A detail in the Judy Miller part of this story that hasn't been noted - -

At least as far as I know, it hasn't been noted.

Dearest Husband was a reporter for twenty years or so. He said tonight at dinner, "You do realize that reporters just don't turn over their notes to a prosecuter, don't you?"

By which he meant that reporters NEVER turn over their notes without a fight.

As you'll recall, Matt Cooper didn't turn over his notes even when about to go to jail. Time-Warner, his bosses, declared ownership of some relevant emails, and turned those over, but Cooper never did turn over any of his notes.

I checked, and upon rereading the stories, it seems they do say that Miller turned over her notes of that June meeting with Libby to the prosecutor.

So what does this mean?

Is Judy voluntarily singing like a canary? sparrow? cockatiel?

Or has the prosecutor threatened her with a conspiracy charge and she's crying Uncle?

Or . . . well you fill in the blank.

I think it's huge (Hugh! Hugh!) that Miller turned over her notes, so I'd be interested in what some of you think is behind it.

prison sentence.

I have read some speculations that Miller is actually an undercover CIA agent as well--not sure if that is true or just speculation as I have read it in passing.
However...if this WERE true...then she wouldn't be held to the same standards as a reporter would she?

That has got to be scaring the hell out of everyone involved in this. What I have found most interesting so far is that the plan to discredit Wilson came long before he wrote the op-ed about Niger. I can't quite get my mind around that one.

Don

I just pray we are in for the October surprise of our lives and it doesn't just fizzle.

the upshot is that Valerie's main sphere of work was weapons proliferation and she may have been headed down the path that cheney et al were planning on using to plant wmd's or whatever, so they had to take her out. If you take Wilson's op ed out of the picture, it all still fits together. It seems that Joe was simply interested in the truth and since that's like kryptonite to the bush*/cheney crime syndicate, throwing some shit his way was pretty much SOP for them.

At least that's how MY head is wrapped around it.

Cheers and good night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5039448&mesg_id=5039876

I've never seen anything so terrifyingly internally consistent. When you add the mysterious death of John Kokal to the mix, it becomes obvious that there is a major black op at the core of all this.

For a look at Kokal's death, start with this:
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/suicide-dont-fall-for-it.html

...the CIA, by setting Wilson up on wild goose chase to Niger, based on forged documents, and, baiting him to reply when they put the Niger charge into Bush's SOTU speech anyway, tying him to the CIA, and then discrediting the CIA, when the WMDs they were planning to "plant" in Iraq got "found" by Judith Miller. The CIA is thus discredited as fools and dangerous for not believing that Iraq had nukes, and Bush and Blair are crowned co-emperors of the world.

But the plant got foiled. Somebody prevented those WMDs from being planted. Couple of stories out of Pakistan and Iran to that effect. David Kelly, the Brits chief WMD expert--who had been whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC about the "sexed up" WMD intel--got wind of these stories (he was an old hand in Iraq), investigated, and stumbled upon the Bush Cartel plot, and, after he was mysteriously outed to his bosses and consequently interrogated at a "safe house," Tony Blair was informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things." (COULD say. Not HAD said.) Blair calls Bush and warns them that Kelly knows about the plot to plant WMDs. July 7, 2003. This is the real trigger of the Plame outing--and of the panicky, full court press to get her outed quickly, putting many top Bushites at high risk of treason charges (--they contacted at least SIX reporters, for instance--six potential journalist witnesses to treason--until they found their patsy, Novak). Plame is outed a week later, on July 14 (by Novak). Four days later, Kelly is found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances; his office and computers searched. Four days after that, they out the entire CIA WMD monitoring program (Brewster/Jennings), disabling all projects and putting all covert agents and contacts at risk of getting killed. (Also Novak.)

The main reason for the Plame outing, and the followup BJ outing--and especially for the way they did it, so precipitously and at high risk--was to smash any knowledge of their nefarious plot, and insure silence through fear. Presumably David Kelly knew something about CIA involvement in foiling their plot, and Blair passed that along, too.

