).

because that's what you hear about firearms in connection with. I'm quite certain that guns have been used for MANY other purposes in your neighborhood. Stopping a burglary robbery, or rape, for example. Or target shooting, unless you live in a very urban area.

I DO wed the notion of firearms with protection, and so do police officers. That's why they carry them.

MojoXN

so your purpose is to promote guns, pure and simple. Guns arent really all that useful in stopping robberies, which usually happen when the owner is not there. Dogs and alarm systems are better for that. If you can show me some stats that show guns are used to stop robbers just as much as they are used for murder and suicide...then you might have a point. I think that guns as 'protection' are vastly over-rated. The effect is mainly psychological, like storing water and food in case of Armageddon. Many people can't handle and should not own guns, even for self defense. It's just not a practical option and may lead to a false sense of security. Guns are for people who get a kick out of weapons. They don't work for the average person as protection.

I agree 100%. They're the people who've proven themselves to be criminals, or addicted to a mind-altering substance, or mentally defective or incompetant.

"Guns arent really all that useful in stopping robberies"

Bullshit. I still have my wallet, credit cards, pictures of loved ones, etc. because I had the temerity to pull my .45 out of my waistband instead of pulling out my wallet. I didn't fire, I didn't even have a round chambered, just seeing that I wasn't defenseless sent my would-be mugger running.

You're right about one thing, guns aren't all that effective at stopping BURGLARIES, but that's only because most houses are burgled when the occupants aren't home. As far as confrontational crime is concerned, firearms are VERY effective at making a criminal think twice, or failing that, stopping him/her before innocent people are victimized.

MojoXN

First of all, carrying a 45 in your waistband isn't the smartest thing you can do.

Second, producing a weapon without a chambered round on an armed robber isn't a good idea either. Unless, of course, if he/she was planning on using a knife or strong-arm in which case you would be better off paying attention to your surroundings and running (99% of the time). Less chance of shooting your balls off. Unless you are a quick-draw artist with a properly holstered weapon and a round chambered I just don't see how it's a good idea to try to thwart a robber armed with a hand-gun.

I live in a rough part of Chicago and give this a lot of thought. Regardless of the fact that it is a felony to carry (or own, which I do) a hand-gun in Chicago I just don't see it as a smart thing to do to try to thwart an armed robbery.

The weapon(s) I own and plan on owning are for when/if the shit ever hits the fan. It really hit home for me having a good friend stranded in a N.O. hotel and the only thing that stood between them and looters was an off-duty cop they were lucky enough to have protecting them and their drugs.....They were the group of doctors that set up an infirmary in the Ritz. They raided the Walgreen's to get medicine for the sick and injured. The cop had to keep looters at bay with a shot-gun while they raided the drug counter. My friend is the biggest pacifist you will ever meet but now he is pro-gun ownership.

Some guy in his Early 20's who was MUCH larger than me walked out of an alley and demanded my wallet. He was unarmed. I slowly reached for my back pocket, and pulled out my .45 instead. You should have seen the look on that guy's face! Now if he'd have had a gun of his own, he'd have been the proud owner of a battered Fossil wallet, and its contents. I might be foolhardy, but I ain't crazy!

I had a concealed belt holster on, it's not as if I had my gun just, well, hanging in my waistband or anything. And as for not having a round chambered, that was a goof on my part. I didn't even KNOW that I didn't have one locked and loaded until I got home. If I'd have needed to fire, I'd have been screwed. Lesson learned.

EDIT: Running? Me? Ha! I might be the slowest person in the world. I'd have gotten caught for sure, and who knows what might have happened?

MojoXN

qualified my statement to mean only the criminal or deranged cannot use guns. That is not what I mean at all.

