Just curious - what constitutes (to you) a McMansion?

I was reading a thread on same and I just got curious - what do DU folks think is a large house?

Putting aside McMansions (defined here as: houses of 5000 s.f. +/- on very small lots of 1/3 acre or so) for the moment what does everyone think of as big? And what constitutes "too much?"

I am renovating a home in New England now - it will be about 5800 s.f. when it's done, with additional barn space that if finished would yield about another 2000 s.f.

Here's the thing - we'll fill up the 5800 s.f., and I don't think we have an unusual amount of stuff - but obviously we do!

So, can you be liberal and still have a big house? :)

BTW, it is radiant heated, and there is a chance we will couple it to solar - we can't do geo-thermal because of the cold winters. Also, a good part of it will be heated with wood - and anyone who has owned a good wood stove knows how much heat they can crank out.

(mods - move if this should be somewhere else)

These have 2-3' front lawns and driveways. Orange County Ca has zillions of these.

Is that OK? :) :)

I have a tiny house but my whole first floor is a "great room"

I don't have any walls so what the hell else can I call it?

It was built during the depression and used to have like 6 rooms where there is now one lol

my whole house and garage would fit in your barn space

to me, that's big. I'm not faulting you for it, there is a reason you need that much space, and you're willing to do it with renewable energy, more power to ya...

I grew up in a 900 s.f. house. Four people.

There are two of us.

And two (outside) dogs.


<ducking>

I just want to be the first in line at your next garage sale! :)

:) :)

Just more room for when DUers visit. :P

The house has a great mountain view, Dan and Kate (the Newfie dogs) love company, and if it's autumn we all get to drink hot apple cider and eat early Mac apples, which as everyone knows are the absolute best.

I'll keep you posted... :)

lucky dog, no pun intended. We had one years ago; she was a love.
RE: your house, all I want to know is who does the cleaning? That's hugh!:)

Yes, the Newfies (they are Newfie mixes) are a joy.

We haven't quite figured out the whole cleaning thing yet, but since the house won't be done for a while yet we got time. :)

Four people, two bedrooms, one bath.

I was 15 before I got my own room.

We are in Texas, but same/same. I don't think its too big and am planning such a place in NM for early retirement.

Not only can you be "liberal" and have a large place... but, shock, you can also be part of the "investor" class.... go figure.

MZr7

A large but shoddlily-built house on a cul-de-sac in a planned suburb, on a smallish lot with little scrubby trees and no sidewalks. The style is faux-French villa, or maybe faux-colonial with big, pretentious two-story pillars in front. It has a three-car garage, and perhaps a swimming pool that takes up the entire back yard. And the people who live there are spending so much on their mortgage and utilities that they can't afford furniture.

"Here's the thing - we'll fill up the 5800 s.f., and I don't think we have an unusual amount of stuff - but obviously we do!"

What do you have that would fill 5,800 sf? I would regard that much room as unnecessary cleaning to be done.

So we have two offices.

I used to work in high end audio, so we have a lot of stereo equipment.

The rest, I guess, is just, well, stuff. Bedroom furniture, dining room furniture, etc.

I build furntiure for a living, so the whole barn is my workshop.

in high-end audio, he would salivate. Excessively! Poor guy, our little ~1000 sq.ft house just doesn't have enough room for all the gear he wants to bring home from the shop and try out!

The heating/cleaning thing would be an issue for me. Although I'd love to have more room for more animals. This is an older place, yeah?

It statrted out as a little second-floor walk up "factory" in New Haven, CT - the amps were so expensive that only wealthy folks could afford them.

I remember hand-wiring a stereo amp when I get a tap on the shoulder, and someone says "nice job, young fellow."

I turned around, and it was Jack Webb, of "Dragnet" fame. Even in real life, he looked just like Joe Friday. :)

(the house was built in 1986, so it's not really old)

My husband designed a piece of furniture out of steel, graghite and oak for it. It is a focus in our living room (which is 22 X 44) but sparsely furnished.

