16 Children. At least one is Gayer than a treeful of parrots...

What will they do THEN?

Really. Fundies ought to learn more about math and oddsmaking.

Try to exorcise the demon spirit from him/her?

she would have one of his brothers beat it out of him.

Nice people.

gay and they let him do all of their financial dealings with stock, etc. My overly religious mother said that if she had a gay child she certainly wouldn't let them do her financial stuff. I laughed out loud and asked her what possible difference would it make? You just can't deal with these people. Her answer was she wouldn't trust them.

That gay teenagers make up a huge percentage of kids living on the streets.

or is this just misuse of questionable statistics???

subjectProdigal

And the later you are in the birth order the more likely you are to be gay.

as my post below shows. Even if it is 5% then there is still no way statistically to say one of the children WILL be gay or IS gay. You find a study that supports your 'desired' statistic as easily a pull a number out of your arse.

subjectProdigal

Give me Intelligent Design.

but you can argue the point that way if you wish...

subjectProdigal

of statistics and probabilities going on here.

It's inaccurate to say that 1 of 16 is definitely gay because that mirrors the percentage in the population.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more were gay, partly because that's well within the range of probability, and partly because gay people are distributed across the whole population including the least hospitable segments.

so most likely 1 will be gay and another will be at least bi!

"Gayer than a treeful of monkeys on nitrous oxide." - Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett.

Another good one is how a "Doctor Who" fan once described executive producer Russell T. Davies: "Gayer than a big gay thing that has a particular reason to be gay."

"Steal, steal, steal" -- William Borroughs' advice to writers.

:shrug:

Some are just a little "different."

:rofl:

if there is a gay gene. Unless the gay gene is actually a mutation of some sort. Also, given that the accepted figure for occurance of homosexuality is 6%, there actually is a fairly reasonable chance none of the children are gay. It isn't amazing by any means but it isn't totally off the charts either. The figure is .94^16 which is just over 37%. I get that figure from the 94% chance each child is not gay multiplied out 16 times. On edit even using 10% the figure is still just over 17% chance that none are gay.

"fudge" factor. Sorry, I could not resist. It's almost Friday. :spank:

though I know you are kidding a bit as well. But as you see from the edit it doesn't lower it to insignificance.

for the past 6 weeks.

I say bring on the parrots. And if at least one isn't openly gay, there's still the possibility of the mehlman/drier kind of gay. You know, straight as an arrow when pressing the rethuglican flesh, queer as a three-dollar-bill when having the flesh pressed. Parrots please.

BTW, I am not a practicing homosexual. Never had to. Was naturally very, very good at it.

Not true?

This was just word of mouth, not research.

Bell/Weinberg 1970 – < 2% total M and F (ratings of siblings)

Cameron/Ross 1975-78 – 3.1% M, 3.9% F

FRI 1983 – 5.4% M, 3.6% F (4,340 respondents)

Trocki 1988-89 – 3% M, 2% F

NCHS 1988-91 – ² 3.5% M (over 50,000 respondents)

Catania/NABS 1992 – 2% M, 2% F (4% in urban areas; 10,600 respondents)

Billy/Battelle 1993 – ³ 1.1% M

quite a range. This does not include bisexuals, I'm assuming? Because I know THAT number would drive it way up.

I think basically all the gay women I know personally consider themselves bisexual because they were in marriages previous to their current female partner.

study shows something different. and YES, in the studies I have looked at there are numbers as high as 37% that adult men (over the age of 15) have had a homosexual/bisexual experience at least once...

subjectProdigal

and amazing that there are no "definitive" studies on this. Personally, I'd also think 37% was low.

I figure that sexuality is a continuum. And maybe we shift along that from time to time.

is that no one can really define exactly what "gay" means and how to identify it. Since there isn't a test for gayness (well except for Priscilla Queen of the Desert) really, the only way to actually categorize someone as gay is if they self identify as such. And that doesn't take into account the many people who might, in other circumstances, self-identify as gay but don't for whatever reason. It''s like trying to figure out what percentage of the population is naturally blond, in a world in which it is easy for blondes to be brunettes, and there is a social advantage, in many circles, to being brunette, and a stigma associated with being blonde. How do you account for all the blondes who dye their hair to fit in with a brunette society?

on edit: Touched by the spirit and touched by the Raster. PRAISE THE LOWERED (trousers, that is)!:spank:

*is* gay. Experimentation and such.

because you can find another study (hell, you can find ten studies) that contradict it. None of them are worth the paper they have been printed on...

subjectProdigal

Cultural conservatives claim under 5%. It fits their politics nicely to make 3% of America gay and lesbian. Bisexuality is never addressed. Lesbians who have had sex with men (i.e. MOST LESBIANS) are discounted, etc.

Even at 4% there are as many gays as Jews in America.

they love to point out that 10% is over stated.

just wondering how many people are willing to admit things like that in studies?

studies that have the numbers you like while ignoring those that don't have them...which method is better, i wonder...

subjectProdigal

and he used unusual populations in his studies. The 6% figure is the figure the Clinton campaign used.

I always sucked at math!

to refer to the gayness quotient ;-)

sujectProdigal

A very pretty one!

Studies have found that, for men, the chance of being gay is correlated with birth order. In fact, the chance of a given male child being gay goes up exponentially the farther along in the birth order the child is. (This only applies to how many older brothers a man has, older sisters don't count). Every older brother a man has increases the chances that he will be homosexual by 33% or more. This effect holds true even after statistically controlling for the age of parents, size of family in general and other possible confounds. (Citation: Blanchard & Bogaert, 1996, but this effect is well-documented in a number of other studies as well). It has been hypothesized that this effect is due to hormonal changes in the mother through successive pregnancies, and the evolutionary theorists speculate that it is some kind of beneficial genetic adaptation in our species.

I don't know how many boys this fundie mother has cranked out, but if it's more than 4-5, it's extremely likely that one of the younger sons is gay. Maybe somebody should write her a letter and let her know about this little biological oddity...:evilgrin:

experimentation with older brothers? Or that would pretty much buy into the nurture rather than nature issue.

I have a friend at church who has five boys and one girl. All the boys are gay. The girl is not. The only unusual family situation is that the mother was a very serious alcoholic for years. The father is kind of androgynous.

But then again, I'm really not an expert on this one. I just happen to know about it and have read a few journal articles on the subject. The articles I have read discuss the relationship between homosexuality birth order effects and feminizing hormones, so maybe that's the explanation for the family you know (you said the father was kind of androgynous).

He describes taking estrogen for the first time and how it totally turned him upside down. He began to have fears about things he never feared before, etc. All things we recognize as "female."

It's GOT to be biological.

Can you post a link or a title? Thanks!

It was called "She's Not There."

Here is the Amazon link.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076791404X/002-6550234-0019201?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance

If 5% are gay, then there's a (.95)^16 chance, or a 44% chance, that no children are gay.

In the sexual sense that is, since that's what your post is about?

And, why should I care if one or more of the 16 children are gay?

Gay also means exciting and colourful.

I'm not going to make judgements on people I don't know.

...to gain their parents approval. I have an uncle who is clearly gay, but joined the priesthood in an effort to avoid marriage (my theory) and in the process became a hero to his parents. (My Grandma thinks that having a son who is a priest guarantees her a place in heaven!) I can see kids raised in this fundie family putting their own needs aside to please their folks and follow the path that is expected of them.

I can't imagine all sixteen putting up with this cookie cutter mold. I imagine there are a few who want to break-out, and maybe at least one who is gay.

http://www.jimbob.info/faq.html

here are a couple choice quotes: "Child Training Tip-With 6 little boys age 5 and under we’ve enjoyed much more peace, harmony, & order in our home since a friend shared with us about ‘blanket time’. We began this training four years ago, when our second set of twins were 17 months old. They started learning self-control & obedience by sitting quietly on a blanket playing with a few toys. The key words are ‘sit’ & ‘quiet’! At first, we practiced 5 minutes, 2-3 times a day, & worked up to 10-20 minutes at a time..."

"Our daily routine begins with personal hygiene (get dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, etc…). Each older child has a younger buddy or two that they help. We eat breakfast & read Proverbs at 8:00a.m., then we ‘quick clean’ the house (older child & their buddy work together to clean their jurisdictions). Throughout the day we try to pickup as we go along, but naturally things tend toward disorder. So, it is a constant training process with ‘quick clean’ times throughout the day. At 9:00a.m., the older children help their buddies with their studies in phonics, math, violin & piano (J-O-Y- Jesus first, Others second, & Yourself last!)."

ok, can you IMAGINE living in this sort of oppressive environment? 24/7 ? and what sort of notions are being forced into your head? for example, body image. check this out. this is one of their 'favorite sites' is: http://www.wholesomewear.com/ basically, its a site featuring 'modest' (read: victorian) swimwear. no fooling. what stunningly sheltered lives these kids are living. really, its scary.

ok, now imagine if one of 'em is ALSO struggling with the realization that they are gay?

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

And that is if only half are old enough to take lessons.

:yoiks: