Do you think that another US Civil War is imminent?

I'm getting that feeling, and I wonder if anyone else does. I'll hand over the floor to everyone else here... Please post your thoughts- when? Where? Why? How? will it all go down? Discuss.

those that say they believe another is coming are being silly at best..and dangerously unrealistic

it.

That or Bushevik Soviet-style iron boot tyranny, which is the only thing that can hold down those passions.

Which is what TIA and the unPATRIOT Act are for.

if drakness prevails in the 2004 election, there will possibly be a guerilla effort. More likely the guerilla effort will only occur in other nations as we walk over the rest of the planet to instill a corporate dictatorship.

A guerilla movement must move throught the population as a fish through water... Moa Tse Dung With a Bush approal rating at 55%, most of your water will be dry land. Add too that the fact that most liberals won't support a violent movement and you end up with a motley few rag-tag bomb throwers, like the late 60's early 70's radicals.

Guerillas need supplies. It is romantic fiction that the guerillas live & fight from captured government supplies. It just isn't real life. How would you fight an M1-A2 Abrams tank, or a helicopter, or a smart-bomb. And contrary to radical fantasy - those things WORK.

Where would you hide? Sure, a few individuals can hide very well as OBL & Saddam have proven, but as soon as you start trying to gather forces for an attack you would be spotted. The survelince abilities of the military are awesome.

It is a fantasy, and O'Rouke isn't here.

If bushco stays in office I can see people saying enough is enough.

Though I'd think there would be one eventually. At least, a civil war or, or a coup, a straight-out collapse. (Unless it turned out to be some combination of the above, of course.) On the other hand, one never knows... depending on how fast Bush & Pals manage to send things down the ol' toilet, people might get fed up pretty soon.

One thing's for certain, though... screwing the military folks serving in Iraq is a HUGE mistake on the administration's part. Badly-mistreated armies have a habit of turning on their leaders, and in doing so not only present them with an armed threat, but decrease the leaders' own ability to fight. If Bush, or whoever is in charge by that time, keeps heaping abuse on the soldiers, he may find them heading back to 'liberate' his ass out of office one day.

.....here, http://www.bbvreport.org :evilgrin:

E-mail bev@blackboxvoting.com for your enlistment papers. :)

And watch that SIR shite! :evilgrin:

That's the beauty of this 'war'. It won't be fought with muskets and cannon, rather with information, keyboards, pens and ballots! :)

The best part is that when we win we get a government that represents us rather than tell us what they think is best for us.

this was same thought that was in the 1900 to 1920 "progressive" movement - which through their "liberal" policies managed to avoid any real civil war.

If there is a surge upward in gun sales to "liberals", I wonder if 2nd Amendment rights will continue to be important to the GOP.

I suspect the conservatives will crash and burn on the same rock that did in the 1900-1920 conservatives - they tried to extend liberal thoughts into control of how folks should live personal lifes - and American individualism cut them dowm.

The Gop values folks may well be coming to a crash on those same American individualism beliefs.

So far the media has let the GOP sound bite "American individualism" while trying to impose sex life controls while they remove the "liberal" controls on business and gov that the 1900-1920 progressives were able to install (Wilson was the high point - and FDR was in the Wilson administration as Sec of the Navy - and did a great Job of "progressive change" but with the individual freedom controlled and modified by gov part removed)

When you say mercenaries, are you referring to the US military. Lets not forget that a lot of the military is being made up of the poor and middle classes right now.

While some might remain loyal to the government, some will remain loyal to their families and friends.

:eyes:

There's no basis for it. No organized armed camps. We're still agreeing to believe that we can resolve our differences through the electoral process.

That could change if there were a major economic collapse. I don't know if it could be termed a civil war, but insurrection is a distinct possibility from some quarters.

eom

In the third world the rural poor were the backbone of the revolution. They were largely free of the sort of policing that can be achieved in urban areas and could float in and attack the cities at will and ambush the instruments of state power and fade back into the wilderness.

In America in a screwed up twist of fate, our rural poor are largely theocratic, right-wing, reactionaries.

Not all of us living in rural areas are rightwing. Many, many liberal country folks live in Red Country.

I do agree that Conservatives are more likely to resort to violence over political questions like they did slavery. The same mentality exist in todays rightwingers.

Americans are 1)Too lazy now, and 2)don't even know what's going on.

Most Americans would rather stay home, watch American Idol, and have a few drinks in their warm homes. Truthfully.

Plus, usually, liberals are nonviolent (see: Election 2000, what went on at Al Gore's house, the brooks brothers mob.....no liberal counterparts to that).

I can see skirmishes, and assorted silliness brought on us by the wingnut militia types, but that's it.

But i unfortunately cant rule out that some rightwing looney is gonna go into some liberal gatherin or something and kill abunch of people and then blow his brains out..

As long as the far right holds power they will use
the levers of goverment. If the left get power back
expect a upturn in far right violence but a civil war
requires two armed sides. In the US there is only
one armed side expect more wink and nod attacks like
the anthrax ones, not civil war.

if civil liberties continue to erode. Revolt has always been the result, historically speaking.

I know the rightwingers that used to hangout at the Old pathfinder boards hinted at it many times that they wanted Civil War if Al Gore won.

Around that same time many rightwingers expressed simpathy for Tim McVeigh.

No, I think we will see similar acts of violence on the part of rightwingers.

