Is Hillary our George W Bush?

OK, here is my theory:

Pretty much everyone on the left either hates or despises George W Bush. But he got elected in spite of our greatest efforts. Twice.

In 2008 Hillary Clinton may very well run and receive the Democratic Presidential nod. Keeping in mind that pretty much everyone on the right either hates or despises Hillary, will she get elected, just to spite them, in one of the greatest politcal ironies of our time?

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LOL! Straight talk is refreshing sometimes.

party? after how many campaigns? after how many club, caucus or district meetings?

You're calling me a Republican because I wouldn't vote for Hillary. That's funny, I don't want to vote for Hillary because of her support for many right-wing votes and such, and that makes me a Republican, and you'll vote for whoever's on the Democratic ticket, which somehow doesn't make you a party hack.

Nice one, kid.

what the fuck is at stake then you're a freeper.

That means that Greens arer freepers - LEFTY type freepers.

Shit is getting drastic. If she's our candidate and you don't vote for her then you're as bad as a republican freeper fuck.

That's my line in the sand. Volunteer please...I don't care if you breastfed Ethopian babies while protesting Iraq, WTO, and Roe v Wade @ the same time.

vote for Zell Miller if he were our candidate in 2004?

personally I am done with the DLC candidates, they are just kinder versions of the same corporatitst power structure and SHE IS DLC

I had almost the exact same exchange with someone else on a different thread...it all started because the OP asked if you would vote for someone in 2008 that voted for the war. I said no, and that it wouldn't change because I tried that in 2004 and look what it got me.

So basically the same thing happened...I was wrong for saying I wouldn't vote for that person. Somehow, my vote belongs to these people and if I don't vote or vote for someone else, I am stealing a vote.

Personally, I think it stems from two fractions that vote Dem. There is one fraction, that you and I are in, that vote based on ideals, and if the candidate doesn't have them, we are very reluctant to run. The second fraction has an allegiance to the party, is essentially a cheerleader, and cares more about the party being in power than the actual legislation and results of the party.

I made the mistake of voting against my ideals by voting for a pro war candidate in the last election, and all I got to show for it was another 4 years of *. I'm not doing it again...the pro war candidates had their chance and couldn't even beat an incompetent idiot!

but I hear you... damn I hear you... and the DLC has proven theirs is NOT a winning strategy.. I wonder what it will take for people to vote for the country and not the party.

You are saying Zell and Hillary are a like? Zell is a crazy fucked up individual.

But I would vote for Zell unfortunately. I'm sad to say it but yes to take the house I would.

I mean... come on.

choice), but what if we feel that Hillary isn't any DIFFERENT than the Freeper hacks, for the most part.
Sure, she may be pro-choice, but she's also pro-corporate agenda.

I dunno if voting for her would make me feel any better than pulling the lever for Guiliani if he's the candidate. Or Rice. It'd be just about the same.

Let's just work to get Clark the nomination so I don't have to worry about it.

but when she does she'll have my vote.

Roe is gone. Thoudands dead from FEMA fuck ups.

We need the HOUSE AND SENATE!

heh... only Republicans speak in absolutes.

She is not going to enjoy the support of the "intellectual left" and they are not freepers. That is a nice display of emotion, but you would have a hard time being more nonsensical than that. It sounds like a freeper.

But, DAMN - I hope it's not Hillary!!!!!!

They had a great program last night on the History Channel about "Secret Societies." The whole gist of the show was that it does not matter who we elect, Dem or Puke, if they belong to Bilderberg, NWO, or the Trilateral Commission they all have the same agenda. I had always thought it to be "conspiracy", but they presented it as fact on the program. When you think about it, it explains alot. Like for instance why our "leaders" are currently selling us out.

Hillary is alot of things but she certainly is not another GW Bush. Yes, she may be hated by the right, so was Bill, but I don't think she is a gurantee. Too many nuckleheads in this country would never vote for someone because it is a woman or a minority. But they would not hesitate to vote for a MAN who is intellectually their inferior, like Bush.

I continue to be amazed at the level of Clinton hated among Dems. No politician is going to be 100% of what we want. We don't even agree as a group on what we want. A politician can make one decision we disagree with and many on DU are threaten to write them off for life.

types. WTF is up with that.

My sense of it is twofold:

1) Fear of the right-wing. Oh no, they hate Hillary, we can't be seen with her. Adolescent fear of association really, like something out of junior high school.

2) Amenability to right-wing propaganda. They believe that Hillary is a 'shrill', 'cutthroat', self-absorbed political mercenary just out for her and Bill's personal interest. All of which are demonstrably the opposite of reality. But they repeat the right-wing memes like they came from Dennis Kucinich or John Edwards, instead of Ann Coulter and John Fund.

