Why does the Free Masons have such a good rep in the U.S.?

I know in the recent Nicholas Cage movie, National Treasure, Masons played a role as benevolent treasure keepers. But, weren't the Masons a Christian group that terrorized and oppressed other groups?

The Masons actually played a prominent role in the American and French Revolutions.

You are probably right.

Formed around the time of the First Crusade (ca. 1100).

York Rite Masonry calls its highest degree Knight Templar, but no one knows whether the connection between Masons and Templars was actual, or philosophical, as the Masons are a secret society and the oldest tangible evidence for them dates back only to the 1400s.

The Knights Templars ceased to be after they were persecuted by the church for alleged satanic worship. They were a chivalrous religious order up until then. They had to go underground and reemerged as a charitable organization. Todays Freemasons.

As their highest order is called Knight Templar, and their rituals are based on Christian symbology.

The Masons have a ton of Egyptian, Babylonian and Sumerian symbology in their rituals.

I'm one of them!

;-)

My brothers and uncles are all freemasons and shriners and I don't ask many questions. Why the secrecy?

I want to add also that I have never seen Freemasons as anything other than a benevolent organization.

First of all it's symbolic. Some think that Freemasonry comes from the Craft Guilds of the middle ages. If one was admitted to a Craft Guild, they did so with an oath to never reveal the trade secrets of the Craft to any non-member. If that's the case, the secrecy is a holdover from the Guild system.

The 3 primary degrees of Masonry are symbolic of a man's progression through the Masonic Guild. The 3 degrees are called: Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft (i.e. Fellow of the Craft/Journeyman), and Master.

Another reason is for identification purposes. It helps you to be able to quickly identify who is a brother Mason. This comes in handy in a pinch as Masons make promises to help brother Masons in distress.

The identification aspect also possibly has its roots in something a bit more serious. There are some who also believe that the Knight Templars went underground and became the Freemasons. Pope Clement V had declared the Templars heretics in the 14th century. The first evidences of Freemasonry appear not long thereafter. If the Templars did in fact become the Freemasons, the secrecy was for their own physical safety.


Either way, the secrecy is a holdover from days gone by. In modern times, the reason that most Masons will not divulge the "secrets" of Masonry is because they've promised not too, and they'd feel like a bad person for breaking their word.

As for the secrets themselves, they really aren't anything extraordinary. And, in the age of the internet, they're nothing that couldn't be turned up by a google search.

I'm probably too damn broke to afford dues. There's a lodge right near where I live, I always want to knock on the door and be like "'scuse me, do you have any applications?" I love mythology.

At my lodge, the annual dues are about $60-$65, and you don't have to pay them until you have gotten your 3rd degree.

When you first join, there is a one time initiation fee of around $100.

If you really want to join, money is not an obstacle. I promise.

I'm not positive but I think a member of the lodge has to sponsor you but, if I remember correctly, should you not have a sponsor then the secretary of the lodge will arrange to have members meet with you and possibly get a sponsor that way.

I don't think money is a huge issue. My brother is extremely cash-strapped and manages to pay his dues. The only thing he says he can't afford right now are the dues at the shrine.

and growing power. Tortured them and forced them to confess to all sorts of 'satanic' activity and homosexuality and so forth.

My father was a lifelong Mason. For the last forty years of his life, he never put his nose in a church. When he died we honored him with a Masonic funeral. It was a very nice thing with no overt mention of religion. Many relatives are fundy radicals and were most uncomfortable with the proceedings. I explained to them later of my father's atheist beliefs. Whether they understood that or not, I do not know. But my father was very uncomfortable with religion but the contrary with the Masonic order.

Atheists were welcome, too? Cool.

