Treason--say it loud and often.

Did you all see how Viet Dinh reacted this morning on Washington Journal when a caller asked him about treason? He nearly lost it. Started stammering and the expression on his face was worth a seeing a replay.

The act of undermining our national security through exposing the CIA operative was a TREASONOUS act.

say it LOUD, say it CLEAR.

peace

If you were Fitz, how would you establish beyond a reasonable doubt that outing Valerie Plame put every man woman and child in the USA at risk? I'm not defending what was done, just wondering how it could be turned into the crime of treason.

onenote

recruited inside the african branches of al-queda. And those agents
were the only way to gain forewarning about the nuclear terrorist
attacks that will happen in 2012.

Intelligence business is a "what if", not hard stuff, but in WW2, it
would be a plain bullet to the head for that sorta thing... why not
today?

in outing a deep-cover intel agent.

would i build a case around just that detail? no, but i would certainly mention it.

in fact once the indictments are announced our spokespeople should use that as a talking point, daily.

peace

For those who are so convinced that a conviction for treason would be possible (and appropriate) for outing Valerie Plame, I'm curious whether any of these people should have been charged with treason and, if so, why not?


Daniel Ellsberg (allegation: leaking top secret Pentagon Papers harmed US war effort)

Jane Fonda (allegation: gave aid and comfort to enemy forces, thereby putting US military at greater risk)

Ramsey Clark (allegation: same as Fonda)

Tokyo Rose (allegation: anti-American, pro-Japanese broadcasts demoralized US troops, harming war effort)

Aaron Burr (allegation: conspired to create new Mexican empire that would control portions of US territory)

Bonus question: If someone had outed the undercover CIA operatives at work in various Latin American countries (including Cuba) during the Cold War - treason? Not treason?

My point: there is a reason that its a good thing that treason is the hardest crime to bring. Its not something you want to toss around loosely unless you're prepared to have it come back and bite you in the ass some day.

onenote

deliberately disrupting our efforts to track rouge WMDs for partisan political reasons put every american in more danger.

fyi: your other examples are rw talking points & not relevant to this case at all.

peace

Remember the 8 redacted pages in judge Tatel's ruling? He talked about Fitz's "voluminous classified filings". And that was months ago.

Perhaps, Fitz discovered things that Plame/Brewster-Jennings was "on to" that, if derailed, were so egregious to nat'l security that it would constitute an act of war. Or at least "aid and comfort to the enemy" for example if BJ was about to bust an al-queada WMD link before their cover was blown. All that has to be established is,Did the leakers of her identity know about her mission? That's what's with all the he-said/she-said of the past month; i.e. How much did Dick know, and when did he know it, and has he and/or his flunkies been trying to cover up that fact that he knew?

IF Dick/George knew about Plame/BJ's mission, AND the mission was one directly involving national security or the current war, AND they subsequently derailed this effort ===> THEN we have treason folks. QED.

I don't understand why people are so keen to see Fitzgerald charge these guys with what is essentially the most difficult-to-prove crime in the country, and one of which they are likely not to be convicted. Personally, I'd rather see the fuckers rot in jail.

I'd be interested in knowing why you think the crime of treason (as opposed to your opinion that a treasonous act was committed) would be easier to prove. Under the law of treason, you need not only a treasonous act, but a treasonous state of mind. If you think there is any chance of proving that beyond a reasonable doubt, you must know something that I don't.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5168724&mesg_id=5168724

onenote

You'd have to prove that they were taking actions that were intentionally designed to assist an enemy of the United States. And even then it's not a sure thing. There are plenty of prosecutions of spies that relied on espionage statutes, as opposed to treason. I can find no example in any modern treason case that would be applicable here. I'd like to hear about one if it exists.

I was focused on the idea that for the "outing" crime, you had to prove both the "knowingly" and the "covert" part.

Thanks.

If they'd done it because they're secretly members of the Baath party, then it'd be treason.

And it'd be funny, too.

Hey aren't the Bushies stakeholders in some Bin Laden bank who's assets were friezed during the initial 9/11 investigation? I remember hearing Bush1 was a board member and that the family had millions of $ tied up there... so maybe they are Baathists, cuz ya know al Qaeda must be connected to Iraq somehow...
:sarcasm:

That act and the conspiracy to act in that manner is de facto treasonous. In this country, since 9/11 we have been ceaselessly bombarded with dire warnings of doom and gloom, visions of hordes of terrorist pouring over our unprotected borders, our coffers have been looted in staggering amounts--enough so that our grandchildren will be paying for this war, our sons and daughters are being offered up for slaughter in an illegal war based on the lies that came out of this debacle, our military has been broken, and we're told "Oh, about 50 yrs. of this should be about right (my paraphrase)." This bunch of people does this to our nation and it's not treasonous? Forget the legalities. I use this word every chance I get to talk about this process. These people KNOWINGLY compromised out nation six ways to Sunday. Do you believe that truly had more than personal,economic, or political gain to collaborate with Blair and Chalabi and who knows who else to embark on this venture? They knew that their desire to go to war would not fly with the people. They lied, cheated, forged, and stole their way to war IN SECRET. Sold a traumatized nation a bill of good. Hanging is too good for the * junta.

How many times have your heard Hannity/O'liely throw around "they're giving aid and comfort to the enemies"? Turnabout is fair play, especially in this case when *duh* outing Brewster Jennings and Associates was certainly damaging to our national security.

Do I actually think Fitz has enough for a Treason charge? (Espionage, maybe). I doubt it. But it's a great talking point for the freep-infested water coolers.

edited for spelling

And Al Franken started it on the Letterman show the other night talking about executing Libby and Rove. He didn't come out and say treason, but we all know execution is the punishment for treason.