I said the AVERAGE American cannot handle a gun effectively. I estimate that average at about 3/4 of the population--ie. those who are not able to use guns in a practical way for protection. Only about a quarter of the country has the interest, training, hand-eye coordination, maturity, courage, dexterity, and all important, WILLINGNESS to use a lethal weapon. The evidence: in my community alone there have been many accidental gun deaths-- the usual hunters killing hunters but also others such as one (intelligent) university student showing his parents gun around to friends (fatal), murders within families or acquaintances, and 3 suicides by gun. Oh yeah one was a neighborhood robbery all right, but a child was killed. No, I don't think most people can use guns safely. It's not a practical solution.

Most of the people in this country who want to use guns have them. It's not a good idea to promote them as protection for all. I'm sure you are above average in the ability to handle a gun effectively--recognize that most of the population is not. Guns should be for sporting purposes only, NOT for protection.

Tell me this: What's your stance on gun control, by which I mean the legislation of the 1990's? Not so much background checks, or waiting period, but the "assault weapons" ban, and the high capacity magazine manufacturing prohibition. I'm quite curious.

MojoXN

background checks, waiting periods, closing loopholes at gun shows, etc. The assault weapons ban was appropriate. It is the job of the government to protect citizens from the proliferation of assault weapons. However the current government is in the business of promoting fear. People fall into the trap of wanting to arm themselves to the teeth thinking that they can protect themselves from whatever it is that they fear. It's not grounded in reality. Assault weapons (and high capacity magazines) are military-style weapons. There's no justification for them in a civilized urban environment whatsoever and you can't expect regular police to go up against them. Unless you're interested in living in Baghdad.

I'm not sure you see the future you are advocating.

--that the gun lobby includes some of the scummiest characters on earth (Sun Myung Moon owns gun factories; the guy who owns Glock is a neoNazi; the chairman of Smith & Wesson had to step down because it was revealed did time for armed robbery)

--that the gun rights movement is clearly right wing extremism and bigotry hiding under a new sheet...

--that the central tenets of the gun rights movement are all lies...

but support the right to ownership by law abiding citizens, as long as they don't infringe upon my right to feel secure. I do think unlawful use should be punished to the fullest extent the law allows, but if you want to hunt, shoot targets, and other legal activities, knock yourself out.

got rid of the heavy stuff when we left rural, mistake. much more necessary here in the burbs.

I have a GI 45 Champion model. Its a nice looking piece with few frills, just nostalgia.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-mc.shtml

I love it. I'm thinking about getting a Glock 30 or 36 as my new CCW piece. I like the GI's a lot better, but they're too damn big for CCW. They sure do shoot better, though.

MojoXN

I'd carry one even with the weight issue, but they do get heavy after a while. I have 3, plus my .22s

You lucky bastard! :) I had to save for MONTHS to buy my Micro. Weight and capacity are my only issues, but even so, ain't they pretty machines? A finely crafted 1911 is a beautiful thing. American ingenuity at its finest.

MojoXN

:D

a couple of pistols. I hunt. I've had guns all my life. Weapons training began when I was 4 or 5 years old. I view them as dangerous tools, like an ax or chainsaw (both of which I have also always owned).

I own a .22 rifle, a gift from my mother that she inherited from her mother, who inherited it from my grandfather. This is an heirloom gun. It still works fine, but the only time that its been fired for about a decade is when I had a gunsmith clean it and check it, including test firing this summer.

I also own a .243 deer rifle that I brought from someone who had advertised it for sale because he needed the money. I believe this one works too, although I've never fired it.

I'm thinking of picking up an AR-15. It will depend on how much ant-gay legislation is passed and how much further the christian fuck-tards tighten their stranglehold on this country.

one .270 Winchester rifle and what is know a "street-sweeper" for home protection. I've never fired either of them other than on a range and hope I never have to. The street-sweeper is no longer in production so there aren't a lot of them around. I bought it a long time ago when I was young and impetuous and could sell it today for probably 10X what I paid for it, but for home protection it can't be beat. There are no children in my home and they are always unloaded.

rifles, and lock-action cowboy-killer for shooting fun stuff for cheap.

And you know what? I've never shot a living animal.

Peace

Anyway, no need, don't think I'd like hunting, feel pretty safe where I live.

I'm glad that not only Republicans have them, though.

Shotgun, .38 revolver, and a .50 smoothbore black-powder flintlock muzzleloader I made from a kit, and which even works sometimes!

.50 cal. muzzleloaders. Are they really that bad a kit or did you make a few mistakes? Seriously, I'd like to know. :shrug:

Were I better at it, likely the gun would fire more reliably.

However; Flintlocks were unreliable at best!

The phrase "flash in the pan" comes from flintlocks, matchlocks and wheellock weapons where it was common for the primer in the pan to go off without the flame propagating through the touchhole to set off the payload charge.

Also the phase "keep your powder dry".

There are right wing loonies who regularly troll over here on the issue...

I got rid of mine the day after Columbine. But even before that I was disgusted by the RKBA movement's lies and horseshit.

I hadn't expected that!

What sort was it, if I may ask?

:think:

And what the hell does it matter what kind it was?

... in the broader story of how you arrived at your beliefs about guns and gun control.

Columbine was just the final straw...

So it was more of a gradual shift in your attitude toward guns that eventually reached a tipping point of sorts?

I can respect that. I was just kind of surprised that you had ever been a gun owner, given what I know of your present views.

and reading the sort of crap that passed muster in that world that did it, mostly.

And everything I've seen since from those beating their meat over guns in public has only made me have LESS respect for "gun rights."

Why? Were you afraid you might shoot up a school? Lies and horse shit seems to be prevalent on both sides of the issue.

And if Columbine didn't show you why guns are a bad idea, I doubt any fucking thing will....

But I've yet to see any lies on the gun control side, and plenty amongst the RKBA loonies.

Does the Second Amendment grant an individual right to own guns?
No, pretty much every court that ever ruled on the issue, the ACLU and the Founding Fathers themselves all agreed that the Second Amendment refers to state-regulated militias of the sort that have evolved into the Nationla Guard.

Do more guns mean less crime?
No, that's a deliberate fraud perpetrated by a racist crackpot funded by the gun lobby.

Anyone who leaves guns and ammo unlocked around children is unfit to own guns. There are some basic rules and responsibilities to owning firearms. The first is always assume that every gun is loaded. An important one is to make sure that your firearms are locked, or otherwise stored safely away from those who should not have access to them. The parents of Harris and/or Klebold are parially responsible for the tragedy at Columbine, but not simply because they owned guns; rather, because they weren't responsible about owning them.

MojoXN

and that some people will tolerate any sort of outrage because they have a gun fetish.

Either that or they're willing to put a cheesy hobby above the good of the country.

The parents of Harris and Klebold had no idea what their idiot sons were up to. Harris and Klebold did not steal guns from their parents and use them at the school. Harris and Klebold a classic example of pro abortion poster childs. And a classic example of why some people should not be allowed to be parents.

People should be prevented from having children so that guns aren't seen in a bad light....

two kids who for months was planning a massacre at their school, building bombs, buying guns and two sets of parents that were to busy with their social lives to realize what was going on under their own roofs. I won't even bring up that the police were notified in advance of what was going on and didn't do a thing.

:)

I just like to be myself which is a honest straight forward guy that works 12 hours a day and pays his taxes.

"Harris and Klebold a classic example of pro abortion poster childs"...."I use to think that abortions would take care of the idiot problem but that doesn't seem to be working either."

if they were.

I just looked up the facts. Just the same, some irresponsible idiots gave firearms to those who weren't legally allowed to own them. Two sides of the same coin, in my opinion.

MojoXN

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who
are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such
laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the
assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent
homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater
confidence than an armed man."


THOMAS JEFFERSON

(FWIW)

Jefferson's been dead 200 years...you have no idea what he'd say about current events, nor does anyone else...

And pretty much every quote I've ever seen dredged up from old Tom by gun nuts has been a 100% LIE....

You did such a swell job on "facts" up above.

That comes from *gasp* a CONSERVATIVE website, why don't you try this?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d103:HR1025:

Straight from Uncle Sam. And no, I'm NOT going to sift through the whole thing just to show you what I've already shown you, do it yourself. At least it won't be coming from a conservative site or anything...

MojoXN

Try this one, and then apologize to the grownups like a good little boy...

"The Brady Handgun Control Act
Public Law 103-159
H.R. 1025 - 103rd Congress
AT THE FIRST SESSION Begun and held at the City of Washington on Tuesday, the fifth day of January, one thousand nine hundred and ninety-three
An Act
To provide for a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun, and for the establishment of a national instant criminal background check system to be contacted by firearms dealers before the transfer of any firearm. "

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/bills/blbradyact.htm

FUCK the Brady's because do nothing feel good laws are also wrong.

I would have to say there's no better argument FOR gun control than a look at the sort of crap going on unregulated now....

"EDINBURG - Rodolfo "Creeper" Medrano told police he paid $300 to illegally purchase assault weapons that fellow Tri-City Bombers later used to kill six men in Edinburg on Jan. 5, 2003.
Medrano, 25, told police in a recorded interview on Jan. 26, 2003, that he bought the weapons "under the table" at a McAllen gun show with the gang's money, which he, as the gang's treasurer, kept.
The day before the interview, police arrested Medrano in connection with the shooting deaths of six men, found in and around two small homes at 2915 E. Monte Cristo Rd. Medrano is the third man to stand trial for the slayings, and is charged with capital murder.
If convicted, Medrano faces the death penalty. Two other men, Juan Raul Navarro Ramirez and Humberto "Gallo" Garza, are already on death row for their participation in the murders."

http://www.csgv.org/news/headlines/monitor5_10_2005.cfm

owning guns, driving cars, using power tools, etc etc etc. Sorry Bench the world is full of dangerous tools that are being operated by total idiots. How do we control the idiot problem? Ban everything that cause harm? I don't think that will work. I use to think that abortions would take care of the idiot problem but that doesn't seem to be working either. I'm one of those people that think that people are getting to stupid to drive automobiles but that is a different topic.

"Sorry Bench the world is full of dangerous tools that are being operated by total idiots."
And that by you is an argument for gun ownership? Jeeze louise....

"I use to think that abortions would take care of the idiot problem but that doesn't seem to be working either."
Ahem....

Well said.

The wonder isn't that the RKBA movement is dishonest; the wonder is that it is so transparently so.

Take the "gay gunowners group," the Pink Pistols. They've got an enemies list that doesn't contain a single right wing bigot like Fred Phelps or James Dobson, but does include Barney Frank, the ACLU and Barbra Streisand.
They endorse candidates opposed to gay marriage. They tried to disrupt a peaceful gay pride parade in Ohio last year.
Their self-professed members pop up here with monotonous regularity to piss and moan that Democrats and liberals aren't respectful enougfh of their gun fetish, but never turn up on any gun wanker forum to complain about the open hate and bigotry often expressed there.
And they used to have a link on their front page to the right wing group that whistled them up, wihich in turn had an essay on its page about what a "good trick" they were on liberals.

And I don't doubt that it is, then the Pink Pistols are a bunch of fucking hypocrites. End of story.

MojoXN

if he could be in power of the U.S. there would be no such thing as a Democrat or Republican party.

It's like arguing with proponents of ID.

sigh.

Point out a lie, and a new one sprouts...

But, I'm having fun reading!

http://a2dems.net/top10myths.htm

Not lies, per se, but definitely distortions.

MojoXN

Interesting. Quick! Start disliking GWB!

MojoXN

And I already know why I detest pResident Fucko....

"Jeb Bush thanked the National Rifle Association Saturday for helping elect his brother president in 2000. An how did he thank them?
"Were it not for your active involvement, it's safe to say my brother would not be president of the United States."   
The governor went on by saying that he and his brother both support the NRA's contention that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which contains "the right to bear arms," is an individual right with few restrictions.
"The sound of our guns is the sound of freedom.""

http://www.lindqvist.com/index.php?ID=830

"The National Rifle Association's second-ranking officer boasted at a closed meeting of NRA members earlier this year that if Republican nominee George W. Bush wins in November, "we'll have . . . a president where we work out of their office."
First Vice President Kayne Robinson, who is in line to succeed NRA President Charlton Heston, added that the NRA enjoys "unbelievably friendly relations" with the Texas governor. Robinson, who is also chairman of the Iowa Republican Party, made the comments Feb. 17 before 300 members in Los Angeles. He also described 2000 as "a critical election" in which Bush's success would ensure "a Supreme Court that will back us to the hilt.""

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/050400-01.htm

"Mauser challenged Cheney to speak about extending the ban when the vice president delivered the convention's keynote address Saturday night ... Mauser entered the convention hall where the NRA was meeting, but was turned away by a security guard as several conventioneers applauded. A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush.""

http://www.the-hamster.com/mtype/archives/2004/04/columbine_dad_t.html

...that today is "opposite day," and the Second Amendment means the exact opposite of what it says. Right, BooBoo?

and don't really fool anyone.

I cant see how you could be more wrong.

38. Bullets are moldly thou.

Corroded or otherwise compromised ammunition is DANGEROUS. Do yourself a favor and get rid of them, buy a new box if you must.

MojoXN

I go out to practice I'm going to have the range get rid of them for me.

Thanks for the warning.

who kisses anyone to disarm them. Somehow, that is enough for me.

I vicariously own a nuclear arsenal of several thousand warheads, and
a huge fleet of ships and aircraft. These i use to vicariously
threaten all nations on the earth as i set about selling weapons
to various terrorists, vicariously through my civil servants at the
pentagon that work for a citizen.

Its a bummer i can't go out an pop off a few rounds of tactical nukes
at the old range from my vicarious arsenal, but i know that the boys
in uniform are doing it all for us citizens, because they are servants
of truth.

Yet rather, i am enslaved to the tyrranny of the "man" who threatens my
culture with nuclear weapons, by merely posessing them, and thought i
own no gun, am burdened with a million bullets.

but it is needed out at the farm when I am there all the time alone. The only one that has ever been fired is my little CO2 powered b-b gun that I target shoot with because I like to sometimes. I am a good shot so if we ever need to use the others I will hit what I aim at.

I also keep it in a safe, out-of-child-reach place (in case of visitors), and I don't tell people I have the gun. That's the kind of information that doesn't need to be in the realm of public knowledge.

God forbid I ever need to use it.

real nice 22lr bolt action..the rats never had a chance. had a shotgun never used it really didn`t need to.actually couldn`t afford to plink anything more the 22lrs. moved into town and don`t need a gun- i think my neighbors would get a tad upset..

it is better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it (pardons to Tarantino for stealing his line.)

is far more likely to kill or injure someone living there than any possible intruder. If you're a hunter, go ahead and have guns, by all means. If your thinking of home security, I'd think twice. If you're thinking of RW fascists breaking down you're door, remember Waco. They will always have you outguned, even if they have to bring in a tank.I also have a kind of karmic view. I've never had an intruder, and I wonder if owning a gun isn't asking for trouble. Now, if you have firm reasons to fear an intruder, like you're running from da mob or a stalker or something, then you might need a gun around. I support every Americans right to bear arms and arm bears, but I don't see a need for me and mine.

9mm

It's for hunting.

Lives saved in Rwanda (see Hotel Rwanda)
Civil Rights Movement
End of communism in Russia

Resorting to arms shows a lack of creativity, and even in personal situations, some quick thinking might do you more good.

In terms of fighting the government, they have a lot more, and they know where you live. Once you start shooting, you're dead.

Civil disobedience and influencing public opinion is harder to stop.

that is a good thing? I was in Rwanda during the spring of 95, I cried wishing that the victims of edge weapons would of had guns.

methods yielded some results.