Freemasonry accepts members from almost any religion, including Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and so forth. While atheists and agnostics are unreservedly accepted in Lodges working in the Continental tradition, most Masonic Lodges have required, since the early 19th century, that a candidate must profess a belief in a Supreme Being. But even there, one finds a high degree of non-dogmatism, and the phrase Supreme Being is often given a very broad interpretation, usually allowing Deism and often even allowing naturalistic views of "God/Nature" in the tradition of Spinoza and Goethe (himself a Freemason), or views of The Ultimate or Cosmic Oneness, such as found in some Eastern religions and in Western idealism (or for that matter, in modern cosmology). This leads some to suggest that even Anglo Freemasonry will, in practice, end up accepting certain kinds of atheists—those willing to adopt a certain brand of spiritual language. Such claims are difficult to evaluate, since many Anglo jurisdictions consider any further enquiry into a prospective member's religion, beyond the "Supreme Being" question, to be off limits. However, in some Anglo jurisdictions (mostly English-speaking), Freemasonry is actually less tolerant of naturalism than it was in the 18th century, and specific religious requirements with more theistic and orthodox overtones have been added since the early 19th century, including (mostly in North America) belief in the immortality of the soul. The Freemasonry that predominates in Scandinavia, known as the Swedish Rite, accepts only Christians.

Generally, to be a Freemason, one must:
be a man who comes of his own free will
believe in a Supreme Being, or, in some jurisdictions, a Creative Principle (unless joining a jurisdiction with no religious requirement, as in the Continental tradition),
be at least the minimum age (18–25 years depending on the jurisdiction),
be of sound mind, body and of good morals, and
be free (or "born free", i.e. not born a slave or bondsman).

he "free born" requirement is moot in modern Lodges; it remains for purely historical reasons. The "sound body" requirement is today generally taken to mean "physically capable of taking part in Lodge rituals", and most Lodges today are quite flexible when it comes to accommodating disabled candidates.

Supreme Being

God has three letters Ito has three letters.

If you think this is a conincidence I say to you sir "fool! thou hasdt not faith nor honor! I cast thee out!!"

:silly:

it all adds up.

But, he's always been a fundie, as others I know. One of their tenants is "Not to suffer a fool or an atheist".

On edit: He was also a 32nd Degree, and a State District Officer.

They were (are) actually open to any faith just so long as you carried some sort of faith in a supreme being, it didn't matter if you were Christian, Muslim, even Hindu or Buddhist.

Generally, to be a Freemason, one must:
be a man who comes of his own free will
believe in a Supreme Being, or, in some jurisdictions, a Creative Principle (unless joining a jurisdiction with no religious requirement, as in the Continental tradition),
be at least the minimum age (18–25 years depending on the jurisdiction),
be of sound mind, body and of good morals, and
be free (or "born free", i.e. not born a slave or bondsman).
The "free born" requirement is moot in modern Lodges; it remains for purely historical reasons. The "sound body" requirement is today generally taken to mean "physically capable of taking part in Lodge rituals", and most Lodges today are quite flexible when it comes to accommodating disabled candidates.

More about em here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_masons

was very historical and documented the Druid era. I could swear it was the Free Masons she said were evil.

showing their symbols to be Satanic.

Seemed about as credible as Clinton selling drugs, something a freeper lady I worked with tried to sell me on back when I was a vaguely Democrat sheeple. She had a video and everything.

As to Christians? The Masons are non-denominational.

Following a list of alleged comparisons to masons beliefs and christians beliefs, the summary states,

"As you can see, Masonry denies and contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture and numerous issues. Masonry also requires people to engage in activities which the Bible condemns. As a result, a Christian should not be a member of any secret society or organization that has any connection with Free Masonry."

http://www.gotquestions.org/free-masonry.html the usual we are going to heaven and you are not stuff.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/clark2008.htm

of the subsequent Presidents have been Free Masons. Various Masonic groups in Europe started sometime in the 17th Century as anti-monarchists across Europe, and were thus by necessity conspiratorial in design and method.

Today, have a huge membership in the US, and maintain some impressive temples that dot the landscape. They are deist, and were strongly anti-Communist. They don't seem to be particularly partisan in makeup or doctrine, any more so than the Moose Lodgers and the Rotarians. They're a fraternal organization whose members engage in charitable activities, socialize and do business with each other. They have a lot of secret ritual handshakes and flim-flam "esoteric" knowledge. Something about pyramids. Beyond that, I know very little.

Perhaps Masons and anti-Masons can tell you more.

derived from the Druids.

every year. They opened up the temple, which is old and huge, and I walked around for a while and looked at things.

There was an informational kiosk, and I could swear that one of the plaques on the wall said that Masons subscribe to Christian beliefs. My recollection of that could be faulty.

They don't seem to be Druids, most of whom I know are hippies. The Masons I've met appear to be mostly flag-pin wearing Protestants. No aspersions cast either way.

Is Rosslyn Chapel, which was constructed in the mid 1400s.

Its architecture also shows at least a tenuous connection between Freemasonry and Templarism.


http://www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk/

They started out during the crusades as a group of German knights that occupied Jersualem and called themselves the Hospitalers of St. John.

In the early 19th Century, they were kicked out of France by Napolean and took refuge in Russia, where reportedly they had a role in murdering the husband of Katherine the Great, who was Baltic Prussian, allowing her to take the throne. The deceased Czar was the last of the line of the Russian Romanovs, all those who followed were really Germans.

The Knights Templar in Russia formed the basis of the Czarist Okhrana (Palace Guard) and proceeded to police the Court in St. Petersburg, never allowing any Czar to rule for more than 30 years or to escape ties to Germany, which depended upon grain and timber from Russia and Polish (then part of the Russian Empire).

After the Russian Revolution, the Okhtana dispersed around the world, where they came to essentially run many of the anti-communist secret police agencies.

The Knights Templars - Persecuted by the Pope for heresy they were rounded up and tortured to death. They reemerged as todays Freemasons

The Knights Hospitallers - also known as the Order of St. John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta. Today they are the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. This group does charitable work and is recognized by several nations as a sovereign entity though they only have a small palace in Rome.

The Teutonic Knights - Do know much about them. They went into the Baltic states and took them over when they were controlled by "pagans" This is why you have a German heritage in the Baltic region(Prussia) Hitler and Himmler also tried to revive the Teutonic orders. The Teutonic castle at Wewelsburg is testament to that.

After the Pope suppressed the Templars in 1312, he gave over much of their treasure to the Hospitalers (Knights of Malta), who were in turn run out of Malta by Napolean and given asylum in Russia 1797, where they became the Court Policemen of the Prussian-dominated Romanovs. Meanwhile, the Teutonic Knights held sway over much of Prussia and the Baltics until Bismark consolidated Germany.

With the rise of nationalism in the 19th Century, there was a generalized breakdown in the old monarchial order. At this time, the military orders also lost much of their influence with the creation of modern states.

The 1871 Russo-Prussian War split the old Central-Eastern European Empires. Rising tensions between Germany, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Czarist Russia eventually resulted in the outbreak of World War One, and the end of the old Autocratic regimes that had been the center of so much intrigue by the military orders.

The legacy of the Knightly orders in the 20th Century was the dispersal of German and White Russian emigres to the West, where -- because of their anti-communist credentials -- they gained positions of great influence over the American and to a lesser extent the British and French secret services.

For those who don't know who I'm talking about, Kephra was a very longtime and active DUer who was also a Mason. I believe he had a pat speech for threads just like these.

Although I am not a member (wrong chromosomes), what I do know of the history of freemasonry in the US does not support the assertion that the mechanism of the lodges were leveraged for terror or oppression. Rather, they are part mutual aid society and brotherhood lodge.

It sure does seem like the Masons are all over the place as far as their rituals and affiliations.

I had very little idea that the "religion requirement" was so loosely defined. Very interesting.

Masons have a special handshake, by which they can knoo one another. Masons have, historically, helped each other out. My great-grandfather, grandfather, and uncle were all Masons, and they were all regular guys. I know that my grandfather was able to win my grandmother's hand on the strength of being a Mason, and my husband passed muster with my uncle when my uncle found out my late father in law had been a 33rd degree Mason.

BTW, ladies can be part of the organization-its called the Eastern Star. The meetings I've been to have been purely social, and so I wasn't interested.

