SOURCES: FITZGERALD DECIDES TO SEEK INDICTMENTS... DEVELOPING...

www.rawstory.com

developing...

:bounce: :woohoo: :popcorn:

:bouncygreenthing:

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

Didn't see that one coming.. What's the sun going to do tonight?

How long does this story have to develop?

Hurray!

announce indictments today?

all of it refreshes.

:evilgrin:

And they haven't been wrong yet.

I don't know exactly why, but it sure gets people excited!

They post a teaser headline here, get TONS of people to go to their site and hit refresh 100000000000000000 times, which gets them money from their sponsors.

It's NOT something that would happen if they POSTED the FUCKING STORY.

It is a scam, pure and simple. A money-making gimmick.

And nasty practice.

But then, I never go once, since I know exactly what's going on over there. ;-)

They do a great job. It's possible that they're actually working on the story, y'know--posting the teaser is basically the same as what local TV news does when they advertise.

No reputable news source does what they do. Hype hype hype hype until AP or WP or NYTimes posts their story then suddenly it's a "Rawstory Exclusive!!!!!"

It's HUGH, I tell you... just HUGH!!!!!

for newsmagazine programs, and all day for my local evening hews.
They do great work.

most aren't even articles, but links to the work of others - but it'll be DEVELOPING HARD until the target's page it up, at which point there will be a summary and a link.

Fucking lame.

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

I think I am hearing klagons going off right now....

. . . we see an unindicted co-conspirator as well.

If he's got anything, Fitz should just go for it. You don't want to just wound a dangerous animal; you need to take it out for your own safety.

The President can be both impeached and indicted. In fact, if the indictment is in regard to the same crime(s) as the impeachment, the impeachment in itself makes pardon impossible.

The same rules apply to all civil offices in the government: Pres, VP, cabinet, and on down the line.

Article I, Section 3, Clause 7:
"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1:
"The President ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

Article II, Section 4:
"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

http://www.law.emory.edu/erd/docs/usconser.html

When it says conviction, it means conviction in the trial in the Senate following impeachment in the House.

But it doesn't appear to me that indictment can only take place after impeachment/conviction. It's just not mentioned as a sequential thing.

I'm still learning things. It's a lot to digest, if you aren't good at this kind of thing.

indicted but it has yet to be tested at the USSC. According to a "MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL":

In 1973, the Department concluded that the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions. We have been asked to summarize and review the analysis provided in support of that conclusion, and to consider whether any subsequent developments in the law lead us today to reconsider and modify or disavow that determination.1 We believe that the conclusion reached by the Department in 1973 still represents the best interpretation of the Constitution.

The Department's consideration of this issue in 1973 arose in two distinct legal contexts. First, the Office of Legal Counsel ("OLC") prepared a comprehensive memorandum in the fall of 1973 that analyzed whether all federal civil officers are immune from indictment or criminal prosecution while in office, and, if not, whether the President and Vice President in particular are immune from indictment or criminal prosecution while in office. See Memorandum from Robert G. Dixon, Jr., Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel, Re: Amenability of the President, Vice President and other Civil Officers to Federal Criminal Prosecution while in Office (Sept. 24, 1973) ("OLC Memo"). The OLC memorandum concluded that all federal civil officers except the President are subject to indictment and criminal prosecution while still in office; the President is uniquely immune from such process. Second, the Department addressed the question later that same year in connection with the grand jury investigation of then-Vice President Spiro Agnew. In response to a motion by the Vice President to enjoin grand jury proceedings against him, then-Solicitor General Robert Bork filed a brief arguing that, consistent with the Constitution, the Vice President could be subject to indictment and criminal prosecution. See Memorandum for the United States Concerning the Vice President's Claim of Constitutional Immunity (filed Oct. 5, 1973), In re Proceedings of the Grand Jury Impaneled December 5, 1972: Application of Spiro T. Agnew, Vice President of the United States (D. Md. 1973) (No. 73-965) ("SG Brief"). In so arguing, however, Solicitor General Bork was careful to explain that the President, unlike the Vice President, could not constitutionally be subject to such criminal process while in office.