That's the theory in a nutshell. It's a pretty good theory. There are a lot of details I've haven't mentioned (like Miller's connections to Kelly). One important one--to answering your question--is that Wilson called Rice (circa spring '03) to get the regime to back off of the Niger allegation, and she told him, through intermediaries, that she was not interested in his information, but, if he was so concerned about it, why didn't he publish it?

Sure sounds like she was baiting him. In any case, they expected the article. It was not a surprise.

This theory also explains why Miller would be meeting with Libby back in June about Wilson (prior to his article publication). They knew he was going to publish. They had a STRATEGY, a plan, to discredit the CIA, of which the WMD-planting plot was a component, as was his article. They weren't just lying and putting out false allegations; they were trying to plant actual weapons, for a phony "news scoop" (that Miller would get). She was probably in on it. But it wasn't going well. They were being foiled (probably a couple of times). Who was foiling them? What was going wrong? What to do now? Someone (Powell aide) was meanwhile working up the Plame memo, to tie Wilson to the CIA.

It all comes to a head July 7, probably with some tidbit of info that Kelly had about CIA involvement in foiling the WMD-planting. Then they go into panic mode, and start making serious mistakes, like involving six reporters.

The capper is the outing of BJ, which had nothing to do with punishing Wilson for his article, and everything to do with shutting down the CIA as a worldwide WMD monitoring group. They may have wanted to do that anyway (in fact I'm sure they did), but it ADDS to their risk of treason charges. Not necessary to punishing Wilson. Overkill, pointing to fear and to a precipitant cause (fear of imminent exposure of their plot).

<http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2005_10_02_firedoglake_archive.html#112875435125842723>

<http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2005/10/sweet_judy_blew.html#more>

<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-kleiman/patrick-fitzgeralds-mous_b_8569.html>

Brilliant speculation on how Miller caught herself in a perjury trap. Which voided her agreement with Fitzgerald. Which made her amazingly eager to cooperate.

Gonna check them out in the morning.

3 fantastic links. I now have a better understanding of this investigation than nearly all of the newspeople on television... i am hopeful, oh so hopeful, that indictments and convictions are soon to follow. Can the gov't seize assetts from these rethugs after we put them in jail?

and he has a beautiful voice! I doubt she does

:-)

is tangible.

My grandmother had a pair of cockatiels that whistled "Put your little foot".

I always thought they were very talented. :)

Fitzgerald has managed to get Miller into a "perjury trap" that has negated her earlier deal with him.

Someone may have given Fitzgerald information about Miller's June conversations with Libby. When he called her in to talk, he may have asked her enough questions to catch her in a lie about it. If Fitzgerald then called her attorney and said she had perjured herself about those June conversations, she would be highly motivated to make a deal and turn over the notes.

My theory, anyway.

They could have been watching Miller too. I think it is a real possibilty that she turned either while in jail or even before she went to jail.

On edit:
I have a theory that Miller set Libby up here.

Not just Libby - this woman has alot of powerful friends - reminds me of Life in the Fast Lane by the Eagles - the boys may not be pretty but they know alot.

Former boyfriend was Les Aspin when he was Sec Defense.

appear that notes regarding to conversations with Libby prior to July were part of the deal Miller had with Fitz.

Miller did turn over redacted notes as part of her agreement with Fitz. http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001219832

The notes from June turned over last Friday are another matter. Speculation is that something happened subsequent to Miller's testimony that caused Fitz and her attorney to "urge" her to look again for notes relating to the Libby/Wilson matter. Perhaps Fitz had info that contradicted something Miller said. It seems it may be the scope of Miller's questioning/testimony is now broader than previously agreed upon. Unlikely that Miller is turning over other stuff beyond her July conversations and again testifying from a sense of civic duty.

Very good, indeed.

