Are modern Americans a rude, boorish lot? (AP poll)

:)

btw, go Cheney yourself :-)

on the other point...I wish that were feasible.

no matter when you held it.

Manners are ALWAYS worse than they used to be.

What was considered good manners just one generation ago is largely outdated. Manners evolve as we do because they are simply a consentual behavior pattern. As very few Americans eat multiple course meals, it is no longer important to the majority of us to eighteen pieces of silverware at a table setting. That doesn't mean it's impolite to only offer a single fork at dinner, it means that our situation has changed, and that our expectations have as well. In fact, we have created new rules for manners. For example, look at online discussion boards such as this one. IF WE POST IN ALL CAPS, IT IMPLIES WE ARE "YELLING." We know that this is inappropriate if we are, say, consoling someone who just lost a family member, because it may change the interpreted meaning of our post to ridicule instead of sympathy.

Manners were designed as a set of rules to put strangers at ease, not as a set of compulsory hoop through which we must jump to gain approval from others, and that's part of the problem. Manners aren't a form of punishment, though they are presented as such by most parents. It is also wrong to think manners must be adhered to as written centuries ago in order for behavior to be acceptable, because that runs contrary to their original purpose.

because I don't know how many times people shoved ahead of me in line in Italy, or servers were curt. But of course... in the US, lines are *sacred* -- you just don't mess with the line -- and it's de rigeur here that someone serving you plaster a fake smile on their face. But because people don't observe the same arbitrary rules as you do, doesn't mean they're inherently ruder.

Anyway: yeah. Manners are contextual and totally relative.

Quit acting as if this is a new phenomenon. Check out some of that footage from the civil rights era... there's all kind of congenial behavior there :sarcasm:

Anyone want to discuss World War I and II?

All humans possess the same frailties. It's as irrational to generalize about Americans as it is to generalize about any other group of people.

is that we are no ruder now than we ever were.

:mad:

My point is that we have never been "rude" in any universal way. What constitutes "rude" depends upon the culture from you which you derive. There are things that some of my British friends do, for instance, that I find very rude. However, I know it's a difference of cultural influences. There is no such thing as a perfect culture.

I agree with you, I just get annoyed with these so-called studies that claim things are worse these days, when in many cases they aren't. You know what I'm saying?

but what do I know.

People were much more civil when blacks knew their place, women were purely baby machines, and Herbert Hoover told you what you could and couldn't say.

This is just propaganda.

I work with the immigrant community, mostly from Latin and South America. I have found them to be extremely nice and friendly. Also, very hard working and determined to get ahead. I am ashamed of my countrymen and women for the way we act, compared to these people who come here with only the shirts on their backs.

One group is from AFghanistan and they bring US food (we supply English lessons), sharing their family food. It is so lovely. The women kiss their female tutors on the cheek and embrace them.

I wonder sometimes why we can't be better. Our lives are so much better than theirs materially. Yet they can be decent and wonderful.

It's sad.

And there in is part of the problem. We value things more than people.

but yes, more rude than in the past.

The "Ugly American" stereotype exists for a reason (FREEPERS!).

Remember that RUDE-ass woman in "Fahrenheit 911?" Lila Lipscomb was a grieving mom. And look at how she was treated. Cindy Sheehan is called a "clown."

Remember the purple heart bandaids at the RNC convention? Mocking the sacrifices of a purple heart vet!

Remember Bush's mocking of a woman on DEATH ROW: "Please don't kill me," he mocked. And who can forget the "asshole....big time" exchange between Bunnypants and Darth Vader.

To be fair, the "limousine/latte liberal" is more snooty than obnoxious. But BOTH stereotypes project elements of rudeness.

When they see someone who conforms to it, then they say "see, that's an American".

I'm also an American, I was raised to speak softly, read a lot of big books, and always say please and thank you.

That said, a lot of "obnoxious" people have positive qualities I don't have. We all fall short of perfection...every single one of us from every country.

When I've been abroad, I surprise people because I don't act like the "typical" American (and I was raised in Texas, which has its own stereotypes. I'm also a member of a minority group, but unlike here, that doesn't matter to people abroad. American is American.) That led me to think that they are LOOKING to see if people are going to fit the "rude, obnoxious" stereotype. If I don't fit the stereotype, it doesn't make me any less American, but it temporarily confuses them.....and yields to surprised relief.