In this memorandum, we conclude that the determinations made by the Department in 1973, both in the OLC memorandum and in the Solicitor General's brief, remain sound and that subsequent developments in the law validate both the analytical framework applied and the conclusions reached at that time. In Part I, we describe in some detail the Department's 1973 analysis and conclusions. In Part II, we examine more recent Supreme Court case law and conclude that it comports with the Department's 1973 conclusions.2

Link:

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/sitting_president.htm

but I don't see a scrap of evidence in the Constitution that it's anything but pure make-believe and wishful thinking.

the DOJ at this time. It would need to be challenged if that prevailing opinion is to be changed or another legal opinion accepted that would negate the 2000 opinion. I don't see the bush DOJ looking to change the prevailing opinion. The question is: Will this opinion be challenged and taken to the USSC and, if so, by whom? Could this be why bush is so determined to seat Miers?

He doesn't give a crap about her evangelical church or Roe or anything. She will vote to keep his soft, white, butt out of prison.

Woo hoo! I don't really like to use emoticons, but
:woohoo:

:evilgrin:

:toast:

we know it's coming, but it doesn't mean today. Taking deep breaths at this point. I can't let myself "expect".. I must go back to sanding my furniture. Yep that'll help.. :wow:

Jeezus...do it already my house hasn't been cleaned in 2 weeks.....lol...refresh ...refresh..check other source...refresh...ahhhhhhhhhh

Welcome to DU!:toast:

For real...

:party:

Keep your eyes on LBN. RawStory has been just ahead of the big newsies all along. We should hear something from them very soon.

The GJ must be meeting tomorrow.

This is from Talking Points Memo

Link?

:popcorn:

I'd settle for 20.

:evilgrin:

load, and fails. And the phony Microsoft popups suck.

Is that another way to get this story without putting up with internet BS????

Story will be on DU as soon as it posts.

maybe it's coming soon...

not ready to start breathing into a brown-paper-bag yet.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that that's where it's going.

This is not how you run a journalistic operation.

Despicable, really.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Raw Story is a DU Fantasy repository, so if you've actually been waiting for indictments, feel free to pay this story no mind. It has no connection with the real news on earth.

Cheers, buster.

Anyone should be insulted for pointing out the obvious.

there is none.

I am however, stating a fact; that he weighs in his disgust of rawstory in every rawstory thread, and continues to do so, post after post in those threads without actually offering anything about the thread itself.

not an insult. an observation. and a request: to shut up.

Like "you curmudgeonly whateverthefuck" to insult someone. Telling someone to shut up in a subject header is insulting enough.

People weigh in with their Raw Story disgust because they are disgusted. As long as this Drudge-like tabloid continues to shamelessly exploit Democratic Underground and its users to build its hit count and promote itself, expect those who are fed up with RS promotions, taking screen space, to express themselves.

you are, in essence, telling me to shut up also, see?

have you insulted me by doing so? I don't feel that you have. Unless you meant to.

at any rate, my objection was how relentlessly that poster objects to it, not his ojbestion in and of itself...hence the "we got it already".

but...what-ever.

on edit: it appears the moderators see your point. Therefore I acquiese. I'll find a better way in the future to express myself.

actually.

Why would you suggest that I like Drudge? What gave you that idea? I think Drudge is a right wing slimefucker, for the record.

You wouldn't be denouncing me for freeperism in a coded manner, would you? Because you know that is a violation of DU rules.

:boring:

Hypersensitive much?

No, I just made the same comment I always make in a bullshit Raw Story thread.

Raw Story is the left version of Drudge, and both suck.

Not directed at you. Directed at Raw Story.

If you got no news, create some. And in this case, it didn't even require an act of creativity. Just repeat what everyone's being sayinf for, what is now, two or three weeks?

onenote

He will probably notify the parties involved today.

And that associates of George Tenet said he doesn't know why Cheney's office is saying that Tenet told Crashcart about Plame, because he didn't.

Oops.

:evilgrin:

MSNBC?

Just MHO without any evidence, though. From what I understand, he sends out "target letters" as a courtesy to the individual(s) he is seeking indictment for. Then, they have a final opportunity to give it another shot before the GJ before the GJ votes on whether or not to indict.

I'm guessing they went out Friday, the WH figured out their strategy over the weekend at Camp David, and with no response from the targets, Fitzgerald is presenting yesterday (and maybe today, too). Several boxes of papers were seen being wheeled into the courthouse either late on Sunday or early on Monday (presumed to be the reams of evidence).

But...I'm just guessing, of course.

Please oh please let this be the thing that ends the madness...

Please let Justice prevail!

*hoping and believing here in Iowa*

in any case.

Bush is trying to squash it

Is this news from savemefromdumbya fantasy world? The GJ has voted on indictments and Bush is trying to squash them?

Source, please.

:popcorn:

Sun to burn Earth to Crisp earlier than expected as Sun Novaes - Go Immediately to Takebackthemedia.com and keep hitting the refresh button until your browser crashes like at the porno sites..

Sorry - way too much caffeine, but still...

Just turn it off...;-)

I am so sick of Raw Story and all of the "developing" panting posts. When you have story post it until then shut up already.

It's atrocious behavior.

Those of us who don't have a problem with rawstory will click on the thread instead. If the existence of the thread itself is a bother, DU has provided a very handy feature, it's called the ignore feature.

And I have that option.

Cheers.

Raw Story hasn't been wrong once with these. Remember, They were first to break rove was the source exactly like this and then much later MSM caught up.

Not bitching, they have a site to attract visitors to, I'm just saying
it hasn't always been the big bang.

my beating heart

Yes! Yes!

...here is the FULL TEXT of their story on the matter:

SOURCES: FITZGERALD DECIDES TO SEEK INDICTMENTS... DEVELOPING...

I don't know how I deal with the 4 graf copyright limitation on that one.

or is it a stroke?

:freak: :banghead: :party: :banghead: :freak:

We're dying of anticipation here!:crazy:

I believe Rawstory was on that one too.

:hi:

:)

Here's a cogent observation from up thread

"They post a teaser headline here, get TONS of people to go to their site and hit refresh 100000000000000000 times, which gets them money from their sponsors."

Wow it almost sounds like they're in Business.

Maybe put up a few flags and chill some adult beverages.

:party:

:rofl:

put on the icing!

Indictments will be written on it.

I can see the photo shop now.

What's that Marvin Gaye song...?

We're having a party!
Everybody 's swinging
Music is playing on the radio!!

I'm serious, I am having a Party for all my friends so we can watch the news and replays on the TIVO.

Let's party.

I made Boston Cream Pie..
(yellow cake with custard and chocolate syrup)

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

I'll make the yellow cake for the kids. But it'll be hard to pass up buttered popcorn!

n/t

We need her here now! :)

and WQXR is playing the glorious Kyrie of Mozart's Requiem! Sound and Fury indeed!

But it hasn't happened YET - it may be about to though. We will know it for sure when Skinner strikes his webmaster staff, Moses-like, and GD parts like the Red Sea!

Are we still one forum???

;-)

Or is there a chance it could happen today?

Larry Johnson comments:

"For starters it is highly unlikely that George Tenet showed up at the White House and just happened to know the name of Valerie Plame. Someone at the White House asked for it first. Tenet clearly came prepared to respond to a White House request. I'm sure the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, knows who called CIA to ask the question."

Who? Who?

I don't know about this site, but i've heard the shit storm is Wednesday, but the info will leak today.

when the indictments are coming, just that Fitz is going to try to get some for sure.

at the "developing..." stage for awhile. Common sources are probably involved in RawStory's coverage and MSM coverage.

Not that I mind this!

:)

:rofl:

wouldn't he need to notify the media first? So they can have cameras, reporters, etc. ready? If they haven't been notified yet (and they'd tell us) then it must mean he's not announcing today, right? Darnit.

posted, from Bolton's UN confirmation. I am sure Raw Story is getting lots of hits and there are problems because of that. Are the rest of you also getting the same old page?

I have to go to class in 15 minutes. FINISH THE STORY ALREADY!!

When you can have suckers clicking refresh for the next six hours, driving up your hit count.