Must be:

Like 4,000sq ft;

Shoddily constructed (though most American houses are, especially these days);

Ornate brick front with cheap siding back and maybe sides, too;

Made up of a total mishmash of architectural styles;

Be about 3 feet from the houses on either side;

Have a 30-foot-tall entrance stoop with a huge window;

Have unecessarily tall ceilings throughout and lots of overlooks and sloped ceilings inside;

Be massively overpriced for what it is.

In Virginia (and I am sure elsewhere) you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one of them.

The funny thing is, the people that buy them think that just because the houses in Phase 3 of their development are going for 75K more than they paid for theirs, they think they're sitting on a goldmine!

I want to tell them the old real estate adage - never buy the first house in a development, unless you plan to stay there forever.

Most Americans seem to aspire to this:

(currently for sale in Plano, Texas for $1,050,000)


Whereas, in the UK, where I've just got back from spending four years, the average 'suburban house' is this:

(currently for sale at about $610,000)

The average post-1960 English suburban house looks like this:


And the most vulgar of the new American-style, zoned residential developments in the UK looks about like this:

(currently for sale at about $785,000 - no sh*t)

But, now I am back in the USA, I aspire to this:

Cuz their owners aspired back in the 90's when Collin County thrived under a Dem prez...then comes along the chimp regime/outsourcing and Plano's McMansion folks lost their jobs and soon after, their houses. Lots of Mcmansions on the county's monthly foreclosure lists.

Yet the county still went 75% repuke in 2004.

We hardly ever get over a couple of inches of snow, and most winters none at all, around here, but so many of that type of house has a steep pitch roof to shed snow that we don't get. And they all have black shingles that absorb heat that takes extra A/C to cool the house down. White shingles around here are more energy efficient.

Those type of homes are very popular in Plano, TX, so my wife and I refer to them as the "Plano style" as a derogatory term.

I hate that style.

If you build an 12:12 pitch roof using trusses with large open areas in the middle of them, you can sell what used to be called an "attic" as an "unfinished bonus room." No one around here uses dormers, no one uses gable windows, they just sell this crappy little attic as a bonus room and people think it's so great.

And then they put black shingles on them, so anyone who actually tries to use the bonus room gets to roast.

That ranks right up there with finishing off the basements and selling them as "game rooms" or "family entertainment" centers.

Only after the new owners get settled do they realize they now have no place for storing anything, save for the pitiful 8x10 spot the builder has graciously left for them -in the "mechanical room."

This is why you see so many McMansions with storage sheds out back - so the next time you wonder "why does a house that size need that storage building" well, now you know. :)

(oh, it's probably big enough for the $15K Kubota that they bought to mow their 1/3 acre lot, but that's another story...)

As many eaves as possible;

ridiculously high pitch roof.

wannabes, wall to wall house filling up the lot in high and low income areas. They'd be at home on a multi acre estate, but they shoehorn them into a 50x150 lot, ruining the affordable housing status. 3 or 4 imported laborers knock these monstrosities together with chip board and staples in about a month with a dazzling array of chandeliers for a front porch light and a stretch Mercedez in the driveway.

Goldurn furriners.x( Hmph.

50x150 lots were not meant to have 3 story castles with circular drives built on them.

between the trailer, the shed, the driveway and the sidewalk, I still have a small private back yard and a small front yard. My trailer is 28 x 48. I would hate having a huge house and no yard. If the next house is going to be so close to me, I might as well just live in the trailer park anyway!

Just wondering...

http://www.betterbuildings.ca/content/page.asp?a=143&zid=102

...?

I didn't think it was an issue (predicated on what they're doing in Canada), but folks I trust are adamant in saying that geo-thermal gives you about 30 degrees more than conventional heat pumps, and those things are useless from 35 degrees down.

And over 5000 sq foot is too big.

Sound perfect for us! and we're liberal...
and in New England (Maine to be exact). Hope we can find a place like that when we are looking to buy. My husband and I have three boys and plan on having dogs. We have a wood stove, but it's not hooked up right now. I know, I know, but we are renting. At least we have it for the future. I grew up with one and you can't beat them! Good luck with the renovations. If you ever have a get together, don't forget us!

To me, a McMansion is oversized for its lot and shoddily constructed.

I cannot imagine 5800 sq feet. :shrug: It'd be huge to me - we live in 2200 sq feet and may eventually expand it to a whopping 2500 sq feet.

I just cannot imagine cleaning that big of a house, or keeping enough furniture for that much space. But I suppose if you make furniture for a living, you'd probably have plenty of it. :)

I'm jealous of the radiant heating.

Radiant heat was in its infancy back then, and the house has 22(!) zones for heat.

Nowadays, folks have figured out how to do multiple returns, so of course that many aren't needed, but it is quite something to look at. The piping is all copper, and the diameter of some of the pipes is 1". First thing the plumbers say is "what are you going to do with all that copper' - a couple even offered to barter out their servixes in return for the pipes.

It turns out, though, that we should be able to re-use a lot of it, even if we only have three zones, which is the plan.

In Sacramento they tend to resemble beige stucco monstrocities that look like the mishapen children of several archtectural styles, and generally come with a garage large enough to house the residents comfortably. The residents generally use these homes as half-million dollar mailboxes and storage lockers, as they never seeem to be home.

I grew up in a 1400 sq ft home built in a Sacramento suburb in 1974. It was a bit too big for our family of three but now you can't find a new home anywhere near that small around here except in senior developments.

Size and scale to surrounding buildings and terrain; quality of the building materials; presence of anything that might evne slightly qualify to be called a "Hummer" (and I'm not talking sex, so please, no complaints to the moderators).

Five thousand square feet is a McMansion. The energy cost of heating and cooling it is SUV vs. Prius.

I however, live in the suburbs, and I am not therefore environmentally pristine myself. The urban lifestyle is the most environmental, bar none.

In the case of the McMansion as defined by others here (cheap construction, etc.) then most definitely, as NO consideration is placed on efficiency.

If, however, you design a 5000 s.f. house "into the landscape", site it correctly, and make use of energy-efficient heating/cooling you can do it on a par with homes half the size.

compared to a Hummer. But it is still an SUV and you still can do better.

I note that there is a substantial, if hidden, cost of energy-efficient heating and cooling. All that "efficient" stuff has to manufactured, trucked, installed, etc, etc.

Trees are cut for lumber.

Solvents are evaporated for paint.

Productive Land is paved and covered with structures.

Metals are mined, refined and reduced for wiring and piping.

Asphalt is distributed for roofing and driveways.

There is an old environmental aphorism, not seen much these days - and I will confess to not living up to it as much as I should - that says "Live simply so that others may simply live."

I don't know where the line is, and I live much, much, much better than 95% of the people on the planet but we all need to think more seriously about how we might live more simply. I know I do.

I recall reading the autobiography of one of my heros, Andrei Sakharov, who grew up in a tiny two room apartment, less than 100 square meters, sharing it with neighbors and his whole family and still Sakharov saw further than most people can even dream of seeing. I remember that when I read it in my comfortable suburban bedroom, I couldn't imagine how he did it, but he grew into a man who could change the world with sheer integrity. So it is with Mandela, who lived in a tiny cell.

We need much less than we think we do, and I think the citizens of the newly impoverished nation, the United States, will soon find this out, whether they want to do so or not.

12 rooms total. The square footage isn't as much as yours, but it's still big. My family bought it over 50 years ago and it's were I grew up. It's way too big for me, but I can't tell you how much I love it. From the old wallpaper to the oak woodwork to the leaky windows, it just means the world to me. Since I moved back two years ago, there hasn't been a day when I haven't said to myself, "Damn, I love this place!"

If that means I'm not liberal, then so be it.

But it would look kind of silly, what with the barn attached and all.

That said, I love Victorians. Is yours painted in the "Painted Lady" style by any chance?

It's actually a Colonial Revival style of Victorian. I'd like to paint it an olive green, which it was originally.

I kid you not.

feet from the property line on all sides. And it could use a palladium window or two, but you have the right idea. And if they're anything like they build them here, it will have a brick front and vinyl siding for the rest of the house.

I've never seen one with that much yard unless it's the 'model' home.

It's "Palladian", not palladium - after the Italian architect Palladio.

I see this mistake in zillions of real estate ads.

-------

My town has no McMansions. But it sure has "McPalaces". Huuuuuuuuge monstrosities, with three and four car garages that are bigger than my entire house (the garages, that is). The only saving grace is that my town is heavily wooded and requires an acre lot for building.

That is not a mismash of styles. It is a traditional style home, and in fact, that style is the most popular with most homebuyers. That house has a gorgeous lawn, it is not built to the lot line and isnot tacky in the least. Do some people here have square foot envy or something? Cuz that house isn't offensive in the least.

First of all it's not a traditional home style. It's a home style that's only existed for about ten years or so. Maybe fifteen. Hardly traditional. Secondly I've never seen one with so much yard. Usually about 15-20 feet to the sidewalk, most of it non-grass landscaping. Then picture the exact same house, or essentially the same house, times 100 with maybe 5-10 feet separating the houses from each other.

Sure not unlike old city neighborhoods with the same house close together time and again...but these are put together usually very shoddily based on templates, and slapped up quick in new developments.

The picture is just a taste, but they nearly never have that amount of yard.

And it isn't a square foot thing. It's a 'every house is exactly the same' thing. I hate driving around those developments. It's like you're inside a ragged 3-D jiggsaw puzzle.

Did you get your door yet?

Got a development(gated) in what used to be the wooded area behind me. Houses all look alike, are 5000sf or larger, brass deer statues instead of the real thing, cement ponds where the real ponds used to be and after 2 years they are falling apart. Seems the contractors forgot to do a geological survey. It is sad, sort of, to watch them all sag in different directions. Those are McMansions to me.

I am in 5000sf but here they are not terribly expensive compared to other areas. It did have a geo report, thankfully. There were 4 of us, it was built for 2 but there was surely enough room to convert it for 4. Now there are only 2 but it is full.

Edit you might want to check on that geo thermal. We are going to put it in in the new house and -20 was the base temp they used for us. We are sinking in the pond, don't know if that makes any difference or not. It will certainly be worth it here. Pays for itself in about 6 years.

Does that count?

(we're down to one now, if you don't include the sliders) :)

Ask the Kennedys. They probably know. ;-)

I'm not a good one to ask about McMansions - My husband and I live in a 924 sf mobile home. I have never lived in a really big home and I don't want to - I don't much like house cleaning and I never liked the idea of hired help, even if I could afford it.

and the Feinsteins... there are Democrats among the millionaires in Congress

I find most liberals care about their fellow man, show concern to those most vulnerable in society, and care about the welfare of society as a whole, not just themselves or immediate friends and family.

I think most liberals tend to be well-read and well-rounded, too.

So no, I don't think wealth or big houses can disqualify you from being liberal.

I believe it is an issue of scale and context, not necessarily size. My husband is an architect and serves on an architectural review board for our city (13,000 old inner ring suburb surrounded by Columbus, OH,

I went to city council and fought to get a demolition ordinance passed. Not every house is worthy of saving, but I believe authenticity adds to the character and charm of a neighborhood. A Mc Mansion attempts to disney-fy a style of architecture in a grandiose scale which changes the character of the neighborhood.

Of course you can be liberal and have a big house. We have a 5,000 sf house (mid century designed by an apprentice of FLW who worked on Falling Water) Our house has been updated to be totally energy efficient (tankless water heater, hi eff zone heating, low e glass,) My husband practices green architecture, when possible. He is currently working on what will hopefully be the 1st LEED certified Childrens Hospital in the country. We consider ourselves good liberals.

We moved to this landlocked area for the schools and because it was considered the liberal bastion of the surrounding suburbs. I live in a smaller house in my neighborhood, but even among the larger homes, which most are not McMansions, there are many liberals.

over 50 to 70 years ago.

The McMansion concept is derived when they try to put a gigantic house on a lot that traditionally had smaller houses.

One of the big problems is that they like to "rake" the roofing so high that literal waterfalls fall on the smaller houses and the yards next to them. They build as near as possible to the lot lines (or beyond code for that sometimes). And we're talking 3 or 4 story structures here. Not the traditional small house that was on the lot.

If you want to put this structure up in the burbs, fine. It's not really a McMansion. But put it in my neighborhood that's trying to get some historic zoning restrictions, yes it is.

1 - the "media room" where Joe and Mary shit can pretend that they are Sam Goldwyn and have their plasma Tv lowered out of the ceiling so they can watch "Desparate Housewives" in their stadium lazy-boy boy seating.

2. The huge, over-sized God-awful pretentious bathrooms with their multi-person marble soaking tubs, quadruple head massaging shower faucets. The only thing missing is the closest for storing the palm fronds.

3. There is also a great penchant for columns, mostly indoors.

That house is bigger than all three houses on my side of the street I live on.

The three are practically identicial Victorian era "company homes" built by the owners of a lumber company for their employees/family.

My plot is the biggest of the 3 at just over 3000 sq feet. My house is 1100 square feet including the porch.

Most McMansions in my town in Massachusetts are newly built with the "open space" law requirement. That means you gotta build a new house on no less than 2 acres. Although the houses can get quite huge, they mostly look truly tiny on 2 acres of grass. The reason the houses are not as big as they could (or should) be on that land is that the land is too expensive in and of itself. I mean you fork over 250k for the land and then you gotta build a house? Ouch.

One of my favorite McMansion designs around these parts are the houses that look like they're 3 stories tall built into a hilly plot.

When you see the back of the house it turns out the entire first floor is the freaking garage! Who the hell are they kidding?

Several people have noted that that there are specific architectural features of McMansions in their area, and I think that both the size, and architecture, varies. The common denominators would be:

a) Larger size than reasonably needed. Anywhere from 3,000 sq/ft or above, depending on the location, number of residents, etc. A McMansion in the city would usually be smaller than one out in the country.
b) Fast-food architecture (the "Mc" part), that is to say, low quality materials or design, often repetitious, or lacking in individual character.

As far as "too much", I'd calculate a base of around 1,000 sq/ft to start, adding 500 sq/ft per additional person as a *very* comfortable amount of living space, but that's coming from a mindset of western semi-urban (Tucson, Portland) living.... and you also mentioned that both of you work out of your home, and that tends to suck up space as well.

"So, can you be liberal and still have a big house? :)"

If a friend, or stranger, in need, showed up on your doorstep, would you take them in, or would you think that there wasn't enough room for them? I think that's a bigger question than whether or not you decided to have a large space to live in. :)

there are resort type lots " on the water," and wooded lots too.

Some of the water front homes are four freaking stories high so no one else will ever see the water from anywhere behind it. These star at a cool 1 million. A starter home for whom? Who can afford this?Who are these people? Does anyone know?

Our zoning ho's agree to the destruction of every tree and natural feature- and the homes do encroach on the property line.

Also, McFamily, requires 3 to 4 kids, a golden retriever and a white or black Escalade.

in a Southern CA suburb. Note the pricetag. This home sold new for around $650K four years ago.

http://realtor.com/FindHome/HomeListing.asp?snum=5&locallnk=yes&frm=byzip&mnbed=0&mnbath=0&mnprice=1000000&mxprice=99999999&js=off&pgnum=1&fid=so&mnsqft=&mls=xmls&areaid=91377&typ=1%2C+2%2C+3%2C+4%2C+5%2C+6%2C+7&poe=realtor&zp=91377&sbint=&vtsort=&sid=05865F3D37DEC&snumxlid=1049790255&lnksrc=00002

-"In other words, exactly what they are"

Something I heard once at a dinner party

Now, I do think they all look alike and I have driven through neighborhoods and found myself wishing for a break from the monotony.


However, I don't like poking fun at anyone's dwellings - and there's a lot of pride tied up in home ownership. People take it very personal.

I'm happy for people who finally get their dream home - or first home - or any home in between - and I'm happy because they're happy.

They see their home as a reflection of their identity or what they want to be indentified as - so any less than complimentary remark about the house is seen as an attack on them as people.

If you say McMansions lack character - then they must lack character.
If you say they lack charm - same thing
Lack taste - same thing
Call them ugly or a blight on nature's landscape - well, that just hurts their feelings - you calling their baby ugly

I just want affordable housing for all - whether they rent or own. I also want people to be conscious of the environment and the needs of the world we live in - we don't exist in a world without other people (or critters - mustn't forget the critters).

I'm a liberal and I have a large-ish house. We use every square foot for our businesses, our music, our art, and our pets. Who are we to judge others by simply the size of their house? I don't think Al Gore, Bill Clinton, John Edwards, John Conyers, and others we admire, live in 1,200 square foot tract homes. It's irrelevant. And it's class warfare. We can be successful and productve and liberals. There is no poorness litmus test for us, is there?

The definition of McMansion, to me, has nothing to do soley with the size of a house. The term is used to describe a house that does not conform with the vibe of the neighborhood, is outsized in comparison to those around it, AND is built to the lot lines.. and usually features a very gaudy chandelier in the foyer.

for this discussion.

AND recommended.

No, ours is 1800 sq ft and a finished basement but was wondering about the Mc since, I think, it comes from McDonald and means, I think, sameness and lack of any interesting features..

And we concluded that McMansion has to be part of a "development" where many of them sprout within a few weeks, almost, on small lots with a lot of pillars and extra cement on the entry way.

It's more a style to me. Supersize, triple story, overpriced pre-fab suburban tract houses in new gated developments with multicar garages all facing the street. Made with the most expensive cheap siding money can buy, the kind that molds and makes the residents sick, with airtight plastic window treatments, wall-to-wall carpeting to hide the fact that only the baseboards are made of wood, fake manorial great rooms panelled with pressed wood and glue, all facade and no substance. So-called curb appeal. Beauty bark around the foundation. Rolled out turf lawns. Instant communities. Just water and put up for sale signs.

Essentially, a McMansion is a step up from a McTrailer. Just costs more.

Renovating an old home rarely turns it into a McMansion.

in every detail

it is usually starts with tearing down a modest sized, old bungalow. in a big city you can also turn an old house into a McMansion by putting a 4,000 sq ft addition on a 900 sq ft house. usually they just tear them down.
i have a down converted 2 flat with an (eternally almost) finished basement. 3600 sq ft. there is no amount of space adequate for me and my middle child. 4 kids left, (one finally left home) 4 dogs, 2 parrots, a flock of budgies, a micro-business. we are hoping to manage an addition that is energy producing. good south exposure, and some wind.

Thoose houses are so creepy, like they are built for aliens from outer space or something. I feel like I am entering another dimension when I go into those neighborhoods.

Kennedys sold their Palm Beach mansion...

In fact I'm envious. I live in a teeny weeny craftsman bungalow - very small but lots of nice features.

But that's appropriate to where I live. Yours is to where you live.

Only time house size ever irked me was when it was my sister in law who was ALWAYS ragging about other people being wasteful or "decadent" but then bought an enormous house for just the two of them.

Just one thing dude, couldn't you give me just a few square feet?

:) :)

Yes, this house sits on 42 acres, so it actually makes sense, scale-wise. Also, it was originally built for a family of 6, so it makes sense on that level as well.

However, lots of things about it make NO sense. The windows were all installed at a level that was comfortable for the original owner, who was 5'9". I am 6'1", so needless to say when I try and look out them all I see is window casing. The house has no front door, and it has two weird gables on both ends that are way too narrow for the scale of the rest of the house.

Seriously, it looks like something Gomez and Morticia Addams would call home.

I got LOTS of work to do - but I/we'll make it right.

It's the location, you see, it's the location. :)

n/t

First, McMansions are ALWAYS in developments. You'll never see one standing alone--if it's off by itself, it's just a big house.

Second, check the distance between houses. If the local fire code says the house must be no less than 10 feet from the one next to it, there's 10 feet one inch between houses.

Third, look at the windows. Vinyl windows with clear insulated glass in them do NOT belong in a $600,000 house.

Next, look at the roof. One of the local McMansion developers is building $500,000 houses with 20-year three-tab shingles on them. And I know they're 20-year three-tab shingles because he's getting them from me and I gotta special order them. The only way to pay less for shingles is to steal them from a jobsite.

If the $500,000 house has MDF moulding instead of actual wood, that's kind of a giveaway too. (MDF is made by mixing sawdust with glue, putting it into a hydraulic press and squishing the shit out of it. A pile of sawdust a foot deep becomes a quarter-inch of MDF.) We have LOTS of customers who come in because little Sally was rollerskating in the kitchen, ran into the wall and destroyed the chair rail. Guys, I didn't even know they MADE chair rail out of MDF until Numb Nuts Construction, Inc., started using it. I knew about baseboard and crown, but chair rail? Chair rail is intended to take abuse; why the hell do you want to hang sawdust there?

My personal pet peeve is expensive houses with Masonite siding on them. (Masonite siding is made by squishing the shit out of really heavily sap-infested wood.) My wife is in love with a neighborhood called Buckhead. It's one of the biggest McMansion tracts in the city, if not THE biggest. They don't let you in unless you can get $500,000 together, and every fucking one of those shitbox houses has this crap on it. They put this development in no more than 10 years ago, and already the cheap-ass siding they used is starting to rot.

Next stop: the insulation. Code in the state of North Carolina is R-30 ceiling, R-13 walls and R-19 floors. Until someone down here figured out that insulation helps with air conditioning bills, it was R-19/R-11/R-19. Hippie Jim the Insulation King sez R-49 ceiling/R-19 walls/R-30 floors is the bare minimum, and he'd be more than happy to sell you R-65 or more for your attic. Anyway...if you go up in the attic and there's 9.5 inches of insulation in there, you're dealing with a McMansion.

Interior amenities: Should a half-million buy you a laminate countertop and a vinyl floor in your kitchen? No, but I've seen it. I've also seen coil-top ranges, thermofoil cabinets, refrigerators with no icemakers (for five hundred grand I want to see either Jenn-Air, KitchenAid or LG appliances with stone countertops, or Miele or Bosch appliances with Corian countertops) and dishwashers with mechanical timers.

I would love to do a development. I'd put 50 houses on 50 acres. Say...oh, 3000sf, top of the line everything, lots of trees. Site it so that you had a 20-acre rock bed to store solar heat collected off everyone's roofs, and use that as primary heating.

Then I call it a "McMansion." There is a lot of construction near where I live; huge homes that are completely made of sheets of particleboard. My home, built in 1952, is only 1,100 square feet but it is made of cedar. I think it's built more solidly that a lot of these 5,000 square-foot particle-board homes.

Also, check out the inside. That tells a lot. The quality of the fixtures, the trim, the cement used, the craftsmanship that went into detail work. I've seen many homes priced higher than mine that have split/warped wood, cracked sidewalks and patios, misaligned fixtures, crappy-looking lights, faucets, tubs, tile, sinks, counter-tops, etc. But what do I know; I have just an 1,100 square-foot home built 50 years ago! ;)

In this SUV era of the past 15 years or so, not only builders, but automakers and consumer good manufacturers of all types have learned that there is no money to be made in basic models any more. The money is in oversized, high-end products with add-ons and upgrades.

For a small extra outlay in supply and labor, you can sell a larger product at a much higher price. By laying out a series of upgrades you can wring even more money out of the customer.

then it's a McMansion (Chicagoans, North Illinoisans and Suburbanites, agree/disagree?)

authenticity to an existing neighborhood.

It looks as if it's on some large estate....


When you see it in person nestled within an urban landsacpe it looks out of place....

700sqft on 15 acres out in the middle of nowhere. I live with my six indoor/outdoor dogs and two cats. Its plenty big enough for me right now and my property taxes are 390 bucks a year!
Its great having no payments and no worries. I am not out to keep up with the "Jones's" they are knutz!!!!!!

with lots of free range dogs! :) (right now only 1/2 acre + 2 dogs, but mature trees and landscape give a lot of privacy and room to run for d's.. )