Their emotions are all so confused and hypocritical. If Hillary really were a right-wing sellout - that's the homegrown slam - then the right wing wouldn't hate her. The two main left charges against her are in direct contravention.

She is neither a sellout nor mercenary. She's as progressive as most here on this board, and smart enough to play the politics required, and tough enough to stand up against the fascista even when few come out to back her up.

Moderates will support her candidacy, and Democrats should look forward to it with relish. She's smart, she's tough, and she cares.

I just know she won't win in a general election. We have to flip a few red states (Diebold or not) and she can't do that.

It's quite simple, really.

and that is what will flip marginal states. Exactly as she has been positioning herself. Simple politics, really.

Wes Clark isn't a viable candidate for 2008. I supported him from the start, long before he even decided to run, and throughout the primaries until he stepped down, at which time I wholeheartedly switched my support to John Kerry. I still love Wes and will support him if he's our party's choice, but his Presidential opportunity is past without elective office experience.

It's Hillary's time now, and nothing could be better for the Democratic party or progressive values.

NONE of them will vote for her. They think she's a wild-eyed LIBRUL...

Seriously.

You can believe what you want about Wes. I, personally, plan to take the bull by the horns and make him the nominee because I want to win in 2008. That won't happen if we nominate Hillary.

Hell, even my New England liberal fiance and his California liberal mother agree with me.

Of course, they've both lived down in the South since the 1990s, so they "get it."

It's not that we're so backward down here (hell, I'm not), it's just that we're not as exposed to much. No variety in news. No variety in lifestyle. Pretty vanilla.

Glad I went with carmel (my fiance is Jewish - my ex-husband is Arabic). :)

I continue to be amazed at the level of Clinton hated among Dems. No politician is going to be 100% of what we want. We don't even agree as a group on what we want. A politician can make one decision we disagree with and many on DU are threaten to write them off for life.

Particularly as Bill is one of the most knowledgeable, truly informed presidents we ever had. Not a Rhodes Scholar for nothing.He helped pull the economy out of the shitter into a surplus (which GB has turned back into a massive deficit). I'd LOVE the Clintons back in the WH. They actually know how to handle international diplomacy because they know the issues and details of history. They know how to work with the opposition to get things done without conceding too much. Masters of diplomacy and bridging gaps. That's called smart in my book. I'm a huge fan. Why do people dislike them? Because of a blowjob? It's a mystery to me.

I rather risk losing a single presidential election in my personal fight to de-legitimize and stigmatize all uses of belligerent military force in the world. The sooner that politicians realize that to support American imperialism comes with a high political cost the sooner yankee can go home.

Everything people claim is progressive about Hillary can be found in better politicians save her gender in most cases. As long as we are running a Senator why not Boxer or Feingold?

and you'd really vote for Zell Miller? I could never do that, even to win control of Congress. Zell is a Brontosaurus, that is, the biggest DINO to ever roam the earth.

It's a real stretch to think that hate is something we should use to tie politicians from opposite party's together with. Especially an intelligent articulate woman and a dumbfuck idiot moron mans man.

We can start there.

But other than that I see very little similarity.

Now, I DO worry that the old Clinton Hate of old will be the baggage she brings to DC and if it is as divisive as the Bush Hate of the present, that isn't a good thing.

In my very humble opinion and memory, while a lot of people didn't like or respect Clinton, I never heard anything like the level of hate for the man that I hear here on DU. (I'm not criticizing that, just observing)

Even Clinton's enemies often admitted he was brilliant, friendly, etc., But Bush is considered right up there with the bigtime fascists. Could Hilary join him? It is a point to consider.

they definitely despise HC as much as we do GWB. That was the point of my post, but some people here clearly missed it. I do not consider the two persons to be morally, intellectually or politcally equivalent.

done. Hillary has been hated since her husband ran for President....and still is. And you can't compare Hillary to George on any level. He is beneath her.

just wondering out loud because both are in the House of Representitives.

She is not my pick to win the primaries (I like Clark) but if she is our nominee in 08' she will have my full support.

once again DIEBOLD

Maybe in another 8-16 years depending on her record.

MZr7

:popcorn: :popcorn:

He was not elected in 2000: SCOTUS COUP D'ETAT.

He was not elected in 2000: BLACKBOX COUP D'ETAT.

I realize I'm pointing out the obvious, but you need to straighten out that shit before we can even begin discussing Bush/Clinton parallels.

but I assume everyone on this board knows when you say Bush got elected you mean that he got "elected".

I won't be voting for her because I will have fled the country to Panama. Not kidding. We've bought property and contracted to build a house.

only in the arena of imperialism.

members demonizing others for not liking her, or for failing to tow the line.