I have more chance of flying a Yugo to Antartica than you have of seeing this story in under 3 hours.

really a negative story and you're kind of a downer. Just sayin'.O8)

let me add to the falsely premised hysteria:

RAW STORY'S RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INDICTMENTS IMMINENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better? :eyes:

rawstory sux!

It's vaguely Bushesque as a rhetorical strategy, and without content or merit, but if it floats your boat, bob away.

....in one hour.

Make it to Antarctica yet?

n/t

Then agian, the story is basically empty and simply repeats what we've heard for two weeks, so I suppose posting it was easier this time.

What's the best case scenario (for us)? Is this something
that would bring down the neocons?

I'm pretty unschooled in this kind of thing.

Anyone?

:shrug:

Whoever is indicted would probably have to leave the administration, it would obviously also hurt them politically. Of course though, as far as long term much would depend on who is actually found guilty...

It's JUSTICE!!!

:patriot:

Screw Ebay. If you score tickets, preferably on the aisle, I'm your one-stop shop.

Do grand juries DO that? How long did they deliberate in Hot Tub Tom's case? I don't recall the gap between Ronnie asking them to indict and them actually indicting. 24 hours, maybe? This one might take longer unless it's really shocking evidence (and I really hope it is). Anyone know what the process will look like?

The admins are about to part the Red Sea!

When will they do it? :party:

Let's have some justice!

:toast: :party:

Indictments are just the beginning.

Even as a kid, I remember watching the trials for months. I can't even remember the names, but I remember the faces. It goes on and on from here.

http://www.rawstory.com/

Will announce later this week.

and aLso, one of the few spitting venom at RS.

Now what, are they going to BLEED each indictment out one at a time?

This is the WORST excuse for Journalism I've seen, and on Par with the standard MSM SPIN, maybe worse as We KNOW they are LYING and cannot be trusted so we want desperately to put our trust SOMEWHERE..

And it looks like RS ain't it.. I am not attacking any individual members here, because I'd say the same thing about DRUDGE, and I've been attacked by him and defended both MY SITE and MOVEON when I went on the Joe Scarborough show on MSNBC with my ARMY OF ONE ad (as a Veteran I was fighting for their rights) where I didn't dribble out "potential" but used FACTS and FIGURES to Destroy and EXPOSE the Bush Administration's cutting of Combat Pay, Death Benefits, Dependent's cuts for Housing, and massive cuts in the Veteran's Hospitals which *I* myself NEED as a Veteran drafted during Nam.

I happen to be an expert on the Media both through my studies and FOUR YEARS of toe to toe battle with them, and THIS is not constructive. It takes complete and total advantage of hope starved individuals on this board, and worse they wrack up $$$$ the whole time.

Stop this, redeem the site, you have a chance to be great, but are piddling it away with rapricious use of SHEER HYPE.

Even a broken CLOCK is RIGHT Twice a Day. Please don't destroy Liberal Media - our site has worked HARD for YEARS on our very mortgage to not sell out - and now we are making films which take a long time but EXIST and are fully researched -

I could have taken any of that information over the last year and called THOSE items "Developing" but I didn't.

It's a sham and disgraceful, and sad, when there is so much promise in what RS does.

Please Post ACTUAL SCOOPS. I've seen you do it, and I LOVED it, made me proud (and I am not into Competition, we NEED more Liberal news outlets) and I want to see more.

Do the right thing and you WILL get MORE hits than you are by using hope starved folks and Hype.. I'll throw my entire site behind RS and we have contacts that will help as well, but they won't touch this scene.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Only two indictments?

"only" the charges of lying to investigators. I'm surprised that he hasn't been able to make the charges of conspiracy or leaking the name of a covert operative stick. It's pretty obvious they did it.

I prefer delayed indictmensation anyway. LOL.

Posted by
Jersey Devil Tue Oct-25-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. 2 indictments does not mean 2 people


Each indictment could name several people. You do not issue separate indictments for each defendant in a conspiracy charge, for example. All are named as defendants in the same indictment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"The sources said, however, they wouldn't rule out charges of conspiracy."