BUSH wins.

--Saddam didn't kick the UN weapons inspectors out of Iraq.
http://www.fair.org/activism/post-expulsions.html

But bush did.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-inspectors-iraq_x.htm

--Saddam targeted extremist Shite al-Sadr & his militia

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html

So did bush.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/portrait_of_a_rebellion

--Saddam wouldn't let human rights groups into all prisons;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html

Neither will bush.

Rights Groups Demand That US Open All Detention Facilities

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0510-01.htm

Officer Says Army Tried to Curb Red Cross Visits to Prison in Iraq

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0519-04.htm

War Crimes: Gen. Sanchez Hid Prisoner From Red Cross

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/061404B.shtml

--Saddam arbitrarily arrested Iraqis; tortured Iraqis;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html

So does bush.

70% to 90% of Iraq Prisoners 'Arrested by Mistake'

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-04.htm

Detainees Suffer Terror at US Hands; Red Cross Says Torture Part of Deliberate Tactic

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

Iraqi Security Tactics Evoke the Hussein Era

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-detainees19jun19,0,5477828.story?coll=la-home-headlines

--Saddam arrested and tortured children;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html

So does bush.

Military Analyst Describes Abuse of 16-Year-Old in Iraq Prison

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0520-07.htm

Iraq's child prisoners

http://www.sundayherald.com/43796

*And wait until the so-far unreleased batch of Abu Ghraib photos and videos are made public. Be sure to cover your ears; the screaming of the children tortured by the US will scar your soul forever.

--Saddam "disappeared" Iraqis;

http://hrw.org/worldreport99/mideast/iraq.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html

So does bush.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15981-2004May10.html

--Hussein "mass-graved thousands" (5100 remains found to date);

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-07/18/content_1611454.htm

So does bush.

Mass graves to reveal Iraq war toll

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1021466,00.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A53654-2003Apr18?language=printer

http://www.sptimes.ru/archive/times/878/opinion/o_9708.htm

But BUSH is the winner of record number of Abu Ghraib detainees;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1342893.htm

BUSH is the winner for doubling the child malnutrition rate

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-03-30-un-iraq-malnutrition_x.htm

BUSH is the winner for Iraqis being 58 times more likely to die

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

BUSH is the winner for less oil & electricity

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php?page=business&story_id=101105d1_oil

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/30/AR2005043001121.html

BUSH is the winner for less clean drinking water, sanitation

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/reconstruct/2005/0410waste.htm

BUSH is the winner for creating terrorists in Iraq

http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=25437

BUSH is the winner for creating terrorists outside Iraq

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3451239.stm

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2629.html

http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/terrorwar/analysis/2004/0526iissreport.htm

Into the third year of American "superiority", Iraqis Endure Worse Conditions Than Under Saddam
http://www.health-now.org/site/article.php?menuId=14&articleId=446

bush wins.

.

Starving Iraq for 12 years apparently wasn't abuse enough.

wow, where have I seen that salute before....?:yoiks:

Excellent post. This will probably be on the Greatest Page by the time I hit the Submit button.

that was a good ass research thank you! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

claims Saddam did he's doing himself. What an ass. And of course nobody question's him on it.

:applause:

There is a lot of work in there. What makes it really stand out is the comparisons you have made for those of us who need such ammo.

Damned fine post - thank you for your hard work - it is appreciated.

btw, I won't look at the pics or videos of the abused kids if any appear...it would mess with my head bigtime...shaking my head in sorrow and anger.

:kick:

how can we tell them how sorry we are?
What have we done to them?
How can we undo any of the harm? What do we owe them?
How can we begin to make it up?

Staying is no answer and neither is just leaving and turning away.

We can't restore the lives of their people or our soldiers. We can't repair the shame we wrought.

bush and his friends...really do belong in prison, their money and property stripped and given over to begin to make reparations.

GET THE HELL OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY.

Coz they don't care about yours or my guilty feelings.

And pay them reparations money.

A lot of reparations money.

And then for the war criminals?

IMPEACH. INDICT. IMPRISON.

Dems win as biggest appeasers of the minority party!

Bush is the president, as the presidency is determined solely by the electoral college vote, and he won that. Also, the Republicans are in actuality the majority party, as they have the greatest number of seats in both the House and Senate, as well as the White House.

EDIT: Pronoun confusion, apparently calling myself a Republican. Oh, dear.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I am a registered Democrat. I voted for Kerry, and would have voted for Gore, but was a month too young. I don't believe Bush should have won 2004, but he did. And even if he did lose the vote in OH, which I doubt, by the constitution he is still the legitimate president, as he fulfilled every constitutional provision for becoming president: the Electoral College voted him in. Does that mean I agree with him? No. Do I agree with the war? No. Do I believe he should be beyond reproach? No. He should have his ass kicked, especially by the press.

The Democrats are unfortunately the minority party. Our senators may represent more people, but they are in fact fewer in number. There are more Dems than Republicans, but we lost the gerrymandering wars and we have fewer representitives. And so we must act the part of a minority party. That means picking battles. It isn't a good situation, but it's the political reality, and a major problem with this board is that some people believe that people who believe in political reality are shunned. Ironically, supporting the Democratic Leadership Council gets one branded a Republican around here--not that I do, I think they have entirely the wrong strategy, and for similar reasons as you presumably do.

Edit: I know this board loves to reply to everything with the same canned "worst pResident ever," "impeach," "fraud," "illegal," "treason," etc, etc. And while that's fun, it's not helpful. Because it would be impossible to impeach a majority-party president, and there is no airtight case for fraud, but only allegation, our energies are much better spent working on figuring out ways to beat the Republicans.

Look, if I were a Republican, I would be a smart enough mole not to challenge y'all. Rather, I would be an agent provocateur and incite the delusional rantings, because those are useless wastes of time. I would probably even pretend to want to further widen the divide between the Dem base and the Dem leadership. Heck, over on FR, I'm calling Miers too liberal, just to try to wedge them just a little bit more. You don't gain anything by turning the enemies on you. You gain by turning them against each other.

Quote:

"Also, the Republicans are in actuality the majority party, as we have the greatest number of seats in both the House and Senate..."

Well, that's awfully damning. What I first wrote was "Democrats" "Minority" and "fewest," as the poster claimed we were the majority party. then decided going off the word "majority" worked better, and changed it too "Republicans" and "Majority." Fixed. How embarassing. I'm sorry for the self-righteous rant.

:)

there are mountains of circumstantial evidence. Murderers have been convicted on circumstantial evidence in fair trials.

Do I want someone who 'was in on it' to come out and sing? SURE.

Am I willing to fight for the impeachment or resignation of the * administration as a result of mountains of circumstantial evidence. SURE.

If we appease bullies, they just get stronger. If we wait until we have an airtight case to accuse and act, then we have appeased.

:kick:

system of voting.

The burden of proof is not on the voters. This is not a murder trial we're talking about. Unless of course we want to get all hyperbolic and dramatic by saying "it's the murder of Democracy."

The burden of proof is not on the American people to prove a voting system is corrupt and crippled.

If there is no paper trail (for starters) it is a broken system and the results of that election are...how shall I put this? For shit. The results are for shit.

Yes, that's it.

The burden of proof is on the government indeed when it comes to providing a fair system of voting. But the burden of proof is also on the accuser when you claim that a crime as grevious as theft of a presidential election. I don't believe trail-less voting is a good thing for America. I wish we could get rid of touchscreen machines. I would be heavily in favor of a bill to do so.

I think there's is plenty of proof to procede.

We have some Democrats who don't want to, perhaps because all the Dem's dirty laundry will come out in the wash as well.

Edit: took out "n/t".

Delete

People forget this isn't England. You don't get anything for 45% here.

they didn't like, used the filibuster all the time, and obstructed the dems as much as they could via parliamentary procedures. There are protections for the minority party in the senate - but the dems refuse to use them, hold press conferences condemning Bush atrocities, they vote for most anything Bush wants, etc. Not true that they have their hands tied and can't do anything. Call the repukes bluff re: nuking filibuster. Then don't bring it back when/if they regain a majority in the senate. Instead, they allow themselves to be bullied. Refuse to strand up to the repukes. Refuse to articulate a clear message about what they would do vs the repuke actions. Katrina is a golden example. No blanket condemnation of Bush and his cronies leaving thousands to die without help. Sorry, but they could do a LOT to obstruct the destructive actions of the repukes. But they don't - they're at the same corporate teats as the repukes.

Edit: Also, where are the dem press conferences about how the repukes illegally keep postponing votes in the house if they don't have enough votes to pass their legislation. Chanting shame during the session is great, but they should hold press conferences about it, pointing out the corporate welfare lavished on the oil companies. Why do they not hammer Frist, Delay, etc? Why do they not talk about Abramamof, etc? This is why no one gets fired up about voting for dems. No clear message about what they would do differently than the repukes. Even when certain dems propose half-ass plans for pulling out of Iraq, people like Senator Clinton hold press conferences saying we shouldn't set a timeline for withdrawing our troops - WTF?! And they refuse to talk about the LIES, the OSP, the WHIG, etc ad nauseum. Spinelss jellyfish pussies inspire no one. Dems should introduce legislation repealing the * tax cuts but don't. We are screwed with their appeasment.

. . . that DU showed the entire URL on these posts. Would love to post this info in a few other places.

:)

:)

:9 :9 :9

to send out to those chain-lie loving Republicans that are always forwarding their amazingly distorted e-mail versions of reality.

Very good work Lynn.

day to ruin America"? I'm paraphrasing very badly, but it was a good one.

Was it "the terrorists are working hard to destroy America and so are we"?

I have a couple of folks that I can't wait to sent this to.

:toast:

the pockets of Halliburton & Co.

Bush wins.

And Diebold's and ES&S's "trade secret," proprietary programming code in the new electronic voting systems, funded by $4 billion from Bush's "pod people" in Congress, with not a word of objection to Bushite control of the vote tabulation, behind the "Wizard of Oz" curtain of electronic voting, by the Democratic Party leadership.

Bush wins against the odds.

Illegal war wins. Torture wins. Looting us blind wins. Lying wins. Treason wins. Even though Americans oppose these things in huge numbers, way up in the 60% to 70% range, and have for some time (way before the election).

Corrupt election officials win.*

Democrats win modestly, a few obvious seats. Bushite criminals, looters and traitors win big, repeatedly, no matter what they do.

And Diebold & brethren win--billions of dollars in payment for "lemon," rigged machines that insure that the billions of dollars to war profiteers, the super-rich and global corporate predators, will keep on coming, and that war and torture and treason and other crimes continue, with no accountability.

Taxpayer (poor, middle class) dollars to Diebold and brethren, who turn around and contribute millions to Bushite campaigns and then create the preordained election results by which Bushite thieves and murderers rule over us.

A perfect loop of massive corruption...

...that can only be broken by throwing these election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor.'


---------


* The corruption of our election officials...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

Great way to get the Truth out to Everybody! Thanks for all the good work on this!

Knowing they'd just HAVE to look with such a title.

Heh. :D

Thanks.

:kick:

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

This is a keeper. Thank you for sharing.

Peace

Thanks. This is bookmarked!

Very thorough and well researched.

You da bomb.

the infrastructure badly damaged, their priceless artifacts pillaged, all for liberty, freedom, and democracy, Bush-style. History will accord the proper place of the events that have taken place there.

occupation would be. They wrote about it (A World Transformed)
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp

But 'the favored son' can't read. And the neocons detest pointyheaded intellectuals telling them what's in store. Besides, with Greater Israel-- see maps

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/greater-israel-maps.htm

and an evangelical base that depends upon a Third Temple and Forcing God's Hand, see

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/greater-israel.htm

(near bottom of page)

you have the fulfillment of Futurism, as shown at
www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

and as artfully described in George Monbiot's article:

Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power--
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy

www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html

So, when evangelical eschatology is used by neocons to prop up a foreign policy that leads to nothing but trouble in the Middle East, you get the current bad situation. Ousting Saddam was one thing, an occupation is clearly another.

BTW, throwing the Powell Doctrine out with the bathwater ... we were supposed to have learned something from Vietnam, that is

"Essentially, the Doctrine expresses that military action should be used only as a last resort and only if there is a clear risk to national security by the intended target; the force, when used, should be overwhelming and disproportionate to the force used by the enemy; there must be strong support for the campaign by the general public; and there must be a clear exit strategy from the conflict in which the military is engaged."

www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/teachers/lessonplans/iraq/powelldoctrine_short.html

Powell is miffed about his UN performance; he should also be miffed about his doctrine being *-canned.

:kick:

As usual, you nailed it.

Just playing obviousman.

-Hoot

and I bow to you.

I would love to see this get 100 votes. K & R.

*blush*

:hug:

Congratulations.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=greatest_threads

:D

Thanks! :hug:

Mr. Howard Dean, sir, is there no position for our brilliant and hardworking LynnTheDem?

:thumbsup: to you, Lynn my love.

:D

Ta very much, luv ya! :hug:

That's the leftover land mine we saved just for you. It's one of those that doesn't go off until you try to step away.

Enjoy.

:kick:

:yourock:

saw that the numbers of comments were outweighed by the recommendations! I ignored this thread yesterday, not imagining what your post would contain. What a great source of information. Thanks SO MUCH. I love DU!

Yes, we're the losers, not Bush & Company.

Bush and his cronies WIN, and Americans have lost like never before, for generations to come. :argh:

:hi: