Christian McCarthyism

What is happening in this country? Fundamentalist so-called Christians are setting the agenda in our government, on our airwaves, schools and inside non-religious groups, instilling a kind of fear in those who are non-Christians. When will good people stand up and call for the truth; that we are responsible for the kind of lives, government, leaders, environment and future that is best for the general good and future of a democracy, not God. If you are a true believer, God doesn’t exist of fear, natural disasters, hate, war, killing, torture, revenge. Some so-called Christian leaders in this country are operating like Senator Joe McCarthy’s cabal, grabbing the national microphone threatening and smearing people, in this case, with lines from the Bible and twisted logic. They seem to have no problem, like Crusaders of old, killing those who would oppose them in their quest for empire and power. It’s time for good people to stand up and declare the imposters that these snake oil salesmen and profiteers really are. Where are the Edward R. Murrows in our national media, willing to stand and call for an end to the Christian Taliban and their message of fear and hate.

I truly believe that we can take this country back from the Christian McCarthyites, but only if good people stand up and speak out.

... by refusing to go to your church if it or its denomination indulges in Taliban-like activities.

I've written off the entire Christian belief system, in fact, seeing that its patriarchal thought system and its vilification of women have everything to do with our sexism and homophobia.

I believe it's the policy makers and not the people in the pews that are behind this . That they are just afraid or dont know how to make a stand in thier church, it's the whole safety in number game. I say that the left unites and we start phyiscally picketing the right wing crowd like phelps dobson and the bishops council. And again i bear no ill wll to the true christians on this page we just have to unite and stick together aginat the policy making right wingers.

who behave like the Taliban.

But I think the Christian belief system doesn't quite "have everything" to do with sexism and homophobia. Here in our culture, that's the truth, but other faiths do their part throughout the rest of the world. For example, the recent hangings in Iran.

I don't understand why humans try to simplify everything so it fits neatly within a proscribed dogma. One of our fatal flaws, I believe.

But the Iranian gay hangings are part of the bigger problem. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam share a common beginning and a common bond. I honestly consider them three different versions of the same religion, even.

And as long as the story of Adam and Eve exists, women will continue to be vilified.

Jews, Muslims and Christians who will disagree with you about being three versions of the same religion, but personally I will buy it.

And yeah, who the hell thought up Eve? Some little guy with a little weenie.

In the massive Asian communities surrounding me, Christianity is not the primary force of sexism though... Confucian traditions are. They belittle women too for different reasons (primarily because you need sons to continue your family line). Back in their home countries, the most common form of abortion is the most evil one - one to ensure the birth of a boy. In fact, in some Asian countries, that is the only legal abortion.

A Christianized Asian culture (such as the Korean-Americans) is a double-whammy on women's and gay rights.

Thanks.

A question: is it difficult to be a lesbian in that culture?

God, what a stupid question. Of course it is. Maybe the better question is are you able to live openly as a lesbian?

I am not only lesbian but also transgender. It's next to impossible to be transgender, especially male-to-female since it's a HUGE step down in status. China and Thailand have a nice transgender subculture, nevertheless.

But to be transgender AND lesbian is unheard of in Asian cultures. Being transgender in Asia is the domain of effeminate gay men who have no better options... (Female-to-males are also pretty much unheard of.)

that believes in the real message and actions of
the Jesus, the Christ. The Christian church itself is still
patriarchal, but good hearts and minds are trying to change
that. And that takes courage and speaking out.

I've been saying the same thing for ages! It's a message worth repeating until it finally sinks in!

especially when rational media actually has
stories on whether these natural disasters
foretell of the end of the world?

Jesus Christ, we have lost our minds in this country
because people are afraid to stand up to the snake oil
salesmen.

Fundamentalist Radical Clerics such as Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson are not merely medieval throwbacks or misguided religious hacks. They are part of a well organized subversionary movement known as "Dominionism".

Dominionism constitutes a serious threat to American Democracy. These Radical Clerics have developed and are executing a detailed plan to gradually replace the free, secular democratic society of the United States with a Theocracy.