I encounter that frequently. I'm 1/4 Cherokee, but I am mainly and present as basic redneck. I try very hard to be polite and thoughtful (sometimes in the face of non-American non-civility). At some point, after exception and exception and exception, the "rule" must be questioned. I think the French study fairly put the lie to the myth of the rude American (in essence, a given array of behavior was publicly displayed by a group of young people in various national dress -- the only time the surrounding Europeans found them "rude and vulgar" was when they were dressed as Americans, even though their behavior had been identical in all instances).

among all ages. I've also noticed that "Have a good one" has replaced thank you by clerks at stores I shop at. :wtf: If I were a manager, that would be a write up offense. You should always thank your customers. But then, I'm on the verge of being an old fogey.

People are doing & saying things that they never would have in the past. I think it started with Limbaugh & FOX News. People in the conservative media are so rude that others think it's okay to be rude to others. And the sleazy talk shows (like Jerry Springer) haven't helped. I think that once the neocons are gone, we should introduce a "new" idea: politeness. Hey, it works for Japan!

Tammy

I've already posted about the French story a thousand times - Americans are no more "boorish" or "rude" than any other group of people. You cannot generalize about 300 million people from vastly different cultures without a high likelihood of being incorrect.

because I believe it's largely a side effect of technological advances.

It's easier to be rude on the phone when you can't see the person. It's even easier to be rude online when you can't see or hear others.

It's easier to be rude when technology makes you feel autonomous, e.g. alone in your one-ton vehicle vs. with others on a train that you can't control.

Technology gives the individual more power but also more responsibilities, e.g. once officer workers get computers, secretaries disappear for all but the top tier employees. More responsibilities give us less time, so we're less patient about delays. Combined with a sense of autonomy, it's inevitable that people become more brusque.

It makes me sad, actually. Being crude and rude is socially acceptable and probably desirable if you see what passes for entertainment now. My manners are still intact. I hold doors for folks, I say please and thank you, I offer to help those in need that I encounter thru the day, and try to model kind behavior when I drive (I really do!). I figure if I let someone in traffic, or use my turn signal in a way that benefits someone else, then perhaps they will return the favor to someone else. As long as we're all along for the same ride, might as well make it as pleasant as possible for everyone.

But it's a great lead-in to a funny passage I came across in a book written by a former captain of industry, John Harvey-Jones.

It's a great example of, "With Americans, what you see is what get!" Non nonsense. Tell it like it is! Absolutely hilarious! And, apparently, you share that forthrightness with the Russians.

Harvey-Jones was acting as an interpreter for his company.

"The interpeting was sequential and formal. We were obliged to interpret from our native tongue into the language concerned, and everything was repeated in English, Russian and French. I was struck with terror, since my Russian vocabulary, while exemplary on maritime matters (ex naval ossifer), extended little further than, 'cow', 'milk' and 'bull', which I didn't feel was quite adequate for the occasion. I need not have worried. The meeting opened in fine form, with the American Chairman outlining a bewildering series of statistics about some abstract point of milk production. This was interpreted impeccably (since the American interpreters had the advantage of speaking all three languages fluently). The Russian replied. Russian are robust and tend to avoid circumlocution; he therefore said the figures were wrong and the American was a liar. I waited with baited breath for this statement to be interpeted in some tactful way, such as, 'Could you please check your figures, since mine are at variance with yours'. But no. The interpreter stood stolidly there and interpreted verbatim. Uproar. The end of the meeting, and a day off for Harvey-Jonesuninspiring task in any event".

Wonderful stuff!

they are so mannerly, articulate, well groomed, happy. VERY different from the states now.

We're all humans. We make equal mistakes. To think otherwise leads to stereotype which always leads to bigotry.

entitled to it. but i still say they're wonderful. have you lived here?

I've been there, enough to form an opinion.

What equalizes us is the fact we're all human - we share the same foibles, we just express them in different ways.

53 years (except two in caracas). i agree we are all equal as humans and we do share the same foibles. i guess i have more of an affinity for the way they express or don't express those foibles here.

at the same time, sometimes i get so homesick for the ol' u.s. - wv in particular. when our time here is up, i just hope the u.s. is still standing in some respectable form or other to return to.....

Not serious. But that is a common stereotype. They do not have "southern hospitality".

Whenever I've encountered New Yorkers, once you get past the pugnaciousness, they tend to be very friendly, warm people.

There is always a positive attribute to any negative component of personality.

:silly:

without question.

why it's rude to wear flip-flops - at the White House, even.

Coincidentally, last night I dreamt I traveled with some colleagues to meet with a client (about whom I have some issues). Through a series of events that I blamed on my colleagues, I ended up wandering around this client's building wearing flip-flops, wondering if I should go into the meeting. I knew I shouldn't be wearing flip-flops, but it didn't occur to me that it would be rude.