Does anyone know what would pass as a WIN in Iraq?

Establishment of more-of-less secular government that adheres to the rule of law, a government led by a democratically minded strongman, with respect for different ethnic and religious groups (but not balkanized into these factions), with a growing middle class. The Iraqi people putting this nightmare of the last 30 years behind them, the isolation of the insurgents, and a people beholden to neither the religious fanatics of Iran, nor its corrupt, anti-democratic Arab League neighbors.

Iraq as it was before the dark times of the last 30 years when it was a leader of the Arab World: culturally, economically, politically. Iraq as something none of its neighbors are: a country whose people rule, not the dictators - of peace, order and good government.

That's a WIN.

all else is dust and regrets.

There are examples of leaders who, while having an authoritarian streak, did guide their nations to a more liberal and progressive model.

In Russia I think it was Boris Yeltsin. I wish Musherrif (sp) in Pakistan would evolve into this role. As for Iraq, we might yet see Iyad Allawi fill this role.

fied?

Why should I? Do you think that "WIN" scenario will come about?

I just answered a question.

thousands more U.S. soldier's lives and tens of thousands more Iraqi lives taken by our soldiers, to achieve.

But I think the U.S. will continue its "mission" in Iraq for some time. There is not much we can do, until the next congressional elections and the 2008 election - running on a platform of quick withdrawal.

Your win might happen after 50-60 years have gone by. In the meantime, there is no winning.

selves. .... since there is only ONE active battalion, long time...

to your site, it's VERY good.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/

not leaving.

amicably (neither of which are happening now, nor look likely to happen). They cannot be on the verge of, or already, taking their differences out in militia/terrorist actions against each other's communities and locking each other out of their legal and governmental institutions. The insurgencies' (plural) actions against US forces (and I almost said "against coalition forces", what a larf!) must be quelled completely and the populations that fuel them pacified.
The delicately balanced government has to be able to deny all of its territory (that is to say, the whole of the country) from control by guerrilla insurrectionary groups (which it's nowhere near to doing since guerrilla insurrectionary groups seem to penetrate its security forces under training at will, leading to the celebrated negative progress on the Level One Readiness score for the new Iraqi Army).

We have to be able to leave the country with domestic differences which are currently breaking out in civil war all settled, or reasonably certain to be settled quickly and amicably based on the available signs. We have to be able to leave behind a functioning democratic state that undergirds the aforementioned domestic tranquility, without rancorous accusations of systemic disenfranchisement of one (or more) group. We have to leave behind a state that can defend itself from outside and enforce its own laws inside. We have to be sure that the state we leave behind is not joining with our enemies in Iran or Syria (hey, I don't make these definitions up--the people who brought you the war label these other countries members of the "Axis of Eeevul"). Unfortunately it seems the best we can look forward to from a strong Iraq is a good ally of Revolutionary Iran. We have to palliate the humanitarian disaster wrought by twelve years of trade sanctions and war.
Then we would have a "win" and could go home with a win notched in our belt.

Ahem. Short of God making a loaner of his Omnipotence to the Bushler Administration, none of these goals will be met.

and say thanks for the Shock and Awe. :shrug:

Oh, wait, that would only be a "win"
for 100,000 dead civilians...

If you meant a "win" for us,
it's not gonna be as big a deal.

All we can do is GET THE HELL OUT;
that would be a "win" for all our troops
that are going to be maimed or DIE next month,
and the month after that,
and the month after THAT...