OMG CHECK IT OUT: RNC CAN GO DOWN BECAUSE OF DELAY!!!

Check this out:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001956----000-.html

According to U.S. Code, Title 18, Section 1956, on MONEY LAUNDERING which DeLay was just charged with...



Later on, the section clarifies that breaking a states law counts... If DeLay is convicted, the FEDS HAVE TO GO AFTER THE RNC!!!!

This also means that DeLay has BROKEN FEDERAL LAWS.

Did I miss something here?

on edit: added part about DeLay breaking federal law.

Honestly it's my fantasy that if we are forced to abide by a two party system to someday see The Green Party and the Democratic Party as the two opposing parties with the Republican Party effectively wiped out and its members in dissaray as they desperately try to form the new "Know-Nothing" party for the 21st century.

although, best case scenario is that the banana republicans are thoroughly discredited and are replaced by genuine, old-fashioned conservatives in the eisenhower/rockefeller mold.

if the 2nd party is the Green party, that is.

now that's a racketeer influenced and corrupt organization if ever i saw one!

It appears somebody at the RNC had to know the money they recieved was illegal.

See the word knowing.

It would have to be proved first.

He broke the Federal Law and he worked with the RNC on this... otherwise, I doubt TWO DIFFERENT GRAND JURIES would have INDICTED him on THREE CHARGES.

It sounds like only Delay knew and he kept it that way.

for that same amount (dumb!) yes, I think the RNC knew exactly what was going on. They all work together. These people have no shame and no mercy. Think Whitewater.
DeLay and the RNC are linked in this latest scandal, and getting a taste of their own medicine is fine with me!

Welcome to DU.

certain people after receiving funds...yeah, they knew.

... will be taking a closer look at what exactly was the substance of the Congressional ethics inquiries. Part of the answer could already be public knowledge. If those congresspeople just gave him a slap on the wrist and sent back on him money laundering ways, well, this could get interesting!

Corporations wanted to give money for certain candidates but that is illegal so they gave it to Delay's PAC which Delay in turn gave to RNC which in turn gave it to the candidates the Corporations chose. The amount was 190,000 dollars and there are confirming e-mails that the money would end up in the proper candidates hands. RNC had to know the plan or the money would not have made it's way back to those individuals.

Sure wish Elliot Spitzer had standing here...

and there wouldn't be all this wishy washy speculations.

at the time the phrase was coined would, presumably, have been a whole lot slower - seeming almost bucolic by today's standards!

One thing I enjoyed about NYC is that no one has time for any type of non-sense. Everything moves at a rapid pace.

Sounds quintessentially American to Limey ears.

asking them to return the money they got from DeLay? I remember doing that after a mass email from one of the groups to which I belong. Can't remember who. But it was known then that something was amiss. All of us who wrote them (mine was Senselessbrenner at the time) had to have made them wonder. But then, that is not "knowing".

Of course, the charge had to come from somewhere.

flesh this out please!

kick :kick:

Down, Bush goes down, OMG....when do we light up the fires to cook pig? Throw a Party? OMG....Delay in chains...OMG....Kharma will get him......Life....OMG.....Life with Big Daddy in a cell w/o curtains.....OMG,,,,

we will prosecute him, not you.

How can you spend time in both a state and a fed pen?

i.e., let's worry about getting dual convictions in the first place; we'll be happy to later face the problem of dealing with the ramifications of actually winning dual convictions.

If a person is convicted of both federal and state offenses, they serve one sentence (usually the fed one) first, then upon release they begin serving the other.

g

you sure are busy tonight. :hi:

:rofl:

I got it too.

passion is another person's obsession eh?

some TV guest wa saying that stuff like thin goes on all the time. All the parties do it. The host responded, "That may be true, but DeLay and the RNC got caught!"

Now...if that's true at all, maybe we ought to think about just how badly we want to see the RNC go down. It might mean the DNC could accompany them!

If anyone, Dem, Repuke, Green, Libertarian, or whatever has committed a crime, they should be tried and punished.

Whether the president or someone with a campaign or party headquarters etc.

I've heard those same comments. They sound like spin to take some of the heat off of Repubs & DeLay (its no big deal - everyone does it).

If Dems were guilty of campaign money laundering, R's would have outed it a long time ago.

unless someone could show that this was a widespread practice at the rnc. but most likely, this would be essentially a one-time incident with one particular bad egg. tom delay might be finished, but the rnc will face no more than a fine and march on. more likely than not, some donor will cover it all in a single check.

Someone has to sign the checks...

And if they just received a check from TRMPAC for $190K and then turned around and gave the same amount to the Texas GOP... then... well... it's very difficult for them to explain they didn't know.

The first question to cross even a monkey's mind is why am I writing a check as a middle-man ... why isn't TRMPAC writing a check to Texas GOP... unless you DON'T WANT TO KNOW... and that would constitute a crime, at least 2 grand juries think so anyway.

How did he get chosen for the rnc post and what has he done before??

day for the country it would be to have the entire reThug party go up in flames...what a disgrace they are to our nation.
*sigh* I remember when America used to stand for good and great things (not like this country has always been perfect or anything; I am not that naive nor ignorant of history...) but it would be wonderful to see some semblance of REAL honor and dignity restored, not the hollow, shallow, words-only shit dished out by the unelected imbecile and his handlers...

And it might not be wishful thinking....

These corrupt and unethical people running the GOP have been "cooking" for a long time and it looks like their time may have come....

We know Elephant's the main course...

Oops...sorry...I'm one of those people that sneaks bites of my dessert before I've finished even the appetizer.....

:hi:

RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO!!!
:woohoo: :applause: :woohoo: :bounce: :toast:

charge. From reading this statute, Earle had to prove knowledge of the incident, which Delay seems not to be denying.

indict on conspiracy, and get him to say, "nothing illegal in giving money to RNC, and nothing illegal in RNC giving donations to state candidates....so that he is on record "knowing" about the transactions.

I can't wait for arraignment and trial. This is gonna get GOOOOOD.

:popcorn:

What did the RNC know and when did they know it?

The way I read the FED law, is that the RNC could be taken to Texas to face charges as well...

Could entire GOP Leadership go down over this...

Remember when Anderson went down because of Enron!

I don't see B*sh/Cheney or Pat Robertson being taken down.

And investigated for CRIMINAL activity, Dems may win majority by DEFAULT! Do I hear IMPEACHMENT blowing in the wind?!?!

:rofl:

It's only a matter of time before someone decides to use it against the RNC.

I mean, what really distinguishes them from the Mafia? Maybe just the gunning down part, quite literally. Or PowerPoint presentations.

had on today of Abromoff - he looked totally "mafia like" - lounging in his double breasted suit.

"X" when delay got money or bought some thing, or maybe it was that lobbyist?

against the RNC, (I seem to remember that guy, Ginsberg, the lawyer being involved) for funneling money to the Swift Boat Veterans? I never heard anymore about it. But this indictment reminded me of it.

Okay, just found this ~ not sure if it's 'laundering' or whether anything ever came of it. Btw, the Republicans also filed a similar complaint against the Kerry campaign:


CNN) -- The Kerry presidential campaign filed a complaint Friday with the Federal Election Commission, alleging that ads from an anti-Kerry veterans' group are inaccurate and "illegally coordinated" with Republicans and the Bush-Cheney campaign.

The complaint -- filed against Swift Boat Veterans for Truth -- states that "... there is overwhelming evidence that SBVT is coordinating its expenditures on advertising and other activities designed to influence the presidential election with the Bush-Cheney campaign."

A spokesman for the group, composed of Vietnam veterans who served on swift boats, said it had no response to the complaint. Members have previously denied coordinating with the Bush campaign.

.........

Congress banned the use of unregulated "soft money" by political parties and certain political groups in 2002, but that law did not address activity by 527s, named for a section of the federal tax code.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/20/kerry.swiftboat/

I wonder if the SBV got any money from any of Delay's funds?

Jon Stewart connected them together last year showing how they were connected to Bush. I tried to find the video but you can probably find it at the archives at http://www.onegoodmove.org

in that the swifties worked directly with the Bush campaign with various sources confirming the "higher-ups" were directly involved; whereas, the Republicans filed suit because they 'suspect' it but they as of now have no proof. More than likely, their case will be thrown out of court but the swifties will not.

Karl Rove involvement in the re-election campaign. Mr. Bush Jr. said that Mr. Rove engineered the election and the question is while being on the public payroll, how much did Mr. Rove work for the public vs the campaign (according to law, this must be documented).

