Ya know what the most beautiful thing about Plame indictments is?

The fact that "liberal witch hunt" and "partisan prosecution" won't work.

I think thats why this bunch is so on edge lately. They know they can't attack this messenger.

Get ready, Busheviks, Patrick Fitzgerald is coming, and hell's coming with him!

...even if it doesn't work, they'll try. hell, I find it hard to imagine much they WOULDN'T be willing to do to hold on to power...

The guy who took down the Gambino Crime Family, convicted the Blind Egyptian, took down George Ryan and is going after William Daley.

Yeah, they can really attack this guy.

Hell, if Patrick Fitzgerald ran for anything under any party, he'd have my vote. He is Mr. Clean.

He's been called an "out of control prosecutor" a few times now...

Of course, we just counter by playing Ken Mehlman singing his praises.

A prosecutor from whom the Rethugs can't get their desired outcome; a prosecutor who puts the law and justice before partisan tyranny.

The Republicans have said that more than a few times now, including the Wall Street Journal... so, it's not just the Limbaughs & Savages of the world.

He had already done good work in New York. Pete Fitzgerald (no relation) was looking for somebody to clean up Illinois politics and didn't give a damn wat the implications were. He found out about Fitz then asked Bush to appoint Fitz. Fitz went after George Ryan and devestated the Illinois Republicans, thus the IL GOP turned on Pete Fitzgerald who did not seek re-election (opening the seat for Obama).

Now Ashcroft had to recuse himself in the Plame affair, so Comey made the call on who to appoint and Fitzgerald, it so happens, is a good friend. So Comey appoints Fitzgerald. WHAM BAM, a guy with integrity starts investigating the slime.

hand washes hand thing like Brownie or Meirs? I'm so suspicious of the network and how they seem to grow from each others heads.They are so insidious = chop one off and it grows back. Thanks for the history, Walt.

and Bush received a personal request from the Republican Illinois Senator. That's how he got that position.

And Bush did not appoint this Special Counsel, nor did Ashcroft. Comey did, and Comey has since left the Justice Department.

I was thinking that you would say that the most beautiful thing was that they were an eternally barely-out-of-reach dream that gave so many hope in the face entrenched impotence and impending doom.

Shows ya what I know, I guess.

crooks, all at once! It's a lot nicer that way! A whole bunch of cases against individuals is sooo messy!

...who actually care if their government is treasonous.

And perhaps it all went nowhere, and no laws were broken.

I'm still not very sanguine about anyone getting nailed for outing a covert agent. That's a hard law to break, and an even harder charge to prove.

I'd hold up on the celebrations until something is made public.

In my thirty years in Washington, there's never been a tighter lid kept on any investigation.

My colleagues and I have been marvelling at this phenomenon, a first for us all. Not one iota of information has come out of Fitzgerald's office. Nothing.

So, whatever you're dreaming up might just be dreams. I'm too old to ever outguess a jury, a special investigator, or my kids.

Karl Rove signed this

"I have been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of United States criminal laws, including the provisions of Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, 952 and 1924, Title 18, United States Code, the provisions of Section 783(b), Title 50, United States Code, and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982."
(http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/2005/07/treasongate-controlling-law-big.html )

Read US Code Title 18 section 794 and tell me HOW Revealing the Identity of a Cover NOC Agent who was Investigating WMD Proliferations, would NOT violate this code?!?

That is all.

(Oh, PS: it can be punishable by Death.)

First, I am not a "Dude."

Next, if you think you know what you signed, you're sadly mistaken. Reading the law just means that you read the law. You haven't any idea of what lies beneath. That's why lawyers are lawyers and civilians are civilians.

1) Last I checked, most lawyers are civilians too.

2) Will you at least concede that PROVIDED that Rove signed the Non-Disclosure Agreement I mentioned, AND he leaked Plame's identity, THEN would be in violation of US Code Title 18 section 794? Can you tell me what lies beneath US Code Title 18 section 794? Since you're a lawyer? And I'm a "civilian"?

