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Ed Schultz talkin Biodiesel EVERYONE SHOULD HEAR THIS!!!

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leftupnorth Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:14 PM
Original message
Ed Schultz talkin Biodiesel EVERYONE SHOULD HEAR THIS!!!
biodiesel IS the future of transportation fuels, this could save us from sooooo much trouble
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astonamous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's what Willy Nelson has been saying for years!
From my understanding - and I am not able to listen to Ed Schultz - it is cheap, renewable, biodegradable and the current diesel engine doesn't have to be retrofitted.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Biodiesel is great, but it won't allow us to continue our lifestyles
I wish every vehicle was using biodiesel, but that won't be possible.

While we have plenty of cheap gas we can afford to make biodiesel. Once the cheap gas goes away, biodiesel can be still be made, but in greatly reduced quantities.

Without cheap gas we can't get the same crop output as our crops require petroleum inputs. (Petroleum inputs such as pesticide and fertilizers allow us to quadruple crop yields; without them the nearly sterile earth will fail to produce even a meager crop.) Without the requisite petrol input, crop yield decreases significantly, requiring more arable land. And the first priority is growing crops for food, not fuel. To require crops to also supply fuel you will have greatly expand the areas being farmed. This is not possible.

Now if all biodiesel production was accomplished with no other energy inputs except biodiesel, it would be encouraging. Unfortunately no "green" power source can even start to produce itself (ie, no solar cells are manufactured using just power from solar cells).
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. If all personal vehicles got at least 100 mpg
We'd need a hell of a lot less biodiesel than we would if driving today's gas sucking behemoths...

Conservation and energy efficiency HAS to be a large part of future technology design, no matter what else we do.

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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Agreed.
Simply raising CAFE standards could remove our dependency on foreign oil, too, but there is no chance that will happen under the current administration.

But if we don't start NOW, there won't be enough energy left to generate the biodiesel we need.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. We don't need petroleum inputs for farming.
In fact, it is because of the use of these pesticides and fertilizers that the soil has lost its natural ability to sustain crops. Crop rotation, natural fertilizers and organic pest control can be used effectively and affordably if agribusiness monopolies are broken and the farmland is rejuvinated, without the necessity of the amount of land you suggest. This is a matter of priorities and profit, and we merely have to take a stand against those who are creating the current farming environment.

Another simple solution is hemp. Great biomass, takes little land, and wouldn't be taking food away from our necessary supply. If we can't convince our own government to allow it to be grown, I guarantee our neighbors will.
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leftupnorth Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. great post!
you know what you're talking about unlike some people here.....

it's true that we do not need any petroleum inputs. biodiesel has a positive energy balance of 3.20:1. gasoline has a negative balance of .85:1. petro diesel i belive is .75:1. with an energy ratio of less than one, it means you are putting more energy in than you get out, with biodiesel you get 3.2 times as much energy out of it as you put in, including ALL production energy. Biobased energy is Nature's solar panel, and she can do it a whole lot better than we can!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Yep
I think it would be a good response to oil. I'm sure it's cleaner too in the air.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's a step towards independence from imported dinofuel, but it's
not a panacea
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. We need a LOT more energy that we can get from biodiesel alone
For heating our houses, and lighting our lights, we're going to need something else. But for transportation purposes, you can't beat the easy handling of liquid fuels.

There are no panaceas. But there are solutions.

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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. YES!
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leftupnorth Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Absolutely not a panacea
but a combination of wind, solar, tidal, biomass, biofuels, and hybridization of our vehicles - I LOVE the concept of diesel/electric hybrids tooling around on wind gen electricity and biodiesel. all while getting 100mpg easily.

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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Since DU no longer links..do you have one? I never saved..
depended on DU..all these years!
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leftupnorth Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. here
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Woody Harrelson was talking this up on Letterman's show last night.
You don't have to retro-fit your diesel engine to use bio-diesel, he said.

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McKenzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. it has limited potential until oil becomes really scarce
Production of the vegetable material required for the production of biodiesel is heavily dependent upon the application of petrochemical-derived fertilisers and pesticides. Once oil becomes really scarce food production will be a priority so there will have to be a choice between food production and using land for production of transportation fuel raw materials. And, the land required for manufacture of the raw material for biodiesel, as well as food, will also be less productive than it was when petrochemical products were available. Doesn't look good viewed that way.

Biodiesel might offer some respite but it is in NO way the fuel of the future. Otherwise, Matt Simmons et al would not be desperately trying to get governments to wake up and do something about Peak Oil.

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leftupnorth Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. umm, excuse me but..
what kind of pesticides and fertilizers did we use BEFORE we discovered we could make anything from the Devil's tea?
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