Perjury and obstruction ain’t gonna do it, folks

As sick as it is, those are “spinnable” offenses.

We need more than just another nail in the coffin right now.

We need the definitive knock-out blow.

Isn't perjury punishable by jail time? What about obstruction? I know we want to see these guys "hang" for their crimes, but, barring that, wouldn't it be better to get them on a so-called technicality that to let them resume business as usual?

www.worldcantwait.org We have to see what the indicments are before getting down or overly excited. we need so much of the truth to come out.

TAKE ACTION NOW AT http://www.millionphonemarch.com/impeach.htm

"Chickenshit bullshit."

After five years and two stolen presidental elections, you're getting weak in the knees NOW??? If things don't go our way, we'll have plenty of time for licking our wounds afterwards. You're going to let them take your HOPE away, too? Stop cutting your losses before the score comes inm get back on the field, and start cheering for our side!


rocknation

First let me say that I do hope that members of the Administration are charged with treason and violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

But let's remember:

1. Violations of the the Intelligence Identities Protection Act is very hard to prove

2. The Republicans impeached Clinton for perjury---lying about a consensual sexual affair. They lowered the bar for impeachment. And so we cannot let them do their "spin" if only charges of perjury and obstruction of justice are brought.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2005-10-23T161616Z_01_MOR119416_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-LEAK.xml

While Fitzgerald could still charge administration officials with knowingly revealing Plame's identity, the lawyers said he appeared more likely to seek charges for easier-to-prove crimes such as making false statements, obstruction of justice and disclosing classified information.

Another possibility was for Fitzgerald to bring a broad conspiracy charge, the lawyers said.

INVESTIGATION EXPANDED

Lawyers said Fitzgerald has sent several signals in recent days that he is likely to bring indictments in the case. Continued ...

The letter from then-Deputy Attorney General James Comey gave Fitzgerald added authority to investigate and prosecute "federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, your investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses."

Nobody really knows exactly what the prosecutor will do, but he requested and has been granted permission to expand his investigation.

But all the "lawyers familiar with the case" seem to think he's going after narrower "more-easy-to-prove charges." That really worries me.

You can bet they aren't lawyers who are working for Fitzgerald.

That would leave defense lawyers for those who are possibly facing charges, or so my logic concludes.

Clinton lied about consensual sex. Period. Keep that in mind. That is what he was impeached for. It wasn't the sex, it was the lie, remember?

Same here.

Period. We need to keep reminding ourselves that, and using to smack the GOPpers right in their smug little faces.

representing the future defendents, it is their job to low ball this. Their frantic messages tell me they know their clients are in DEEP shit.

are simply the ones who have been assigned to follow it by the Bush crime family. This could simply be part of their campaign to minimize the charges ("Valerie Plame was just a secretary") and demonize the prosection (RIP Johnnie Cochoran). NOBODY knows what Fitz has up this sleeve--NOBODY. What we've been getting from the MSM has been based on ANALYSIS and SPECULATION. What qualifies you to be familiar with a case, anyway--reading about it in a newspaper?

:headbang:
rocknation

Spinnable or not, it's a weak spin at best. And that won't stop their convictions. Let them TRY to spin their convictions for covering up TREASON.

I think perhaps Fitzgerald is going to get a few mea culpas when the indictments go out and they you'll hear some real fancy singing.

I must keep reminding myself to be patient.

What did Rovert Novak tell the prosecutor? Did Rove and Libby tell him something different - perjury? Did they try to obstruct justice with their intentional misstatements?

Watergate involved low level crimes and
and the conspiracy to cover them up.
Lying was also the meat of the Iran-Contra
indictments. The Bushies betrayed their
country, but don't expect treason charges.

We can hope for indictments for releasing
classified information. But lying to inves-
tigators or lying under oath is enough to send
them to jail. Just ask Martha Stewart.

so that does give us hope.

But I don't think we should kid ourselves that what goes for Martha, goes for the White House.

And what real damage did Iran-Conra do to Reagan? The last time I checked he still has Deity status among a major segment of the american population and the media.

We don't know and I choose to remain optomistic until proven otherwise. :toast:

Don't forget, people like H.R. Haldeman and John Erlichman were only found guilty of obstruction of justice and perjury charges in Watergate, and who today thinks that's all that Watergate was about. Nixon wasn't even charged, just an "unindicted co-conspirator" on perjury and obstruction.
If that's all the special prosecutor is going after, it'll still open up the entire can of worms.
I'm only worried if there are no indictments.

spinnable and there is NOTHING that would stop them from trying.

Perjury and obstruction are serious enough - especially given their track record on impeaching Clinton.

Spin!!! He's got boatloads!!!

I think its a choice he is giving them Get out on these charges or their will be more!!!

Most people, except for hard core freeps, are going to be repulsed by that.

However, I think Fitz has a big case.

I know most Republicans think they're above the law and can hurt as many people as they want and nobody can say anything. However, I think Fitz might actually have something even they can't defend.

"the definitive, knock-out blow."

Peace.

They got Clinton for perjury, and these assholes have done far more than that. I don't care if Bush himself gets axed, although that would be the sweetest thing imaginable. But in fact 'd *love* to see the chump flounder throught the next three years without his cabal.

the person testifying is LYING to cover up a greater crime. Perhaps it's because of that lie that the larger crime can't be proven.

The Bush crime family can try and claim perjury and obstruction of justice is no big deal but tell that to the Nixon crime family. Lying about a burglary is one thing...lying about exposing an intelligence operation that has harmed our national security is another.

It's a knock-out blow if we just Don't Repeat Their Talking Points.

The repubs can't spin perjury and obstruction. They're all on record from the Clinton days about what a threat to the republic perjury and obstruction are. Based on their prior statements, perjury and obstruction are at least as bad as treason.

on investigation. The one that sticks out for me in that newest info we received is, destruction of evidence. Remember Gonzoles giving them a heads up? Wonder if that will be tied in.

Man I hope they go down.

It would be too difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that such lies violated a provision of federal criminal law. And he is very unlikely to indict either Bush or Cheney, although Cheney could be named as an unindicted co-conspirator. But Fitzgerald probably will indict several people on charges which will include illegally disclosing classified information, conspiracy to do the same, lying to federal investigators, perjury, obstruction of justice, and conspiracy to obstruct justice. Libby and Rove likely will be indicted on at least four of these counts and perhaps all six. As many as four or five other people likely will be indicted on one or more.

These are serious charges and the lies concerning the attack on Iraq certainly will be a part of the public debate about the charges, and may be a part of any trials, since those lies essentially are the motive for the other crimes. As a part of that public debate, democrats need to be prepared to counter the republican spin that the democratic party and Fitzgerald have criminalized politics. Democrats need to respond to every republican complaint by pointing out that all of these crimes are related to a needless war based on lies. Democrats also need to point out that criminals have always been against the prosecution of crime.

The indictments in this case will not lead to the end of the Bush administration. Nor will they lead to the end of corrupt one party control of the federal government, but they will contribute to it. They are one more nail in the coffin just as future investigations which reveal more crime and corruption on the part of Bush and other republicans will be. The end of corrupt one party control will be a process, not an event.

...break out. Some of them are starting to distance themselves from Bush.

That's gonna do it, folks.