I think it is fair to say that Ms. Miller turned over her notes only after Fitzgerald informed her attorneys that she had been caught in an unfortunate lie in her first day of testimony. He had proof of her having spoken with two (very) high level White House officials early on in the effort to marginalize Wilson. He had evidence provided by a mid-level official that he "turned" in the first week of July, 2004. Others in the administration have wondered who was talking, but because of the "no leak" policy of Fitzgerald, and the fact that over twelve people could have provided identical information, they were not able to identify the man singing.

Do you have a link to that? I would like to read more.

,...whereas the neoCONster squad were the ones who conspired to lie (which would be completely consistent with their SOP). That would be my best guess.

In my view, we look at events and infer the missing pieces.

She gets out of jail after 85 days, she testifies, she suddenly remembers some things that happened earlier, she produces some notes of June meetings, and she signs a 2 million dollar plus book deal.

Judith Miller, COME ON DOWN!!

The prosecutor has positioned the case for this moment, when the levee breaks on the obstruction. Miller has to be rolling on Rove and Libby.

She's finished at the NY Times, IMO.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/

Well, that alone would be a blessing.

Fingers crossed that she takes these malefactors with her.

and the WH.

She did three months in a place that will suck the life out of the average person. Lack of privacy, communication, food, stuff, access to internet and info ... takes its toll. She broke and made a deal, and now, like a spy who has been turned around, she's spilling it all.

She may have realized she can be the John Dean of the biggest scandal to hit the presidency since Watergate. Fame, vanity, money ... versus eating it for Rove?


http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/

trusting her to tell the truth.

No way she could suddenly get this guy happy without coughing up a hairball from the White House.

I will be shocked if Rove and Libby are not indicted.


http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/

;)

n/t

those posing as journalists when their job is actually propagandist for the fascists. Especially when real investigative journalists are marginalized, ignored or suicided on a fairly regular basis.

Give me another week, and I may join in on the optimism. ;)

back at the beginning of the war we were getting reports from an Russian translater who could listen in on the war machine that was the USA?

Well I seem to remember that and it was discreated at the time that a bunch of CIA guys had been discovered and killed by the Iraqi government.

Anyway, I was trying to find some thing on these and found this story.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030403-101300-9688r

Exclusive: 3 CIA assets killed in Baghdad

By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
Published 4/4/2003 8:12 PM

Three Iraqis who aided the CIA in the March 20 attempt by the United States to kill Iraqi President Saddam Hussein were executed this week by Iraqi counterintelligence, former and serving U.S. officials told United Press International.

A super-secret U.S. intelligence operation, working in Baghdad for weeks before the war, provided the crucial targeting data for the attack on Saddam and his sons, launched in an effort to pre-empt a full-scale war, these sources said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The war had been scheduled to start Friday, March 21, U.S. officials told UPI. But -- after getting intelligence that a brief target opportunity presented itself to decapitate the Iraqi leadership -- President George W. Bush instead announced at 10:15 p.m. Wednesday, March 19 -- 6:15 a.m. March 20 Baghdad time -- that hostilities had begun.

Delta and Special Forces units in the country had help from three Iraqi agents recruited by the CIA some time after June 2000, when the first CIA paramilitary teams secretly entered Baghdad to do reconnaissance and recruitment.

snip

I don't think Ms. Miller enjoyed her 85 days in lock-up, and providing bogus notes would provide her with 6 years or more of same. No way she risks it. She's been scared straight, and Fitzgwerald is almost certainly hanging a perjury charge and those 6 years over her head, which leads to her remarkably clear memory nowadays. Someone, and maybe many, is going down hard.

Scooter won't be able to help her as he will be in there also. If she wants to remain free she better spill her guts. This ain't no Ken Star these right wingers are dealing with. This man is a serious Prosecutor not a hack.

This thread is a must read for Plame Game fanatics. (read those Peace Patriot links!)