<snip>
RALPH NADER: Well, we’re trying to find out whether Karl Rove, during the 2004 election, obeyed federal law and properly allocated the time he spent in the White House on political activity, the resources he spent in the White House on political activity from his taxpayer funded role as special assistant to the President, performing duties that are well defined. And we can't get an answer. We wrote her -- Harriet Miers, that is -- in March, asking for an allocation to be made public, if there was an allocation, and there was no answer. We wrote her on the 18th of July, and there was no answer. And today, I'm writing President Bush, asking that that allocation be made public and if there is no allocation, what is his explanation under federal law?

The performance by Harriet Miers on this matter is not trivial. Karl Rove was the architect of President Bush's re-election campaign. Those were the words that President Bush used on the celebration after the election last November. And here we have the counsel to the President, Harriet Miers, a nominee to the Supreme Court of the United States, refusing to answer a simple letter that basically says, “Did Karl Rove obey federal law 5-USC-7321 and have an accounting, separating his duties in the White House, in terms of time and resources? And if so, make it public.” No answer.
<end of snip>

link (scroll down)
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/04/144235#transcript

I am not a lawyer. Explain why you say they have to go after them.

of Money Laundering, conspiracy, organized crime, etc...

This is one of those laws the Feds are extremely anal about policing (because money laundering is the root of many other organized crimes... mob/mafia, drug trafficking, etc).

Not this statute in particular, but if the RNC could be nailed for their involvement. Nobody answered :(

Good job on the research.

Also, with just the conspiracy crime, there may not be a reason for Feds to chase him down... but with Money Laundering... it's one of those crimes the FBI likes to bring the HAMMER down on... :-D

I would ask for nothing more in this life and quietly retire to some little knoll, never to be heard from again!

Nominated!

I don't think it is very clear.

under Federal Law. Breaking a state law on Money Laundering breaks the Federal Law for an organization like the RNC (and individuals who work for the gov't like DeLay).

And given how the money was laundered, there is little chance of defense for the RNC to say they didn't KNOW how the money was being used (see earlier post of mine above).

The FBI would be obligated to investigate and the Justice Department would be obligated to bring charges against the RNC (and anyone else involved).

If DeLay is found guilty, it gets even more difficult for the RNC.

Individuals may go down, but the RNC, as an organization, will survive and go on.

The best we can hope for is to see some individuals go down. The RNC would then suffer reputationally and we might make some gains. But to think the RNC as an institution will go down, is just wishful thinking.

I ment hit the mat... knock-out punch... will they get back up? Probably. But it will be damaging to them in the near term, and with 2006 elections right around the corner...

Election code violations are not included among the activities, per 18 USC 1956(c)(7) A, B, C, D; unless you want to call it an "ongoing criminal activity" under (C); They are also not included among the laundry list of offenses under (D)

Sorry.

Money Launder is explicitly eliminated from subsection 1 because it is explicitly described under subsection 2. I should have quoted sub-section 2. Here it is:

Corporations donating to the RNC is not unlawful activity, and the money presumably came from regular commercial and non-illegal activity, although clearly the element of concealment is met.

There may be a federal case here, but federal money laundering ain't it. I know, as I just had a jury trial on a money laundering case, and my client couldn't be tied to any specified illegal acts...

I think maybe I'll contact the FBI and ask them to investigate the RNC in relation to DeLay's latest idictment of criminal money laundering.

rather than see the whole party go down?

I'm no attorney, but it seems to me that the crux of the case is that the money was sent to DC, and then returned to Texas. Technically, that's federal in and of itself, because it's an inter-state transaction, I would think.

Next, bigger question is how that money was sent between Texas and DC. Why? Because, if it was done electronically (vs. actually getting on a plane and carrying a check to DC), then I would think that it would open up a case for wire fraud.

Again, I'm certainly no expert, but that's what it looks like to me.


ETA: the catch is that if it is truly a federal matter, someone has to actually prosecute it. Prosecutors have "prosecutorial privelidge," meaning that if they don't think that they can win a case, they can decide not to prosecute it at all. So, just because federal laws were broken (if they actually were; again I'm no expert) doesn't necessarily mean that anything will actually come of it if it's a weak case.