It is critical that people become aware of the extreme agenda these people have for the United States and ultimately for the world. The results of the 2004 Presidential Election were not a fluke or something that was drummed up over a period of months. It has been in planning for over 20 years, and what we are seeing take place now is, in the words of Katherine Yurica, "the swift advance of a planned coup".

The articles below are critical for understanding the Dominionist movement; for realizing how real and how detailed their plans are; and to become aware of how far they have come toward achieving their goals.

The Swift Advance of a Planned Coup: Conquering by Stealth and Deception - How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Video on the Christian Reconstructionist Dominionist Theocratic Agenda
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party
a public information project from TheocracyWatch.org
http://www.theocracywatch.org

The Yurica Report - News, Intelligence, Analysis
http://www.yuricareport.com

The Religious Right - An Anti-American Terrorist Movement
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8816.htm

...From the persecution of gnostics and other sects in the first few centuries, through the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, right up to today's pedophile priests, Christianity has inflicted more suffering on mankind than Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Kahn, Pol Pot and all the "really bad guys" combined. Christianity has been a 2,000 year nightmare of violence, intolerance, torture, murder, destruction and child molestation.

*****

The Religious Right is really OUT OF CONTROL and is exerting a greater and greater influence on our society. They are flexing their muscles in the political process, the economy and our entire culture.

Let us remember that the first time Christianity spread rapidly and gained control of the government (in Rome from 200 - 500 AD) it resulted in the utter collapse of Western Civilization and ushered in 1,000 years of darkness, superstition, ignorance and suffering. Finally, after a millennium of Darkness, mankind began to see the Dawn of The Age of Reason and The Enlightenment. Humanity recovered some dignity, science was freed from the chains of religious superstition and real progress began.

The Constitution of the United States of America was one of the crowning achievements of The Enlightenment, being a document for the Establishment of a government that did NOT MAKE ONE SINGLE REFERENCE TO "GOD". With the establishment of the United States, government as well as science was freed from the domination of religious superstition.

Now, every day in the news there is some story about how the religionists are exerting their influence. Radical Clerics like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell get air time on network news. Religionists are organizing and boycotting businesses that do not adhere to their version of personal morality. The specter of religious superstition is once again casting a frightening shadow over our world. The ghosts and demons of the Dark Ages, once believed to be banished forever by Reason, are again haunting our culture. Christianity destroyed civilization once before - it could happen again.

*****

The Freethought Zone
Science and Reason Over Religion and Superstition
http://freethought.freeservers.com /

Freedom from Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org /

Secular Humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org /

Secular Web
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml

Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

Complete Works of Robert Ingersoll - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml

Evolve Fish - Your One-Stop Shop for Freethought Materials
http://www.evolvefish.com

I'm still writing from the POV of a Christian,
fed up with infusion of the rightwingnutteryfundieChristian
message of hate, division and exclusion that has
nothing to do with God or Jesus Christ.

I know that plenty of people don't believe and
I stand for their rights not to be governed
by those who blur the lines between faith and
laws.

"God's Politics" by Jim Wallis? He addresses these issues in his book.

I've only read excerpts but have heard many Christians agree with what he posits in that book. Apparently, a lot of people are reading this book in their church bookclubs.

I know Jim Wallis has filled the void for Christians
like me, but he's still not as progressive as I am
in my beliefs.

I like Bishop John Spong's writings.

you will agree with, such as seperation of church and state and how Repuke religious nuts are hypocritical.

I'm not religious at all and plan on reading his book from a sociology of religion perspective.

snip from interview:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/qa/2005/03/gods_politics_jim_wallis.html

Jim Wallis: The Right is comfortable with the language of religion, values, God talk. So much so that they sometimes claim to own that territory. Or own God. But then they narrow everything down to one or two issues: abortion and gay marriage.

I am an evangelical Christian, and I can’t ignore thousands of verses in the Bible on subject, which is poverty. I say at every stop, “Fighting poverty’s a moral value, too.” There’s a whole generation of young Christians who care about the environment. That’s their big issue. Protecting God’s creation, they would say, is a moral value, too. And, for a growing number of Christians, the ethics of war—how and when we go to war, whether we tell the truth about going to war—is a religious and moral issue as well.

I think the Right has made a serious mistake in adopting a moral-values strategy, because they’re winning in the short run. in the long run, they’re going to lose this debate because they won’t be able to restrict it to two issues. Once you open that door to a values conversation, it’s going to undercut a right-wing economic agenda, which values wealth over work and favors the rich over the poor, or resorts to war as the first resort and not the last. To quote the White House, when it comes to moral values in this discussion, I say, “Bring it on!” Let’s have the conversation, because the Right’s going to lose this debate in the end. But not if the Left doesn’t even get in the conversation.

"Sins of Scripture" is an excellent book - one that mainline evangelical Christians have HARSHLY condemned.

A few hundred years ago, they would have tied Sprong to a stake, piled up the kindling, and roasted him at a slow fire. They may have felt "led by the Spirit" to use pliers to tear out his tongue first, so he could not offend them by uttering blasphemies at them while they were burning him. (YES, Christians REALLY did that, and it was considered to be a GOOD idea).

*****

As Robert Ingersoll said in his lecture Heretics and Heresies:

"Give any orthodox church the power, and to-day they would punish heresy with whip, and chain, and fire. As long as a church deems a certain belief essential to salvation, just so long it will kill and burn if it has the power. Why should the church pity a man whom her God hates? Why should she show mercy to a kind and noble heretic whom her God will burn in eternal fire? Why should a Christian be better than his God? It is impossible for the imagination to conceive of a greater atrocity than has been perpetrated by the church. Every nerve in the human body capable of pain has been sought out and touched."

"Let it be remembered that all churches have persecuted heretics to the fullest extent of their power. Toleration has increased only when and where the power of the church has diminished. From Augustine until now the spirit of the Christians has remained the same. There has been the same intolerance, the same undying hatred of all who think for themselves, and the same determination to crush out of the human brain all knowledge inconsistent with an ignorant creed."

More excerpts from Heretics and Heresies:

"WHOEVER has an opinion of his own, and honestly expresses it, will be guilty of heresy. Heresy is what the minority believe; it is the name given by the powerful to the doctrine of the weak. This word was born of the hatred, arrogance and cruelty of those who love their enemies, and who, when smitten on one cheek, turn the other. This word was born of intellectual slavery in the feudal ages of thought. It was an epithet used in the place of argument. From the commencement of the Christian era, every art has been exhausted and every conceivable punishment inflicted to force all people to hold the same religious opinions. This effort was born of the idea that a certain belief was necessary to the salvation of the soul. Christ taught, and the church still teaches. that unbelief is the blackest of crimes. God is supposed to hate with an infinite and implacable hatred, every heretic upon the earth, and the heretics who have died are supposed at this moment to be suffering the agonies of the damned. The church persecutes the living and her God burns, for all eternity, the dead."

"It is claimed that God wrote a book called the Bible, and it is generally admitted that this book is somewhat difficult to understand. As long as the church had all the copies of this book, and the people were not allowed to read it, there was comparatively little heresy in the world; but when it was printed and read, people began honestly to differ as to its meaning. A few were independent and brave enough to give the world their real thoughts, and for the extermination of these men the church used all her power. Protestants and Catholics vied with each other in the work of enslaving the human mind. For ages they were rivals in the infamous effort to rid the earth of honest people. They infested every country, every city, town, hamlet and family. They appealed to the worst passions of the human heart. They sowed the seeds of discord and hatred in every land. Brother denounced brother, wives informed against their husbands, mothers accused their children, dungeons were crowded with the innocent; the flesh of the good and true rotted in the clasp of chains; the flames devoured the heroic, and in the name of the most merciful God, his children were exterminated with famine, sword, and fire. Over the wild waves of battle rose and fell the banner of Jesus Christ. for sixteen hundred years the robes of the church were red with innocent blood. The ingenuity of Christians was exhausted in devising punishment severe enough to be inflicted upon other Christians who honestly and sincerely differed with them upon any point whatever."

"According to the theologians, God, the Father of us all, wrote a letter to his children. The children have always differed somewhat as to the meaning of this letter. In consequence of these honest differences, these brothers began to cut out each other's hearts. In every land, where this letter from God has been read, the children to whom and for whom it was written have been filled with hatred and malice. They have imprisoned and murdered each other, and the wives and children of each other. In the name of God every possible crime has been committed, every conceivable outrage has been perpetrated. Brave men, tender and loving women, beautiful girls, and prattling babes have been exterminated in the name of Jesus Christ. For more than fifty generations the church has carried the black flag. Her vengeance has been measured only by her power. During all these years of infamy no heretic has ever been forgiven. With the heart of a fiend she has hated; with the clutch of avarice she has grasped; with the jaws of a dragon she has devoured; pitiless as famine, merciless as fire, with the conscience of a serpent: such is the history of the Church of God."

Heretics and Heresies by Robert G. Ingersoll
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/heretics_and_hericies.html

*****

And finally, the most prescient and appropriate quote in all of Ingersoll's massive 12 Volume Collected Works, from "Some Mistakes of Moses" written in 1879:

"It probably will not be long until the churches will divide as
sharply upon political, as upon theological questions; and when
that day comes, if there are not liberals enough to hold the
balance of power, this Government will be destroyed. The liberty of
man is not safe in the hands of any church. Wherever the Bible and
sword are in partnership, man is a slave."

from Some Mistakes of Moses by Robert G. Ingersoll
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/some_mistakes_of_moses.html

:hide:

Because thats about as oversimplified a statement as I've seen here at DU, and that's saying a lot.

Like the one to which you are responding, for example.

But if someone were to make a similar statement about, say, Islam's multitudinous offenses against common decency, a hundred or so posters would line up to denounce him or her and then the post would be deleted.

Interesting, isn't it?

I'll take it one step further

Its time to embrace secularism, and make it something the democrats are proud to stand up for.

am reading 'The End of Faith' by Sam Harris

powerful, timely book. We MUST move our politics away from the mythology of religion or the human species is doomed.

to stand up for a democracy that separates
faith from laws. There's more power I believe
from the message coming from those with faith.

Christianity is not going away. The majority of voters are Christian and we need their votes to win.

I'd like to see more liberal and moderate Christians stand up to these fringe nuts.

Why not pass out 70 million voter guides in their churches, as did the far right wingnuts? They need to start making the connection of real Christian values to Democratic values and take back Christianity from the Repukes.

and so won't promote candidates in churches.
We certainly can take action on measures and legislation
that Christ would say hurts the poor, disenfranchised.

But educate the congregation by drawing the connection between Christian values and Dem values. Encourage members to support anti poverty and pro equal rights legislation and the party that supports/sponsors those measures.

If I were a church goer, I would seriously consider creating an email list to send out Bible quotes about helping the poor that included the most recent evil doings by the Bushcorp.

It's part of the church doctrine to advocate for down trodden people in society and in our society, the most powerful way to advocate for them is to secure fair legislation.

Dem values should be real Christian values.

Great organization to support,

Why Separate Church and State?

Separation of church and state is the only principle that can ensure religious and philosophical freedom for all Americans. Church-state separation does not mean hostility toward religion. Rather, it means that the government will remain neutral on religious questions, leaving decisions about God, faith and house of worship attendance in the hands of its citizens.

The results of America’s policy of church-state separation can be seen all around us: Thanks to separation of church and state, Americans enjoy an unparalleled amount of religious freedom. In some nations, churches remain dependent upon government for support and aid. Religious life in these nations is often devitalized, and many churches are near empty on Sundays. Other countries merge religion and government into theocracies. Religious liberty cannot flourish under that system either; attempt by the government to enforce a version of religious orthodoxy foster only repression. By contrast, religious liberty has flourished in America and separation of church and state can take the credit.

Our Founding Fathers understood that efforts by government to “help” religion usually end up hurting it in the long run. Thanks to their vision, America has struck the right balance. Religious groups are supported with voluntary contributions, not tax dollars. Houses of worship are free to seek new members and spread their religious messages but they must use their own resources to do so. Institutions that serve Americans of many religious faiths and none, such as public schools, are free from sectarian control. The government cannot force or coerce anyone to take part in religious worship or prayer services. Americans have the right to join whatever religious group they like or refrain from taking part in religion at all. No one can be forced to support, aid or fund religious groups.

more

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer

:patriot:

...because they do not have to embrace secularism to operate with secular, rational principals.

And if the Democratic Party did embrace explicit secularism, the Radical Clerics of the Religious Reich and their millions of Electoral Shock Troops (the "values voters") would swarm over and destroy Democrats like Storm Troopers over Poland. Even rational people with moderate (?) religious beliefs do not like explicit secularism, which entails the "a" word.

But implicit secularism is just what the United States is founded on. Rational principals of good government, with powers derived not from ghosts and gods but from the consent of the governed.

Implicit secularism does not denigrate or oppose religion. It just ignores it as irrelevant. We do not have Baptist Mathematics and Buddhist Mathematics and Secular Mathematics. We just have Mathematics. The secularism is implicit. 2 + 2 = 4, and god or gods have nothing to do with it. It is just the principals of mathematics.

In a similar way we can have secular government without any talk of secularism. There are certain ways to administer a free society, construct and execute policy, etc, and god or gods have nothing to do with it.

Chemistry, Accounting, Metalworking, Astronomy, Politics, Auto Mechanics, Psychology - each discipline has a field of study, a methodology, and an application - and none of them have anything to do with gods or ghosts. People who believe in (and even worship) gods and ghosts can work in those fields, but they use the same information, methods, assumptions, and procedures as an explicit atheist who works in the same disciple uses, because the disciplines (except Theology and Priest-craft) are all secular disciplines.

This is certainly what our Founding Fathers had in mind when the conceived the United States. They did not make any statements for or against God in the Constitution - the completely ignored "God" - not making a single mention of "God" or "Creator" or "Supreme Being" or anything of the sort in the entire text of the document because this concept is utterly irrelevant to the constitution and governance of a nation.

about 'implicit secularism'

but how to get there when GOD & religion are seeping into our political institutions - contrary to what the 'separation of church & state' parts of our Constitution are supposed to guarantee.

I do not advocate denigrating or opposing religion. But religion MUST be kept out of government at all cost - this issue must be addressed explicitly.

The shiavo business showed to me that most americans by a big majority do not like somebody else's religious ideas forced on them. I think the democratic party needs to voice this concern.

I'm more of the opinion that fundamentalists are more in tune with the core beliefs of the faith than the more gentle and nurturing types. This god plays a nasty game of cosmic chicken with people: without adequately revealing himself, he demands total subservience upon pain of extreme eternal torture. The guy seems to not give a damn about what one does to others as long as one prostrates oneself and swears total obedience to him.

Where do you get the idea that god doesn't exist to rein people in with fear? That's his chief m.o.

I agree with everything else you say except for the supposition that this fiery and domineering nastiness is some kind of perversion of the faith. These people should and must be called out.

Sadly, to have any voice in this society--and especially politics--one must have a professed belief in a supernatural being. With any luck, the religious left and decent believers can band together and shoot these creeps down on their own terms. It's literally the only thing that's going to save this country, but the sad effect as the smoke clears will be that only believers have a voice and that somehow "god is good" because of the triumph of getting rid of these totalitarians. It will be seen that god is necessary, and regardless of having kept the current dark forces at bay, the stranglehold of religion will have strengthened.

I like the way you put it. Thanks:thumbsup:

A lot of people grew up with a fear-based religion
and God shoved into their brains unfortunately.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

tongue in cheek I assume.

Testing someone's faith isn't what anyone wants.
Keeping faith separate from laws is.

I am telling you we can't just leave the church, the wont let us be. And we can't sit silently on either side of the aisle it is not working. Everyone on the left must put aside the difference temporaily and picket the right wing posers. How do you deal with a bully? You pop him in the nose hard, he'll leave you alone.
Again I have no problem with the people on DU that go to church I go to church but there's str in numbers. And it's up to us to rally and hit Phelps, Focus on the Family, the 700 club, and the right wing policy makers were they live.
Cmom it's sink or swim time. The battle of Helms Deep is over, the War for Middle Earth has begun. Let do this.

is our friend.

Christofascists - and True Followers of Christ. Ye shall know them by their fruits. It's not at all difficult to tell who is who.