My larger point here is that I've heard no talk by any lawyer about 794 (or 793). Why not? I am genuinely asking this question, not meaning to be contentious.

3) Do you think there's any significance of the 8 redacted classified pages in Judge Tatel's ruling on compelling Cooper & Miller to testify?
from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/lawrence-odonnell/the-one-very-good-reason-_3769.html



Sounds pretty significant to me.

Let me educate you - the term "civilians," used by lawyers, refers to non-lawyers.

There. You're now twice as smart as you were a minute ago.

As for what you're harping on, I think you might go back and read what you just wrote - that you've heard "no talk by any lawyer."

Now, think about it. If you don't get it, I haven't the time to educate you.

That is all.

You got your term, we got ours.

Sort of sounds like we are not all in this together.

you sure do draw narrow lines.

Since when does everyone belong to everything together? If I'm not a physician, why would I know the language of physicians?

See?

You know better. We're all in this together - if we don't act like Democrats, that is.

Will Rogers said it best.

No, I don't get it. I'm not a lawyer. You are.

So, please, can you explain, in maybe a short sentence or two, why 793 and/or 794 do NOT apply in this case?

That's really all I'm asking.

I'm sorry I called you "dude".

These clowns have security clearances. So do I, and I have been made to read the rules as a condition of getting the clearance. What they have done, as has been published by their own stooge Novak, is very clearly and simply illegal and carries jail time. The only way they get away with it is if our courts are too corrupt to take care of it.

read the applicable law, and learn to behave better.

and I didn't attack you, I simply disagreed with your statement. If you look at the law, it's pretty straightforward. if you have a clearance and reveal classified information, that's illegal.

Rove et al have put out various weaselly statements about "not revealing her name" or "what was the intent" but those are smokescreens. There are actually two different rules they broke, one of which isn't specifically about revealing agents, just about classified information. The one about agents uses the word "identity" deliberately. Identity is revealed just as clearly by "Wilson's wife" as by "Valerie Plame." Intent doesn't enter into either situation. The closest thing to mental state is whether they knew the information was classified, for the "knowingly" part of the law. Agent identities are classified; everybody knows that. So no problem there. These idiots are going down.

means you fully understand it, you have made a grievous error.

The prosecution must prove that the defendant, if anyone is charged under this law, had full know that the operative he or she outed was covert. That is almost impossible to prove.

I don't think you understand what "knowingly" means. It's a vast concept, not easily discernible to the civiilan, so that would account for your confusion.

and perjury committed. I don't think this will only hinge on whether they can make the case for the intentional outing of the agent. Personally, I'm not sold 100% on Fitzgerald himself. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not going to assume he's the thick-skinned, incorruptible, and unreachable person celebrated here at DU. Like you, I'll wait to see how this plays out.

He's run an airtight investigation, which, in Washington, has always been considered impossible. Never seen anything like it.

But, about Fitzgerald, yeah, he is everything you're not convinced he is - and then some. He's really too good to be true, but the fact is that he's pure as the driven snow and utterly untouchable. Remarkable lawyer.

Remember that old Chinese curse: 'May you live in interesting times"? Well, I think we're getting that, except our people are still being murdered in Iraq.

leaks like a la Kenneth Starr

We have operatives everywhere and theyre doing well.

Nah, its just a matter of their crimes catching up with them. They always do.

thats the buzz. OMG This is gonna be humongous/

God knows 22 indictments are completely justified, but where did you get that figure?

Anyhoots, that's a rumor. No one really knows what is happening or what is going to happen. That's what makes this situation so fascinating and is creating so much buzz. Whatever Fitz does, it may be a complete surprise to all of us.

when I see it.

People have been putting too much stock into Plamegate, which isn't the biggest scandal that ever came down the pike.

Not even close.

It's bad in that it's a Nixonian-style revenge campaign, which conceivably could have put our national security at risk, but it's not the Grand Scandal of the 21st century many think it is.

Katrinagate is far, far, far worse than this, and yet Bush, Cheney, and all of the rest are still standing.