Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

DU lawyers, I'm confused

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:47 PM
Original message
DU lawyers, I'm confused
Apparently back in 1989 Miers favored keeping the sodomy law against gays in Texas but felt that employment discrimination against gays was wrong. (according to a questionaire she filled out). My question is, is there any mainstream legal theory that supports a distinction like this? What legal standard would permit the forbidding of sodomy upon penalty of a felony conviction, but forbid employment discrimination against those who practiced sodomy? Wouldn't this be similar to keeping pot illegal but not letting employers fire those who have been convicted of smoking pot? I am really asking if there is some version of mainstream legal opinion that holds these views.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm Not a Lawyer
But it is just another example of the hypocricy the Repugs spout.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I wouldn't even call this hypocricy it just seems bizarre to me
I can't think of any coherent legal theory behind it, but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. They Interpret The Laws
any which way they want.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. The point everybody is missing is that the anti-sodomy laws applies
against heterosexuals as well as gays. It doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is. It applies.

Laws that discriminate against gays in employment occupy a whole different ground.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Im not a lawyer and can't help you,
but I have been having the same problems with her. I know she's an evangelical (scary). but the evangelicals have been against this nomination.

I don't know what to believe.

I have posted topics and replies on both sides. I don't know what to think about her nomination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think you mix religious beliefs and the law. & state vs. federal law
the employment of anyone was covered by some statutes since before the 80s, outlawing discrimination as to sex, race and religion. You have Nixon to thank for some of those.
those were federal laws and statutes.

Texas' prohibition against evil homosexuals enjoying their own company in the privacy of their own home, heck, that's a Texas issue, not some federal law.

This has nothing to do with legal standards. Remember, she was in the midst of being brainwashed and burned again. or something like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. federal law doesn't protect gays
and the questionaire specificly asked about a potential Dallas law in that regard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. true, but the question mixed both S&F, did it not?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think it mixed state and city
not state and federal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. okie dokie. my bad
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Simply put
The sodomy laws are criminal in nature. The employment laws are civil in nature. It is logically inconsistent, but legally consistent. Hope that helps.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. but wouldn't that pretty much means she would ban all discrimination
against felons? I would think the right wing would blow a boatload of gaskets over this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Not really
I see your conundrum. But really the sodomy laws are virtually never prosecuted. They apply equally to gays and straights. It's akin to prosecuting a person for adultery. This law is still on the books in most jurisdicitons. Also, a person can proclaim they are gay without having gay sex. I presume there are gay folks who abstain from sex (a;lthogh it would seem to take the fun out of being gay). In any event, one can support the sodomy laws on principle, yet also support equal opportunity based on the fact that a person commits sodomy. BTW, is sodomy a felony in your state? In mine it's a misdemeanor. Still makes absolutely no sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. In Texas it was
according to Lawerence. Incidently no state has such a law now thanks to the Lawerence case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Just a guess....federal law overrides state or local.
There is no federal law about sodomy but there is one about job discrimination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. not in regards to gays there isn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Because despite the similarity between the two cases is homosexuality,
the standard is not uniform. Rather these cases are going to be split into two separate issues: employment rights and sexuality. Someone like Miers would see an inviolate right to not allow an employer to fire an employee solely due to the employee's private lifestyle, yet allow private relations between two individuals of the same gender to be criminalized in order to protect society in some delusional grand gesture. The first case is to protect the individual, the second to protect society at large. (Again, I don't endorse this; I only try to explain.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
delhurgo Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. There's no logic behind it; its just politics.
It was hard especially then, and politically suicidal I would think, to say that you are for overturning sodomy laws. I would imagine that even democrats in Texas wouldn't have answered yes to that question. So i don't think you can tell much from that.

But being against discrimination was an easier position to take, although I'd say it did take some courage - which I think is a positive for her. I would say in '89 to take the position she did, in Texas, would at least make her a moderate.

Of course, this was 15 years ago so maybe her attitudes have changed since then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC