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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:15 PM
Original message
The Indictment Ladder (speculation)
For a number of reasons, I'm fairly confident that Indictments HAVE BEEN handed out and will be announced on Friday.

As many suggest, I believe The Indicted Ones are busy trying to squirm their way out of it. I think that the only way that Rove/Libby will be able to do this is to give up Bush/Cheney. Here's why:

Mr. Fitzgerald used Novak to get to Miller/Cooper.
The appearance at first was that he was going after reporters; this may have been why Rove/Libby/et al. tried to cover up and lie.
He then used Miller/Cooper to get to Libby/Rove and uncover conflicting testimony.
Now he has a leash of Perjury and Obstruction around Rove/Libby's necks.

Would Rove/Libby execute an attack on Wilson without proper authorization? I don't believe that is so. They would have gotten approval first. In fact it is far more likely that they were told/ordered to execute the attack on Wilson/Plame by Bush/Cheney. Wilson was about to completely discredit the Administration and put a spotlight on the LIES THAT TOOK US TO WAR: The "Fixing the Facts Around the Policy" as stated in the DSM. And the information that Plame was CIA would not be given to the Administration unless requested. That information would come with the KNOWLEDGE THAT SHE WAS COVERT. In fact, I believe it was a "double-leak" in an effort to provide obfuscation in the event of an investigation... it would be very difficult with a "I got it from him, he got it from me" defense.

I believe Mr. Fitzgerald has played this investigation such that the admin WOULD MAKE THE MISTAKE OF COVER-UP. And they did. Now he has them. There will be no deals unless he gets the TRUE CRIMINALS: THOSE RESPONSIBLE: Bush/Cheney. And I think right now, it's just a matter of if Rove/Libby to 5-10 years vs. 10-15 years.

Remember Rove's Lawyer, Luskin, is a MAJOR DEM LAWYER, familiar with Mr. Fitzgerald. He warned Rove when Rove hired him (at the recommendation of Ginsberg) that "my politics are not your politics." I believe Luskin will encourage Rove to make the sacrifice of Bush for a 5 year sentence reduction. After all, that's what is in Rove's best interest.

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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting - good thinking. n/t
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bostonbabs Donating Member (465 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. great post...thanksn/t
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marylanddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Makes a lot of sense - thanks n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. What do the bin Ladens want?
Do they want Bush/Cheney in or out? What will they do if they don't get what they want?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. I like your speculation.
If the future shows that Fitzgerald was after the true criminals Bush Cheney (not saying the other's aren't, they're just small fish), then I will admire him even more. Because remember, people that high up doesn't impress him or scare him. He's just doing his job and that is to get the bad guys.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. The assumption that Libby and Rove wouldn't act without
the knowledge and approval of Bush and Cheney is really quite critical.

I am not sure from where I sit that we can be more than reasonably able to doubt that Libby and Rove acted without Cheney/Bush knowledge.

Plausible deniability is important when getting involved in conspiracies. Bush might be a dope in regards black operations, but Cheney certainly is not. I wonder if Cheney would really leave himself vulnerable.





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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I agree that is the weakest part of the theory
If it breaks the theory, then Rove/Libby are going down hard as they have nothing to bargain with (besides implicating other staffers, and I think Mr. Fitzgerald can get those without Rove/Libby now).
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. didn't know that
about Rove's lawyer. It will be interesting to see if it happens. I do think that the reason the indictments haven't been handed down yet is frantic plea bargaining on the part of Rove/Libby.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wow, could I be right? Check this out (from Rawstory)
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. You gotta read this! From Jane Hamsher..
Before Wilson published his October 13, 2002 article for the San Jose Mercury News in which he was openly critical of BushCo.'s ramp up to war, he sent it to Scowcroft and Baker for review, as well as Poppy. Catch this:
Brent called me when he received the article. He kindly asked if he could "take it over to the White House," only about two blocks from his downtown office. He said that he thought senior officials ought to read the views of somebody who actually had experience in Iraq and with Saddam's government. (my emphasis)
So Poppys best friend Scowcroft (who's already on record for publicly calling Junior a buffoon) carries Wilson's article down to the White House and swats Junior over the head with it like a dog that had peed on the rug. Acting as a stand-in for his war veteran dad, holding Wilson up as a model of patriotism and bravery while laughing at Nintendo boy for launching a foolish war from the comfort of his BarcaLounger.

Jesus tapdancing Christ. You think THAT didn't raise every hair on the back of Junior's neck?

Much more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/oedipus-tyrannus-wrecked_b_9553.html
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. WOW, just wow.
You think junior outed plame cause he was pissed at poppy?

If that's true, he IS going down for this.
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mattomjoe Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. TRUE CRIMINALS: THOSE RESPONSIBLE: Bush/Cheney
That this investigation would lead to this has been my hope for a while now. My question is, can Fitzgerald convince Rove and/or Libby that they will be in the kind of trouble that even Bush won't be able to get them out of if they don't give up everything they know???
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think they're lawyers need to convince them to take the deal
But my guess is they are playing hardball and want a get out of jail free card...
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. Agree, you write...
>Would Rove/Libby execute an attack on Wilson without proper authorization? I don't believe that is so. They would have gotten approval first. In fact it is far more likely that they were told/ordered to execute the attack on Wilson/Plame by Bush/Cheney.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. More (potential) support for this theory:
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. TOONS are getting the same idea
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