You do need to watch your neighbors and rightwing freinds. Some carry grudges along time. I know. I have pissed off every SOB I have came into contact with who spouts propaganda from Fox.

Since I was called a Comunist by a contractor I was bricking a house for I personally have hardened my resolve to live in the Light. I denounce any who persist in ragging me for being a Democrat.

It has gained me respect from some unlikely sources. Rightwingers who hate Limbaugh and the muuch of the Republican agenda seem to cowardly to smack down their comrades who go over the top and secretly relish it when I smack them down.

Within my circle of freinds the Republicans have learned I mean it when I tell them I do not want to hear their canned rhetoric that they offer for reasoned thought.

Pointing out rhetoric and showing republicans who put the words in their mouths has become a hoby of mine. I try to keep it out of my personal life when dealing with my freinds and neighbors. I demand they do the same if they don't want me to strip their worldveiw down to the facist propaganda and throw it back in their face.

I think we have more to fear from cowardly McVeigh wan-a-bees. The wackos I have confronted really go ballistic when first having their religion(sick politics ) revealed for the duplicious doublespeak it is.

Losing your faith, poltical, religious..., is a tramatic event. I know it was for me when I realized religion is a tool that is identical to rightwing dogma. Republicans and conservatives are the same as brainwashed religious zealots. They will not admit the truth and in many cases never see the truth even when it is right in front of them.

I am afraid of misplaced religious like faith in politics.

But possible. More of an uprising, then a civil war. Irregardless of which one it turns out to be people will lose their lives on both sides.

nt

but I think it's going to be socio-economic rather than racial (although in many cities that amounts to the same thing).

The changing social dynamics of our nation are making its long term survival untenable. I think the spark for such a war will be in the west, but will spread across the country from there.

Here's how I think it will happen:

Most hispanic immigrants are far from liberal. They tend to be among the most conservative of conservatives and only support the Democratic party because they fear that the Republicans will close the borders. Within 50 years, however, hispanic immigrants and their children will have a clear majority in southwestern states like California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada and they will completely dominate the politics of that region. At this point, I think the conflicting goals will split the Democratic party, with the progressive Democrats remaining Democrat and the more conservative immigrants forming their own Hispanic Party. Since hispanics would already enjoy clear majorities in the southwest, it will quickly become a shoo-in to take every seat from the Democratic party..

From this point on, it's all downhill. If the southwest is dominated by hispanics who see themselves as more "chicano" than "American", and they essentially rule themselves via their own party, it's only a matter of time until they ask the question: "Why can't we rule ourselves?" I work on a college campus and have seen the growing appeal of various hispanic separatist and "Aztlanic" movements among the educated immigrant youth. These young kids today will be the leaders of government when this all comes down, so I have little doubt that many will advocate seccession from the U.S. With nearly half of our military comprised of immigrants and hispanics who would be sympathetic to the seccessionary cause, and with seized American aircraft, naval equipment, and nuclear ballistic missiles in their arsenal, I doubt the U.S. could do much to oppose them.

From there, I'd expect that rebellion would ripple across America. The "conservative middle" of America will demand the forced expulsion of the "Mexicans" from their part of the country out of fear that they would rise up and claim their land too. The U.S. government would refuse to deport or allow the harrassment of its own citizens, so armed Freeper-types would start gunning down any Mexican they saw with the justification that, "They're saving America." This would inevitably lead to marshal law in the midwest, which would lead to the freeper-types rebelling, which would cut the nation in two.

After that? The northwest would be physically disconnected from the eastern U.S., so it's possible that they'd simply split off into their own nation or join Canada. I'd also bet that the "South Will Rise Again" types in the southeast will begin terrorist activities against blacks and "librul northerners" in order to "free" their land from "U.S. occupation". I wouldn't bet on them winning, but they'll probably make a mess of things.

Yes, I am a pessimist, why do you ask?

...only then will I take up arms against my government.

A voter revolt is much more likely for the comming election.

Shit's gonna hit the fan.

Like the Imperial Romans, the charade must be kept in place because the core nature of our nation (as it was of theirs) that we do not bow to Kings.

They must keep up the charade of elections, though they will be as believable as Hitler's 1936 plebiscite or Saddam's in 1999 or 2000.

I think. I base this on something I saw yesterday that was very disturbing. A regular mid-size truck with a HUGE American flag lashed down to fly in this young guy's truck bed, with a big poster inside the cab that said "LIBERALS ARE TRAITORS".

'course the guy was driving way to fast like a jacka$$ too.

... wear identifying arm bands or patches is the day I run for the border as fast as I possibly can.

beginning in 2005 due to the election.

www.johntitor.com

Great read.

I honestly don't buy the story, but it's an interesting look at "could-be" scenarios.

Seriously!

Civil unrest is looking increasingly likely, particularly as the employment picture continues to deteriorate. Further, the possibility of quasi-official rampages against liberals and other dissidents should not be ruled out.

War, however, does not appear likely as the people with large quantities of guns--the security forces and the dittoheads--are all on the same side.

Thnk Zimbabwe rather than Croatia.

In fact, when my dad saw Shelby Foote speak, he asked him this very question. And Shelby said, in essensce, that there would never be another civil war because the states and the people depend so much on one another now that it would never happen.

Questions like these were raised in the 60's because of all the civil unrest. As the poster above said, 'unrest yes, war no'...