I know about the Eastern Star; it's the ladies auxilliary. I understand the need for men-only social places, but I do let myself whine about it.

I just found out last month that he was a freemason. Of course he won't tell me about the secret handshake but he gave me a couple of books, kinda like their bibles. I couldn't understand it since it's mostly in codes. 33 or 32 degree..

We do have our most sacred book in code. It is actually in an ancient language that most people can't read. It is a form of Arabic, Masons started around the Egypt area of the desert (Masons=builders of the temples).

namely Egyptian Sufism. Don't know if this is so, but that's what one of my Sufi brothers told me--and yes, he was a Mason. My father-in-law, who was a 33rd degree Mason, took the Rosecrucian course. So at least some Masons weren't out to conquer the world-just conquer themselves.

I am a Mason and can tell you that there are tons of made up things said of us just like any other group or organization. The facts are that the Masons are one of the most giving organizations in history.

In order to be a Shriner, you have to be at a certain level of Mason. Ever heard of the Shriners hospital? It's one of the world's most respected children's hospitals in the world. The hospital is run all by donation and most patients get free treatment for all types of conditions and their families can stay for free durring the treatment process.

If you watch the history channel you will think the Masons are some evil group that tries to take over the world. Most Masons are actually old grandpas that have nothing better to do than play cards and tell stories. Mason's have no political or religious affiliation and you can freely join. All that is required is the yearly due (often like $20) and that you are a believer in telling the truth and helping others.

Edited to add:
Yes there are secrets and a handshake if your a Mason. The only real secret of the Masons is how to keep a secret. If we were really evil, we would have gotten rid of republicans a long time ago:) The majority of Masons also happen to be democrats because they are typical hard-working farmers or traditionalists. We Masons believe there is a higher power but there is no direction towards what the power is, you are free to believe whatever you want.

The secrets of Masonry are that you obey your iner-self and that you help others find their path. You cannot ask somebody to join the Masons and as somebody must want to "find the way" themselves. Most people don't know that the Eastern Star is the woman's version of the Mason's that was setup by Masons for their wives to have something of their own.

I dunno if I'd be interested in joining, but as at least a Buddhist leaning person and as someone who believes that it's just as ridiculous to say that God exists as it is to say that God does not exist, I can just imagine the amazing conversations I think I'd have with members.

What I wouldn't give to be able to just simply do just that just talk to a group of Masons about current events just see what they're really about.

And work your way through the first three degrees (which takes no time at all).

After you've gotten your third degree ("Master Mason") you could then join York Rite, Scottish Rite, or the Shrine.

you're forbidden to talk about politics or religion at the lodge...tends to keep things friendly. :)

But don't take my word for it.

btw, the Sottish Rite temple is near where I live in DC...it is one of the most beautiful buildings in the whole town. Much cooler than most of the monuments.

I am renovating a building that was a Prince Hall Grand Lodge from 1960-1999. Their meeting room is still mainly intact, and I'd like to incorporate some of the history into my renovation.

I know the basics - that Prince Hall was a black man who started his own branch of the Masons because black people were not allowed to become Masons. I've been looking for a good history book on the subject.

I do know that many of the great African-Americans of the past century have been Prince Hall Masons: Thurgood Marshall, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Lionel Hampton, Sugar Ray Robinson, Count Basie, Nat King Cole, WC Handy, Andrew Young. The list goes on and on.

Thanks for any info you might have! I'm really interested in the history.

-eeyore

I went to a dance at the Osiris Shrine and I have never had such a good time. Nice guys all, really.

My paternal grandfather was a Mason. I used to love looking at his gavel from when he was grand poobah of the local group. I also have an uncle on my mom's side that is a Mason. He wrote the reference letter for me to be in Job's Daughters.

Love the Masons. :loveya:

and my grandmother was in Eastern Star. I was in Rainbow Girls as a teenager, and most of the boys I knew were in DeMolay. Most of us were members of the same United Methodist Church, too. I guess because of my grandparents, I have always viewed the Masons as honorable, and good people.

And that's good enough for me. I'm looking into joining the OES, here in Iowa, though I hear the female branch has been taken over by Christians -- you know, the kind with curio cabinets.

I live in central Iowa and there are several very active chapters of the Eastern Star. You will find it is like any group of people, some are more religous oriented than others. You can easily find your own niche to fit into and enjoy it very much. I know that in Des Moines or a bigger city you are more likely to find a more diverse membership than you would in some of the smaller towns that I am from.

find a more liberal branch. I was just hoping that it was more like the men's branch with the North African mysticism and the open mindedness -- I've heard OES is not as much like that. I am still looking into it, though. I think Freemasons are fascinating -- and their kitsch is the best!

in order to join OES. Whatever you do...steer clear of Co-Masonry..it is not a legitimate branch of Freemasonry. Some are really cultlike...new agey stuff.

My Camel chain-smoking Gramps was a Mason, and a DIE HARD Dem. He told me, when he was on his deathbed that he didn't care what else I was (family freak, moved away, the only one to go to college), so long as I was a Dem -- and he encouraged me to join OES. I just never have. I do collect a lot of the memorabilia, however...

The Freeemasons were persecuted in the US. A political party was formed to combat alleged masonic involvement in government in the 19th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Masonic_Party

They were just regular Steel Mill laborers. My Dad got to 32nd degree if I remember right.

They do alot for burned children is about all I know about them.

They have been having open houses around the country lately. They are not a christian organization and catholics were banned from joining for the longest time. That is how the Knights of Columbus came to prominence in the US. They do use masonic imagery which is also used in some christian churches. In the UK, most MI5 and MI6 are Masons.

You will find that most Masons are democrats and lean more liberal than the average democrat or person. Most Masons are very understanding and are just trying to help answer their own questions about themselves. I joined when I was able to and I have no regrets about it. If you want to go to the lodge, you can talk to people and just have friends. There is no pressure of anyway to have any thoughts that others have or share.

I do know the handshake but won't even tell my wife...:)

I toured the local temple and our tour guide was a secretive, misogynistic freak.
When I asked why women weren't allowed he kept squeaking "it says fraternal, fraternal".
"Yeah, it says "Masons" too, but I bet you're not all stone cutters".

I think they rose in popularity here to combat the single minded catholic churches. The catholics were joined by common ritual, but the Protestants were split by sectarian differences. This was a way for them to work together, sometimes to strong-arm catholics out of contracts.

I also have strong suspicions that pornography is involved (screens are in every "temple" in the edifice I toured. That might account for some of the secrecy.

Of course, I have absolutely no proof of this....just a theory and a gut feeling.

I support Freemasonry and at one time was pissed about the rule regarding women. I do understand and support the reason they will never go "co-ed".

I think it would be great if women could form a sorority with half the consistancy of the freemasons but most attempts have failed to date. There were some successful sororities that were active in France and worked very closely with the Freemasons years ago. I believe the DAR in the US played an important role as well at one time.

I doubt(and would bet my firstborn)that any organized pornography is part their meetings. I have Masonic books going back centuries and although relativistic in some instances..morality and respect for women have always been stressed.

Also, although they may have been here "before the Catholics..." I still believe that their popularity had a lot to do with uniting protestant sects.

They do good works but are also notorious for being used as mating pools.lol Affairs, cliques, divisions, etc. are inevitable in that atmosphere historically.

Am I saying that females are a distraction? Yes, but so are men to us in that situation. Biology does manage to distract no matter how much some try to deny it. Plato is archaic but had the nature of man pegged.

Freemasonry is often a stepping stone to future leaders. A vetting of sorts. As far as the protestant connection...you cannot equate all protestants to the fundy model we see today.

Groups like the Knights of Columbus and the Fellowship foundation and Promise Keepers have tried to use the wisdom of freemasonry to build their power base and have been fairly successful but...the secret of freemasonry is that they are the foundation builders of every society and without a foundation, a house will fall. In Nazi Germany, Freemasons were banned,persecuted and killed to give an example.

sorry for the ramble...I love the history of freemasonry.

The Freemasons didn't prohibit them. The symbolism doesn't interface well with Catholic belief systems, which emphasize obedience to papal authority.

As for symbolism in public places, take a look at U.S. money. The "eye" is a masonic symbol. Several U.S. presidents have taken their oaths on Masonic bibles. I don't remember who the last one was to have done that...Poppy maybe?

In fact, there's a portrait of Franklin in his High Priest apron in the Philadelphia Freemason temple.

George Washington wore his own Masonic apron for many early national ceremonies. Washington DC is also supposed to be laid out with Masonic configurations, but I don't know much about that. There are quite a few anti-Masonic writers but they also tend to be anti-American, too.

I used to believe the masons were evil too, simply because they seem to wield as much power as they need or want. But after reading more, I admire them. Most are Christian (at least appear to be in the community) but they are definately more liberal in that they allow all beliefs and seem to practice religious rituals that are outside known practices, which have led them to be accused of practicing Babylon Mystery Religions or Satanism. Masons are what transitioned the west from rule by bloodline or force to rule by the people where we choose based on competancy. USA was the first, then France, and from there all the countries of europe followed. The kings tried to crack down once they got wind of the french revolution and masons were persecuted but prevailed. In the USA there were uproars over masons from time to time, even an anti-masonic party based on a few books one being 'proofs of a conspiracy' by robison I believe. Masons are The Builders. There is a good book on the masonic layout in the architecture of washington DC. Also most major churches were made by masons, some in europe people have no idea how humans could have donw it. They were involved in the pyramids also. That is whats cool about them is they are competant and intellectual, setting up puzzles for the aware person to wonder, how the hell? To them geometry is like a religion, they carry traditions from the cult of pythagoras. Jesus said the stone that The Builders reject, make that your cornerstone. Churches are divided on masonry, some are very masonic, some oppose it.

My father is no longer practicing or a member or whatever they call it, but he's still very secretive about the freemasons. I've been picking his brains since I found out about him. He's been giving me bits and pieces of info but he won't tell me everything. He's a democrat too.:-) I too use to think freemasons were evil. When I found out about my father, I was like, what??? No way! You?? You're just a regular guy dad! He's a very understanding person and loves people.

Just askin'.

just saying the masons have been persecuted through out history by people paranoid about what they really believe. There is a good book called 'The mythology of Secret Societies' about this.

it's the people who are totally up front about the stuff they believe, particularly the outspoken fundamentalists of the biggest religions on the planet- that are the really frightening ones!

Secrecy doesn't imply, to me at least, anything sinister- instead perhaps an awareness illuminated by historical experience in totalitarian situation after totalitarian situation, where people like Giordano Bruno were burned at the stake for speaking the truth.

I'll keep an eye out for that book. Welcome to DU, by the way :hi:

Oh wait. Wrong one...

The Stonecutters

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscars night?
We do! We do!

Ewige Blumenkraft!

...that everything they do is controlled by the Freemasons. Masons monopolize the highest offices, own most of the stuff, and basically run everything, more or less out of sight and independent of the law. Most people are blissfully unaware of this and couldn't care less, but that's OK -- you're not meant to know it.

If the Freemasons suddenly decided you had to die right this very minute, you wouldn't be reading this. In fact, I might just be gunned down within minutes of hitting "Post message".

it has been airing on the History Channel and it provides a great overview of secret societies throughout history, without too much conspiracy theory hype. It shows how "masonry" evolved from the early Egyptians (as well as Celtics, as I understand), through the Knights Templar and then on to the Founding Fathers. Then the program takes an interesting fascist turn and starts going into detail about the Bush and other powerful NE families, Skull & Bones, Nazism, the Trilateral Commission, and finally the Bilderbergers (who don't really go by that name).

If you want to see other points of view, go here:
http://www.dailykos.com/user/antifascist2005
particularly the entry about the "Fourth Reich." (hey when are those DU Journals going to be running?)

There are probably good secret society people and bad, just as there are good and bad in anything else. I tend to agree with someone who mentioned that when there has been too much inbreeding it tends to focus too much on evil occultism (that's EVIL occultism, not the good kind) and magical thinking, ahem.

What, the builder worry?


:D

Edit: I read a book on the masons, that's the extent of my knowledge.

I know that story never gets told in school, but our nation was founed by the freemasons.

"The Headquarters of the American Revolution."

And have long believed the Masons of St. Andrews to be the organizers of the Boston Tea Party.

I see that word from time to time but don't know what it means. Does it have anything to do with Masons?

The Illuminati Trilogy. A very tongue in cheek collection of conspiracies involving the Masons, the OTO, Marilyn Monroe, ufos, etc. In the book, 'fnord' was a word that everyone, during the first grade, was hypnotized not to see, consequently news was peppered with the word fnord, but no one ever notices it.

My husband is a Mason. Last year we spent a night in a hotel in Columbus and found it full of a very friendly, very middle-class, and entirely black convention of some kind. My husband said, "Oh yeah, that's the black Masons." If I got his explanation right, they were an entirely separate organization, although I may be wrong on that.

It was founded in Polaski, Tennessee, in 1866 by 6 Confederate officers. One of them, and the first Imperial Wizard of the KKK, was a former Confederate general and Freemason, Nathan Bedford Forrest.

... Albert Pike held the office of Chief Justice of the KKK while he was simultaneously Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite of Masonry, in the Southern Jurisdiction...

v.0.5 was founded as an officers' club (Pike, Forrest, etc.), then rapidly morphed into a racist terrorist group during Reconstruction in the 60s and 70s; it was re-founded in 1915 or thereaobuts (v.2.0); this is now in various pieces, notably Duke's Knights of the KKK.
Pike actually really blasted U.S. policy towards the Native Americans, who were then despised on the same level as wolves and other "uncontrollable" and "indomitable" types in the West. It's in Morals and Dogma.

Blacks had to form their own, because they were historically excluded from membership.

claims that many of the hidden Mormon secrets are Masonic symbols and lore

You mean "part of the congressional record", yes. Not much of a secret. Not exactly interesting though... it's a few rituals and movements. Yes, they're (LDS secrets) very similar to Mason secrets, and the masons killed the founder of CoJCoLDS for revealing of secrets to non-masons. Old history.

The real power of groups isn't about a handshake, or a motto, it's about the group power.

many scholarly books that claimed that a major push for increased democracy and openness of society came from the Masons......and that was why the Catholic hierarchy and leaders and nations that were opposed to democracy demonized the Masons

I'm personally suspicious of the claims that the Masons derive from the Templars b/c the first time I read this claim was in the sequel to Holy Blood, Holy Grail.....Holy Blood, Holy Grail is fun to read but EXTREMELY non-scholarly; most of the footnotes supposedly supporting the more interesting claims made in the book are of the type 'we found this in a letter in an archive at ____, but when we went back to check on some of the details the letter had disappeared'

......I wish I could get paid big bucks for such 'scholarship'

The Knights Templar seem to glorify the Crusades and the importance of the history of royal Christianity:

http://www.ordotempli.org/siege_of_nicea.htm

The Knights of Malta is even more exclusive in its membership requirements:

http://www.knightshospitallers.org/requirements.htm

It has been argued that many of the most powerful among the Christian Right with ties to our current administration also are members of the Knights of Malta as well as the upper echelons of Opus Dei. This is the Council of National Policy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3152883

I highly suggest reading the Illuminati trilogy. Same joke, only funnier, and with better sex scenes.

If you'e serious, check out Eco. Or even better, the sources. DVC is the sane...

I admit, secret societies hold an allure for me, this thread has been eye opening and positive.

back around 1980. Heh, heh. : )

The free masons started off as a Scottish group of stone masons who wanted to unionize to get higher wages. Because authorities were so anti-union/guild they went underground and eventually morphed into a pseudo ritualistic fraternal order. That's when Christian groups began to claim Free Masons were pagans and working for the devil etc...