Also, weren't the Tutsis the minority? If they were armed, the outcome might have been different, but the conflict, death, and chaos wouldn't have been avoided completely.

So I guess I'm more of a gun borrower than a gun owner...

:dunce:

Sold them all back when the kids were growing up, then didn't want one around while we were raising two teenage boys.

Now that they've grown up and moved out, we keep meaning to buy another one, but haven't gotten around to it yet. However, I did go out and get a nice, dangerously sharp Burmese dha so I could resume my tatami cutting activities (snicker-snack!). :)

I don't really know what to get, though. I don't really want a pistol. I'd prefer a nice semi-auto hunting-type rifle that takes a common ammo (preferably whatever ammo the military is using lately). Of course, then I'd have to find a rifle range, but since this is deer hunting country, there's bound to be one somewhere around here. I definitely don't want to spend $1,000 on a gun, either. :shrug:

Run ya about $400 or so. My brother has one, and they're mighty fine tools. BTW, .223 is the same caliber that the military uses.

MojoXN

...not to mention the fact that I like to cook and eat wild game. I'm not even gonna go into the lack of animal control staffing and the presence of rabies in wild animals.

Count me in as a "librul" that supports active gun ownership.


Laura

in Peak Oil and the impending economic collapse, social collapse and all that. So I am buying farmland and have started my gun collection (for hunting and defense). All the sources I asked recommended a good shotgun, a good semi-auto (AR 15), a good rifle with scope, a couple of good handguns..... So, I've started and just this week and purchased a 35 year old Remington 1100. Next will be a 22 rifle for extended target practice and training for myself and my son. Then come the others.

I never thought I would really need any guns. Wasn't really pro or con. But was a good shot in rifle club when I was a kid. But I intend for my family (my son and I) to have the best chance for survival in what believe are the tremendous upheavals coming our way. And having weapons for defense is simply good sense... along with all the other things needed (e.g., solar powered well pump, farm land, good non-hybrid seeds, some land to farm, an Ox, solar for power, passive solar for heat and cooling (along with a good wood heater), canning jars, etc. etc.

Everything and anything I can think of and can afford I will procure and learn how to use.

wish I still had my deer gun, 12 gauge, 18" barrel, rifle sights.
What I have are pretty useless for self defense (unless you are being attacked by clay pigeons or beer cans).

An M-14 and a Ruger 45. We had a little "range" set up on our land in VT. good times.

but I only use it for target shooting. :)

:7

MojoXN

and by "defending the borders" I mean keeping the cat from digging in the precious soil that is my potted Ficus. Other than that I feel the scope is too heavy and throws the balance off - plus it borders on being ostentatious. ;)

With the wild west "Stand your Ground" law. Practice your quick-draw, ya'll.

so I no longer own one.

You're not to blame for the break-in.

Still, I hope that if you decide to buy another gun, you'll look into getting a safe to keep it in. It would be terrible to find out that someone used your gun to commit a crime.

Now it's in the hands of a criminal. Hopefully it will not be used on another home break-in.

Also a couple bows. I used to hunt and fish a lot.

He owns them because he wants to be able to keep his family safe. I had a problem with it when we first got together, but over the course of the last few years, I have changed my position drastically. Wonder why??

Indeed. I have a couple of ideas... They start with "B" and end with "ush".

MojoXN

Because I'm only 18, live in a dorm most of the year and my parents are very opposed to guns.

If I were going to get one, it would probably be a collector's piece from WWI or WWII.

Dont really need a working shotgun in the city, its more a country item.

We have gone hunting quite a bit over the years and enjoy target shooting.

we do. One I've had it since I was 20, I'm an expert markswoman. I'm thinking of getting a shotgun---since Bush* has made this "Yeronyerownistan"

in fact I don't even know anyone who has a firearm besides friends who live on farms. I used to think it was more of a US thing but lately we have seen a rise in gun crimes in Toronto in particular. I do have a slingshot however for those pesky raccoons.

My reasons were described in the final paragraphs of part of a series I did a few years ago on the local citizens police academy, written after we went to the shooting range:


Going into Wednesday’s class, I’d wondered if my loathing for handguns might actually be a view through liberal-colored glasses, a cover for a deeper, baser desire for power. If so, would it come out while on the firing range? Would I be at Lock, Stock and Barrel on Thursday morning, ogling the Glocks and the Smith and Wessons?

No. I’m still absolutely certain that I will never own a firearm. But now, the reasoning isn’t cloaked in any gun-control debate.

I’ve felt the immense, seductive power of a handgun. I’ve watched highly trained police officers take the utmost care so that “safety first” is much more than a motto, and I’ve seen their hands shake - perhaps from the residual force of the weapons, perhaps from a natural uncertainty over the possibility of a mistake by a rookie shooter that could lead to disaster.

Disaster needs only one mistake. That’s more responsibility than I want.


I don't have a problem with gun ownership. I do have a problem with irresponsible gun ownership. To my way of thinking, responsible gun owners register their weapons and have permits for them as the law requires; keep them locked away when not in use or have trigger locks on them, or at the very least keep weapons and ammunition separated; and have taken firearms safety courses and update these as necessary.

As far as I'm concerned, you can have all the guns you want. Take them to a target range (I confess this is fun), hunt with them (but please eat what you kill, or give it to others to eat) and keep them for protection if you feel the need.

But if you point one at me or wave it around in a show of macho posturing, we've got a problem.

Or I do, anyway.

I disagree with one of your arguments. The registration issue. The 2nd Amendment was included in the bill of rights as a defense against government tyranny. If the government knows who has what, it's a MUCH simpler matter for govt. to try to round up firearms if they decide to ban them.

Aside from that, you and I are on the EXACT same page.

MojoXN

And while I do understand the "government tyranny" part of this argument (I used to think it couldn't happen; now I'm not so sure), my question in response is always, "Are you also afraid they'll take your cars?"

OTOH, I guess that's as conceivable as taking guns. Hell, they can take our homes if they can show "public need" for the land.

(Edit: typo.)

WOLVERINES!!!! and that's all I have to say about that.

:kick:

All were inherited.
An antique 38 revolver, an antique 22 boys rifle, an old 410 shot gun, a 12ga single barrel shot gun, and a 10ga single barrel shot gun.

Hold on to that one! They're hard to find, and thus quite valuable.

MojoXN

I don't. I have children in the home, but even if I didn't I would not own a gun.

maybe a goat...or a cute little deer sneaking a drink from a stream..or a bunny..that's it..I wanna shoot bunnies..and protect my family from them

A 12 and a 20.

Most inherited from stepfather who passed away but several purchased. I find guns are like tattoos- once you get one you want more. And I don't think that it has much to do with augmenting my penis size or fearing some coming civil war.

Firearms are a huge responsibility. They are devices made to contain a fairly large explosion and channel it all behind a little lead missile in hopes of hitting a target quite a ways away. I like shooting because it's difficult.

If I could afford a helicopter, I'd ditch my firearms in a second. I enjoy mastering difficult things and someting like a helicopter could keep me busy forever learning the intracasies of maneuvering it. But the thing I love most about firearms is that to effectively use them you have to overcome alot of primitive fear responses when using them (the report, specifically)- also, these things are more generally thought of as for protection or hunting. Those are very important tasks and knowing that if I had to I could use a firearm effectively to protect or feed my family is satisfying. It's nice to feel confident that, as the head of the household, I could both protect and feed my family. Some primitive satisfaction of filling that stereotypical male role.

FYI, I do not shoot any living thing (including trees, damnit!) that I ain't going to eat. I am disgusted at folks who shoot, say, birds, just to do it but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't bother me all that much if they did.

Go figure!

PB

I shoot trees all the time. One in particular. It's my shootin' tree. Just five more payments and it's mine! :)

MojoXN

and have no desire to. To be honest, guns frighten me.